And I don't see him ever being Matt Ryan; the physical skills are too good.

If he doesn't get over the hump, he becomes a Jay Cutler type - the guy that's always just a little too confident in his arm. He'll scramble around to stay alive, take too many hits and try to fire the ball into too many tight spaces. Suddenly he becomes an injury prone turnover machine.

Ryan's a smart QB that's merely good form a 'measurables' perspective. Tannehill owns the measurables but may never be a smart QB. That's why I see his 'middle ground' as Jay Cutler.

Not being a dick, simply not knowing anybody here...but you work in some capacity in professional football?

Okay, take out the "other" in the sentence. Typo.

Ill try it when I get home.

To be fair to Tannehill, I don't see some of the red flags when it comes to personality that I see with Cutler. Cutler is an A#1 douche.

I can remember a few of kirwins mock. It went like this:

1 Smith
2 Bjorn Werner (Jags)
3
4 Joekel (Eagles)
5
6
7
8 Barkley (Buffalo)

Ill get the rest and try to record it when I get home.

He said team are scared to death of stenosis and he expects J Jones to drop like a stone because of it.

Been saying this for a couple of months.

ROFL I really didn't think your post deserved my best shot. You said Alex Smith could be Trent Green, and I don't want another Trent Green. Why settle for another Trent Green?

So you really think Trent Green was a SB quality QB? Seriously? Like I said, he is getting better with age.

No doubt, he was a pillar of the community and a great guy, but he did have a lot of faults behind center. Like when he was rushed he would overthrow the ball repeatedly.

You overstate SB caliber.

Trent Green was easily as good at his peak as Joe Flacco is now.

Peter King-journalist.

Yup never understood the trent hate on here. He was easily a top 10 qb.

You really think so? I don't, but I guess that is ok, opinions.

Do you think Trent threw as good of a deep ball? As accurate? As composed?

That being said, Flacco winning the SB this year has given a lot of second tier QBs hope, since it wasn't a Manning or Luck caliber getting the win.

Deep ball? No. I've said for quite some time that Flacco throws among the best deep balls in the league.

I think Green was far more accurate on intermediate routes though, and yeah, I definitely think he was as composed. He was a better decisionmaker and ran a far more complicated offense than I think Flacco's capable of running.

They're different, but in the end I think Green was a more productive and versatile QB than Flacco is now.

Hate is very inaccurate term, more like reality.

This team has had such god awful crap behind center for the last 7 years, that now Trent Green is a friggen HOF QB.

I gave him his due, and always have, but nothing more.

That is a well thought out post, and you make me re-think some of my position. It is just hard for me to get it out my mind seeing him overthrow balls into the ground when under pressure.

That offense was very complicated, and that is a great point. But Trent had the luxury of the best running attack this team has ever had, and among the very ever.

He also had 2 HoFers and 2 more perennial All Pros in front of him.

That was one of the best offensive lines in the history of football.

That being said, Trent had a run with the Rams in 2000 that was literally one of the best stretches of games I've ever seen out of NFL QB.

Trent Green flawlessly executed the Coryell offense under Cam Cameron, yet Flacco struggled for years in that same offense. It wasn't until Cameron was fired and replaced with Jim Caldwell that Flacco finally became the first rounder that the Ravens envisioned when they chose him in 2008.

I think that Trent was a cerebral as a QB you could find, in any era, and it's a damn shame that Rodney Harrison robbed him of what could have been an even better career.

Well it's important to separate TrINT from Trent. He got himself so far behind the 8-ball with the fanbase here after that first season that yeah, it's easy to remember those balls got on top of and hammered into the turf.

But when he was at his apex, those 4 years from 2002-2005, man he was precise. In those 4 years he averaged damn near 8 yds/attempt. And that was when only guys like Manning and Brady were putting up numbers like that. To put it into perspective, even with weapons like Boldin and Torrey Smith, Flacco's never averaged better than 7.4 YPA and on his career is averaging 7.1. That's even with the fact that he's a very good downfield passer.

Yeah, the system helped, but even the YAC yards were a result of the fact that he was so good at hitting guys in stride and frankly he just didn't miss very often.

For a guy with a sub-standard arm to be able to hit at 8 yds/attempt means that he was firing a hell of a grouping. He was putting it in the right spot almost every time.

History, if anything, has been extremely unkind to Trent Green. We don't realize how good we had it with that guy over those 4 seasons and I think that is almost exclusively because of how quickly people soured on him in 2001.

Green was never a game manager in the martyball sense of the word. As much as they ran Priest, the offense still went through Green. Too much so in some cases, where they'd outsmart themselves when a straight-ahead play would have sufficed. In any case, the guy was really good, and it's a travesty he didn't win in January here.

Without question. To me, the biggest tragedy in that whole offense was Priest getting injured by Merriman. To me, Priest was the key to that offense behind that line.

In no way did I intend to take anything away from Trent's intelligence and character.

Flawless, really?

Don't you think some of the Flacco success is due to him maturing in the NFL, after 4 years?

TrINT Green was flawless now? ROFL

Good points, again. I for one didn't sour on him 2001 though, as he was coming back from a horrible injury.

I just never really felt like he had the tools to carry the team. I felt he was "good enough" to be competitive. Once again, a recycled Qb, that was pretty darn good.

I am sick and tired of settling for that, after what seems like an eternal line of them. I want this team to go "all in" with a pick of their own and develop him. No more Alex Smiths, Trent Greens, Dave Kreigs, Bonos, Grbacs, Huards, Cassels, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

I am so sick of it, that if they marched Stanzi out there and went 0-16, it would be refreshing to me.

Yeah, absolutely. He was pretty amazing under Norv and again under Martz. He was a master of the Coryell offense and had it not been for the knee injury that plagued him for two seasons, he most likely wouldn't have been a Chief.

Actually, Flacco just completed his fifth year in NFL. But the reason I disagree is because under Cameron, he never seemed comfortable. The Ravens had done an excellent job of providing a very good offensive line, a excellent running back in Ray Rice and very good perimeter players in Boldin, Smith, Pitta and Dickson. But, he continued to struggle and put his game together until after Cameron was fired.

At that point, Caldwell simplified the offense, installed plays from his days as Peyton Manning's head coach and OC and called more long balls to Smith and Boldin. Instead of the quick timing plays, shifts and verbage, Caldwell used Flacco's best attribute, his big arm, and the Ravens tore it up in December, January and of course, February.

Very telling on just how pathetic the QB play has been in KC for the last 7 years. :(

Gimme good, good was good enough, I am tired of waiting on great!/CP

Kinda shows a few things. Maybe Flacco isn't geared for that and Cameron is an idiot.

See, that stuff doesn't bother me. If the Chiefs win and win in the playoffs, I couldn't care less how the QB was acquired.

Now, if the Chiefs need a QB and deliberately pass on highly rated guy, that's a different story. But if Matt Flynn or Nick Foles or Alex Smith won a Super Bowl as a Chiefs, I'd be thrilled.

You, my friend, would likely be on the only person happy in that scenario.

:D

I said he ran the offense flawlessly, you illiterate dumb****.

The guy was still recovering from knee surgery in 2001 and couldn't properly plant his leg. That was discussed ad nauseam around here back in the day and is certainly nothing new.

JFC.

I'll say it again.

Trent Green had a 5 or 6 game stretch with the Rams in 2000 that was one of the best I'VE EVER SEEN.

I'm gonna go find those stats.

He had like 2000 yards and 16 TD, high 60s completion percentage.

He was quite effective.

5 starts, over 65% completion, almost 8.5 ypa (!!!), 15 TD, 5 INT

He was an OK, solid QB. The best QB for the Chiefs since Montana nearly 20 seasons ago. Ill just leave it at that.

And that's where we disagree.

For 4 years, Trent Green was great. Granted, I'd love to get 10 years of that, but to just expect it and say anything less is crap is going to make you a miserable sports fan.

I'd trade this year's entire draft for 10 years like the 4 we got from Trent Green. And if you really look at what Green was doing in relation to his peers over that time, you'd be insane not to do the same.

So if that's the case, isn't poo-pooing Trent Green's performance here pretty damn ignorant?

Well for the last three years we have seen HCs marching out crap behind center, trying to eeek out a win to save their ****ing job. Not giving Stanzi a legit shot.

Yeah, I am beyond the recycled QB give a **** meter, seriously. Nobody was more shocked than I when the Chiefs didn't end up with Peyton Manning. The first time I ever got really upset with the Chiefs was the Montana trade, and it has been going on to varying degrees ever since.

I will probably take a few years off if they don't draft one this year.

Trent was a top 3 or 4 QB in the league for a few of those years. We had an elite offense, that with somewhat competent FO and coaching staff should have had a defense opposite it that had some semblance of well, a defense.

He was better over that period than Big Ben, Eli Manning and Joe Flacco have been over their careers. That's only 6 SBs between them.

But you're right, we should totally shit on that guy. If all we get from our next quarterback is another Trent Green, we've really busted.

I'm somewhat starting to question if some of you actually remember Trent playing in KC, other than 2001.

This we can agree on.

I don't think I am poo pooing his performance any more than some are taking it the other way. Time has a way of softening the undesirable things, and the sweet memories get sweeter.

I doubt anyone was much more pissed than I when Gaethers took him out, but to say he was anymore than a good QB is just not in the cards for me.

I want a great QB on this team, and don't want to see them give up more picks in any round for another recycle. Maybe that is just me. I am dug in after 43 years of futility.

I know you and I differ on this but the reason I care about how we acquire the QB is because I believe it is a factor on whether or not we can win in the first place.

The teams that are winning and winning regularly have drafted and developed their own guys.

In the 30 years or so I've been a fan, I've seen the Matt Flynn/Nick Foles/Alex Smith's come through KC. Over and over and over. I know how the story ends.

Is it completely rational or objective? No. If I were capable of looking at this in a 100% rational manner, I would have given up on this crap franchise YEARS ago.

The question is whether or not you remember CHRIS THOMAS playing in KC in 2001. :D

He knows the system, bro.

I don't think it's a stretch by any means to say that Trent Green was the second best QB this team has ever seen behind Len. And yes, that does include Montana.

If only we would have had ANY modicum of defense from 2002-2005....

He's no Dexter McCluster though.

Trent Green was a great QB in between the 20s. In the red zone, he was not.

And he sucked at improvisation.

Which is why when the OL went, he did.

I dont think Alex Smith is close to what Trent Green was.

Im not sure thats fair to say. His melon was scrambled the first game of 2006 and never was the same again.

Trent's decline started the year prior.

It wasn't obvious but he was slightly less effective when Roaf missed games that year.

He was always awful at throwing on the run, and if he had to get outside the pocket and make a play, good luck with that shit.

this. And its the reason these asshat "experts" should be taken with much grain of salt.
Posted via Mobile Device

You can't really argue that this is the weakest QB class in a long time. The only reason these QBs will go in the first is that the league is so QB-centric now.

Get it while it's HOT

http://shop.kcchiefs.com/Chris-Thoma...901866_PD.html

ROFL

http://c-product.images.dreamsretail...44-15652-Y.jpg

OK, who the **** is Jose Gumbs?

http://shop.kcchiefs.com/Kansas-City...588386_PG.html

htis, did you get my PM?

When?

Send it again.

No, you won't.

:p

Dane, finished reading that book you recommended, thanks.


Any other recs?

I have always believe that the only way to consistently win Super Bowls is through the draft. And it's not just QB's, it's stockpiling CB's, DE's, LB's, WR's, etc. Perimeter guys that make a true difference in the game.

But at this point in time, if the Chiefs can acquire a QB that is ready to lead this team to the playoffs for the next 3-4 years consistently, I don't care how he's acquired.

This teams has so many pieces in place that IF they can acquire an accurate passer and leader on offense, this team can make some noise. Maybe, just maybe, some serious noise.

So as I've stated before, if it's Foles or Smith or Flynn or G. Smith or someone else, I'm in. This team is ready.

Especially on defense.

That's just the thing. Foles is as much an unknown as any of the QBs in this draft. Flynn isn't even worth discussing. And Alex Smith's history doesn't necessarily scream "serious noise".

The 1995 team was "ready", especially on defense. This sounds EXACTLY like that. And we already know how that ended. In both 1995 AND 1997.

Foles is unknown to you, not the head coach.

This defense is as championship ready as half the playoff contenders in 2012, if not more.

This team is ready to strike. All they need the right QB to lead them.

Andy Reid knows quite a bit about Foles and Dorsey knows quite a bit about Flynn.

yep, its good that the league is no longer drafting or thinking like Carl Peterson. It's even better that the Chiefs will soon be joining them. Pioli accomplished one thing: no more Carl. And the Lord looked, and saw that it was good.
Posted via Mobile Device

Its about compromise, not previous knowledge. Im sick of compromising. All this franchise DOES is compromise. It's time to stop taking it in the ass, and start GIVING IT. No more ****ing excuses.
Posted via Mobile Device

yeah, you are probably right. :banghead:

Rinse and repeat. Pioli knew a lot about Cassel.

Sorry, just been burned to many times, I am going to live in Missouri soon so they are going to have to show me.

Foles was a third round pick, but where would he be in this draft?

Question: has there ever been a draft in which no quarterback was taken in the first round?

Foles is less of an unknown than ANY of the QB's in the draft. He's actually got a half season or so of actual NFL football to look at.

Foles is less of an unknown than Matt Flynn. Flynn's got one game to look at, and the fact that he got outplayed by a 3rd round rookie. (True, that rookie looks pretty special, but still.) I'd be bummed if we went with Flynn.

Foles is MORE of an unknown than Alex Smith; although I think with Smith you kind of have an idea of the ceiling. Foles you have an idea where the floor is, but the ceiling is to be determined. I'd be mildly disappointed if we went with Smith. This IS the same thing we've done for going on 3 decades.

IF Reid and Dorsey aren't into G. Smith and feel like the dropoff to the Barkley/Wilson/Nassib/Dysert guys is nada, I'd not be opposed to trading a pick for Foles and taking whichever of those guys at the top of the 2nd that they like as insurance. Two young QB's (one that's ready to play and has some experience in THIS offense with THIS coach, and one that's probably not quite there yet) would bode well for the future.

Sounds like you're in full "gotta get these guys a championship" desperation mode.

Yep, that's how you end up with STEVE BONO.

Foles ain't Bono.

I'm not opposed to trading a 3rd or 4th for Foles and having him COMPETE for a starting job.

We both know that's not what's going to happen. They'll hand him the keys.

There's absolutely no way to spin it otherwise - it IS Matt Cassel all over again.

He isn't Brett Favre either.

You're rationalizing again.

Except that it's not.
Foles is a 24 year old kid, who started and played well in college, who has a good arm and played pretty well on a shit team with little help as a rookie.

Cassel never played a down of college football, has a weak arm and took what had been an 18-1 team the previous season to a 10-6 record (with the scheduling gods playing the Pats against what was a horrible NFC West).

You cannot compare him to Cassel, they're nothing alike in any way, shape, form, experience level, background, physical attribute, or potential. They are literally two white guys who play QB and the similarity ends there.

The situation would be more like when GB traded a #2 for Brett Favre back in like '91 or '92 or whatever. If Reid thinks Foles is better than any of the possible draftees I'm good with it. I'd still like a high-ish pick to hedge the bet, though, and I like Nassib as a guy you could groom and hedge the bet.

I don't think Reid just hands anyone anything, it doesn't seem to be his MO. I would expect that Foles would start over any second round QB and Stanzi just based on past performance, but I don't think Reid would stick with him if there's a better player on the bench like Pioli did.

and even thats pushing it. Favre barely even played for the Falcons in 91, so Foles has alot more experience at this point in his career than Favre did.

I'm not even FOR this, really. I'd say I think trading a pick for Foles would be plan B as long as they draft a QB at the top of the 2nd to develop/compete.

I'd still prefer to draft Geno at #1.

Id like to draft Geno and still trade for Foles or another QB.

But ill trust whatever decision these guys make....at least initially.

But in another thread you not only want to trade a high draft pick but also sign a malcontent to a huge deal. How is that different?

No, he's a former 3rd round pick who played good (not great) in a 1-read spread offense, taking almost 80% of his snaps out of the shotgun.

He played flat above average ball as rookie while still taking 75% of his snaps out of the shotgun.

The ONLY reason he's even being talked about is because people are suddenly ready to just blindly trust Reid, as if the whole Scott Pioli thing never happened.

What's funny is the Chiefs have shown exactly ZERO interest in Nick Foles and the Eagles have shown exactly ZERO interest in trading him.

Percy Havin is one of the most dangerous players in the NFL. He was a legit MVP candidate before getting hurt last year.

A guy that can score each and every time he touches the ball is ABSOLUTELY different.

Mvp candidate? Youve lost your damn mind.