I don't think that will have nearly the impact that it would if the backup was also drafted 1.1. Chase Daniel is a local favorite because of his Mizzou ties, but otherwise, he's really just the typical "most popular guy in town" backup that every team has.

Anythng is possible. What did Rogers do his first year in GB?

True enough. But to the argument that KC has a particularly bad track record with DL, the answer is that the guys picking for KC this year aren't the same guys who made all those other picks.

I think they're banking on someone wanting to leapfrog Jax.
to trade down, and try to pick up a 2nd. Then take one of the 'other' QBs.


WAG on my part though.

And that's my point, and I think yours as well Pestilence, regarding 1.1 and KC taking QB there.

It's ok to let a DL taken @ 1.1 to sit and learn, rotate in now and again to learn the position in the NFL.

But a QB taken @ 1.1 sitting and learning, getting into a few games late to learn the position in the NFL?!?! The Hell you say!!!

The numbers have been posted by DaKCManAP in either this thread or another thread.....but if we drafted Geno.....all 3 of our QBs would have the cap hit of Joe Flacco.

A DL taken at 1.1 may or may not start, but he's almost certainly going to get plenty of snaps over the course of the season as a part of the rotation. We're talking about a QB at 1.1 who never sees the field. That doesn't happen in the modern NFL. (I'm not saying it can't happen, but it doesnt. And it's not the same as the DL scenario at all).

Yep. And the guys picking for KC last year aren't the same guys who made the previous round of bust picks.

To me all that stuff is stupid. Past bust results aren't indicative of future busts. Just like the whole "USC QB = Bust" mantra. BS. If a prospect's a stud I don't care what school he played for or how that school's previous QBs turned out in the NFL.

So tell me this then....

Say the Texans for some reason end up at 1.1 this year. Would it be ok for them to take Geno Smith and sit him for a year? They already have an established veteran QB with a decent salary who could realistically play for another 2-3 years. Would they need to take a DE/DT who would rotate in his 1st year? How about a RT?

The biggest need on this team is the pass rush. I would love Dion Jordan here. He's going to be a beast.

Pretty cool tidbit. I say draft your QB. Said all along I don't want all our eggs in one basket. Get a starter. A vet back up and draft your guy. I want options.

I'll ask again - Is there some law that a team, particularly the Chiefs, can't be stacked at the QB position?

If they sign this guy, and I really hope they do, then Dorsey and Reid have done nearly the impossible by making the first overall pick in the draft for a team that won 2 games the year before a near luxury draft pick. Why WOULDN'T they pick a talented quarterback that would benefit by watching the NFL game from the bench for a season?

Wow, these guys arent jacking around, what a nice get, it really gives them leeway in the draft.

And no one has found a single thing to bitch about with this guy, that may be the most amazing thing about it.

Dudes freakin huge
When he plays his teams run game spikes upward
Is considered pro bowl caliber
Versatile, plays two spots at a high level
Veteran, no learning curve
He's Samson re-incarnate, bain of philistines everywhere

KEEP DOUBTING THE WALRUS

I think he has some weight control issues.

Barring the removal of Hali from our roster, Jordan would be at most a situational player for KC in 2013.

:thumb:

Pretty sure they expanded the active roster by 1 player, and eliminated the emergency QB concept a couple years ago...

DaKCMan AP's glue-sniffing scenario:

Draft Geno @ 1.1 and sit him for a year.
Start Alex Smith who has a Pro Bowl (either #3 QB or alternate) season.
In 2014 offseason trade Alex Smith for multiple picks (including 2nd rounder) a la AJ Feely & Kevin Kolb.

Profit.

It would be OK with me. I think that if they took QB with 1.1, they'd be in for a QB controversy, but if they're willing to deal with that, it's no skin off of my back.

Thanks. I had a vague feeling that the rule had changed, but I wasn't sure. In that case, DaKCMan's concern about the wisdom of only suiting up 2 QBs is a lot more valid.

**** this QB controversy bullshit.

If we draft Geno Smith at 1.1 and Alex Smith is playing horrible by Week 10 or 11....why shouldn't he be replaced?

Wrong type of pass rush.

I'm less concerned with beefing up our 3rd down/sub package pass rush. I want a 1st and 2nd down pass rush. What makes teams like the 49ers so filthy is that you can't just pass in running downs against them and expect to get time in the pocket; Justin Smith will absolutely !@#$ you up if you try that.

Jordan's a sub package player for 2 years. His impact will be felt in nickel formations when teams go 3-wide against us and on 3rd downs.

I'd rather have someone like Floyd, Richardson or Mingo; guys that are on the field all 3 downs and can make a difference on first down both in terms of production and game-planning from offenses.

Alex Smith is 3 and 16 in games he throws the ball as much as Reid wants to.

It would be grossly irresponsible to go into the season with Alex Smith, Daniels and Stanzi when we can draft Geno.

Mark this down...if they pass on Geno at 1, that decision will ultimately get these guys fired.

On the dl the someone that can get some push up the middle. Don't care who it is.

I wouldn't mind Reid at QB if he can throw. Defenders sure as shit wouldn't be able to tackle him

I see what you did there.

Both of their combined salaries along with the projected #1 overall would still be less than most starting franchise QB's.
http://www.overthecap.com/rookiepool.php?Team=Chiefs

What are his numbers with say two fewer passes than Reid will want him to throw? Maybe he can get there and stop, and have more wins :rolleyes:

:p Just busting your caaaack

Alex Smith - $8.5 million
Chase Daniel - $3.5 million
Geno Smith - $4 million

$16 million total.

Joe Flacco = $20 million.

I don't believe that's an accurate # for Daniel's cap hit.

His base in 2013 is 750K and his signing bonus is $3 million. That only adds up to a $1.75 million cap hit there year from where I sit.

The best part is this argument that the Chiefs are the ONLY team who has to factor in three QB salaries. What about the other teams' backups? You have to account for those as well.

Ding ding ding!

Maybe Reid wants to take Geno at one, but also wants to win right away with the talent we have....a smart personnel man drafts Geno at 1.

I thought I read somewhere that his signing bonus was all in year 1....but that was more than likely wrong.

Fixed.

Thought I read that too, but here it lists his 2013 cap hit as 1.8m.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-ci.../chase-daniel/

I hadn't read that, but I had no idea that could even be done.

My understanding was that a signing bonus is spread over the life of the deal - period but that an annual workout bonus accrues when earned.

But I'm often full of shit, this may be no different.

If we trade out and don't take Geno, we better get a first next year and still have a pick in the top 10 this year.

Minimum.

Yeah - $50k workout bonus I forgot to factor in.

The $1.8 makes more sense to me, with my standard "I'm often full of shit" caveat applied.

So then it's even easier to handle his contract.

Because the cap hit for all three QBs go from $14.25 in 2013 to $17.4 in 2014. Trade or release Alex Smith and you're paying $8.4 million to both Daniel and Geno.

That's about where it should be for one franchise QB and two backups. And I would argue that it's BETTER than the high salary cap figures for a single QB. This is much more manageable, in that you can get out from any of these contracts when one guy ascends.

To me, this is just hedging our bets.

Yup, just like the offices that drafted Mario Williams and Jake Long...

So:
Alex Smith 8.5m
Chase Daniel 1.8m
Geno Smith 4m (Andrew Luck was 4.02 last year)

Team Total = 14.3m

Individual Quarterback 2013 cap hits:
Eli Manning 20.85m
Peyton Manning 20m
Drew Brees 17.4m
Phillip Rivers 17.11m
Tony Romo 16.818m
Carson Palmer 15.335m
Tom Brady 13.8m
Ben Roethlisberger 13.6m

You can amortize the signing bonus over the life of the contract, but you don't have to. You could call it a "roster bonus" which isn't amortized, IIRC.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the finances will keep us from taking Geno, so I'm not sure why we're banging this drum so hard.

You're right, there's room in the budget for Geno Smith. The question is exclusively one of asset allocation.

And if Alex Smith plays well, it's not like teams wouldn't want Geno Smith in a trade in the next couple years.

With serious questions with both Alex and Geno, having both on board would be brilliant.

Get ready to add Aaron Rodgers 80 bajillion to that list...

That's what I thought (I said workout bonus; roster bonus is the same).

A standard signing bonus, as I understand it, is amortized. However, if you want the same impact accelerated onto this year's cap, you'd call it a roster bonus or a workout bonus.

I've seen nothing to suggest that this is how the Chiefs structured it. Frankly, it'd be a little crazy to do so given the flat cap.

Not necessarily. Flacco is only a 6.8m cap hit for 2013. In 2014 it escalates to 14.8m. But in 2016 & beyond it's an insane 28m+. Can you say re-structure?

And that's where it comes back to the ultimate bottom line. They have to decide which they value more.....Geno Smith or the trade offer they receive.

They are talking about this on NFL am right now.

Jamie dukes said "this is a smart and strategic move for Andy Reid to hedge his bets" "you have to love the way Alex Smith handled the situation last year"

I turned the channel in mid conversation...but Dukes was obviously talking about the Chiefs not being done at QB.

That Flacco deal is just hideous.

I would honestly rather be in the position where we are with Alex Smith and no 2nd round pick than where the Ravens are with Joe Flacco and a looming death sentence.

Well, in a vacuum. Obviously I'd rather be coming off a SB win and have to deal with Joe Flacco in 2016 than where the Chiefs are right now, but going forward, I just cannot fathom how the Ravens will do anything but suck.

Nothing they have done so far prohibits us from drafting a QB at 1.1. Chiefs will take 5 QB's to camp, I would imagine. So they still need another. Where they get it from is the unknown. The holes they are filling thru FA are positions you typically see 2nd rd picks used on. But its all just guessing and wishing

If they don't get a huge trade down offer.....it'd be the ultimate "cover your ass" move. Alex Smith sucks? You've got Geno. Alex Smith is good? You can let Geno sit for another year or you can trade Alex Smith and get a pick?

"That's a huge reason HE'S THERE and NOT SOMEONE ELSE."

I really hope they replay the segment.

It was on the "say what?" Segment.

Exactly.

So, having seen now what Reid and Dorsey have been up to, are you more willing to grant them some deference on their decision at this point?

Where I am is simple - if they stay at 1.1 and take Luke Joeckel, I'm going to set the !@#$ing building on fire. If they take Geno or execute a solid trade down, I'll defer to their experience and trust that they'll have made a good decision.

I think that's pretty fair.

If they get a sick trade offer including a first next year, then I am sadly going to be okay with taking it.

:(

Oh I'm fine with either a trade down or Geno Smith. I have been since the Alex Smith trade.

What I don't want to see is them drafting a DE/DT or an OT at 1.1. That's horrible ****ing value.

Going forward immediately, IMO.

2012 roster departures:
Ed Reed (likely)
Ray Lewis
Dannell Ellerbe
Paul Kruger
Anquan Boldin
Bryant McKinney (likely)
Bernard Pollard
Cary Williams
Bobbie Williams

2013 additons:
Chris Canty

I mean, Ozzie Newson is a geat GM.. but JFC.

Let's go. Let's get the Geno train rolling again.

And I've also stated that if they take Geno Smith at 1.1.....they have the liberty to do whatever the **** they want to do with the rest of those draft picks.

Please god let the plan be for Geno to be KC's answer to Aaron Rodgers. I don't care if he sits for two freaking years. Play him when he's ready. And it will be so glorious.

My version.

"If the team comes out and struggles early, and they could because they only won 2 games last year, Alex is the kind of guy that can handle being moved (talking about him being benched)"

"You can't play mini ball (Alex GamemanagerSmith) and be effective. That's why Harbaugh moved to Kaepernick"

There's a lot of backup guys that catch lightening in a bottle...that's what quality backups are...even Matt Cassel did that. The team he was on had 15 first round draft choices on it. When he was a free agent, NOBODY was chomping at the bit for him and the league knows what they have with him. They recognized he is at his ceiling"

After rewinding the DVD as far back as when I changed to nfln, that's all the quotes I got.

A year or two ago, some of us wanted Schwartz hard, glad to see we're getting a second chance here.

Wow...we're really talking ourselves back in to believing that we are drafting Geno?

This is masochist behavior.

Chase Daniel just got 9 mil... they aint drafting Geno, and if they do, they are trading him.

All 3 QBs would equal less than what Flacco is getting paid. Money is not a ****ing issue.

If you're going to pull the band-aid off, might as well do it quickly.

Credit to Newsome, though - he's doing a great job of doing what has to be done. The worst thing he could do is chase guys that are getting that SB bump in FA. That would prolong the inevitable decline that comes on the heels of long winning eras.

Right now he has the glow of a SB on him and his fans. They'll be elated for 2 years. Get your house in order by not overpaying for guys, let the roster atrophy a little and then rebuild in a few seasons. Hell, by then Flacco won't have the luster he has now and you can re-structure his deal to reasonable terms.

I'm not saying they had much of a choice, but yeah, they're going to be bad soon and they'll need to go through an extensive rebuild. At least for them, their rebuild came after a championship and didn't waste the primes of half the team's best players.

**** you, Scooter.

Exactly why they can do it. A SB win will placate the fans for 1-2 seasons.

They didn't bring Chase in to be a 3rd. This is wishful thinking, fellas. I know it hurts, but let Geno go...

It is what they did after their last SB victory. Apparently it is a recipe for success....

Asamoah has played LG too. Could plug this dude in at RG and flip Asamoah back to LG

Anything to get Allen off the field.

That guy was awful from what I saw.

You do know that Chase's contract voids after 1 year if throws for more than 2000 yards or 12 TDs....correct?

And Alex Smith has only ever played a full season....twice in his career....correct?

Hopefully he looks better at OT

Hell, they could put Asamoah at C and Hudson back at LG depending on how the new staff views things

If you're happy with 1 success every 13 years in which two cornerstones of both successes are two 1st ballot HOFers and neither is a QB.

I realize the Chiefs haven't had that success in 40+ years, but I'd rather build my team differently where they can rip off 2 or 3 SBs or SB appearances in a 4-5 year span (see: NE, NYG, Indy, Pit).

Good heavens, can you imagine this place if they draft Geno and then turn around and trade him. That would be such an awesome rollercoaster ride on ChiefsPlanet that it's almost my favorite possibility just based on the people watching factor.

Have we OFFICIALLY signed this dude yet?

Daniel's deal is worked to where it can basically be a one year deal if we wanted to cut him