And it was 15% until I was about 30. I have no idea when the norm suddenly became 20% and how that happened.

So forced-tipping was applied, employees knew they were golden, and you got to pretend like it was completely removed from the equation.

Nothing to do with water service. Waiters at high-end restaurants know how to pair wines with food and can tell you the difference between a grana padano and a fontina. A very good waiter can provide direction on a menu that the guest probably doesn't know and will have items in place before you even realize you need them. High-end waiters are very different than the guy offering you pizza shooters and extreme fajitas at TGI Fridays.

You might also be interested to know that the waiter at the high-end restaurant likely shares the tip you leave with the food runner, the busboy, the bartender and the hostess.

I still think of 15% as being the standard tip for "average" service (20% = good and 10% = bad). That said, I tend to go on the 20% side most of the time as long as I don't have any specific complaints.

It has been many years since I waited tables, but I am one of the ones who made out great in the tipping structure. Worked at many places, a bunch in Westport, and then also in SF and Oakland, and just a bit in LA, and found the same to be true anywhere.

There are three kinds of tips, excellent service/good sales tips, hot/cute tips, and friend/regular tips. All three are available to just about any server regardless of gender, race, or age as long as you know your customer base and can read people well.

You cannot give the same service to all tables because different people want different things. Restaurants that train people to do the exact same thing at every table and script the experience annoy alot of potential good tippers. Business people want their needs met without much interruption, families appreciate a little slack for the few extra considerations they need, people on a date like anything that can make the meal special, girl friends often want to know a bit about you and connect a little, guys out are the same, and both appreciate good drink suggestions.

The idea that hot girls do the best seems true, but some of that is purely a confidence thing. Having confidence and carrying yourself well can go a long long way. I also never worked in a place that clothing was an advantage. Generally aimed for slightly upscale, the button down shirt and tie for both men and women type place, so low cut clothing wasn't available. If you don't want to compete with the hooters girls, don't work at hooters. Find a place where your physical attributes are best suited.

Anyplace you work, except maybe an airport or hotel, can afford any server regulars if you want to open yourself to that kind of relationship. About half the places I worked did not permit comping of any kind to customers, and regulars still come in. It is all about the bartender/server relationship and anyone can do this too.

I have seen all kinds of great servers. I was a great server. Most of us consider ourselves something like independent contractors running a smaller business inside a larger business. The bottom line is tips. To maximize the bottom line, sales must go up, efficiency must go up, and customer service must not suffer to do either of the other two.

I would definitely not prefer the no tipping restaurant solution as a server. I made more money than others because I had developed my skills.

Interesting. I always went with 15 percent and then at some point I kept hearing about 20 percent being the standard so I upped it with a grimace and a bad feeling that I was yielding to peer pressure.

But it sounds like your definition equates "acceptable" with "good", so it seems like we're in the same place but via different paths. You give 20 percent because your typical service is "good" (i.e., acceptable) and I give 20 percent because I view that as average (i.e., acceptable).

Based on the research quoted earlier in this thread, I have come to the conclusion that you were a slender white woman in your thirties with large breasts during your serving days.

Then puberty developed his skills.

No, nobody was pretending that it was completely removed from the equation. Quite the opposite. The restaurant was actually vocal to customers about the included 18%, and referred to that as justification for why they didn't accept tips. They weren't trying to pull the wool over anybody's eyes at all. Employees weren't "Golden" simply by removing tips. They still have to provide proper service, or they'll get fired. Tips aren't the sole reason for a waiter to provide proper service. That's complete fallacy.

Industry standard for good service is 15%. You waited tables so you know that. The fact that you walk into a restaurant knowing you will not tip more than 8-10% is just bullshit. You may dream of restaurants that let you get your own food and drink so you can cut out the server, but when you patronize a full service restaurant you are expected to pay for the service you receive. You obviously have the right to tip what you want, but your way of doing things is unfair to the people who work there.

You're not alone! There are more and more restaurants that provide great food with no wait staff. From what I've seen, it's a fast growing part of the market. That sounds more your speed. Or cook your own damn steak.

I always got a kick out of people stating that increase was due to inflation and was necessary for servers salaries to keep up. :shake:

They obviously didn't understand that inflation automatically increased the size of the tip.

I have 2 friends that work at Dominos here and they make less than $5/hr and make anywhere from $5-35 a 4/hr shift in gratuity/gas reimbursement. Pizza hut(NPC) cut all of their employees to $4.25/hr, whereas it was just new hires. Papa Johns pays $4.50/hr here so i'm not sure what you're talking about.

I have waited a long time for someone to accuse me of being slender! Though not even close to long enough to have been in my 30s 20 years ago. :)

I never got automatic hot tips. I am very tall, and was very athletic, so much more likely to be considered intimidating than hot. I am also an introvert, not an extrovert, so flirting for increased tips was never going to happen.

Unfortunately, that research isn't actually linked, though it was done by the same Cornell researcher. I'm going to look it up to see how the research was done. The justification by the restaurant owner writing the article that tipping doesn't lead to better service isn't supported by his quoted research.

I just read the first quoted study, out of curiosity, and I don't think the Linkery owner actually read it. It doesn't say that at all. It confirms that tipping is associated with perceived better service, and further that the incentive is increased by the incentive to increase sales. All it says is that some people increase 1% per 1 point better service rating out of 5, and some people increase 2% per 1 point better service. That it is varied does not mean that it is not an incentive.

I am curious about the discrimination argument as well and plan to read up on that. I did just as well in Oakland/ Emeryville with a clientele comprised of many more "likely bad tippers" than the other locations, like in KC. The studies seem to deal exclusively one sided. They either study the tippers or the tipped, and with extremely low sample sizes. I would like to see more information about how a study can quantify service and tip motivations in order to really assess the potential for discrimination. While I was a server, the only ones who complained about discrimination were the white men, but that may have just been they were more likely to be vocal about it.

I would also be concerned with a large scale shift to a non-tipping culture where salaries for servers start in a comparable place, but as sales and prices change with time, the salary stagnates and doesn't keep pace and it is just another minimum wage shitty job where there is no incentive for sales and personalized service.

I say that having lived in New Zealand where tipping is not required, and service is still quite good in most places. Employees are well compensated and seem pretty happy. The business environments are different though, and the social structure of flat tax and socialized medicine are very different, so I'm just not sure is correlates well.

This is an interesting time to have this discussion.

I've also wondered if it had something to do with my location. I lived in a small town growing up, and then went to St. Louis, then to Austin, then to Denver. Somewhere in that St. Louis/Austin era I started hearing the 20%, so I'm not sure if perhaps small towns tip less and I was just getting educated, or if Missourians tip less and I was just getting educated, or if the standard really changed.

But then it sounds like there's not unilateral agreement that 20% is the standards since at least two people have said 15% in this very thread. I guess it's a little less regimented than I thought.

I too came up on the 15 percent rule. If service doesn't warrant I'll go lower. If it goes above and beyond so do I. I've given 50 percent tips.

I tell you what clown I would be more than happy to substantiate mine with a claim from a franchisee in this area. Can you do that. Didn't think so.

I don't cook, ever. Next time I go to a nice restaurant, I should ask if I can decline a server. Ask them if I can pick up my shit from the window and fill up my drink on my own. Then just watch their bewildered look

Shit, for a short time in the 80s there was actually a Playboy Club at a hotel here in Omaha. I worked there for a few days as a "service assistant" and it was the biggest crock of shit ever. The Bunnies (waitresses) took the food order and got the drinks for the table, and the SA did EVERY ****ING THING ELSE. Then at the end of the night the Bunnies were suppose to give us a percentage of their tips, can't remember what it was but they basically gave each of us a couple bucks and some would flat-out stiff us. It was pretty much the worst job I ever had. I hated that goddamn place.

well good thing for bug, is he has loved every job since.

Did they let you look at their breasts in lieu of your tip share?

Well played

You're such a contrarian. Unique yet brave and hilarious.

A dynamic that existed before.

After dealing with those dumb bitches for 6 hours, the only thing I wanted to see at the end of the night was my fist punching their faces.

Yea, that is not an optimal situation.

Did the word "Still" confuse you a bit there?

It is just funny hearing proponents of the no tipping thing remind us all the ways it is the same. I mean...before they go out of business that is.

Sure, I have 2 friends that are area managers for Pizza hut and you're claiming they pay minimum wage or more? The only company I know that does that is Sarpinos and they don't pay their drivers a penny for gas/car reimbursement. You claim that Dominos is the only pizza place that pays their drivers less than minimum wage?

I've got a better idea. It involves murder-suicide with you and your family. Sound fun?

Why not?

Stupid? Lazy?

Dude, he works in the insurance industry being shit on by everyone he comes into contact with, and lucky if he makes 40k a year. Let him act all high and mighty. This is the only place he gets the chance.

LMAO So you talk about their lack of skills, but you can't fry an egg? At least you can assess what they're worth...