we have others willing to give him away for a 3rd round pick.

Just saying in a hypothetical situation that people would. You weren't the only one..........

All I was doing was making a post about the range of emotions......

And yes, I would. The chances of a 3rd rounder we would get with the pick making an impact are higher than bray, an udfa, making one at this point. After a whole season of work and in the system, I wouldn't do it.

But right now? Yeah, wouldn't think twice about it.

And since when did trading an udfa for a 3rd round pick be considered giving him away?

I don't particularly care what other people say. I'm only responsible for the words I vomit. And I know I've never said that everything starts and ends with QB. I've also never said anything about someone not being a franchise QB without starting from day 1.

What I will say is the following:

I believe quarterback is the most important position in all of sports
I believe the easiest (but not easy...) way to acquire a franchise quarterback is to draft one
I believe you have a better chance of doing that in the first round than later in the draft
I believe it sometimes requires both risk and cost to acquire said franchise player
I believe that there are inherent limitations to any veteran quarterback you can acquire from other teams, because teams do not let franchise players go
I also believe that there is the occasional lightning in a bottle situation, like Drew Brees or Trent Green, and we have to hope that Alex Smith is the next great story (and that UDFA Tyler Bray is as well)

I also believe there's a real possibility that, in the long run, we'll be happier with Bray than with Smith. Because regardless of whatever absurdity made him drop all the way out of the draft, be it maturity or intelligence or whatever, he has the kind of *talent* that usually costs a team at least a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

I've liked Bray as a prospect much better than Smith from the get go. Bray has virtually an unlimited upside. It's up to him and the coaches to realize his potential.

The most amazing part about all of this is that he's only 21 years old. 21! The guy has shown flashes in preaseason so there's no reason to believe that he won't be at least a serviceable backup for a decade at minimum.

All he has to do is stay focused and grounded. If he can do that, the sky's the limit.

Bray needs ALOT of mechanical work before he can be anointed one thing or another. He's in a great spot to develop though.

This is a potential FRANCHISE QB. You don't trade those away unless you already have a young Aaron Rodgers that's already a badass and is gonna be your guy for a long time. We don't and never have had that. Keep him, develop him, see what he's got. We may have finally got something for once. Anyone that even thinks of trading this guy away is reeruned. If he fails, so what? We got him for FREE. Even if we didn't get him for free, he's showing potential. Don't trade a possible franchise QB away.

Who's "anointing" him?

Tony Romo was exactly the same. If Parcells had started him in rookie season, he would have bounced out of the league.

Bray needs two years minimum before even stepping foot onto the field in a regular season game.

And "alot" isn't a word.

Sorry, forgot a space. It's hard to type with one hand on an iPad.

Look around. He'll, I got attacked last night when I answered spSaul saying that right now, if someone offered a 3rd rounder for bray, I'd do it.

So we got him for free, but trading that for a third round pick is crazy talk?

I'm not advocating trade him. I'm saying no matter who it is, if someone offers me a 3rd round pick for an udfa in the same offseason he was signed, before he even plays a snap, I'd do it

I was talking about Alex Smith. I still would have drafted Geno ahead of Bray.

As for Bray, we've seen more from him this preseason than we've seen from any other young Chiefs QB I can think of. It's easy to see why Stanzi didn't touch the field. Bray has more arm talent than any QB we've seen here, including starters, and I'd say it's by a fairly wide margin (Grbac of all people is probably the closest, it's too bad we couldn't meld trent green's head on that guy's shoulders).

Like someone brought up recently, if we are gonna be elite or bust, why would you rather have geno?

His ceiling isn't as high as bray, floor is much higher though. But again, if its elite or bust, who cares about floor?

Bray signed with arguably the best possible team for QB development. Despite his better accuracy and arm strength than Chief fans are accustomed to, he's NOT NFL ready at this time. He needs to learn the playbook, improve his footwork, adjust to NFL speed, learn to read defenses, and most importantly mature as a player. For the first time in a LONG time, I feel this organization has the guy with legitimate potential to be a future franchise caliber QB.

This is a POSSIBLE FRANCHISE QB. And either way, if a player is showing potential, no matter if he's an UDFA or not, you don't just trade him because it's a high draft pick someone is willing to trade for. The guy you have (Bray) is already showing you something, while that future pick you acquired is an unknown. Just like a crap player can be taken in the high rounds, an UDFA can also be a great player. Just because it's a draft pick doesn't mean that player is gonna be better or offer you more than the guy you got off the street. A player showing you something is a player.

I don't know why anyone would think in terms of elite or bust. I certainly don't.

Total tangent, but NDSU might be about to beat Kansas State. This is insane.

I don't think (I hope not anyway) that anyone is saying he starts right away. It took Aaron Rodgers three years. And it didn't matter if he was an UDFA, 1st round pick, found on a street in China. They kept him because of potential and his ceiling was super high.

We've been looking for a QB for eternity. If we had taken Bray with a third found pick we'd still love the pick. I see no reason to trade him for a third. I dont want to see whats behind door 2 when I like whats behind door 1.

If we had Aaron Rodgers and not Alex Smith, you consider trading Bray. We need to think in terms of coaching up Bray so he can take over in 3-4 years, not what we can get for him right now. We aren't in a position to trade away potential like that. We are in a position to groom it. And we should.

Based on what you've seen you dont thonk Bray wouldnt have been worthy of a 3rd round pick if they drafted today? He's a guy you can mold at the most important position. I think you are way off base here.

Holy shit. NDSU TD with under 30 to go. LMAO

I agree, I'm all for that.

But the question was would you take a 3rd rounder for Bray, right now.

Great minds. Love you.

And Bill Snyder just pooped in his depends.

Of course not. I explained why.

If he went to a school with ANY coaching at all, AND I MEAN ANY COACHING, he is a first rounder.

Udfa to first rounder? Because of the coach?

We'll wait and see how he does in training camp coming up and the preseason games yesteryear.

Even with the chances of an udfa becoming anything so low?

Yes. He was so highly touted out of High School, and he was recruited by Lane Kiffin, who then bailed on him. And Dooley didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

His college coaching was pretty much non existent. Its amazing that he had two guys off his team drafted in the first 34 players if you think about it.

Here is his recruiting profile from College.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/footbal...ler-Bray-94999

Wouldn't take a 3rd rounder basically for free, yet are totally enraged by giving up an all important 3rd round pick for Alex smith?

So how did those guys get to be drafted there? Coaches not coach them?

You don't trade away something you can't replace. We don't have another developmental quarterback. And we aren't going to find one out there that has his kind of passing tools. It wouldn't be a smart move. If we had a glut at the position, then maybe. We don't....

(Down the road he also has the potential to be worth much, much more than a 3rd, but that's another discussion.)

Try two 2nd round picks.

So his kind of passing tools are so irreplaceable, that he went undrafted?

If his tools are that great, what the hell did this kid do in the interview process to go undrafted?

"Maturity questions".

maturity questions, leadership questions, coachability.

Again, if its 2 seconds (talked with boss about this the other day) that means we went 8-8 or better. In Andy Reid offenses we've seen that there is no hiding behind a running game and defense.

He'll, he threw it 24 times in a half against the steelers in a preseason games.

Thusly, if we win 8 games, it's going to be because of smith, not in spite of him. Why is that a bad thing?

So again, how bad are these questions when gms that take chances on drug addicts and murderers won't throw a 7th at the guy?

I don't have a problem with it, I just think it was too much value.

And I don't think they'll be winning "because of him". They just won't be losing because of him, the way they did last year with Cassel and Quinn. He's a better game manager. But he hasn't been the kind of player who can carry a team.

I can't answer that question. I'm not in anybody's war room...

(Personally I think the league went full reerun with the QB position in general in this year's draft. Smith, Barkley and Bray all falling the way they did was just crazy to me. EJ Manuel going in the first? Glennon, Nassib, Wilson, Jones, Sorensen, Dysert, Daniels and Renfree all going ahead of Bray? Insane.)

Nassib right before the draft was being touted to be drafted at 8 BY THE BILLS. His drop was phenomenal.

People are starved for a QB. We stumble upon one that has loads of potential with the right coaches (finally) in place to get the most out of him who may or may not work out. But at least that option is there to give it a shot. So let's trade him.

There's no way we "Peeholi" Tyler Bray. No way.

Sorry but I don't agree.

If Reid has him throw it 600 times and we win 8 or more games, I don't see how you can say he didn't have a direct hand in winning and carrying the team.

Could he honestly be in a better situation? Zero pressure, great staff to learn from.....

It IS ideal. It's the best situation any developmental QB(and they all were)could possibly land in.

Again, I'm not saying trade him. Not advocating that at all. I like bray a lot.

I'm saying if someone presents a 3rd rounder for an udfa before a snap is played, I'd do it.

Yes, I realize bray is a special kind of udfa so it's a unique situation,

Now, that I can agree with. If before a snap entails before preseason, then of course you would have. But there is no way now they would. Already too much time invested in him. Releasing Stanzi on first cuts, was what stood out to me how much they liked him. No need to do that unless they really wanted to give Bray work.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sourc...78009407798194

It doesn't matter if he's a 1st rounder, 3rd, 5th, UDFA etc., bottomline is he's showing he can play and has potential. You don't trade that away for anything, no matter the position.

Jesus, if Reid and crew can sharpen him up, we will have a Hanzo sword on this ****ing team.

Hanzo.

Hes gonna make you forget you ever liked that Smith dude......

Oh, I'm sure Rex can accomplish that post-haste.

"Hanzo" Bray.

I like it.

one was the 1st pick of the 2nd round

a gnat's ass hair from being a 1st and conditional 2nd/3rd


1st and 3rd is what you get for a negotiated franchise tag trade


yes, we gave the 49ers a franchise tag-like trade amount for Alex Smith, a guy that wasn't tagged. :banghead:

I really believe this is a golden opportunity for Bray and he knows it. He picked the perfect coaching staff to learn from and the perfect city that is eager to embrace him. If he succeeds early on and he handles it with grace then he could own this town. He has the gunslinger attitude and arm to back it up with, that this city has craved for decades. Alex Smith is the perfect QB for him to watch because he is highly disciplined with great work habits. Bray needs to learn those things from Alex.

I can not argue this at all. If Alex does NOTHING in this town but be a great teacher and mentor for Bray, it was worth it.

The only way it can be viewed as too much is if it's a failure.

If Smith wins playoff games, it's totally worth it.

I wouldn't have given up 2 -2nds for Smith. I felt like it was too much. However, after a day of sulking I realized I loved the GM and coaching hires and would defer to them. We have a stop gap QB for 2-2nds. We have an UDFA to develop that looks more promising at the moment than the player most wanted to spend the 1.1 on. So in the end you spend 2-2nds to get your immediate and long term solution. Not how we'd draw it up, but I'll ****ing take. Be competitive now while providing hope for the future. Seems like the franchise is on the rise for the first time in a long time

I get a kick out of people saying that line. So stupid.

LIKE YOU GOT ANY ****ING CHOICE in the matter. You damn right you will defer just like everyone else that is not the GM of the KC Chiefs.

I think he meant 'put trust in'.

It's the price of doing business. It's what any team is gonna give up for a competent, starting, not washed up QB. The teams that traded later round picks for has-beens, or never was, got what they paid for, and find themselves, still in dire QB situations.

Yep. And it's not like the Chiefs didn't have competition here. There were other teams involved. I'm sure they'd have preferred to only give up a 3rd.

I hated giving up 2 2nds, but I can't control it. I'm dealing with it.

No way! If Alex Smith wins 10 SBs, it's still too much./Milk

:)

Except that it wasn't a first and a third. 2.1 is not 1, no matter how many times some people insist that it is.

So you never trade anyone?

Percy harvin can't play or has no potential?

Of course.

There seems to already be a shit ton of backpedaling on Geno Smith by the diehards already.

I don't know why people can't understand this....

FYP

Some of you people Just. Don't. Get. It.

Two seconds are nothing. Zilch. Zippo. They are unproven rookies that may or may not pan out. I'll take a proven NFL caliber QB in his prime over two second round potentials any day of the week.

And Alex Smith is not Matt Cassel. He is a guy that is a league leader in QB rating, passing efficiency, YPA, accuracy, etc. He is a guy who should have been a two time starting Super Bowl QB if not for a couple of special teams fumbles and a minor injury that led to a coaching decision.

This is a QB who our new coach, who has taken (imo lesser talented teams) to the NFC championship game multiple times, thinks is the best fit for his system and has attempted to get said QB numerous times, even prior to his arrival in KC. (And I can most assuredly tell you that this coach has done a lot more with a lot less than Alex Smith.)

If you think that Alex Smith is a "stop gap," you have absolutely zero knowledge of football. If you think he's a Cassel v.2, you have absolutely zero knowledge of football. If you think Bray is even remotely ready to play in the NFL, you have zero knowledge of football.

Alex Smith is a five year minimum, eight year maximum level starter from this point forward. If he's able to perform at even 80% of the level that he did in 2011 and 2012, the trade was an complete steal for the Chiefs.

Who in the hell do you think you are going to get in the second round that is going to be a bigger contributor to this team than a starting five to eight year NFL QB? Let me tell you - nobody.

And I was definitely in the "draft Geno" camp. Shit, I was starting the bonfire and handing out the smores nearly every single night over the past year plus.

But it didn't happen and it's time to move on and look at the complete picture objectively. And, objectively, Alex Smith was, hands down, the best QB that the Chiefs could have landed in either free agency or in the draft. That is, in and of itself, worth a second round pick. If he gets the Chiefs into the playoffs and actually wins a game, it's a complete steal. Two frickin' second rounders. For a starting QB? Pfffftt.

If Alex Smith was a true legit franchise quarterback, he would have commanded a first round pick and we would have been happy to give it.

Maybe Tyler can take the extra year of down time and get that fooked up tattoo on his back fixed. I heard he spelled his name wrong anyways.

You guys are more desperate for a QB than GoChiefs at the Houston "My Little Pony" Gay Bar at closing time.

Then consider John Dorsey and Andy Reid ****ing magicians, because that's what they got and only gave up a couple of seconds, which, if the Chiefs perform to the level which they are capable of, should be late mid-round picks.

Like I said, a freaking steal and some of you people just bitch and moan and whine about the trade like we gave away all of your first borns.

The best QB available in either the draft or free agency and we gave up two mid to late round seconds for that? We should be cleaning Dorsey's underwear with our tongues in gratitude for the gift he has given this franchise.

K

Wipe the Utah Ute jizz off your face. Alex Smith was not worth jack shit on the open market and we took it up the ass in that trade.

What do you want to bet that in four years/seasons Smith has a better cumulative performance than the two draft picks we gave up?

And it has nothing to do with Utah Slick. It's about getting the best possible QB for the team and system. We did that.

I'm sorry if you are all ****ing butthurt about this team getting the best possible QB in either the draft or free agency this off-season. I understand that some of you ****ing pessimistic malcontents can't be happy unless we draft guys like Andrew Luck and Jadeveon Clowney every single year, thus you constantly live a downtrodden, unfulfilled life, but I'd rather look at this objectively versus whatever ****ing fantasy world you wake up to every morning as a delusional, misguided Chiefs fan.

No.

LMAOLMAOLMAO Yeah! No.

Look at the teams that needed a QB. All of them were picking in the top 10. They weren't going to get a first. Also, SF had so many draft picks to begin with that they needed to make some cap room. That isn't a realistic post imo.

Your whole post was a really good one.

because changing the name doesn't change the value

You can call it whatever you want, but we gave the 34th pick of the draft + a 2nd/3rd round condition pick for a guy sitting on the bench.

If Alex Smith is anything other than a true franchise level QB then we got bent over the trade desk.

Then that dumbass Dorsey traded a corner back for a fullback.

Who the **** trades a high value position like corner back for a position that has almost been phased out of the NFL completely? I don't care if that corner back is the dime back, it's still worth more than a fullback.

WHOA WHOA WHOA.......

Hmmmm, you used to destroy me for this view mister.

Glad you came around......

Alex, place holder, wont make mistakes, will groom the qbotf while helping the Chiefs win now, blah blah blah?

Ring a bell mister.....

Not great, average player, great teacher will prolly make a great coach?

lol, how far we have come sweet daddy D