Originally Posted by Kaepernick (Post 9930687)

At least Rich Gannon understands the importance of superior QB development.


The way former NFL quarterback and most valuable player Rich Gannon sees it, the development of quarterbacks in the league is seriously lacking. Says Gannon:

I don't think we're doing a good enough job developing the quarterback position. Some teams do a much better job, with the Green Bay Packers being one of the best.

There are situations in the league where the quarterback is struggling, and you say, "Who's coaching him?" It's, "Well, it's the guy who was the receivers coach two years ago, but we elevated him to the quarterback coach." Well, did he ever play the position? No. Did he ever coach the position? No. And that's part of the problem.

I remember when I played in Kansas City in the off-season we had eight-page quarterback tests. First page would be an essay; second page: multiple choice; third page: fill in the blank; fourth, fifth, sixth pages would be protections, where you had to draw up a protection versus eight different fronts. Then there would be short-answer questions. Honestly, it was about a 45-minute test. It was unbelievable.

There was some peer pressure to get a good score, because there were other quarterbacks in that room, and you didn't want to be the one to miss five or six questions on that test. Second, it allowed the coach to know who knew what and who didn't know what. What were your areas of strength, and what were the areas where you needed more work?

Packers Coach Mike McCarthy coached the quarterbacks in Kansas City at the time, and he took those tests to another level.

The first question on one test: Describe in 250 words or less our version of the West Coast offense and the Kansas City Chiefs' philosophy as it relates to playing the quarterback position. That was the question.

Another of the questions was "Describe 24 and 25 Protection — solid seven-man protection — and draw it up against these eight different fronts."

I can go into some teams right now and I can ask the quarterback, "Tell me everything you know about protection." And you'd be blown away at the guys' responses, what they don't know. You'd be just stunned.

You'd think you could ask about everything they know about protections and the guy would say, "OK, let's talk about five-man protections, then six-man protections, then seven-man protections, eight-man protections. Let's talk about slide protections. Let's talk about quarterback movement, the boots, the nakeds, the keys. Let's talk about the quick reads."

But I go in and ask some quarterbacks, "Who makes the calls at the line of scrimmage?" and it's like, "Oh, the center does that." I'm thinking, the center? He's in a three-point stance and he's got some nose tackle in front of him. He's bent over and can't even see the safeties.


http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan...annon-20120129

Originally Posted by Eureka (Post 9930694)

Rich won 5 games straight w the chiefs and looked good doing it!

Are the chiefs ever going to develop their own QB? Heck the Raiders are trying w pryor atleast. Here's to another year of retreads at QB for the chiefs.

Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 9930546)

Who gives a shit what the trend is.

When Mobile QBs start WINNING SBs over pocket passers
You let me know.

Originally Posted by Kaepernick (Post 9930739)

Aaron Rodgers had 64 rushing attempts in 2010 when he won the super bowl.

For some perspective, Colin Kaepernick had 63 rushing attempts last year.

So mobile QBs like Rodgers are winning super bowls over pocket passers. That or Kaepernick is a "pocket passer".

Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 9930674)

I think YOU are showing your knowlege.

The pistol is more than just a formation. It is a scheme run out of that formation.
Its the pistol OFFENSE.
And that offense exposes the QB more than any other.
Tell me I'm wrong.
And BTW. We ran the pistol long before Harbaugh or Kaep even thought about San Fran

Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 9930755)

Rodgers started 16 games and had 475 attempts.

Kaep? 218 attempts.

Fail......again. youre good at this.

Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 9930755)

Kaep? 218 attempts.

Originally Posted by cdcox (Post 9930475)

Geez how bad is it that the Alex Smith supporters are confident that he will be able to rip off 200 yards per game.

Originally Posted by Kaepernick (Post 9930770)

You are wrong. Pistol is just a formation, like the shotgun formation.


"The Pistol formation is a hybrid formation that utilizes strengths from both the Shotgun and single back (ace) formations.

"The "Pistol" formation was devised by Chris Ault at the University of Nevada and made its debut in the 2004 Wolf Pack football season. Ault was eager to find a way to run the football despite playing in the WAC conference (notorious for its passing offense). Ault wanted to utilize basic zone blocking techniques but wanted to get the ball to his running backs quicker with the running back accelerating towards the LOS.

"Ault realized that by placing the QB in the backfield the time needed for the quarterback to get to the RB was reduced. He did not, however, want to utilize a traditional shotgun look in which both the QB and RB were positioned 7 yards in the backfield because such a formation caused the play to develop slowly.

"The Coach also wanted his back running downhill when taking the snap and consequently positioned the QB directly in front of the back (QB 4 yards behind the LOS, RB 3 yards behind the quarterback). The result was the "Pistol" formation, shown below in a 4-wide spread formation that is very similar to a typical ace formation.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/32...ide_medium.jpg


http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/20...rt-i-evolution

Originally Posted by 9er guy (Post 9930701)

Thigpen?

Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 9930573)

I would say slightly above.

Did you watch the Steelers game?

Originally Posted by 9er guy (Post 9930583)

Steve Young won a Super Bowl, but I digress.

I think the historical argument is a tricky one in this situation because this the first group of QB's, that I can remember at least, that have been able to run and throw really well. I think before (With the exception of Young, and maaaaaybe McNabb) it was either or.

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate (Post 9930992)

Wait a minute; is someone here trying to sell Smith as a better QB than Kaep? Am I reading this right?

Again:

Pipe=Down.

"We admitted we were powerless over our QB dumbassery, and that our lives had become unmanageable".

Thx!

Originally Posted by Sorter (Post 9930801)

This is accurate.

Additionally, there's a thread started by Direckshun that should provide a bit more in-depth knowledge to to the alignment and why it is successful.

Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 9930994)

Where the hell did you pull that from?
No one here said anything close to that.

Originally Posted by 9er guy (Post 9930583)

Steve Young won a Super Bowl, but I digress.

I think the historical argument is a tricky one in this situation because this the first group of QB's, that I can remember at least, that have been able to run and throw really well. I think before (With the exception of Young, and maaaaaybe McNabb) it was either or.

Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 9930121)

My view is that Andy Reid has no use for "game manager" QBs. What skills did Rich Gannon have that Alex Smith does not? Rich Gannon passed for about 4500 yards one year a Reid-like offense. Why can't Alex Smith do the same? Not saying he will, but help me understand why it's not going to happen.

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 9930211)

well because Gannon had a set of balls, but Alex Smith, not so much.

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 9931020)

Cunningham?
Posted via Mobile Device

Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 9931001)

So how come the 9ers and the Skins run a ton of the same pays catered to mobile QBs out of that formation?

Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 9930121)

What skills did Rich Gannon have that Alex Smith does not? Rich Gannon passed for about 4500 yards one year a Reid-like offense. Why can't Alex Smith do the same? Not saying he will, but help me understand why it's not going to happen.

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink (Post 9931239)

Gannon has an "F You" gritty attitude to win at all costs. Gannon "HATES TO LOSE". I don't get this impression/feeling from Smith or let's just say I haven't seen this type of intensity from Smith YET !

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink (Post 9931239)

Gannon has an "F You" gritty attitude to win at all costs. Gannon "HATES TO LOSE". I don't get this impression/feeling from Smith or let's just say I haven't seen this type of intensity from Smith YET !

Originally Posted by quittripping (Post 9931344)

He said, "Stick it" to the doubters (ie whiners) ROFL

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate (Post 9931363)

Yeah, good luck with that, Axl.

Originally Posted by Mavericks Ace (Post 9931377)

Just need him not to lose games.

Although, clearly, Andy is going to have him chucking it all over.

it wont take long to figure out if Alex can play or not.......


I will say this. If you are in a suicide pick em league. DONT PICK THE CHIEFS WEEK ONE.

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate (Post 9931391)

If we lose against Jacksonville, I can pretty much count on owning Beach Tribe's pretty little ass.

Originally Posted by 9er guy (Post 9931214)

Because they can.

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate (Post 9931391)

If we lose against Jacksonville, I can pretty much count on owning Beach Tribe's pretty little ass.

Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 9931471)

Your post makes Zero sense as usual since QBs have been routinely throwing for more yards in losses from trying to regain the lead.
W/L has no bearing on passing yards, but again, this you we are talking about.

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate (Post 9931478)

Mmm...Axl forcing throws. I'm getting hard.

Originally Posted by theelusiveeightrop (Post 9931645)

Constant erection here.

Originally Posted by keg in kc (Post 9931934)

Gannon's one MVP year was an aberration. He was just a guy, for all the legend status he gets in KC. But I'd probably be happy with regular Gannon production, a la around 3800 yards, 25-30 TD against 10-12 picks, 60-65%.

(career numbers for Smith...)

Originally Posted by Tainted (Post 9932120)

At least the 49'rs where smart enough to stick with Kaepenick so that must mean Smith = Grback, Kaepenick = Gannon.

Originally Posted by Tainted (Post 9932120)

At least the 49'rs where smart enough to stick with Kaepenick so that must mean Smith = Grback, Kaepenick = Gannon.

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate (Post 9932132)

I like this.

Originally Posted by keg in kc (Post 9931934)

Gannon's one MVP year was an aberration. He was just a guy, for all the legend status he gets in KC. But I'd probably be happy with regular Gannon production, a la around 3800 yards, 25-30 TD against 10-12 picks, 60-65%.

(career numbers for Smith...)

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink (Post 9932190)

ROFLROFLROFL Probably ??????? Dude both you and I and all of KC would take those numbers these last 5yrs !! I dig your dry humor !!!

Originally Posted by keg in kc (Post 9932198)

If those kind of mediocre numbers are all we get for two 2nd rounders spent on a guy hand-picked to run Andy Reid's offense, then it wasn't worth it.

I realize the QB situation has been woeful here for a long time. But we should expect more.

Originally Posted by keg in kc (Post 9932198)

But we should expect more.

Originally Posted by Tainted (Post 9932099)

Had the Chiefs stayed with Gannon we wouldn't have been one and done with Grback in the playoffs, what a load of crap!

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink (Post 9932439)

Damn right we should but it just goes to show you how our fan expectations and standards(collectively speaking) for our QB have lowered.

Originally Posted by keg in kc (Post 9932669)

We need to raise the bar. For this to be a successful trade, Alex Smith's name needs to be spoken in the same breath as the top QBs in the league. Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning.

I list the last two specifically because they went to new cities and posted huge numbers immediately.

Brees in 2006: 4418 yards, 64.3%, 26 TD, 11 INT. They win 10 games. Also win a postseason game. And he's kept on playing like that for 6 more years. That's what we need from Alex Smith, now and later.

Manning last year: 4659 yards, 68.6%, 38 TD, 11 INT. They win 13 games. Lose in double OT to the eventual superbowl champion.

None of this "I don't care as long as the team wins" rationalizing bullshit. The guy needs to be directly responsible for winning games, not just along for the ride. Andy Reid is an offensive/QB genious. Everybody says it. Alex Smith is his chosen guy. He's hard working, he's accurate, he's smart, we've heard it all, all summer long. Now it's time to see it on the field. He needs to be our 4500 yard, 30 TD guy for the next 5 years. That's what you give up two seconds for. Rich Gannon 2002, to get back to the header. Trent Green 2004. Drew Brees 2006. That's the kind of quarterback Alex Smith needs to be. If he farts along for 3500 yards and 20 TDs, then it's a waste of time, regardless of the what the record ends up being (and let's face it, if he's posting numbers like that, the record probably ain't gonna be all that good anyway...)

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 9930483)

He passed for 3,144 in 2011.

He was on pace for 2,800 approximately in 2012.

Reid's offense is more pass oriented and he's got better weapons in Bowe, Charles and McCluster - guys who should thrive in Reid's offense in terms of YAC. As well, Reid's Eagle teams were constantly in the top 10 in passing yards nearly every single year he was coach.

I think 3,600 to 4,000 isn't out of the realm of possibility.

In addition, when you factor in the use of Bowe and the FB/TE for Reid's offense, I think you'll see a lot of red zone pass TD's over designed running plays.

24 to 28 TD's from Smith's arm should be expected.

Originally Posted by Jakemall (Post 9932753)

So you're saying Alex needs to be on par with Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning. Otherwise, trading for 2 2nds was a failed trade?

Do you really think you could get any one of those players for 2 2nds? Do you think you could get any of them for 2 1sts? Do you remember how many picks the Giants gave up to get Eli just because he had the same bloodline as Peyton?

Originally Posted by Coogs (Post 9931037)

I'm going to go back to the Steelers game again. It looked as if a few lessons were learned against the 49ers, and our blocking was better, receiving personal was better for our system... but didn't have McCluster, and Charles was on the sideline.

Yet we still threw it 24 times, completed 17 of them for 71%. 158 yards, 1 TD, and 0 INT's.

There was nothing there that indicated to me that we couldn't have come out the 2nd half and duplicated those numbers.

I'm not buying that Smith has a ceiling on how many attempts he can throw in a game, and his performance will begin to suffer. Not before the games start for real next week anyway.

I referenced this earlier this off-season. The Chiefs/Bronco's Monday Night game where Montana threw the TD to win it at the gun.

The game against the Steelers last week would have been very similar to the game plan that night in Denver with Montana had it continued for a full game instead of just the first half.

Originally Posted by Jakemall (Post 9932753)

So you're saying Alex needs to be on par with Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning. Otherwise, trading for 2 2nds was a failed trade?

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate (Post 9933015)

Stop-gap.

Andy Reid will get a mixed plate to the hall of fame before Axl.

Originally Posted by quittripping (Post 9933022)

NEXT 10 YEARS

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate (Post 9933040)

Lay off the glue, son.

Originally Posted by quittripping (Post 9933054)

Smoke more crack, maybe you will whine less ROFL

Originally Posted by KCSLC2008 (Post 9932778)

Some people act like Smith can throw adequately for throws 1-29 and on passes 30+ he suddenly started throwing INTs and incompletions. Reality was that since he was in run-first offenses, he'd often only throw 30+ times in games where he was playing catchup. The catchup parts were in garbage time where the defense was in prevent, but it didn't overcome the bad start - getting few shots make it harder to get it done.

Reid will game-plan for a lot of throws and these throws will be in the same difficulty level as Smith has done well in. Defenses know this, so there's some problems, but Smith will likely have some success and be able to throw a lot more than he did in Harbaugh's run-first offense (which he ran more than he passed even with Andrew Freakin' Luck).

Originally Posted by Alex Smiff (Post 9933216)

So, Alex Smith's lack of deep ball passing was due to the 9ers offense and not his own limitations? I've heard it all here.

Smith fanboys make me sick.

Just hope the Chiefs D is spectacular this year. If not, and Smith will have to play catch up. Good luck!

Originally Posted by Mavericks Ace (Post 9933226)

Then why even come here? Alex haters have no reason to be here.

You are just a bunch of useless trolls.

Originally Posted by Alex Smiff (Post 9933269)

It's not that serious. Settle down, sport.

Originally Posted by Alex Smiff (Post 9933216)

So, Alex Smith's lack of deep ball passing was due to the 9ers offense and not his own limitations? I've heard it all here.

Smith fanboys make me sick.

Just hope the Chiefs D is spectacular this year. If not, and Smith will have to play catch up. Good luck!

Originally Posted by Mavericks Ace (Post 9933226)

Then why even come here? Alex haters have no reason to be here.

You are just a bunch of useless trolls.

Originally Posted by Tainted (Post 9932120)

At least the 49'rs where smart enough to stick with Kaepenick so that must mean Smith = Grback, Kaepenick = Gannon.

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate (Post 9932132)

I like this.

Originally Posted by quittripping (Post 9933433)

9ers WR crop sucks and STILL SUCKS. ROFL ROFL ROFL

That's all you need to know. ROFL

Originally Posted by quittripping (Post 9933501)

Here is some useful info for the whiners to "Stick It" some more ROFL ROFL ROFL

Have fun whiners ROFL:

arrowheadpride.com/2013/9/1/4684932/alex-smith-and-the-run-game-alex-smith-and-the-defense-alex-smith-in

Originally Posted by Mavericks Ace (Post 9933314)

Im not the one saying ALEX SMITH FAN BOYS MAKE ME SICK.

So, uh, take your own advice okay?

Originally Posted by quittripping (Post 9933443)

Cause they have nothing better to do with their pathetic lives... ROFL

It's not hard to understand, especially when Alex Smith has ALREADY "Stick It" to the Alex Smith whiners the past 2 seasons LOL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Get ready to "Stick It" some more now that he is in KC and has the full support of a good coaching staff, a equally talented team

Originally Posted by quittripping (Post 9933054)

Smoke more crack, maybe you will whine less ROFL

Originally Posted by keg in kc (Post 9932779)

I'm not saying it would be a failed trade if he's less than that, only a pointless one. Why bother if he can't be one of the best?

Andy Reid knows offense. Andy Reid knows quarterbacks. Alex Smith is his guy. There's nothing wrong with having high expectations. I know people are accustomed to failure. I know we're used to being kicked while we're down, and then getting pissed on. I know we're used to insane levels of rationalization, trying to justify the value of having Damon Huards and Tyler Thigpens and Matt Cassels and Brady Quinns and Tyler Palkos behind center. I know we're used to expecting little and getting less. I know it's scary to hope for more, because it sucks so much when we're let down.

Time for that to change.

Originally Posted by Jakemall (Post 9934553)

I get what you're saying. What I'm suggesting is that you're setting the bar too high for the price you paid. You're not going to get the next Peyton Manning for 2 2nds. If that's the kind of change you're looking for, may I suggest playing the lottery?

I get you're all tired of mediocrity, but I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I think Alex is a very good QB, but Peyton Manning is going to be a HOF player.

Question: If a player makes a team better, but isn't one of the best in the NFL, is a trade a failure? I don't think so...not as long as he brings more to the table than the 2 2nd rounders would have.

Originally Posted by keg in kc (Post 9934596)

I'm setting the bar as high as it *should* be set. When your coaching staff calls the quarterback you traded for, the one the new head coach has been in love with for years, the best in the NFL, when the guy is clearly and obviously being set up as the face of the franchise for the next 5 years, it is not out of proportion to expect him to be one of the top QBs in the league.

I am not saying he has to be Peyton Manning, specifically. I am also not saying he has to be Drew Brees, specifically. I simply listed those two as players who were able to excel immediately with new teams. Which I believe we should expect Alex Smith to do, with the offensive players in place around him.

What I am saying is that for this team to prosper long term, his name needs to be mentioned in the company of players like Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger and Eli Manning. He needs to become a part of that group for this trade to be worth it, in my opinion. Top 5-10 at his position. That's not asking too much. That's basically just asking him to be a 2013 version of Trent Green.

Originally Posted by Red Gorilla (Post 9932050)

Gannon was clutch. 16 fourth quarter comebacks and 20 game winning drives. He was highly underrated.