You don't have to.

But they probably will.

If we truly believe what we've been saying for years that the team needs to build through the draft, then we shouldn't be panicking about a Guard leaving the team. I would rather put our money on playmakers.

I'd rather put everything on playmakers.

I'm sick and ****ing tired of drafting linemen in the 1st round.

I would like to see us use a lot of late round picks and undrafted picks on positions like linemen. We should hopefully get to the point where every year, we have a young option to replace an expensive one. And you don't need big dollars or high draft picks to find good linemen.

I'm surprised at how many people on this thread are panicking about losing Schwartz. If people are so gung ho about not drafting a Guard in the first round, then they shouldn't hold the position in such high regard that we'd panic over losing one.

I'm at that point too. Last year's pick really bothered me.

I agree.

It's a numbers game. With both Schwartz and Asamoah as free agents, they're going to have to pick some players up somewhere. It opens up the very real possibility that they'll draft one early. After last year, that's just very hard for some of us to stomach.

Yeah, that concerns me too, given Reid's history. But I feel pretty good that for interior linemen, this won't be too big a concern. I feel like with Stephenson and Fisher at Tackle, we probably wouldn't have to worry about a first round lineman pick. Unless we're talking about a pro bowl level interior lineman which I wouldn't be crazy about, but it at least means you upgrade the position for a lot cheaper.

'Youngest Oline in the NFL'. How many times did Reid use that when the offense struggled. When Asomah and Schwartz started to rotate before GS took over full time when Asomoah was injured. Dorsey used the "youngest OLine in the NFL" line in his presser at the combine too. That line gets younger with Albert out the door. I expect them to draft for depth on the OL but I just don't see an early pic on OL.

It's the same reason why when the offseason started and I assumed they would get Schwartz re-signed I wanted to see an upgrade for Allen at LG because I also assumed Fisher would slide to LT sooner rather than later and I would like to see a vet Guard next to him. To balance things out.

And remember a big reason why they like Schwartz is he is a big G that can play T. Reid has a history of plugging in those types especially his earlier years in Philly. It helps greatly on the game day roster with only 7 active. There's what, one source out there saying Schwartz may not resign? It's pretty early to think that's a done deal compared to Albert leaving which looks much more like a far gone conclusion.

I hope they target guys like Ebon Britton G/T (played for Heck in J'ville)
Jason Spitz C/G who has GB Sea and J'ville connections in KC. Jon Gruden favorite Jeremy Trueblood G/RT. Guys like that for bargain signings. Competition to where if the Roc Watkins and Rishaw Johnsons beat them out they will be better because of the competition anyway.

Austin Howard, Michael Oher, and Roger Saffold all have a good market to get starting OT jobs with loads of cash but I would love to see KC throw some cash at one of them to come in and play G if they are willing which the only advantage edge there in recruiting them is to play for an up and coming team in KC and Reid. Money talks there. I just think Reid would like his own Mike Iupati type of G. Schwartz is still probably the cheapest option in that regard.

This just can't be quoted enough.

We will. Giving Schwartz what he wants for a contract isn't going to break the bank or prevent us from re-signing Berry, Houston, or Smith.

We can have a rotation of brilliant playmakers that we've always wanted if we keep drafting them. But we can't keep drafting them if we're wasting picks on the ****ing offensive line.

The offensive line is THE position to throw money at. The players are cheaper, and success is often based on chemistry and scheme. Once you find the right combination, it's not a good idea to be switching pieces in and out. It's about time that we had a starting offensive line that didn't have one or more first-year starters or rookies on it. It's also about time that we didn't have a starting offensive line with brokedick veterans on it like Lilja and Weigmann.

That's why we should re-sign Schwartz. And STOP ****ING DRAFTING OFFENSIVE LINEMEN.

That and offensive linemen tend to play for a lot longer than skill positions. A 30 year old OG is going to be just fine....where as a 30 year old WR/TE/RB is going to start declining.

Moar OL

http://cdn2.mocksession.com/wp-conte...HIEFS-FANS.gif

Top 10 OG Cap Hits.

Mankins - $10m
Snee - $8.5m
Blalock - $7.6m
Yanda - $7.45m
Colledge - $7.25m
Evans - $6.74m
Joseph - $6m
Nwaneri - $5.8m
Sitton - $5.5m
Incognito - $4.97m

I bet Incognito could be had for a bargain.

There you ****ing have it.

The Patriots (the kings of Jewing their own players) are paying out the ass for a guard who's been on the team for years.

Acquire your offensive line. Pay them. Quit wasting draft stock on the position. That's how you do it, folks.

You want to sign a guy to a long term deal after he only started 7 games here and 26 in 6 years?

I understand not wanting to draft one in the first 3 rounds, but there are plenty of Geoff Schwartz's in the last 4 rounds. Some even better. And they'll be even cheaper than Schwartz.

Then are we letting Asamoah walk?

If both of those guys leave, are we starting a rookie? Or are we bringing in a free agent?

The free agent will be just as pricey.

I wouldn't mind any of the above honestly. That's why I'm not bent out of shape about it. There's little if any difference in Asomoah, Schwartz, or a rookie except that Schwartz has pretty much maxed out his ceiling.

I do not want to start a rookie. Jeff Allen still plays like one. We don't need another.

Yeah, it's great if you find a Larry Warford staring at you in the 5th round. Good luck finding one, though. Otherwise there we are pissing away our 1st or 3rd on another guard.

Parriots drafted Logan Makins in the 1st round.:thumb: They also almost never spend a 1st on a WR.

Seriously. I'd take this over drafting a lineman in the first round. Hell what's Andy Reid's old ass Danny Watkins up to, can he be had cheap? Any cheap bargains would be worth it at this point just to have competition.

Some idiot team will do this and regret it...

Danny Watkins got washed out last offseason. Because he sucks. Nobody wanted him.

i'd rather kick the tires on some sucky players cheap then watch our 23 overall pick go to some guard/tackle out of West Tennessee Eastern Bermuda Triangle University.

They're both stupid options.

I'd prefer to sign as many good players as we can...

Zack Martin will be, at worst, a solid OT and has the physical skillset and potential to be an All-Pro OG in this league. The hit rate on 1st round offensive linemen is better than the hit rate on 1st round WRs.

Reid's offense doesn't need top flight WRs, it just needs solid players who are quick, fast, intelligent, sure handed, and most importantly guys who will run good routes. This draft is loaded with players like that in the 2nd-4th rounds.

And what makes you think that Schwartz won't revert back playing like the backup that he's been his whole career? He's honestly not much better than a rookie. Otherwise, he wouldn't have only 2 seasons with more than 3 games started in his career.

Why is that? Since when are guards a hard position to find late in the draft?

well yeah but what's your interpretation of "good player" then? I mean you could argue that Ritchie Icognito the player is no worse than the Fasanos, Schwartz, Avery types we signed last year.

Geoff Schwartz was a cheap low cost journeyman last year who played his way into a nice contract. He wasn't necessarily "good" in the FA market last year. We need to find those guys again, guys who have been bouncing around the league kind of whatever that can help the team and dont affect the cap much. The players that need a second chance in the league to prove themselves.

They only used to be "not hard to find" in the later rounds when they weren't valued as highly as they are now. Teams are finally getting smart and building through the trenches so OL players are getting drafted higher than in the past. It's just like how the value of TEs has become inflated in more recent history.

And how easy do you think that is? Every year there is a crapton of OL men who get drafted late and maybe 1 out of every 15-20 of them turns out to be good enough to start. It's never easy to find good players, otherwise every team would have an All-Pro level player at every position. It's no coincidence that the vast majority of the best players in the league are former 1st or 2nd round picks.

if my options are

1)
Olineman first round pick
Scrap heap FA skill players to round out the roster

or

2)
skill player first round pick
Scrap heap FA olineman journeyman to round the roster

For this current team's make up, I'd go with option 2. Obviously the dream scenario is Draft BPA and Sign a Good FA but I am not sure the cap will give us that option.

I am not sure of the quality of these guards you are talking about. Asamoah and Allen have not turned out to be so great.
But lets look at the draft last year with keeping in mind that it was not considered a great or deep year.
There was 3 OG taken in the first round: 7th, 10th, and 20th pick overall. There were 4 other OGs taken in the 3rd round.

Guards aren't difficult to find late in the draft, but that doesn't mean every guard you draft is gold.

Hell, just look at the ones the Chiefs have taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Even if there's great potential in them, none of them have ever been ready to start Week 1.

It's far more likely that our late round guard or Rishaw Johnson isn't ready and sucks. Far more than it is that Geoff Schwartz, a multi-year veteran who has played well for two different teams, can't handle a starting spot that he already took over last year adequately.

Schwartz isn't ideal. I agree. He's also not Will Shields. I know that, too. But all he costs is money. And not that much. We're not giving him Andy Levitre or Carl Nicks money.

In my opinion, that's the option that provides the most security and the best player for the cheapest price.

Who's the last guard the Chiefs drafted who turned out to be not a turd?

Will Shields.

Guards are easier to find than other positions in the late rounds, but that doesn't mean you should get rid of both RGs and replace them with unproven UDFAs from last year or a late round pick. That's not a smart decision.

You do realize that we didn't have a good offense until our OL picked up their play right? If a 1st round OL player this year could improve our OL play over last year from day 1, it stands to reason that our offense, even if we just stay status quo at WR and TE, will continue to perform at a high rate on a more consistent basis.

Plus, I don't know how many times we have to say it, but there are a bunch of WRs who can be productive in this offense that will be available in the 2nd-4th rounds and maybe even later.

We saw that improved play with the guys who played like shit earlier in the year. Doesn't it stand to reason that we can get that quality play by keeping those players on the team or going after cheap veteran options?

the oline picked up their play because we swapped a 3rd round Guard for a 7th round FA scrap heap journeyman and a 1st overall RT for a 3rd round swing tackle.

So the argument actually goes AGAINST you.

then the last game of the season the undrafted and late round picks in Kush and the gang didn't really look any different, against the Chargers starters.

Asamoah as of right now has had a better career than Schwartz, benching and all. In 2012 he allowed 2 sacks. In Schwartz's only year where he started all 16 games, he allowed 6.

I believe Asamoah was more a victim of the scheme we were trying to run early on in the season than him being bad. He was good in zone blocking which we ran more of at the end of the year. He likely would have been just as good if not better had we switched earlier.

Not really.

He allowed 6 sacks in 2010 when he was a starter http://www.profootballweekly.com/pla...hwartz-267010/

Other than that he's been a career backup. You think that's a coincidence?

Brandon Albert :D

Seriously dude, don't link a site that literally has an out of business sign posted on the front page from 9 freakin months ago...

fail, seriously fail

:shake:

All their stats are provided by Stats.inc.

He allowed 6 sacks....when Jimmy Clausen was their starting QB.....as a rookie. JFC....burn him at the stake.

Let me use another team as an example, Alex Smith's former team, the 49ers.

They are regarded as having one of the best OLs and best front 7s in the NFL. Let's look at where their players were drafted:

LT- Joe Staley- 1st round
LG- Mike Iupati- 1st round
RT- Anthony Davis- 1st round
C- Jonathan Goodwin- 5th round (FA already established as a good starter in the league)
RG- Alex Boone- UDFA (he was a 2nd round talent who fell out of the draft due to a well documented drinking problem so it's not like the 49ers magically discovered him)

3 1st round picks, an already established starting caliber Center, and a 2nd round talent who fell out of the draft due to off the field issues. Niners weren't taking a shot in the dark, they went and got their guys to solidify their OL. Only one you could make an argument for is Boone but he's hardly a surprising find talent-wise; he just couldn't care about his draft status enough to stop binge drinking in college.

Now lets look at their front 7.

RDE- Justin Smith-1st round well established League vet.
NT- Glenn Dorsey- 1st round established League Vet.
LDE- Ray McDonald- 3rd pick (another guy who fell in the draft due to injuries in college)
ROLB- Aldon Smith- 1st round
MLB- Patrick Willis- 1st round
MLB- Navorro Bowman- 3rd round
LOLB- Ahmad Brooks- 3rd round in a supplemental draft, signed as FA

So one of the most dominant offensive lines in the league and most dominant DLs in the league is filled with 1st-3rd round talents and established league vets? Who would have guessed?

For the record, I'm not against re-signing Asamoah if we're really going to stick with ZBS.

We have little information about Dorsey's intentions as far as any of our potential free agents are concerned. Only thing we've heard thus far from his mouth is that he's in talks with Albert's people (like that will ever happen) and now this rumor about Schwartz.

In the meantime, though, let's not rely on a rookie.

agree completely with all but especially bolded. Another 22-23 yr old is gonna make mistakes now matter how talented. This line doesn't need to get any younger

We do have options.


If Kush wins the center job that would allow Hudson to compete for guard as well.

Some people believe that Allen should be a swing tackle.

Eric Fisher sucks

That's the way I see it too. Allen, Rokevius Watkins, Hudson. I wouldn't be in a panic if they competed for 2 spots. All the while, groom some young guys to step in. But agree with SNR... no high picks.

If Schwartz is reasonably priced, great. I have a feeling some team will overpay him.

He was in college. A pretty good one actually.

I wasn't talking about Fisher. I was talking about the few arguing that adding another High pic to an already really young OL is somehow a good idea

If Kush were to win the C job, assuming he's ready which is a big assumption based on only the SD game, shift Hudson to LG where he thrived at FSU. Allen played both T spots as they where a strong/weak team who flipped their OL instead of a Right and left. Plus he's got enough arm length to play OT. I also wouldn't mind them dangling him for a pic but I doubt they could get one high enough to justify trading him.

Having Brady at qb it's more important to protect him than draft playmakers high. He can turn an average guy into a playmaker and he isn't mobile so you have to protect him. Different circumstances here. Almost completely the opposite.

Flip side, look at the Lions as an example of always drafting skills players high for years. Sure, they eventually got Megatron, but they still suck.

Look at the Falcons who completely ignore their OL last off-season, tell me what their record in 2013 was again? How did the Dolphins do without a good OL but good weapons on the outside? And the Giants?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

I don't care about other teams I care what is best for the chiefs. Alex is much more mobile than Brady so he can get away with an average line. But Alex needs quality playmakers more than Brady does. And that is not a knock on Alex Brady is one of the best.

Delusional sucks.

My point was that many people didn't give Fisher the benefit of 'young players are going to make mistakes regardless of talent'

It fit their agenda to declare that Fisher sucks ... many continue to do so tbh.

it was just funny hearing somebody talk about young guys and mistakes is all.

ok got ya :thumb:

I would try to resign Jon.

The Lions suck because their QB is a turnover machine and their pass defense blows. The Falcons lost Julio Jones early in the season and Roddy White played injured for much of the season. Tannehill has yet to prove he is any good. Eli is immobile and has to have a stellar line to succeed.

KC's line is going to be fine. Fisher and Stephenson at tackle is above average and I'm confident Dorsey will find enough players to adequately fill the interior of the line.

Jon was either here or there but never consistent. Frustrating at times.

We've got options, sure, but none of them are very secure, nor can you know the results until preseason play, when the draft and most of the quality veterans have been signed by other teams.

It would really be lovely if Rishaw Johnson and Eric Kush were legitimately the same players we saw against San Diego. There's just no way to tell, however, and if I'm banking on those guys in a year where the team is making a serious push for the division title and some noise in the playoffs, that's a bad bet.

Teams usually unearth special talent when it shows up because of injury or when they drastically outperform the starters in training camp. You don't often see legitimate playoff teams take 6th round centers and undrafted rookie guards from the previous season and just hand them a job because they showed a lot of promise on the scout team and in one game.

So what if he's more mobile? You're saying it's ok to have poor OL play because Alex can escape the pressure a lot of he times. Sure, how did that work out for our offense early in the year? I recall a lot of bitching and moaning about Alex always dumping the ball off to his hot-read. Well yeah no shit, who could wait for a deep route or intermediate route to develop when you already have pressure in your face in less than 2 seconds on numberous occassions? It was also a new group of WRs for him and a new offense for all of them so he can't exactly chuck it up and trust the WR to be where he is supposed to be.

Alex is better at escaping pressure than most QBs but that doesn't mean that you just leave it up to him to always avoid the inevitable pressure that will come from having a bad OL. I thought you guys would have at least seen by now that, like every QB to have ever played the game of football, Alex Smith is at his best when he actually has time to work with.

He also doesn't need game breakers at WR, he just needs guys who can run consistent routes, get some separation, and not drop the damn ball when it hits them in the freaken hands. He doesn't need a Calvin Johnson/AJ Green/Josh Gordon/Julio Jones/Larry Fitzgerald that'll go up in tripple coverage and come down with the ball like Stafford does. Could he benefit from that type of WR? Sure, all QBs could use one.

But Alex Smith would be fine with a bunch of Doug Baldwins if you did one thing for him, give him time in the pocket.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Chiefs&amp;src=hash">#Chiefs</a> meet with guard <a href="https://twitter.com/geoffschwartz">@geoffschwartz</a>’s agent during combine, but the two sides may not agree on money: <a href="http://t.co/iqA8SBbumq">http://t.co/iqA8SBbumq</a></p>&mdash; Terez A. Paylor (@TerezPaylor) <a href="https://twitter.com/TerezPaylor/statuses/439575090011725824">March 1, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Chiefs meet with guard Geoff Schwartz’s agent during combine
February 28
BY TEREZ A. PAYLOR
The Kansas City Star

“Geoff Schwartz loved it in Kansas City and would love to come back in Kansas City,” Deryk Gilmore said. “It’s just that he wants to be wanted, and hopefully Kansas City wants him. He’s a starter and he wants to be paid like a starter.”

Despite starting only eight games last season, the 6-foot-6, 340-pound Schwartz posted a plus-18.6 Pro Football Focus grade, the highest any Chiefs offensive lineman, and was rated as the site’s top free-agent guard. He was playing on a one-year, $700,000 contract.

Gilmore refused to specify the terms he’s seeking, but similar players who hit the market at Schwartz’s position last offseason signed multi-year deals.

Andy Levitre, Pro Football Focus’ No. 2 free-agent guard in 2012 with a grade of plus-17.3, signed a multi-year deal with Tennessee that paid him a base salary of $2.5 million last season and $6.5 million this year.

The No. 4 guard, Louis Vasquez of Denver (plus-12.7), signed for base salaries of $2 million in 2013 and $3 million in 2014. The No. 5 guard, Donald Thomas (plus-11.2), signed with Indianapolis for base salaries of $2.5 million in 2013 and $3.5 million in 2014.

Those are hardly prohibitive salaries in today’s NFL, but as it stands, the Chiefs will need to free up cap room to be a player in free agency. The league has set the 2014 salary cap at $133 million, which should give the Chiefs roughly $9.62 million in cap space, according to salary cap expert Joel Corry.

However, the Chiefs must also fit upcoming draft picks under the cap — which will take roughly $5.5 million, according to Corry — and it remains to be seen if they’re willing to pay what it might take to retain Schwartz.

Schwartz, 28, just completed his sixth year. He took over as the Chiefs’ right guard in Week 12 because of an injury to Jon Asamoah, starting five of the next six games, only resting for the Week 17 game against San Diego. Schwartz showed his versatility in that game, however, as he played right tackle.

He played in 14 games total last season, including three at left guard, where he also made one start.

Free agency begins league-wide on March 11, but teams can negotiate with their own free agents until then.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/28...#storylink=cpy

Can't keep everyone I guess.

But damn, some of these high contract guys we have better start playing a shit ton better.

Definitely in the defense.

Gs are taken high in the draft less than any other position, and there is a reason for that.
Positional value is real, and only what teams consider to be elite talents at C and G are taken in the first round, and usually late in the first round.
You were way off when you said that G is a position that has risen in value as it has actually declined with the increase in demand for players such as TE, and safety in a league that is increasingly geared toward the passing game.
G may have lowest positional valuein the league above only FB and maybe 2 down (thumper) ILB

Quite true, there sure as hell isn't some one size fits all best philosophy... what works best for Brady sure isn't the best thing for Smith.

If Schwartz wants more than 3 million a season, move on.

He was the most sacked QB in the league last season, had a non existent run game, and hardly any weapons outside of Mike Wallace and Charles Clay. Can you name their second WR?

He carried that offense.

well thats not gonna happen. most of them are about to hit 30 and the cliff is coming sooner than later.

their 2nd WR had 1000 yards

hes not some noticeable drop off

Brian Hartline> Donnie Avery

Damn, he did crack 1,000 yards (more than Wallace, FTR). Hartline is good but nothing special; I suspect if we had him we'd be looking to upgrade just like we are now.

The point is, Tannehill didn't have much to work with. Wallace and Hartline are serviceable to "pretty good" on certain days, but are either of them top 15? Top 20? Top 30?

People bitch about Alex Smith not having enough weapons but he had a decent offensive line and the most productive running back in the league helping him. Tannehill didn't have much and the fact that Hartline broke 1,000 yards is actually more of a testament to Ryan than it is himself, I think.

The kid did a pretty good job with what he was given.

I should point out that I really, really don't like Mike Wallace.

As for all of those people advocating going with journeymen OL players and low round picks. You really trust this line:

Stephenson/Fisher - Allen - Hudson - (journeyman/Watkins/Johnson/etc) - Fisher/Stephenson

To hold up against:

SF:

A. Smith - J. Smith - McDonald - Brooks

Seattle:

Irvin/Clemons/Avril - Mebane - McDaniels - Bennett

Arizona: (With Washington blitzing in the middle)

Acho - Campbell - Williams - Docket - Okafor

St. Louis:

Quinn - Brockers - Langford - Long


And I haven't even mentioned the Jets and their tremendous front 7 yet. You've gotta be kidding me if you think that we'll be ok with what's currently on the roster or with just getting a late round player to start or even any of our depth guys. If we don't have good players in place on the OL, don't expect us to get out of their with Alex Smith's health intact.

Ssssh! Realism isn't welcomed on this board. The Chiefs will be just fine with a bench warmer that looked "just fine" against an unprepared San Diego team last December.

Tannehill is a definite sleeper, considering the internal tumult of last year I'd say he did a very admirable job of keeping things together... just because he wasnt an INSTANT superstar doesn't mean he wont be great.

In many ways, he's a lot like Alex Smith IMO... very efficient with whats given to him talentwise and able to keep the wolves at bay in the lockerroom through steady leadership.

Not an instant eye catcher, but one of those guys who can really grow on you.

Or you could do the same thing with our WR's and the secondaries they will be facing.

You can scheme to beat coverage, but all of that won't mean a damn thing if your QB is running for his life in less than 2 seconds. The most important thing has always been time in the pocket and having a clean pocket to work with.

Manning had all of the receiving talent he could ask for against the Seahawks, but that didn't matter because the Seahawks destroyed his pocket and took him out of his comfort zone.