That's bullshit.

He didn't need a 'light's out' defense last January.

And last night's defense, while it did 'force' FGs, only gave them up after giving up 3rd and long time after time after time, mostly to a scrub JAG RB. They were only a severely underperforming Manning away from a decent 50-dinger hung on them. There were at least 4 TDs that didn't happen solely because either Manning overthrew, or the receiver dropped perfectly thrown balls.

He needs a competent team around him, but so does EVERY 'elite' QB that's ever been to the SB.

Not from me, not anymore...

Did the line play their worst game last night, yes.
Do our receivers still lack any real explosive ability, yes.

But none of that changes the fact that he did have chances to make something happen and he missed them repeatedly, when an offense has three straight three and outs you can bet that the QB most certainly deserves a heaping dose of blame.

12 games in and he hasn't been able to find an open WR in the endzone? BULLSHIT

12 games in and his longest pass of the year is 34 yards? BULLSHIT

The grind it out, methodical style is fine if that's what he prefers, but ONLY when its coupled with the capability to get yards in chunks when it becomes NECESSARY.

**** him along with all the rest of this shithole, last night was my breaking point... I'm going full Clay from here on.

He's boring, but what does anyone suggest we do? Draft Derek Carr or Blake Bortles?

Open up the ****ing playbook. Shake up the offensive line.

Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel were also possibilities last year. There are going to be some growing pains with both, but at QB if you don't have upside you don't have shit and that's why we have shit.

Welcome, brother.

Well I agree with that. But it's time for everyone to realize Smith is our QB for at least 2 more seasons, minimum.

And it's time for Reid to have a hard talk with him and look himself in the mirror the same time and realize WE HAVE TO THROW THE BALL DOWNFIELD

We upgrade his line and receivers next year and tell him "you have no excuses now, start making plays when we need them or your expensive ass can go have a seat".

This year we're just gonna have to suck it up I'm afraid, theres just no chance Reid sits his big money signing for Daniel or Murray when we're still "technically" in the hunt.

I wouldn't mind picking up a QB in the draft either, create a logjam in camp and see who can rise above it.

Upgrading his receivers will only bring more excuses.

"He hasn't had time to gel with this receivers."

"His receivers are new to the offense."

This is what I find funny about people claiming that we need to draft 2-3 WRs. Do you really think that Dorsey/Reid are going to run this offense next year with that many rookies? They couldn't even ****ing trust ONE this season.

This.

Yeah, the coaches need their fair share ass kicking, last nights plan looked sooo uninspired, the TEAM looked uninspired... the offense wasn't using any of its usual motions, shifts and trickery, the defense looked just plain flat like they'd all lost their ****ing moms Saturday night.

I've finally had it, they had no excuse to look like that.

The goalposts continually shift with people here.

Point is you'll never get a team that is operating at optimal efficiency at every level. You have to make coaching and personnel decisions to alleviate that.

I have no doubt there will be at least one WR taken next year. And then it will be obvious that the player is a rookie then Smith will get a pass because not everyone can be Odell Beckham or Sammy Watkins.

There will be one OL taken that won't unseat a current guy on the line. "It takes a lot of time for a lineman to be NFL ready. Look at Eric Fisher!"

Point is this lag time between when a player is drafted and when they start becoming gameday ready takes a two seasons.. And this should have been considered when Smith was traded for.

and ALEX NEEDS TO LEARN HOW TO AUDIBLE TO A HOT ROUTE WHEN THE BLITZ IS ABOUT TO COME!

Teams are going to keep stacking the box so Jamaal doesn't go off on them and because Alex can't handle it.

How would Luck have performed with this god awful o line and lack of decent receivers? Our O line can't pass block for more than 2 seconds and our receivers can't get any kind of seperation in 10 seconds let alone 2. Then mix in the fact that we don't use one of our best offensive weapons (Kelce) on a consistent basis, and that during 1/3 of our games the coach forgets we have Charles on the roster, and Davis barely touches the ball. Lots of problems on this team. I think Luck is a good qb who has the ability to be great, but I don't see many qbs being successful with all the odds they would have to fight here.

That's what happens when you cant stop the run and the heart of your defense (Berry, DJ) is missing.

He would do what most QBs do. He would find the ****ing outlet to dump it off too. He'd also take shots down the field which would keep the defense honest.

I don't see how either of those are really options.

The only time the Chiefs can throw is when the defense doesn't expect it. They simply can't hold up on the O-line to let routes develop.

with these weapons? He'd just be rapidly tumbling down the Geno Smith hill.

No, Alex is playing a wise and patient game. He will work with what he has.. in his own way.. until the decision-makers bring in real talent to throw to and real talent to pass block.

Answer something... where would you and others categorize our OL corps? Bottom 5, right? How about the collection of WRs? bottom 5, right?

So what in the hell do you really expect a good but not great QB to do with that? and which other QBs could do more with this?

I hate you.

A wise and patient game? What's wise about never audibling into a hot route to relieve the all-out blitzes that we see all the time?

Our WRs are not bottom 5....and neither is the offensive line.

It's probably by design. There are in fact systems that do not allow the QB to audible out.

Rivers wasn't allowed to audible out of a play when Norv was his HC.

IIRC, Trent Green wasn't allowed to audible out during the DV era.

Eh.....you sure 'bout that.....I think a pretty strong argument can be made that our O-line is most certainly a bottom feeder.

It takes a wise and patient QB to not find the guy running completely free when the defense sends extras on the pass rush.

Hell, good QB's KNOW who the free man is going to be before the ball is snapped. They don't have to "find" them.

Good QB's WANT to be blitzed.

LOL... Which teams have it worse? Name them all.

You know what. That's a fair point. I never see alex audible.

He always audibled under harbs. Does Andy not let him?

So...what you're saying is our $17 mil a year high football IQ QB can't be trusted to audible into plays that high school QBs are allowed to audible into. SWEET!

I think they're in the 20-25 range.

only counting 4.6 mil against the KC cap this season. :D

According to Football Outsiders, they are ranked 10th in adjusted line yards rushing, and 22nd in adjusted sack rate.

OL:

Jaguars
Redskins
Panthers
Jets
Vikings
Titans

Hoyer has done more with his bottom 5 group of WR's than Smith has. Before, Gordon returned.

Hawkins 52 receptions for 718 yards and 2 TDs. (longest 65 yards)
Austin 47 receptions for 568 yards and 2 TDs.
Gabriel 30 receptions for 540 yards and 1 TD. (longest 70 yards).

A bad QB able to find some poor WRs.

The remaining 4 according to FO:

Tampa
Seattle
STL
SF

The backs and tightends are pretty good weapons. You arent going to be top shelf everywhere.

Good post.

Russell Wilson has put up more passing yardage throwing to Doug Baldwin, Ricardo Lockette and Paul Richardson.

This is one I've been harping on for the longest time. Personally, I think Russ is very good. Damn all the 400 yard games. I want my QB to make the right plays at the right times to win games and Wilson does that more often than not.

This site loves to ride him for having stats that often look identical to Alex's except they don't actually watch the games. His offensive line and skill position players are every bit as bad as ours. He's still better than our 9 year vet in his 3rd year.

Peyton's game last night was actually a good example of what you need from a guy sometimes. 179 yards with a 50% completion percentage and a sack that resulted in a lost fumble. But that mother****er completed, what seemed to be, 90% of passing 3rd downs.

Didn't Hoyer just get benched for Johnny boy? I read Hoyer has 1 td to 6 interceptions the last three games.
I would say it doesn't matter much how many yards the wr gets if the turnovers aren't controlled/limited.

Then again I haven't seen much of the browns.

Most passing concepts have built in hot reads. No need to 'hot route' a receiver, more important to call out the protection or check someone into protection from their route. I've never seen HS Qb's changing routes at the line. Maybe checking to a run from a pass or vice versa, but not changing just one route.

Nope... only the bolded belong in there.

Jags are 7th best in pass pro...
Skins are 11th best..
Jets are 15th best..

So KC is right there in the bottom 5.

Which teams have a worse group of WRs now?


and Hoyer??? the guy that got benched last weekend? the guy with the #35 ranking from PFF and a 27th rank in ESPN rating? That guy?

(Smith being ranked 13th and 15th, respectively)

wow...

“Keep our heads down and just know it takes one game to get back into it,” Bowe said. “We got to start by that one game. I think we’re going to get back to the basics next week and just start off with Chiefs’ style football, pounding and grinding and open it up with the play-action.”

Yes, Hoyer has sucked recently. That's the point. Even a bad QB can find poor WRs. Alex should be able to find a WR.

Cleveland has the 2nd best ranked pass pro OL... no shit a QB can find receivers with that kind of time.

FO won't be updated until Tues/Wed.. I'd bet the Denver game pushes the Chiefs down, you?

Good point.

Nothing should even need to be changed- only recognized. You'd think the 9 year vet who is supposedly a master of the short passing game in an offense that is predicated on the short passing game would know where his outlet guy is going to be.

Line up, recognize where the potential blitzers could be coming from, find a receiver in that direction, pass the ****ing ball, profit!

One thing to Alex's credit: I remember after one sack Collinsworth said "let's see if anyone was open down field" and they showed a replay of Bowe running his route and then Avery running his route. Both were running go routes :facepalm:

I'm sure there was an underneath route to a TE or back that they didn't show but why in the blue ****? I mean, I only play Madden so maybe I'm not too qualified to speak on this but why are both wideouts running go routes on a night when your protection is getting fisted and one of the guys isn't even a deep threat kind of guy? Didn't make any sense in the context that I saw but maybe Reid was trying to open something up underneath or set them up for something in the future...

yeah, that was hilarious.. the CBs were pouring some tea as they jogged a few yards ahead.

So you're going to cherry pick one stat and that's what you're going to go off of? If I remember correctly....you didn't say that the Chiefs offensive line was a bottom 5 in just pass blocking. You said a bottom 5 unit. All of those teams listed....have given up more sacks than the Chiefs.

Denver didn't blitz for the most part.

It was 4 guys rushing but not the 4 down linemen.

When teams blitz with extra rushers you are correct, it is on the QB to try and beat it with a pass to the guy that isn't covered.

Smith has a pretty good history of doing this.

If it does, it won't be by much.

Smith had 2.9 seconds or more to throw on 4/6 sacks. That's plenty of time in the NFL.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt...le4223679.html

This is what bothers me the most. Denver runs very basic passing concepts. It's been well known for a while now that Manning loves pick/chair route, hi/lo (levels), china, smash, tare/stick... real BASIC passing concepts. He gets the ball out quick and to the area the defender blitzed from. He sees 1 high safety? He will look for a seam vs zone, or take a shot down the sideline if your pressings w/ one high. I wont get into the fact that his receivers release off press correctly and stem correctly.. but why we are NOT running these passing concepts is beyond me.

Guess it wasn't specified, but I'd been talking about the pass pro side of an OL. Total sacks can be deceptive, when regarding just how bad an OL is. Just as having a great run block rank could be far more due to having a great RB than a great OL.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to nail down a specific ranking for pass pro as well... since many variables outside of the OL get added into this. Alex will play safe and take more sacks than others... He also uses mobility to avoid some sacks that other QBs would eat.

... but really, if you watch a lot of non-KC football games also? You could easily tell that KC has one of the bottom OLs in the league.

This team has had the roster severely turned over the past two seasons. Pioli created a mess that Dorsey is trying to fix. Smith is solid but nobody could win much our crap OL and recievers. Not Dorseys fault when there are so many over bloated contracts eating up all the money. The guys we let walk were not that great anyway and paying top dollar for Albert would have been stupid. It was bad to pay Bowe but we had nothing thanks to Pioli. We are not there yet but we are young and on the rise.

Turning a team

So, what is your take on why this didn't happen last night?

I'd really like to know and see some gifs of these plays.. I'm content to bash Smith myself, if there's sufficient number of plays that he just failed on. Is it Reid's scheme? Because I sure didn't see much in the way of receivers breaking into quick-hitting routes to beat the blitz.

You wont know without seeing the A22 film.

Agreed.

That can be a deceptive stat as well.

Let's say for instance that the ball is snapped and just as Smith hits his back foot on a 3 step drop.. he has a DL shoot through McSuck and get in his face... Smith wiggles to the right and the DL fails to wrap arms around him to get him down... so Smith continues to the right looking for lane to run, but the RT can't stay in front of his man, and the defender brings Smith down for the sack.

A likely sack that should have taken 1.7 seconds.. took 2.9 seconds... but it was 2.9 due to Smith's initial evasion.

See? impossible to really nail down these things by looking at a stat.

Smith is just a symptom of the problem...

Why does CP always want to treat the symptom and not find a cure for the disease??

Smith is limited in his abilities, we all know that. But Reid is a god damn lazy fat **** moron...

10 Days to prepare for the Broncos and he goes full Herm Edwards on this franchise and fan base...

4 of the sacks were when down 13 in the 4th Q.
DBs were likely playing smart and didn't care to bite on fakes and just waited for the WRs to try and break open. 5-10 yard completions were not gonna work with 7 min left.

There was open check-downs, Kelce was 1 of them I remember watching for a pass standing at the top of the screen but Smith kept his eyes on the WRs and then got sacked.

Yeah... hard enough for QBs to play well behind poor OLs when defenses know you have to pass. Particularly when there are no WRs that strike fear into them.

Was just a shit game.. preceded by another shit game the week before. Both weeks, their opponents looked hungrier than did KC.

With how bad our OL is, and our lack-luster receiving.. I'm surprised we haven't adopted more of a spread offense similar to what Chip is running in philly now. Alex is a viable running threat off the zone read, and we can even package JC/Davis/DAT/Bowe/Kelce and run a Gus Malzahn-ish read option/jet sweep play action game.

I also agree with this.



On an unrelated (somewhat) note, I really hate McGlynn.

I would love that.

It would also work wonders in getting Jamaal some room to work with..

This a good idea but you still have to block. Football has evolved but the team that blocks and tackles the best will win more than they lose. We neither block nor tackle worth two damns.

KC hasn't had the depth chart to do much of it.

Haven't had a #2 WR let alone a #3 like Jordan Matthews. Probably the #2 now after the last month pushing Cooper down to 3.

And if you do it you take one of the best FBs in the NFL out of the lineup.

And it's not like Philly has actually been doing great on offense.

There's something lower than bottom 5?

The WRs may suffer from how bad the OL is, but that OL is 1970s expansion team bad.

If we were able to spread out the offense and get guys in space with a QB that was willing to pull the trigger, our shit WRs would instantly start to look better.

The more dime defenses we saw would also create a ton of space for Jamaal to work with inside. Can you imagine Charles with the ball and only a MLB to stop him? That's what often happens when Lesean McCoy gets a carry.

As much as i LOVE sherman, when he is in the game with JC, they just walk a safety into the box. Sherman/Fasano pretty much spells run, Sherman/Kelce more often I would like to see. Maybe even flex Kelce in the slot how they used to with Gonzo.

Does anyone have access to the All 22 view and could provide screen shots to show who and if anyone was open for a hot read when Smith was under pressure?

It isn't made available until later in the week - but it's been used before to show Alex missing wide open guys and people still make excuses.

I don't even give a shit if he just throws the ball at a guy's feet when he has free runner coming up the middle.

An incomplete pass is better than a sack every day of the week.

I will take a look tomorrow.

This is true.

Thanks

Fore sure Kelce was wide open on a little rub action when he took a sack one of the plays.

I was literally surprised your GM did not draft Teddy Bridgewater rather than Dee Ford.

I thought, you sit Bridgewater behind Alex for 2 years and Bridgewater would be out of the gate like a shot in year 3. Alex would have been an awesome mentor, you still have a decent QB for 2 years for the bridge nibbling around the playoffs, then you have a chance at a franchise QB with Bridgewater.

Could have tagged Alex his 2nd year, made him play on the cheap contract this year.

Bridgewater might flop, but it was a great risk and Dorsey let it slip right through his fingers. Great linebackers are rare but far less rare than franchise QBs with top 10 potential. I'm not even saying Bridgewater had top 10 potential, but it was worth the risk.

Dorsey really screwed the pooch passing on Bridgewater? I think Manziel carries far more risk, but even he was worth rolling the dice on. But passing on Bridgewater? Just a mistake.

Q
 

The Chiefs need to grab the best QB prospect they can just as soon as they can. This year if possible. He can then ride the pine for 2 years, starting in year 3, and meanwhile you have a very competent game manager to hold down the fort.

Alex Smith is an A+ mentor for young QBs and Andy is a decent QB guru. A young QB would be in a wonderful future position on the Chiefs.

The very worst thing your GM could do is to pass on a promising QB prospect to give Alex more weapons or beef up the O-line or defense. The sooner you draft a QB prospect for Alex to mentor, the sooner you are going to have the true franchise QB you need for playoff runs.

Bridgewater is throwing for more YPG than Smith, and doing so with 800 year old Greg Jennings as his WR1.