Alex Smith is carried by Charles and the Chiefs defense too. I don't see why the situations are so different. Both are good quarterbacks who can have great games on any given Sunday but for the most part they rely on their defenses and running games to win games.

Once again, it would take a terrible QB to **** up what the Seahawks have done the past few years. If you are a quarterback and you can average 200 yards and 1-2 TDs a game, you're going to win there.

He won a playoff game where he threw 4 INTs. Alex Smith lost a playoff game where he threw 4 TDs. Think about that.

Rank the top 18 QBs in the league. I'd like to see it.

You're ****ing clueless.

Cool. Russell Wilson won that 4 INT game by making two 35+ yard passes in one drive -the latter of which was a completion to Kearse who was blanketed.

Alex Smith never throws that pass in that situation.

Wow. You're ****ing dumb. I'd give up my next 10 firsts for luck. He's the QB we've been searching for since Dawson.

I can see I'm not going to change your mind..

But Wilson is only going into his fourth season. We're all hoping things will click and Alex will suddenly become some deep threat phenom in his eleventh season. Is it not more reasonable to expect a fourth year player to improve over a guy that's been in the league for over a decade?

Also, think about the draft. How much is a 1st rounder really worth? Eric Fisher, Dee Ford, Jon Baldwin? Hell, Dwayne Bowe was one of our best 1st round picks of the past 20 ****ing years and people here HATE that guy.

Lmao. The 4 INT game. The one where he made so many clutch plays after 9/10 QBs would've folded including a beautiful pass to win the game in overtime on a play he checked into ...

Yeah man. Keep grasping for those straws.

It's hilarious that Tom Brady is the greatest because of his postseason record but Russell Wilson is Alex Smith with a defense and a RB

***NEWSFLASH***

The best defense in the Super Bowl was New England. They had a better game plan and a better team.

One guy kept Seattle in that game and also had them the game. One guy. Wilson played such a great Super Bowl and people in this board still only wanted to categorize it as "ok."

Just so dumb. So, so dumb.

Joe Montana threw 3 INT in his first NFCC win against Dallas.

But no one remembers that!

People on this board have overrated draft picks for years. Two firsts for a franchise QB would be like trading two 10 speed bicycles for a Porsche

Potentially.

There is potential for higher reward but also comes with more risk. I don't think you're stressing that enough.

You really have to weigh the risk vs reward. Passing the ball isn't always the best option.

He's the GOAT cuz his playoff record! Just like Brady! But playoff wins don't matter for Russell cuz ... Yeah!

:popcorn:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In his career, Russell Wilson has faced pressure on 43.2% of his dropbacks, more than any other QB over that span. <a href="http://t.co/tN0ictkj2Q">pic.twitter.com/tN0ictkj2Q</a></p>&mdash; Pro Football Focus (@PFF) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF/status/612715494211239936">June 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'll do tiers of Qbs instead of ranks.

Tier 1:
Aaron Rodgers
Andrew Luck
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning

Tier 2:
Tony Romo
Ben Roethlisberger
Philip Rivers
Drew Brees

Tier 3:
Matt Ryan
Russell Wilson
Alex Smith
Joe Flacco
Cam Newton

Tier 4:
Eli Manning
Jay Cutler
Andy Dalton
Matt Stafford
Colin Kaepernick

Tier 5:
Rest of the quarterbacks.


I think the quarterbacks in each tier are pretty much interchangeable with one another.

Exactly. Like the poster in here who said he wouldn't even give up 5 1sts for Luck. ROFL

LMAO Yeah he needed to make those passes because HE THEW 4 INTERCEPTIONS IN THAT GAME.

He was only in position to make those plays because the defense was able to hold Aaron Rodgers in check and Mike McCarthy coached like a dumbass in the 4th quarter.

There aren't many quarterbacks given the luxury of throwing 4 interceptions and still being in the game at the very end. I'm not going to praise a guy for playing like ass for 98% of a game but still pulling a win out of his ass. If you don't throw 4 INTs that game, you don't need to rely on a punter throwing a touchdown pass and needing to make two very great clutch throws at the last second to win.

That ends up being the case with some Andrew Luck games.

Remember when the 49ers defense put Alex Smith in a position to make some plays because they held Eli Manning in check.

And then, oops.

He was Alex Smith and those plays never happened.

Luck gets the excuses, Russell doesn't. It's Tom and Peyton redux

Andrew Luck has never had a 4 INT game. And even in the 3 INT games he won (two of them) he also threw 4 touchdowns in each. Russell Wilson threw 1 touchdown in that 4 INT game.

Wilson is better than everyone in his tier. Come on now. In your scenario, he's top 10 at worst.

Sorry, with that defense, I'm not gonna stress it.

Obviously, the way the offense plays allows the defense to play the way it does. If he's out there throwing up 4 picks a game or putting the defense in the red zone multiple times, it's gonna kill it.

They play to their strengths. No problem with that.

I am curious to see how Wilson plays when he doesn't have said defense to fall back on. I'm also not really one that cares too much about the running aspect of his game. He's great at it and doesn't take many hits, but it's only going to take 1 and if I'm giving him a monster deal, I've gotta have him on the field.

I think that offense will be alot better with their additions this offseason, though I think the loss of the center they traded will hurt the run game some, but graham will help alot.

How is he better than Matt Ryan? Would Matt Ryan not have a superbowl victory if he played with Seattle instead of Atlanta? If his defense gave up 18 points per game in the playoffs instead of 31?

And that's the whole point of tiers. You can be better than everyone in your tier, but that doesn't mean you are good enough for the tier above. Right now, for the year 2015, I wouldn't trade Russell Wilson for any of the QBs in tier 2.

Luck is just asked to do so much more within his offense. I'd like to see wilson be given that type of rope and let him throw it around, he's extremely intelligent I think he could do it well.

Almost, except Wilson will try to win a game at all costs. Smith is content to run out the clock in a loosing effort knowing he had no turnovers on the day.
Sure hed like to win the game, but taking greater risks to accomplish that just isnt worth it.

Let me ask you this...if we build a team like the Seahawks with a strong running game and defense with some weapons, which is entirely possible due to the following:

-JC is just as good as Lynch
-Chiefs defense, while maybe not as good, is absolutely top 5 worthy.
-Kelce and Maclin are very good targets.

Do you think we can make the SB with Alex under those circumstances?

The worry about Wilson eating a big hit is way overblown.

He's not a true run-first QB like Mike Vick and he's about as intelligent as can be when it comes to avoiding the big hit. He's not a dumbass like RGIII.

Looking at those tiers, there's gonna be alot of qbs leaving the nfl soon.

Brady manning and Brees have to be getting close, rivers ain't no spring chicken.

Hell, even romo and big Ben are getting up there.

Frankly, while true, personally I don't care. Hypothetically here, I'm the gm. For a contract like he's apparently wanting, I don't want my guy running as much as he does.

I know people rag on Flacco, but why would you not take this guy? Dude had a very good statistical year and he's been MONEY in the playoffs.

17 TD's to 2 INT's the last two postseasons and he's played great ball in New England multiple times.

The guy is one of the best postseason QB's in the NFL. He's absolutely a top 10 QB. You would be hard pressed to find 10 QB's you would want over him.

I would take him over a guy like Rivers any day.

Yep. A lot of the very elite QBs in the league are on their way out. Wilson is part of the new school that can hopefully take their place.

Or to put it another way would you give up the last two 1st rd picks Fisher and Ford for Russell Wilson. Of course everybody would. Well, except Seattle.

That's debatable. Wilson almost out-dueled Ryan on his home turf in Russ's rookie season. And that was before the LOB was the LOB.

In your ranking Russ is the best QB in his tier.

Yeah it's debatable. That's why I think in each tier, it basically comes down to personal preference which QB is better than which. But there is a gap between tiers.

Like wilson, he's gotten to play in one of if not the most stable nfl franchise in terms of talent and overall stability. He also has scattershot accuracy and is basically a hot/cold chucker.

He does seem to have that mental edge though. And when he's hot, he's tough to beat

I'd switch romo and luck. Luck turns it over alot still and romo has been a badass for years.

Yeah yeah, playoff choker Yada yada

It sucks because there haven't exactly been alot of new guys at that level right away coming in.

You left this important piece of information out.

This could be because Russell Wilson holds onto the football Longer than 2.90 seconds avg per snap that his OL gives him.

http://bit.ly/1vBeLqh

I'd bump Wilson to tier 2 and lower Luck to tier 2 as well.

Romo and Brees have legitimate cases to be in tier 1. Brees just had a down year and Romo had an incredible year. Depends on your opinion, I suppose.

You're ****ing stupid.

Is it supposed to be a negative that a guy does a good job of extending the play?

In the next paragraph it states that his QB rating when he throws the ball quickly (in less than 2.5 seconds) is the highest in the league.

" When Wilson does get rid of the ball quickly (2.5 seconds or less), he actually has the top QB rating in the league (113.2) and a gaudy 73.9% completion rate.

When he holds on to the ball 2.6 seconds or longer (54% of his dropbacks) his QB rating (75.7) plummets to 17th in the league."

Many hate Alex for this and say that it's just screen passes and short passes. The same should apply.

And yet he's still TOP TEN IN YARDS PER COMPLETION EVERY YEAR.

Give it a rest. He and Alex are not similar.

We"d probably just end up drafting two more Eric Fishers, so ya why not

Just because he's "better" than those guys doesn't mean he's a Tier 2 player.

There's no way in the world I'd give up two first round picks for a 5'10 game manager that's had the best defense and running game in the NFC since his career began.

The Browns, Skins and Titans were all top 7 in yards per completion.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/st...mpletion/2014/

Hooray!

Irrelevant.

We're talking about two players. We're comparing them.

You want to know why one is successful and the other shitbird is 10-12 in his last 22 games?

Yards per completion has a lot to ****ing do with it.

That was in response to King's post claiming Wilson was the 10-12th best QB.

Even if you agree with his ranking, he's got to be top 10 at worst.

Hmm. You mean to tell me that his passer rating goes down when he faces pressure? That is a crazy concept. I can't wrap my head around it.

yup
no money for the D or O line
and then we see how 'leet he is

here's where the coaching comes in
if Carol hadn't called a pass and just ran the ****ing ball
they would be Superbowl champs

coaches all wanna be offensive geniuses and that means throwing the ball even if it's a stupid ****ing call

if you have a Marshawn Lynch or Jamal Charles you ****ing pound the rock
not try to make some game manager in to Joe Montana

Wilson's somewhat difficult to judge because essentially everything around him is in place for him to succeed. And sure, he's not a Matt Cassel/Ryan Fitzpatrick/Andy Dalton kind of "Shit the Bed" guy, but he's never been "Elite" in terms of yardage and TD's.

Now, maybe that changes this year with the addition of Jimmy Graham or maybe it just further solidifies that everything around him is great.

All of that said, I'd be very weary of giving up multiple first rounders and a massive pay hike.

They're all difficult to judge because football isn't played in a vacuum.

I've already tried to outline some things that are less than favorable for Wilson. As far as receiving threats go, he's gotten the short end of the stick more often than not. Doug Baldwin, Sidney Rice, Jermaine Kearse, Heath Miller, Luke Willson, and a gimped up, unavailable Percy Harvin. Golden Tate is really the only guy he's thrown the ball to that was really worth his salt. He's also dealt with some serious offensive line woes.

Essentially the same issues Alex Smith gets a pass for on this site, people are not giving credit to Wilson for. "Well I'd take their receivers over ours!!!" / Really? Is Doug Baldwin, Jermaine Kearse, and Luke Willson any better than Dwayne Bowe, Avery/Wilson, and Kelce?

You'd be hard pressed to find a top 10 QB with a worse receiver/TE combo than Wilson.

I've stated it time and time again. I give absolutely zero ****s for total passing yards. I think that is easily the most overrated QB stat of all stats.

I care about QBs that make big plays in big moments while playing efficiently most everywhere else.. And that basically describes Wilson.

The guy threw 26 TDs his rookie season, 26 TDs again his sophomore season, and just threw for 20 in a "down" year. He did that all while having one of the lowest attempt totals of any QB over the past three seasons. The guy is ultra efficient.

Ha. So now, even if he puts up stats this year, it's only because he has Jimmy Graham. Got it.

Seriously ... Russell and Andrew ... Peyton and Tom all over again. One guy gets every excuse in the book while the other guy gets shit on for everything.

Funny thing. Super bowl teams usually do have good players around their QB. Wilson is a stud. I wish we had him. I know I'd give two firsts easily.

Yeah, who needs a legit, young qb.

I'm guessing you would rather draft guys like Eric Fisher and Dee Ford.

This seems to be CP today. Either you want our QB to die of flaming AIDS or you want the team to suck.

Historically, the first has never won a Super Bowl. Never. The highest any QB has taken as a percentage of the cap is 13%, Steve Young, back in the first year of free agency.

http://overthecap.com/super-bowl-tit...-quarterbacks/


% of Cap Spent on SB Winning QB

Year Name Cap %
1994 Young 13.1%
1995 Aikman 6.7%
1996 Favre 10.2%
1997 Elway 5.2%
1998 Elway 5.0%
1999 Warner 1.3%
2000 Dilfer 1.6%
2001 Brady 0.47%
2002 Johnson 9.6%
2003 Brady 4.4%
2004 Brady 6.3%
2005 Roethlisberger 4.9%
2006 P. Manning 10.4%
2007 E. Manning 9.2%
2008 Roethlisberger 6.8%
2009 Brees 8.3%
2011 E. Manning 11.7%
2012 Flacco 6.6%
2013 Wilson 0.56%

Threads like this make me want to root for the Broncos and Raiders.

No, being a ****ing asshole makes you root for them.

I'd give em 2 firsts and Alex Smith for Russel Wilson RIGHT NOW.

I think we would have a fighters chance at going undefeated if we had him.

The speed in this WR core and backfield paired with Russels ability and confidence in the deep ball would seriously open up this offense.

If you had to choose which deal would you take?

Russell Wilson for 3 first round picks

Or

Andrew Luck for 3 first round picks?

Imagine if we had Aaron Rodgers?

Well, Flacco and Wilson both have a SB win. And Flacco was able to beat SF. Ha!

No thanks. Most overrated player in the league.

So, the same group that bitch about giving up draft picks for a QB instead of drafting our own, are actually bitching about those who would not give up draft picks for a QB?

LMAO

I'd take Andrew Luck for 5 before I'd take Russel for 3

I'd take Luck over Wilson as well but it's pretty close for me. I'm only taking Luck because of size, too.

Slow down there. I like Wilson but undefeated is pretty crazy talk.

I think we'd win 12-14 with Wilson and I have us at 9-12 with Alex. I'd have us at 11-13 with Luck.

LMAO Okay

Especially considering it wasn't even close to being done in Seattle.

I would only because the Chiefs suck at drafting for the most part.

If I was a fan of a team that could draft and retain talent well, then **** no.

True, but salary structures have changed so dramatically for QBs that historical data doesn't mean much. Plus...there is some shady shit going on with Brady's contract. Lets be honest here. He isn't taking pay cuts out of the goodness of his heart. Dude has been made some serious handshake promises if you ask me.

You've been listening to Hootie.

The real question is this -- would a guy who values winning above everything else, and has a wife who is worth 10x as much as he is anyway, be willing to take "only" $10 million, instead of $20 million, per year, in order to win more? The answer to that is -- sure, maybe.

It's not like he's making $100k. It's not like he hasn't banked like $100 million or whatever in his career. The dude obviously has more money than he can ever spend in his lifetime, or his kids, so what does he care about? More money, or winning?


EDIT: Sorry, not 10x. Only a little less than 3x. Brady's rough net worth is $120 million, while Gisele's is $320 million. So together, nearly half a billion. Why the crap would he care about banking an extra ten million per year instead of winning? It's not like he can't endorse another product if he wants to make bank. Not like he can't do whatever after his career is over and make bank...

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/cou...-gi-net-worth/

Gimme a break.

You really believe that?

I'm not going to factor in Tom or Peyton since they are on their last legs, but after them, there is only really 1 tier of ELITE QB's we have left right now, and it is :

Rodgers
Luck
Wilson

Chiefs 1st round picks since 2000:

Sylvester Morris
TRENT GREEN
Ryan Sims
Larry Johnson
Junior Siavii (early 2nd)
Derrick Johnson
Tamba Hali
Glenn Dorsey
Branden Albert
Tyson Jackson
Eric Berry
Jonathan Baldwin
Dontari Poe
Eric Fisher
Dee Ford
Marcus Peters

You wanna try and tell me you'd take any 2 of those guys over Russell Wilson? 3? 4?

Tim Duncan got some kind of side deal too?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ball-d...5938--nba.html