I'll say no more on the Berry argument. I've said my piece and provided some numbers. I'm not going to change any minds..

But what Dane said is laughable. He'd have taken Okung at #5 with Branden Albert on the roster? Iupati, a guard, at #5? Pouncey, another interior lineman, who we'd be paying $10 mil per year for currently?

Give me a break.

What do the Chiefs do w/ the extra cap space?
 

No, I didn't have the resources to go back and fine-tune the stats to when it was Berry and only Berry covering them.

That's just an overall look. Of course we didn't have Berry covering the TE 100% of snaps but it was just about as often as you could imagine.

That's why Berry was in the box. To help in run support and have more access to the TE.

I really wish I had All-22...

Ya exactly. Paying a $60 million contract to a rookie olineman is crazy.

Paying that much to ANY rookie is ****ing crazy and I'm glad it doesn't happen anymore.

Seriously. We were going to pay a ridiculous amount for any player we drafted that high in the last year of the old CBA. TE, S, G..

Just for confirmation-- How much of our 8-9 million in current space could be rolled over to next offseason?

I feel like with camp just about to start they probably aren't going to be signing any possible starters. I could be wrong, but our system is complex enough for those who have been here awhile.

I don't think Berry was at all a bad pick. But is he as good as we think he is? Or is he just a good player? We know his athleticism is off the charts. Plenty of reasonable excuses for why he didn't perform great. But sooner or later, that has to translate on the field. I hope he comes back healthy and proves that. But until then, he's probably better than his critics say but still really unproven to call him a great player.

I didn't say "I'd take him". I answered YOUR question, which was Okung or Berry.

I'd have taken neither and would have chosen Haden.

That wasn't my question. I never asked that.

I wish the search function was still operational. I'd really like to see your posts prior to that draft calling for us to draft Haden.

I doubt he was banging the table for Haden back then because we had Flowers and Carr.

We still need help at WR, T, and G.

We know there's a decent T out there and as camp goes on someone will cut an affordable WR...

So teams don't need three CB's?

You're right, my bad. It was this guy:

Who's the decent tackle still available?

I feel like it could be a result of the team effort in nickel and dime packages. Partly b/c we didn't seem to miss him.

Also, if Branch stays healthy...

I don't think there any quality veterans left that the Chiefs should sign. They appear to have a very solid 90 roster at this point and the starters should come from this squad, not a street free agent, IMO.

I'd take a run at Reggie Wayne.

Kendricks for a 4th that could turn to a 3rd.

Call the 9ers about vernon

Hell yes to Kendricks.

No thanks to Vernon.

You could be right. I'll keep this debate in mind. Hopefully we can revisit it in the future when I have more information. You've got me curious now.

Anyway, I'm pretty excited about Branch. It's such a big if, but if he can stay healthy, he could be a great addition. As is, he's basically a no-risk signing. All he has to do is be average and he's already outplayed his contract.

I saw a breakdown of a game where he shadowed Gronkowski all game and did a tremendous job.

Why? H8m and kelce would be awesome

What's his contract look like?

No clue

His cap hit this year is $6.9 million. If we traded for him....SF would be on the hook for his signing bonus. So his base salary is $4.3 million.

We had no good safeties. We needed a good one.

And a top safety was there. Unfortunately we had a reeruned coaching staff that changed his position and neutered his talent.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/7...ey-spend-it-on

Kansas City Chiefs now have cap space; who should they spend it on?

The Kansas City Chiefs now have more than $8 million in cap space following the Justin Houston contract. They don't have to spend any of the money. But if they did, here are three options.

Evan Mathis

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Evan Mathis rumors continue as Pro Bowler says &#39;There&#39;s no point in rushing&#39; <a href="http://t.co/fxk76kFL4z">http://t.co/fxk76kFL4z</a> <a href="http://t.co/wTzQsvpvBD">pic.twitter.com/wTzQsvpvBD</a></p>&mdash; Kevin Nogle (@thephinsider) <a href="https://twitter.com/thephinsider/status/621768601608044546">July 16, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Mathis is one that Chiefs fans have talked about. It should be noted that Andy Reid said earlier this offseason that the Chiefs were NOT pursuing Mathis. That was back before the Justin Houston deal when the Chiefs had little cap space. So with a little more money, would the Chiefs be interested in Mathis?

James Jones

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">James Jones: Bunch of teams out there like <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash">#Chiefs</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Giants?src=hash">#Giants</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Jaguars?src=hash">#Jaguars</a>, &amp; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Seahawks?src=hash">#Seahawks</a> that fit me. I just want to play &amp; it&#39;s a waiting game.</p>&mdash; SiriusXM NFL Radio (@SiriusXMNFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/SiriusXMNFL/status/609391757097172992">June 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Jones said this back in June. It's not clear if the Chiefs actually contacted him or he's just positioned himself as a fit for the Chiefs. Jones was a 2007 third round pick by Green Bay so Chiefs GM John Dorsey is familiar with him. Jones played last year with another former Packers exec: Oakland GM Reggie McKenzie.

Reggie Wayne

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Reggie Wayne tells media teams have shown interest and he intends to play in 2015. Guessing it will be for a contender.</p>&mdash; Mike Chappell (@mchappell51) <a href="https://twitter.com/mchappell51/status/622058844122841088">July 17, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It's not clear if the Chiefs would be one of those teams. I'm not really sure how much Wayne, 36, has left in the tank. If the price is right, I'd be interested in an offseason flyer to see what he has left but I wouldn't count on it.

Ace Sanders was cut by the Jaguars

We weren't ever going to take Haden. The choice was between Berry & Okung. Everybody loved the pick.

What do the Chiefs do w/ the extra cap space?
 

Deleted

This. Berry was the only 1st round pick in the last decade worth rejoicing over.

"Oh noes, Berry got cancer; what a bad investment"!

Some people are just ****ing sad.

And let me remind you:

10 healthy Eric Berry's today, right now, aren't taking Alex Smith anywhere NEAR a championship.

zero chance at him

I think Mathis wants to miss some of camp.

James Jones or Reggie Wayne and Jermaine Gresham.

So, Berry has been worth $60 million?

How many games has the $60 million man won?

It odd: Most people were late to realize the Cassel's $60 million was a waste, yet at the same time, defend Berry although he never single handedly won a single game.

Please explain.

No thanks to Reggie Wayne. Too old.

Yeah, it was a great investment.

:facepalm:

Say what you will about Hootie, but he as right.

One-year deal?
Could be valuable to have him provide an example for the young hopefuls.

:facepalm:

Berry is like the expensive painting that a man buys for his children to paint over.

Berrys been an All-Pro player whereas Cassel was a fraud.

No thanks to Wayne or Jones. Too old. Mathis maybe. Makes most sense of the three.

Pretty much this.

And Dane, life happens. If Berry were healthy and playing today, could you not say that the defense is on its way to uber-elite?

Sean Taylor is a better comparison, IMO

Football is a team sport. There isn't a player alive or dead that has ever single handedly won a single game.

For the record, I'm not saying Berrys the greatest safety. But he isn't a problem nor a guy we should be complaining about money wise.

It's almost like, "we're so close, we could do this....but Berry".

Dumb.

Alex Smith is still the QB. #****-****-****ity-****ed.

Berry is a top ten safety in this league. yeah, he was overpaid due to no fault of his own or the Chiefs.

We are, without a doubt, better with him on the field than off.

You wana bitch? Bitch about the oline that can't protect and the WR core that can't get open. Those are your two options.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the Lions converted Barry Sanders to FB after drafting him, and he performed in that role at a level equal to Tony Richardson.

His career would have been a major disappointment, even though he would have been one of the best FBs in the league, in spite of the fact that he was undersized for the position.

That is essentially what has happened with Berry.
He's listed as a safety, and we refer to him as a box safety, but for all intents and purposes, he has primarily been used as a LB.

He has done an outstanding job in that role, even though he is undersized for that role.
But he has/had the speed and athletic ability to be a difference maker playing over the top, and because of that, through no fault of his own, he has been a disappointment.

2013 was a very good defense too. Houston and Hali getting injured is what ****ed it up.
Posted via Mobile Device

Really, Eric Berry and Earl Thomas might be illustrations of how coaching affects careers.

Thomas thrives in a scheme that puts him in position to succeed.
Berry excels in a scheme that puts him in position to fail.

Game changing players certainly exist.

Just like the QB that has numerous 4th quarter comebacks, there are defensive players that have made plays to win or seal victories multiple times as well.

Earl Thomas would have been the best regardless.

Your opinion, which I disagree with, and which can not be proven either way.

Based on last year's performance, I'm not sure that Berry's presence would make a difference.

I also believe that the Chiefs defense is elite, without Berry, and there would be very, very few teams that wouldn't swap for their talent and coaching.

Spend it on Weed for Dwayne Bowe

So you think Berry is better than Earl Thomas and Earl Thomas is only good/better because of coaching/scheme?

He was good in college and was a Texas prospect no different than Derrick Johnson or Jamaal Charles. And people think both of those guys are some of the best at their position. If you take off the Chiefs homer glasses, the guy is the better player.

When Earl Thomas first got to Seattle they were TERRIBLE and he carried that crappy defense his rookie season. He was playing next to a washed up Lawyer Milloy, an old Marcus Trufant, a bunch of other nobodies. Lofa Tatupu, Aaron Curry and David Hawthorne were the LBers. Absolute bums.

He was literally the only good player on defense for them that year.

Again?

Yep

No. I am not saying that Earl Thomas is only good because of coaching scheme.

I am saying that Berry, in a role that allowed him to take advantage of his ability and talent would be viewed as equal, at the least.

I would also say that if their roles were reversed, there is no way that Earl Thomas performs at the evel that Berry has.

Game changing players isn't what you typed.

so you don't think if the Chiefs had Earl Thomas instead of Kendrick Lewis and a Scrub SS alongside him and Seattle at ???? FS + Eric Berry during those crappy Chiefs years that Thomas wouldnt be better?

I still think he would be better even here.

Eric Berry was a playmaking safety his first 2 years at Tennessee and showed the ability to not only consistently take the ball away, but to also take it to the house on big returns.

He tested off the charts at the combine and earned his draft position by showing he could do everything.

The guy should have been used like Brian Dawkins was in Philly. By utilizing him the way the team has, they minimized his ability to impact the passing game.

No. I'm saying that if you dropped Earl Thomas in the box, he would be a bust.

And what if the Chiefs would have just put Berry at FS like they should have?

And shortened his career as well.

Herm was right. The day after we drafted him (maybe it was a couple days) I tweeted Herm where he should play and Herm tweeted me back that Berry should be a FS.

Not like a few of us called that one, either.

The Kiffins ruined that not the Chiefs.

A SS in safety in a cover 2 is far different from a box safety, though even a cover 2 scheme isn't the best use of his talent.

Oh bullshit. One ****ing year in college doesn't immediately require the team that drafts you to keep you there. Romeo was a ****ing idiot.

Monte started the misuse and Crennel continued it.

Ancient coaches trying to emphasize stopping the run first and foremost...like the NFL is still based on strong running games that open up the pass.

Berrys freshman and Soph years at Tennesee:

158 tackles
10.5 TFLS
3 sacks
12 ints
465 int return yards
3 tds
22 pass defended
2 fumble recoveries
55 fumble return yards
1 forced fumble

He was just a turnover magnet and a scoring machine

Then Kiffen took over and made him a box safety

87 tavkles
7tfls
0 sacks
2 ints
7 yards
0tds
2 FR
1 ff

It's OBVIOUS which useage of Berry provided the most impact.

And then Romeo kept him there because they had Jon McGraw to play at FS and didn't want to start Langford at SS. The smart move would have been to keep Berry at FS and find a serviceable SS to plug in.

Should have found a way to keep Pollard around as the box safety.

I don't think it puts him in a position to fail. His athleticism makes him an elite talent for a Ryan ss. Ed reed dominated in this role early in his career. If Berry has great football iq, he can be a big time difference maker. Either his football iq doesn't show because he's had to cover up for bad talent, or he's overrated. I hope it's the former of the 2 but we have to see it on the field.

As I've said before, in almost every Ryan defense right now, the better athlete at safety has been put at ss.