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Mr. Laz 11-05-2015 09:43 PM

Alex Gordon’s storied time with the Royals coming to an end
Veteran left-fielder will be a free agent Friday night
Royals likely won’t match his price on the open market

[email protected]
BY SAM MELLINGER
[email protected]

The championship came late Sunday night and the parade on a beautiful Tuesday afternoon. Baseball moves fast, so already, in the same week, Friday is Alex Gordon's last day with the Royals.

The team's longest tenured player is a free agent, starting at 11 pm Friday, and after that his connection with the Royals will be limited to contract negotiations and then, barring what would be a significant surprise, fond memories. Because Gordon will most likely be playing somewhere else next year, which will be weird — weird for him, weird for his family, weird for the Royals — but this is the way baseball works.

Ned Yost, the Royals' manager, calls Gordon the perfect ballplayer. Dayton Moore, the general manager, has said that his proudest professional experience with a player has been Gordon's path from superstar prospect to temporary bust to franchise cornerstone — and Moore said that before Gordon helped lead the Royals to an American League pennant last year and a world championship this week.

Moore is a sentimental man. He often talks about the importance of baseball in the community, particularly with kids, and means it as a compliment when he says someone "plays with a boyish innocence." Gordon is, in many ways, the defining player of Moore's time in Kansas City. This is a complicated situation, then, because the Royals have money to spend this offseason and Gordon figures to be in line for a contract worth between $15 million and $20 million annually over five years.

So what Moore said shortly after a season-ending press conference on Thursday is worth reading into. He was asked specifically about potential negotiations with Gordon, perhaps his favorite Royal of all-time.

"You keep it professional," Moore said. "Business is business. You do the right thing. It's about the Kansas City Royals."

This is significant, because the Royals, for perhaps the first time, are potentially positioned to win the negotiations for a player of Gordon's caliber. Assuming owner David Glass keeps with his policy of putting profits back into the team, a franchise record payroll could grow from $112 million in 2015 to $130 million or more in 2016.

In addition, the Royals have $40 million coming off the books in expiring contracts or likely non-tender candidates, which is only partially offset by about $25.5 million in contracted raises, buyouts, and estimated increases in salary arbitration.

The money coming off includes Gordon, Alex Rios, Jeremy Guthrie, and Greg Holland, who made $8.25 million in 2015 and is a candidate to be non-tendered and then signed to a multiple-year contract to cover his rehab from Tommy John surgery and return to baseball in 2017.

The $25 million in raises includes contract raises for players like Edinson Volquez, Wade Davis, and Eric Hosmer, as well as estimated raises through arbitration for players like Lorenzo Cain, Mike Moustakas and Danny Duffy.

Moore said he doesn't have a budget for next year yet, which is normal at this point. But if these numbers are close, the Royals are well-positioned for the offseason. Moore's message, however, is consistent — prudence, patience, and smart spending rather than a shopping spree.

"We don't want to put ourselves in compromising positions," he said. "We don't want to be vulnerable going forward where we don't have flexibility. We don't want to end up as one of those organizations that's made foolish decisions or signed players to overly aggressive contracts, which I've done in the past. I've learned from that."

When Moore talks about "overly aggressive contracts," he means more in terms of length than size. The Royals caught a break when Gil Meche made what might be an unprecedented decision to retire and walk away from the last year of a five-year, $55 million contract. The Royals reinvested that money in the farm system, most notably in signing Raul Mondesi, now the team's top prospect. It would be foolish to expect that type of fortune again.

It is nearly impossible to imagine the Royals meshing this pledge for prudence with Gordon's price on the open market, which is certain to be bigger than any contract the franchise has ever signed — and likely to be much bigger.

He turns 32 in February, and even going into last offseason, team officials mentioned wanting to massage their roster in a way to lessen the stress on Gordon's body. He played only 104 games last year, slowed by a wrist injury in the spring and a groin injury in the summer.

Rival scouts notice less speed around the bases, and less ground covered in the outfield. He is still a very good player, but time takes its toll on all professional athletes.

Gordon's place in Royals history is secure. He is the team's best player since George Brett, a lock for the team's Hall of Fame, and as good a case as anyone else to be just the fourth man whose number the team retires.

His ties to Kansas City are real — though he no longer lives here in the offseason — and might motivate him to take slightly less money. But to stay here, he would have to take such a smaller contract that Moore and his assistants know they need to make other plans.

His story with the Royals is beautiful. He went to games in Kansas City as a kid, and has a brother named after Brett. He was drafted by the local team, and after working through some professional struggles, came to help lead them from decades of futility to the top of the baseball world. That kind of thing doesn't happen all the time in professional sports. That's worth remembering, and celebrating.

Because the story that does happen all the time in professional sports is coming. It's the one about an athlete signing an enormous contract, one the Royals are unlikely to match.

Sam Mellinger: 816-234-4365, @mellinger

mr. tegu 11-05-2015 09:49 PM

Everyone already had assumed we won't match a max contract if it gets huge. We aren't relying on outbidding anyone.

KevB 11-05-2015 10:14 PM

I believe that article was essentially a plant from the front office. They're resigned to losing him, and they're putting it out there so fans aren't as shocked when he goes elsewhere. They must feel strongly that teams are going to give Alex 4/5 years, and we were probably hoping for 3 years. I can't imagine Alex wearing another uniform, it pisses me off to think about actually. But I can't disagree if we don't sign him to a 5 year deal.

tk13 11-05-2015 10:18 PM

I don't know if it's a plant, but at best, it reflects what someone in the front office has told Mellinger privately. They know it's going to be a PR blow.

Dayton and Yost had their end of year press conference today, and Moore was pretty specific in saying his philosophy is to pay for future production, not past performance. I wouldn't be surprised if the Royals would go 4.... that's through his 35 year old season. But I can see them not liking a 5 or 6 year deal. Especially if they hope to try and re-sign some of the younger guys on the team.

Kidd Lex 11-05-2015 10:20 PM

I too believe the story was a plant - but letting him walk is the right move for anything >4/80 imo. So.... He gone.

I'm not happy, but I'm good with it from an organizational health standpoint.

Pitt Gorilla 11-05-2015 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The GMDM Hypothesis (Post 11866167)
I too believe the story was a plant - but letting him walk is the right move for anything >4/80 imo. So.... He gone.

I'm not happy, but I'm good with it from an organizational health standpoint.

Agreed. We can't afford another infante situation, especially at a higher salary. I'm not saying that Gordon will regress like Omar, but a long term deal hurts our chances with the next wave. We just have To hope we can find someone to come close to his production.

mr. tegu 11-05-2015 10:39 PM

I truly believe we need Gordon if we want to be a serious threat to win the world series again. We haven't done great getting good RF production lately from outside sources and the thought of having to fill two outfield spots with unknowns is not very exciting or encouraging.

Brock 11-05-2015 11:05 PM

they're going to do things on the cheap. Can't really complain about it, it worked. Somehow.

RealSNR 11-05-2015 11:37 PM

Maybe we'll get lucky and Infante will retire.

okcchief 11-05-2015 11:47 PM

Alex can obviously get more elsewheee, but I'm hoping being a Royal and playing with this team keeps him here. If not, I appreciate what he's done and good luck

Kidd Lex 11-06-2015 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 11866215)
they're going to do things on the cheap. Can't really complain about it, it worked. Somehow.

Wrong - 29th largest market with 16th largest payroll.

Bootlegged 11-06-2015 05:35 AM

OF
L - Parra
C - Cain
R - Fowler

3b - Moose
SS - Esky
2b - Infate
1b - Hoz
C - Salvy

P
Gallardo
Volquez
Medlin
Ventura
?

BP
Hoch
Herrera
Davis
Duffy

Sassy Squatch 11-06-2015 05:36 AM

I can't be the only one that thinks Dyson would do just fine in LF.

kcjayhawks5 11-06-2015 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superturtle (Post 11866316)
I can't be the only one that thinks Dyson would do just fine in LF.

Defensively he'd be okay but I wouldn't want him in the lineup everyday

ChiliConCarnage 11-06-2015 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The GMDM Hypothesis (Post 11866167)
I too believe the story was a plant - but letting him walk is the right move for anything >4/80 imo. So.... He gone.

I'm not happy, but I'm good with it from an organizational health standpoint.

I'd be shocked if the Royals offer was 4/80. Maybe near that scale for 3 years.
4/80 is paying 1/5th or 1/6th of your payroll for a 35 year old to roam the outfield.

I like Gordon too but I doubt the Royals are going to make that kind of offer.

Lex Luthor 11-06-2015 06:43 AM

Cardinals were fine after Pujols left. Royals were fine after Shields left.

They will be fine after Gordon leaves. Trust the process.

Eleazar 11-06-2015 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13 (Post 11866102)
Oh I think there's no doubt about that... although I think he was being careful after the groin injury. He only had two SB this year too.

What's not being mentioned is his defensive WAR was way down this year. I wouldn't say it's over yet. I'd love to see us keep him, but I am very afraid someone is going to step in and give him a huge contract that is more than we all expect.

I actually think Dayton will be the bigger obstacle than Glass. They can afford to pay him huge money, but Dayton would hate the idea of paying $18-20 million for a 35 year old guy who's lost a step.

Yeah, I'm not going to be angry if he gets some crazy offer and they decide it's not the best value for the team. I get it.

Obviously, Moore has a pretty good idea of how to run a baseball team.

duncan_idaho 11-06-2015 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bootlegged (Post 11866315)
OF
L - Parra
C - Cain
R - Fowler

3b - Moose
SS - Esky
2b - Infate
1b - Hoz
C - Salvy

P
Gallardo
Volquez
Medlin
Ventura
?

BP
Hoch
Herrera
Davis
Duffy

Duffy will be back in the rotation to start the year, definitely.

Parra and Fowler are not awful pieces to try to fill in things with, and Fowler would actually fit pretty nicely hitting 2nd (switch hitter, good OBP). But it would be pretty hard to watch Gordon walk, even if it is a smart business decision.

Gaillardo makes sense given his history with Yost, but I believe he may also be eligible for a qualifying offer, which could change the outlook for KC and other teams.

seaofred 11-06-2015 08:21 AM

What about a guy like Brett Eibner or Bubba taking over one of the corner OF spots?

ChiTown 11-06-2015 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiliConCarnage (Post 11866330)
I'd be shocked if the Royals offer was 4/80. Maybe near that scale for 3 years.
4/80 is paying 1/5th or 1/6th of your payroll for a 35 year old to roam the outfield.

I like Gordon too but I doubt the Royals are going to make that kind of offer.

In a 4 year contract, he would be 35 in the last year, but you also get AG for the next couple of seasons while he is still in his prime. I would think the Royals would be all over a 4/$80MM Contract. That, IMO, would be good deal for the next 3 years and questionable in the last year of that contract.

Fansy the Famous Bard 11-06-2015 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seaofred (Post 11866417)
What about a guy like Brett Eibner or Bubba taking over one of the corner OF spots?

Eibner is basically just a guy at this point. He's been awful his entire Minor league career until this past season. Average speed at best, with limited range defensively. He's also injury-plagued. Oh and he turns 27 in a month. He isn't a prospect anymore.

Starling is such a questionmark that i wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see him in the majors for another 3-4 years, if ever. But he could also start the season THIS year with a great spring... just such a wildcard.

oldman 11-06-2015 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiTown (Post 11866429)
In a 4 year contract, he would be 35 in the last year, but you also get AG for the next couple of seasons while he is still in his prime. I would think the Royals would be all over a 4/$80MM Contract. That, IMO, would be good deal for the next 3 years and questionable in the last year of that contract.

I agree. Anything more than 4 years is a questionable business decision.

The article mentioned a drop-off in his speed. Frankly, I didn't see that except maybe on the base path. The groin injury may still be bothering him and that should be good by the time the season starts next year. Straight speed in the outfield seemed to be OK to me.

Pitt Gorilla 11-06-2015 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldman (Post 11866435)
I agree. Anything more than 4 years is a questionable business decision.

The article mentioned a drop-off in his speed. Frankly, I didn't see that except maybe on the base path. The groin injury may still be bothering him and that should be good by the time the season starts next year. Straight speed in the outfield seemed to be OK to me.

I thought he was noticeably slower in the OF as well. Several balls dropped that we would have likely caught previously.

ROYC75 11-06-2015 09:12 AM

I wonder if the loss of speed is the leg, just not 100% yet, it should be but some people don't heal as quick as they age.

He still has a few years left in the OF while if he increases his power#'s a bit, he can always DH somewhere in his later years. Being a gifted athlete, he always has the option of moving to 1st base as well.

sedated 11-06-2015 09:31 AM

INHO Gordon's speed has always been just enough to get him to the spot to make a diving catch. If he loses even a quarter step he falls to simply above average (he would still have the arm).

Brock 11-06-2015 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The GMDM Hypothesis (Post 11866291)
Wrong - 29th largest market with 16th largest payroll.

Right, but relatively cheap considering what they just accomplished.

ChiTown 11-06-2015 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla (Post 11866453)
I thought he was noticeably slower in the OF as well. Several balls dropped that we would have likely caught previously.

I, too, think he was noticeably slower after the return from his injury, but I also think a mere mortal doesn't make it back as soon as he did from the groin pull. The dude is a machine.

Great Expectations 11-06-2015 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 11866215)
they're going to do things on the cheap. Can't really complain about it, it worked. Somehow.

This is an awful way to describe what the Royals are doing. They are spending a bunch of money.

Something like this is more accurate:

They are going to spend their money wisely. They are operating in the top third of baseball in spending money, but they aren't the Dodgers and can't afford to match ridiculous offers from teams like the Dodgers. So far Dayton has spent money wisely and I trust him to do the same this year.

Fansy the Famous Bard 11-06-2015 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Expectations (Post 11866516)
This is an awful way to describe what the Royals are doing. They are spending a bunch of money.

Something like this is more accurate:

They are going to spend their money wisely. They are operating in the top third of baseball in spending money, but they aren't the Dodgers and can't afford to match ridiculous offers from teams like the Dodgers. So far Dayton has spent money wisely and I trust him to do the same this year.

I wouldn't put them in the top third. I think they are right around the middle mark.

Brock 11-06-2015 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Expectations (Post 11866516)
This is an awful way to describe what the Royals are doing. They are spending a bunch of money.

Something like this is more accurate:

They are going to spend their money wisely. They are operating in the top third of baseball in spending money, but they aren't the Dodgers and can't afford to match ridiculous offers from teams like the Dodgers. So far Dayton has spent money wisely and I trust him to do the same this year.

They're apparently 16th in spending and I don't mean they aren't spending a lot. They're not going to compete for guys who are due a big payday is all I meant.

mr. tegu 11-06-2015 09:50 AM

I hate the thought of Fowler anywhere near this team. He sucks defensively. We even saw it first hand this season.

Great Expectations 11-06-2015 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 11866529)
They're apparently 16th in spending and I don't mean they aren't spending a lot. They're not going to compete for guys who are due a big payday is all I meant.

I thought the addition of Cueto and Zobrist bumped them up to around 10 for the second half of the year.

duncan_idaho 11-06-2015 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke (Post 11866431)
Eibner is basically just a guy at this point. He's been awful his entire Minor league career until this past season. Average speed at best, with limited range defensively. He's also injury-plagued. Oh and he turns 27 in a month. He isn't a prospect anymore.



Starling is such a questionmark that i wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see him in the majors for another 3-4 years, if ever. But he could also start the season THIS year with a great spring... just such a wildcard.


Starling will either be a MLB regular by midseason 2016 or officially busted out, IMO. That gives him another season and a half at AA and AAA, and if he hasn't figured things out by then, he likely isn't going to figure them out.

I'm actually more optimistic about him than I've been in some time... He's had a good showing in the Arizona Fall League, too, after looking completely miserable, overmatched, and hopeless there last season.

Agree that he's a Wildcard. There's just as much chance, IMO, that he forces his way to the majors by midseason as he spends the whole year mired at AA. I AM encouraged by comparing his progression to that of George Springer, a similar player who had the same type of instant jump at the same age.

If he DOES end up hitting well enough to make the MLB roster by July or so, KC's OF D will get a big bump. Dyson/Cain/Starling, or Gordon/Cain/Starling, or Parra/Cain/Starling would be pretty beastly.

I think Eibner is mostly depth. He's a better defender than I think you give him credit for here (according to people I trust reviewing him - the guy did share an OF with Paulo Orlando and hold down CF). But he's a AAAA guy right now who might be a good 5th OF/Short side platoon guy.

Great Expectations 11-06-2015 10:28 AM

Did you mean 2017 on Starling?

CaliforniaChief 11-06-2015 10:34 AM

I'll put the odds of Alex returning at about 20%. I love Alex, and it would hurt to see him play for someone else, but we just can't sink huge money into what truly will be a declining player.

Gravedigger 11-06-2015 10:37 AM

Can you replace his hitting? That's what is most crucial. Can you get a clutch hitter, or a consistent Zobrist type bat. If Dayton can I say let him walk and spend the money elsewhere. Dyson is a joke as a bat, hence why he's never really cracked the lineup the last two seasons except when guys need rest. If he hit like Cain letting Gordon walk wouldn't be a question.

tk13 11-06-2015 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiliConCarnage (Post 11866330)
I'd be shocked if the Royals offer was 4/80. Maybe near that scale for 3 years.
4/80 is paying 1/5th or 1/6th of your payroll for a 35 year old to roam the outfield.

I like Gordon too but I doubt the Royals are going to make that kind of offer.

More importantly, if you're going to blow $15-20 million a year on a player, the less risky move is going after one of the younger guys like Hosmer. Not that we'll sign him, but he's much younger and part of that contract would be under a new TV deal.
Posted via Mobile Device

Valiant 11-06-2015 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13 (Post 11866159)
I don't know if it's a plant, but at best, it reflects what someone in the front office has told Mellinger privately. They know it's going to be a PR blow.

Dayton and Yost had their end of year press conference today, and Moore was pretty specific in saying his philosophy is to pay for future production, not past performance. I wouldn't be surprised if the Royals would go 4.... that's through his 35 year old season. But I can see them not liking a 5 or 6 year deal. Especially if they hope to try and re-sign some of the younger guys on the team.

And that is how you keep winning. I would only of given him a 3 year at 16 mil tops.. We need that money for Salvy, Cain and Hos.. And add a pitcher...

duncan_idaho 11-06-2015 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Expectations (Post 11866581)
Did you mean 2017 on Starling?


Yes, I did. Whoops.

That would make him 25.

tomahawk kid 11-06-2015 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiTown (Post 11866429)
In a 4 year contract, he would be 35 in the last year, but you also get AG for the next couple of seasons while he is still in his prime. I would think the Royals would be all over a 4/$80MM Contract. That, IMO, would be good deal for the next 3 years and questionable in the last year of that contract.

This^. I think, if the team is going to keep him, we're going to have to accept overpaying him for the last year or so.

Valiant 11-06-2015 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravedigger (Post 11866605)
Can you replace his hitting? That's what is most crucial. Can you get a clutch hitter, or a consistent Zobrist type bat. If Dayton can I say let him walk and spend the money elsewhere. Dyson is a joke as a bat, hence why he's never really cracked the lineup the last two seasons except when guys need rest. If he hit like Cain letting Gordon walk wouldn't be a question.

That is why I would concentrate on keeping Zobrist.. He can fill LF, until a young gun comes up that is MLB worthy. Orlando/Dyson can have RF, hopefully Orlando just turns it on and secures the spot himself.

Bootlegged 11-06-2015 11:49 AM

The Battle for Parra/Gordo replacement
 
he Detroit Tigers need pitching, lots of it — in the rotation and in the bullpen — and finding it is their main off-season priority.

But they need a leftfielder, too.

Looking at the free-agent leftfielders, the team will have a number of choices.

They could attempt a reunion with Yoenis Cespedes or try for terrific two-way player Alex Gordon. They could shell out serious money for a veteran like Ben Zobrist, whose services are coveted by 29 other teams, or settle on a platoon partner for Tyler Collins.

But if the Tigers wade into the big-money waters — Cespedes, Gordon and Zobrist will command lucrative, multiyear deals — they would all but sacrifice their chance at landing a front-line starting pitcher, one who can slot into their top three, which is general manager Al Avila's hope.

And even though the team is high on Collins, who was solid in 2015 but not spectacular enough to win the job entering 2016, the position will have to be addressed in some fashion, and most likely, a cost-effective one.

That option could be Gerardo Parra, who might be a perfect fit.

Parra, 28, hit .291 with 14 homers and 51 RBIs with the Brewers and Orioles in 2015. He swings left-handed, plays solid defense (won NL Gold Gloves in 2011 and 2013) and has one of the best arms in baseball. In seven seasons, he is a .277 career hitter.

He doesn't fit as a platoon partner with Collins — both are left-handed hitters — but Parra, who made $6.2 million in 2015, could assume the everyday role, leaving Collins as the No. 4 outfielder.

Mr. Laz 11-06-2015 12:08 PM

They are going to let Gordo and Rios walk and go with Dyson and Orlando probably.

That big money walking.

The question is whether they do that same with Zobrist and go back to Infante. :(

ChiTown 11-06-2015 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 11866828)
They are going to let Gordo and Rios walk and go with Dyson and Orlando probably.

That big money walking.

The question is whether they do that same with Zobrist and go back to Infante. :(

Wait. And you are stating that they won't get another RF and/or LF in FA to replace those guys? If so, you are batshit crazy.

duncan_idaho 11-06-2015 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 11866828)
They are going to let Gordo and Rios walk and go with Dyson and Orlando probably.

That big money walking.

The question is whether they do that same with Zobrist and go back to Infante. :(


I don't know if I buy that as a plan for the corner OF spots next year. Would be pretty weak offensively, and they've shied away from giving Dyson an everyday role when it was easier to justify (like last year, when they spent a lot on a flyer on Alex Rios).

Given that Glass is on record as saying they are trying to win again next year, not just "have a good season," I don't think I can buy a Dyson/Orlando starting LF/RF combo.

Saul Good 11-06-2015 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiTown (Post 11866842)
Wait. And you are stating that they won't get another RF and/or LF in FA to replace those guys? If so, you are batshit crazy.

I'm assuming he means those two will platoon in RF, and we will sign a LF. We can get by with that platoon in RF as long as we keep Zobrist at 2B.

teedubya 11-06-2015 12:24 PM

IMO, Gordon is gone.

Dayton pays for future production, not past performance. This is how we will sustain a dynasty.

teedubya 11-06-2015 12:25 PM

Gordon's strong work ethic has a huge influence on the team... That would suck to have that leave... #DoubleEdgeSword

ChiTown 11-06-2015 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 11866850)
I'm assuming he means those two will platoon in RF, and we will sign a LF. We can get by with that platoon in RF as long as we keep Zobrist at 2B.

Still hate that, but I suppose I could see a RF Platoon. But you are still going to need to get an everyday LF'r in Laz's scenario.

BTW, if they bring back Zobrist, he goes to RF and Omar plays 2B. They aren't going to pay him $8MM/ to play 1 or maybe 2x's per week.

duncan_idaho 11-06-2015 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 11866850)
I'm assuming he means those two will platoon in RF, and we will sign a LF. We can get by with that platoon in RF as long as we keep Zobrist at 2B.

I can buy a platoon situation with those two, especially since that leaves open spots in 2017 and beyond for an internal option, should one develop to the point he is ready.

But I read it as those two as everyday starters, and I just can't buy that.

They need a proven bat to sprinkle in there, whether its Gordon, Zobrist, or someone else.

Bootlegged 11-06-2015 12:55 PM

LF - Parra
CF - Cain
RF - Starling or FA + Dyson/Orlando

Pitt Gorilla 11-06-2015 02:03 PM

I'd really like for them to make Zobrist a priority. His versatility is a huge asset.

Saul Good 11-06-2015 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiTown (Post 11866869)
Still hate that, but I suppose I could see a RF Platoon. But you are still going to need to get an everyday LF'r in Laz's scenario.

BTW, if they bring back Zobrist, he goes to RF and Omar plays 2B. They aren't going to pay him $8MM/ to play 1 or maybe 2x's per week.

Omar gets paid either way. He's a sunk cost. Signing Zobrist to play RF makes no sense. You don't spend $15 million to upgrade RF when the same guy can plug a much bigger hole at 2B.

ChiefsCountry 11-06-2015 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 11867170)
Omar gets paid either way. He's a sunk cost. Signing Zobrist to play RF makes no sense. You don't spend $15 million to upgrade RF when the same guy can plug a much bigger hole at 2B.

This. If you are going with the Omar/Colon platoon, you better go out and get a bat for RF instead of Zobrist.

Chiefspants 11-06-2015 02:59 PM

The issue that's wearing me down about this discussion is that the people in favor of letting Gordo walk seem to be assuming that there is an easy and cost effective way to replace an .800 OPS bat in the lineup.

The reality is that we are either going to have to spend quite a bit to replace Gordo's production or accept a massive drop in quality in that spot of the lineup.

Mr. Flopnuts 11-06-2015 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefqueen (Post 11865355)
Who knows, we may need to make room for this guy...

http://m.royals.mlb.com/news/article...playing-in-afl

I had a meeting with his Aunt and Uncle about 3 weeks ago. They're pretty hopeful he'll make it next year.

ChiTown 11-06-2015 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 11867170)
Omar gets paid either way. He's a sunk cost. Signing Zobrist to play RF makes no sense. You don't spend $15 million to upgrade RF when the same guy can plug a much bigger hole at 2B.

You sign Zobrist, not just because he can play RF, but he can play multi positions.

I get sunk cost, I really do, but I gar. you that Omar will be playing 2B on opening day.

Brock 11-06-2015 03:05 PM

I don't think many people are in favor of letting him walk. I know I'm not. But the reality is the royals have a philosophy and they aren't going to change it at this point.

duncan_idaho 11-06-2015 03:16 PM

Zobrist would offer the opportunity to do the Hootie platoon (patent pending), though.

He could play RF vs. LHP, with Infante or Colon playing 2B, and play 2B vs. RHP, with Dyson playing CF and Cain getting a 1/2 day off in RF.

He makes a lot of sense. Which is why so many teams are going to chase him/he's going to be expensive.

I guess the ultimate thing to keep in mind is that the core of Hosmer/Moustakas/Perez/Morales/Cain/Escobar is strong enough to give KC a lot of options.

Chiefspants 11-06-2015 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 11867185)
I don't think many people are in favor of letting him walk. I know I'm not. But the reality is the royals have a philosophy and they aren't going to change it at this point.

That was more of a jab at the Facebook Royals fan in my feed who's saying that we should let Gordo walk and find a cheap JD Martinez like player to replace him!!1!

ChiTown 11-06-2015 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 11867198)
Zobrist would offer the opportunity to do the Hootie platoon (patent pending), though.

He could play RF vs. LHP, with Infante or Colon playing 2B, and play 2B vs. RHP, with Dyson playing CF and Cain getting a 1/2 day off in RF.

He makes a lot of sense. Which is why so many teams are going to chase him/he's going to be expensive.

I guess the ultimate thing to keep in mind is that the core of Hosmer/Moustakas/Perez/Morales/Cain/Escobar is strong enough to give KC a lot of options.

Amen!

Eleazar 11-06-2015 03:25 PM

I don't find the Mellinger article convincing at all. There's nothing there that we don't know. We know there will be crazy money out there. We know the Royals are hoping for a hometown discount. We know Gordon has seemed willing to discuss it. It'll probably just come down to how wide the difference is.

I don't see why people post that link and then resign themselves. It's just fluff.

Saul Good 11-06-2015 03:30 PM

The truth is that both Zobrist and Gordon are guys that provide great leadership by example, and there are a lot of young teams that need that kind of leadership. It's valuable. We aren't a team that needs veteran leadership, because our entire team is made up of veteran leaders who know what it takes to win.

The more I think about it, the more I think Gordon walks. We may well sign Zobrist, though. If we lose Alex, Holland, Rios, and Vargas, we should have enough money ($25,000,000 or so) left to sign another solid starting pitcher and possibly a servicable RF.

Sal
Hoz
Infante/Zobrist
Esky
Moose
Orlando/Dyson
Cain
Zobrist/?

Volquez
Ventura
Duffy
Medlen
Young?
FA?
Zimmer?

I'm not sure that's a WS caliber team, though. Infante is an albatross.

duncan_idaho 11-06-2015 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 11867219)
The truth is that both Zobrist and Gordon are guys that provide great leadership by example, and there are a lot of young teams that need that kind of leadership. It's valuable. We aren't a team that needs veteran leadership, because our entire team is made up of veteran leaders who know what it takes to win.

The more I think about it, the more I think Gordon walks. We may well sign Zobrist, though. If we lose Alex, Holland, Rios, and Vargas, we should have enough money ($25,000,000 or so) left to sign another solid starting pitcher and possibly a servicable RF.

Sal
Hoz
Infante/Zobrist
Esky
Moose
Orlando/Dyson
Cain
Zobrist/?

Volquez
Ventura
Duffy
Medlen
Young?
FA?
Zimmer?

I'm not sure that's a WS caliber team, though. Infante is an albatross.

I'm confident the payroll is going to get to $135-140 million (Moore may try to leave himself some wiggle room for a midseason acquisition). They're going to be around $97 million for 17 players if they get the payback from Vargas' insurance. That would give them around $30-40 million to work with to fill LF/RF/1 SP/1 extra player IF they go with minimum guys to fill a few bullpen spots (Michael Mariot, Brian Flynn), to fill UTIL IF (Colon) and 5th OF (Orlando).

I think that leaves enough cash to get a Gordon/Zobrist + a Mike Leake or Yovani Gallardo level SP and perhaps enough to bring back Chris Young as the swing guy, too.

If you go Zobrist, it may be enough to pick up a guy like Gerrardo Parra or Dexter Fowler to play LF, too (I know Fowler has been a slightly negative defender in CF, but his D would play up/play fine in LF).

58-4ever 11-06-2015 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 11867219)
The truth is that both Zobrist and Gordon are guys that provide great leadership by example, and there are a lot of young teams that need that kind of leadership. It's valuable. We aren't a team that needs veteran leadership, because our entire team is made up of veteran leaders who know what it takes to win.

The more I think about it, the more I think Gordon walks. We may well sign Zobrist, though. If we lose Alex, Holland, Rios, and Vargas, we should have enough money ($25,000,000 or so) left to sign another solid starting pitcher and possibly a servicable RF.

Sal
Hoz
Infante/Zobrist
Esky
Moose
Orlando/Dyson
Cain
Zobrist/?

Volquez
Ventura
Duffy
Medlen
Young?
FA?
Zimmer?

I'm not sure that's a WS caliber team, though. Infante is an albatross.

Doubt Young comes back, but you never know...

Saul Good 11-06-2015 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 11867227)
I'm confident the payroll is going to get to $135-140 million (Moore may try to leave himself some wiggle room for a midseason acquisition). They're going to be around $97 million for 17 players if they get the payback from Vargas' insurance. That would give them around $30-40 million to work with to fill LF/RF/1 SP/1 extra player IF they go with minimum guys to fill a few bullpen spots (Michael Mariot, Brian Flynn), to fill UTIL IF (Colon) and 5th OF (Orlando).

I think that leaves enough cash to get a Gordon/Zobrist + a Mike Leake or Yovani Gallardo level SP and perhaps enough to bring back Chris Young as the swing guy, too.

If you go Zobrist, it may be enough to pick up a guy like Gerrardo Parra or Dexter Fowler to play LF, too (I know Fowler has been a slightly negative defender in CF, but his D would play up/play fine in LF).

I'm thinking $130,000,000 to start the season with room to add $10-$12,000,000 more down the stretch. If your scenario is close to true (and I think it may well be), that's absolutely a roster that can compete for a championship for 2 more years.

Saul Good 11-06-2015 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58-4ever (Post 11867238)
Doubt Young comes back, but you never know...

To me, he's kind of the opposite of Gordon and Zobrist in that he has traits that the Royals value but other teams see as a liability. I'd love to see him become our crafty pitcher that just gets better with age. He's just such a great fit for our team and park.

duncan_idaho 11-06-2015 04:20 PM

John Jaso is another guy I kind of covet... Not sure his D is good enough for the Royals to consider him as the backup C, but he'd be a great backup option for Perez.

ChiTown 11-06-2015 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 11867305)
John Jaso is another guy I kind of covet... Not sure his D is good enough for the Royals to consider him as the backup C, but he'd be a great backup option for Perez.

Isn't he the guy that hit us pretty well this year? Switch hitting catchers are ALWAYS nice to have

Mr. Laz 11-06-2015 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58-4ever (Post 11867238)
Doubt Young comes back, but you never know...

I don't know, many teams might not covet "crafty" as much as the smaller market teams like the Royals need to.

I want him back, it's good to have a guy like that to switch things up.

Halfcan 11-06-2015 05:40 PM

I really hope to see Gordon back-winning Gold Gloves for the next five years. He brings so much to this team.

Why Not? 11-06-2015 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 11867305)
John Jaso is another guy I kind of covet... Not sure his D is good enough for the Royals to consider him as the backup C, but he'd be a great backup option for Perez.

Would love Jaso. Not sure he's willing to be a full time backup at this point. Would really have to sell him on a shot to win a ring and probably have to overpay.

KCCHIEFS27 11-06-2015 06:41 PM

So zobrist has said that Gordo would be the priority and he should be. But he would love it if they (him and his family) could come back. Let's hope it happens.

KCCHIEFS27 11-06-2015 06:41 PM

No thanks to Jaso.

Pitt Gorilla 11-06-2015 07:53 PM

KC played pretty well without Gordon. I think we'd be ok again.

mr. tegu 11-06-2015 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla (Post 11867527)
KC played pretty well without Gordon. I think we'd be ok again.

An argument could easily be made we don't win the world series without Gordon.

DaneMcCloud 11-06-2015 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 11867539)
An argument could easily be made we don't win the world series without Gordon.

Pure speculation.

mr. tegu 11-06-2015 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 11867541)
Pure speculation.

Well yes. But so is thinking a stretch last season means we would do the same without him over a whole season. We can't undermine his importance because of that stretch.

duncan_idaho 11-06-2015 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Why Not? (Post 11867466)
Would love Jaso. Not sure he's willing to be a full time backup at this point. Would really have to sell him on a shot to win a ring and probably have to overpay.

He'd be a better fit if they didn't have a dedicated DH in Morales, so you could get his bat in the lineup more often. But yeah, I love the plate discipline/approach. Have for a while.

tk13 11-06-2015 08:40 PM

It'd certainly be nice to be able to rest Perez more. Him and Herrera/Davis have logged a ton of extra miles the last two years because we've played so late into the year. I'm guessing Ned goes easy on all three for stretches next year.


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