TOs are pretty much on par with TDs.

Sucks in the pros against it too....which in the end if it doesn't improve it means he sucks

The released Clayken hath been slayed

yeah you got me boy

the Raiders should trade Carr and 2 1sts for Alex right NOW

Not a bannable offense. I'm glad he's back. It's the hungry fish that make it great.

You are so terrible at debate. So very terrible.

Arguing that a QB in his 11th year had fewer turnovers than a QB in his 2nd year isn't a legitimate argument that the former is better than the latter.

Especially when his ASTRONOMICAL turnover amount was less than 20. ROFL

But this fan base has been conditioned to value low turnovers > EVERYTHING ELSE at the QB position. Sad.

Not really. A TD is a guaranteed 6 while a turnover isn't necessarily guaranteed to result in points for the other team.

You did realize that whoever wins the turnover battle wins around 70% of the time though right?

Carr is a "slinger" while not being a game manager.

Smith is a game manager while not being a "slinger."

QFT

It an apples and oranges argument, anyway.

Put Alex in Oakland and he would surely have more turnovers.

Unless you think it would be business as usual for him with the worst running game and a terrible defense. LMAO

No, he'd be Alex.

I completely understand Alex being him some Alex under a short leash in SF.

Here in KC He's the guy. He's in stone. He has nothing to worry about.

THROW THE ****ING FOOTBALL...

I am aware.

Just saying I disagreed with his assessment and cited my reasoning as to why.

Actually it is. How long a player has been in the league has no bearing on how good they are right now. Now you can certainly make the point that that Carr may be better going forward as he gets experience. But if we're talking how good they are currently it's definitely a valid point.

I wonder what the winning percentage is of teams that score more TD's than their opponent. Would be interesting to see, we always hear that turnover stat, but I've never seen a TD version.

I think he means the rate. I could be wrong.

IE if a QB passes for 35TDs you could/should expect him to have more picks than a QB that passed for 17TDs. Obviously the elite of the elite are the exception.

Generally to get high TDs you have to gamble and take risks to get some of those, and with those risks come more INTs. A lot of the offensive approach has to do with the strengths and weaknesses of the overall team.

Like Andrew Luck. He gets a lot of flack for his INTs but his D sucks so he has to make more drives count then say an Alex Smith or whoever the Broncos QB is this year, who can take a more cautious approach and pick and choose their battles knowing they have the lead, let the D do their thing, and maybe the next possession will be more favorable.

Andy Reid doesnt need Smith taking unnecessary risks when hes got a strong running game and defense thats the safer way to dictate the pace of the game more often than not. The colts dont have that luxury most of the time so turning Luck into a game manager isnt going to produce better results in the W L column. Still, QBs on teams that ask more of them still have to perform up to the level that is expected, so when they dont they still deserve a lot of the blame. Either their cut out to be a gunslinger or not. Failed gunslingers sometimes find success as game managers on well balanced teams later in their careers.

You can still score without turning the ball over, hence why our ball control offense was still top 10 in ppg, while the Raiders were 17th.

Yep.
Thing is though, turnovers go down with experience.
Carr's TO's will decrease.
Will Smith's TDs increase?

What a stupid thing to say. There's no way of knowing that whatsoever. In fact, I'd imagine it's quite the opposite. Guys who are turnover machines usually don't change much. What happens when a QB who struggles with pressure no longer has a great OL? If Carr is a turnover machine now, he could be ****ed when the Raiders have to pay him/Mack/Cooper, and can't just go get the top FA OL every other year.

3rd year pro QB whose QBR has trended up in his first two years and is widely held to be a future franchise QB.
32 TDs on 13 INTs last year.
Imagine he was a Chief with his first two years that look like this and tell me what you would say:

Year YDS TD INT Rating
2015 3,987 32 13 91.1
2014 3,270 21 12 76.6

:homer:

You should read this edited version.

You always say Ford will get better with no evidence but Carr won't?

And I agree.

I've never said anything definitively about Ford. I'm sorry that I'm not an impatient whiny bitch about him like you and want to give him more than a half a season worth of starts before I give up on him.

As for Carr, I'm not saying that there's no hope, or that he can't get better. I'm saying we don't know whether the turnovers will decrease, just like I'm not aware if Ford will improve.

We literally just went through this shit less that a year ago with Fisher and look at where we are at now.

Also, everything you just said in that edit could be applied to a young Hali.

That PPG stat is a pretty solid one to base an argument on.

Carr has an overwhelmingly higher potential at this point. He's got the most TD's of any QB in their first 2 years and has actually done something. Ford got 3 sacks on a backup OT.

Ford has been in the NFL for 3 years now and he can't make a basic read on a run play to keep contain.

Carr is by far a better player than Ford right now and it's not even close.

This is basically what I meant but it was worded incorrectly so....

Reading is fundamental:

To be clear, I'm obviously not comparing Carr and Ford on the same level here. Carr has clearly already proven he belongs as a starter, while Ford has yet to do that.

Also, it's been 3 years? One preseason game and he's already done with year 3? Interesting.

He's off to a really bad start for a 3rd year player staylor. Even Andy agreed by subtling saying he played like shit last weekend.

Guys like Ingram, Hughes and Mercilus didn't break out till year 4, but you want me to give up on a Ford when he has significantly less real game experience than those guys did going into year 3?

That's mostly due to our defense and special teams setting the offense up with favorable field position.

Of course it's also easier to set the offense up with good field position when the offense is punting & giving the defense a long field to defend.

you da real MVP

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&w=350&h=254

KC is first in starting field position per drive.

somehow a thread about david carr turns into dee ford

but it's all my fault rite guyz

Why? Not sure what your asking. Why I would take Carr in the long run but take Smith this year? I just think Carr has a higher ceiling. Hes only has two years experience. Maybe he stinks it up and never becomes anything, but so far I think the higher probability is he improves to some degree over his career and Id bank when he does plateau he will be a better QB than what Smith is right now in his golden years.

Smith to me is a good game manager. Maybe even the league standard right now for game managers. Thats great when everything is firing on all cylinders, but things dont always go as planned. Especially when advancing in the playoffs. Sometimes you need the one guy that touches the ball every play make something happen NOW. Not some clock killing 6 minute drive with 7 minutes left down by two scores. Its not his fault, thats just not his game. Things didnt go perfect that day and when that happens hes just not the guy to make something big happen to sway the momentum back in your favor. He didnt crack, or screw up, he stayed true to his game and marched them down the field in typical fashion. Even made the final score look good, but he had no chance of actually winning the game.

He did until Knile Davis fumbled it away.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...50af12e2df.png

Yeah bro. He was slinging it......



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And by the offense not putting the defense in bad positions.... But you always forget that. Just like when Alex arrived you swore he wouldn't have a top 10 defense to rescue him, yet here you are slurping the defense. Guess Alex is just so lucky since 2011 to have a top 10 defense at his disposal that he in no way shape or form helps. Am I rite?


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We don't have an elite d like Denver to carry a game manager.

He could really help them by scoring more points

Not arguing that point at all....


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3-39-1

Thats my point. The fumble happened at the start of the 3rd. Too big a mistake for this team to overcome. It stinks when a fumble in the 3rd QTR is the dagger in the back in a relatively close game. The Pats merely held serv the rest of the way. Thats why longrun Id take Carr, etc over a proven consistent game manager. It wasnt Smiths fault, but things basically do have to go perfect. Once cylinder misfires and thats all she wrote.

Yet hasn't had a losing record as Chiefs qb, despite the fact that you claimed he couldn't win without a top 10 defense. [emoji106]


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and indeed when that defense falters, he loses

which is what will happen this year, again

Which is logical with how much money is invested in the defense. ....


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Understand that the defense will still play well enough to win.

Alex will not.

Is Smiff a mormon? Are you Smiff ballwashers mormons? Is that the reason you guys act this way? It's truly puzzling.

Isn't he a San Diegan? I think he played on the same HS team as Reggie Bush.

Somewhat irrelevant thought...when Smith's career is over, I wonder if he will be remembered primarily as a 49er or as a Chief? More years in San Fran...but so far has had more consistent success in KC.

There were a lot of things that misfired. Stop being a Claybot.

Real question...do you even enjoy the Chiefs games anymore?

I told you this time last year that the team was going to win its first playoff game in a long time and you should enjoy it.

Alex played his ass off and got us that win and almost single handed lay gave us a chance to beat NE, too.

What happened to you?

Stop being a Homerbot.

He found a new way to get attention.

It's an act.

So Clay wasn't always like this?

He was not. He used to worship at the alter of Larry Johnson and Damon Huard. I'm pretty sure he was vehemently pro-Herm before he decided he wasn't anymore.

And I believe "Scott Pioli: Baller Ass GM" was his handi-work.

It's all shtick.

Dude...

You don even know.

Clay made your views look pessimistic on the chiefs

So Clay is Vader and I am Luke?

Wow that is ****ing nuts.

Maybe.

But that'll just fan the flames.

Clays like beetlejuice. If people would just quit quoting or bringing it up, it'd go away

He's more like Herpes.

There's always a chance that he'll just show up and ruin your day, but if you stop picking at the sores, the chances are that he'll go away much sooner and be far less likely to infect others.

He was the founding member of the Hermines, so....

Yeah, I knew that, but I honestly couldn't remember if they like Herm or hated him. I'm pretty sure he had Herm as an avatar and then finally put the cross-out thing over it after a couple of years.

In either event, I think I'm content using this thread to try out a new phrase - Thread Clerpes.

Does it work? Because if so, this thread definitely has a case of Clerpes.

We will see I guess.


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[emoji23]


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Why are people citing preseason stats in this thread?

Not an act.

The Chiefs have AIDs and they gave it to me in 2010.

Not like I used to. Because there's no real hope.

I'll get my mojo back when I feel it.

Hopefully the mods flush you before then, your shit already stinks. It's time to vote this one who sucks the penis off the island.

Who the hell is talking about David Carr??? This thread is about his little brother. Dumbass!!

There are a lot of bleeding vaginas in here.

You can't take Claythan, ignore him.

They had him shopped as an Admiral. Loved him then flip flopped like a mofo.

Why does this place always fall for trolls? Jesus how old are you? If you don't like it simply ignore it or use the ignore feature. Is it that ****ing hard?

:popcorn:
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/nfl-...-rankings-2016

Cutler, Tannehill, and Bridgewater over Smith, Carr, and Bortles?

Yea, it's safe to say whoever came up with these rankings is a ****ing idiot.

Some of these guys just can't control themselves. Complete lack of willpower.

That list is weird. I like Jameis alot more than that guy, and he likes Matt ryan much more than I .

I like tannehill quite a bit, but he's in a no win situation.

Tannehill deserves a year under Gase, and with Landry/Parker, before he's completely written off. I still think he can be a solid QB, but nothing he's done so far warrants him being ahead of those guys.

Sounds pretty accurate.