If DJ implodes they're gonna need a run stopper though. I don't really like Mauga but he is what he is so I get it.

I'm not big in west but if he's healthy I'd keep him over spiller though I think spiller could excel in that 3rd rb /wr role if healthy.

Tight end I don't really care about either way.

Dl intrigues me. I would actually prefer to keep an extra body there as it's a high attrition position. I'm interested to see if miller is healthy. If so, he could really add something

Seems unlikely. If he had, I don't expect we'd have signed Escobar.

The Chiefs have established a patter here when it comes to those fringe roster players. If they think they can get 90% as much production at the same cost as someone they can move for a late round pick, they'll move the 'better' player to extract surplus value.

They moved a couple of lineman, Kelcie McCray, Shags and I suspect we could see something like that happen with Jenkins if someone wants to give up a 5th for him and we can replace him with King (or West/Spiller, etc...).

They've been very value oriented with the back of the roster. It's smart, IMO.

I've been thinking they may end up keeping spiller and flipping west for a late rounder. I'd like to see them try and land another corner somewhere but that's not gonna be easy

I'll take West, Escobar and Jenkins. If King clears waivers, he's PS eligible, as is Travis.

I don't see Smith or Mauga making the 53 but if it's one over the other, I see them going with Mauga because Smith is PS eligible.

Eligwe, KPL, Ramik Wilson, Mauga and DJ sounds about right but since no one was banging on Mauga's door this offseason, and he's stated that he's a permanent resident of Kansas after having a new baby this year, I could see a scenario in which they cut him and put him on Speed Dial.

I can't see that as a scenario at all. West is only 26 and has serious upside. Running back has been a thorn in their side the past few seasons due to injuries and Spiller is a walking MASH unit.

I don't really see the serious upside with West. He doesn't seem to have any great qualities but is when healthy a good solid back?

I dunno maybe I'm missing something there

Agreed, they seem a CB light still. I'm just not terribly comfortable with that White/Akers duo at the back of the secondary. Not when Gaines is always injured (and ****ing terrible last week) and Nelson has had his share of dings. He's not injury prone, but being smaller he seems to take shots that slow him up for a drive/quarter/game on occasion. Mitchell could turn into a pumpkin as well.

I also wonder where McQuay fits in. He's played pretty well and I don't see room for him and Murray.

I still can't believe we haven't figured out a way to displace Frank Zombo yet. Dude is Freddie !@#$ing Krueger.

See I like white a lot. It's all gonna be about Mitchell and his hammy. If he's what he was the last half of last year and stays healthy, they're golden:

A big part of that equation is that I'm betting on the pass rush coming back this year. Houston appears healthy and ford looks much better and more comfy on the left side now. With the dl healthier hopefully, it improves.

Good points about Travis. If you only watched game tape and didn't know about all his athleticism, you probably wouldn't be too impressed. He might be making the transition from a player that hasn't been given a chance to a player that isn't making his chance.

We saw his explosiveness last Friday night when he ripped off a 50 yard run and finished with 7 carries and 113 yards, a 16 yard average.

He's was hampered by a high ankle sprain in January 2016 and all throughout last season. He appears to be healthy now. He's fast (4.37), has some wiggle and plays well in space. He literally saved the Chiefs 2015 season.

He has the ability to contribute plenty this season, especially since Ware will inevitability break down while Hunt is a rookie.

There's no way I trust Spiller with 20+ touches per game.

If they get down to spiller or west having to get 20 touches per game, they're in trouble anyway.

West doesn't seem to play to his 40 speed to me. Last week he got caught from behind a few times.

He's a good back, I'm just not sure what his ultimate upside is. Again, I'm probably completely wrong about it per usual

The return of Bailey, DJ and Houston will help out the secondary tremendously, as will improvements made by Ford, Wilson and Jones. RNR seems primed for a big year, Jenkins has been serviceable and Tanoh shows serious upside.

At this point in time, all you're going to get in return is a guy like Acker, who's been next to worthless, so I think they should go with who they currently have on the roster. Tramon Willams was available recently and they passed, so they must feel okay with their depth.

He's a practice squad guy. They tried him at corner and he was bad. They've since moved him back to safety but that's a crowded room with Berry, Parker, Sorensen and Murray.

West is one of those 'geared for a quarter mile' kind of players. He runs out of RPMs in a hurry but he screams up the power band. That run that he bounced to the left was impressive as hell for 12 yards as he accelerated through a gap and really pulled away, then just hit a wall as a damn inside linebacker ran him down.

I simply don't buy that 4.37. I've seen him play too many games now and he doesn't show genuine breakaway speed in pads. He never has, even in 2015. Perhaps his split times are demonstrative and he gets to the first 10 quick as a hiccup then just glides the last 30, but it seems more likely that he's just a guy that times faster than he plays (or a guy that lost some speed as he aged/had to put on weight to make it at this level).

Now I'd take quick over fast for virtually every player on the field, don't get me wrong. But quick AND fast is obviously better. And West just isn't fast. So I think that limits him to a 3rd down role. In that regard, if it turns out that we can get something for him and just plug in Spiller (who's going to be similarly capable in that role), I'd go ahead and do it.

I wouldn't want either one of them getting 15-20 touches/gm.

Is Murray a given, though?

I'd say it's more likely than not that he makes the squad, but an int off a deflected floater isn't going to earn him a job. And otherwise I don't feel like he's played that well.

If they liked him enough to just come into camp with him locked into a roster spot, I'm not sure they throw that kind of money at Sorenson. I could be wrong there, but Murray being cut (thus ending the saga of the Aguayo for Russell and Murray draft picks trade) wouldn't actually shock me.

That's what people thought when Charles tore his ACL in 2015.

All the Chiefs did was win 11 straight games.

When healthy, he's played really well behind the #1 offensive line (which at times, really wasn't even the #1 O-line due to injuries to LDT, concussions to Morse, etc.).

Even if his upside is 640 yards and 4 TD's with a 4.0 YPA (his 2015 rushing numbers), that beats the shit out of Knile Davis.

DJ, I think you're overreacting to a couple bad plays in the first preseason game.

Murray, by all reports, had a really good camp and is a lock.

They did win 11 straight but also had ware and west come out of no where. Dunno that I'd count in that again necessarily.

As DJ more eloquently put it a few posts up, west or spiller seems to be the third guy this season and I'm not sure either get that many touches

Hunt is more talented than West and Ware.

We'll be fine.

Murray is a great special team we as well so I'd imagine he'll stick

Ok?

Eric "Missing Tackles" Murray

I think ware is a little underrated here though. Last year thru the first 8 games he was really good, then got nicked up. Splitting time with hunt could lead to a great tandem

agreed.. and

zero gripes about having West or Spiller as the RB3 behind Ware and Hunt. That's a strong RB group. :)

What's the logic behind this statement?

Ware more than proved that when he was healthy last year, 2015 wasn't a fluke.

Why can't a healthy West do the same?

I was pro spiller but as we've seen the past 2 years, they need reliability at rb and spiller is too much of a question for me there.

In reality, this actually goes back to 2014. Charles was playing injured and had a poor season (for him), although it was the last time he topped 1,000 yards in a season.

Knile Davis and Cyrus Gray were just awful.

I wouldn't count on guys coming out of no where like that again, not really relevant to any of the current guys we have as we know what they are etc.

West can absolutely prove it but it seems the team isn't sure in that they drafted hunt and have west competing for the 3rd spot.

This team got it done with Davis and McKnight when they had to.

The chances that Ware and Hunt both miss significant time at the same time are slim. Hunt has proven to be durable.

I'm just saying I don't think there's anything to worry about with our RB group. If we survived with West, Ware, and Davis we'll be fine with Hunt, Ware, West, and Spiller.

Again, ok?

No one was saying the contrary? No one seems to be worrying about the rb group, just talking about who the 3rd guy ends up being

I love the addition of Spiller.

Get him in the backfield with Tyreek on specialized plays and do some damage.

I think he could be great even as a decoy. He might be the second fastest player on the team.

Man I forgot about gray. Yeesh.

I wish Charles could have stayed healthy and built on 2013. I think in Reid's offense a healthy Charles could have been a legit MVP candidate

I was replying to this part:

You sounded concerned to me

Eh, I dunno that he quite has the explosion he had a few years back. If he did, I'm in 100 percent agreement but we'llsee

Moreso of two players coming out of no where like that and reviving the running game

It wasn't a very well articulated post by me though.

Gotcha. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Good thing is, I don't think we'll need to count on that.

Hopefully not. They've been hit with the injury bug the last few years it seems at the most inconvenient times.

Well, considering that the running backs on the roster, outside of Hunt, are known quantities, I'd agree.

But West, even if he's the #3 behind Ware & Hunt, is still far more serviceable than any #3 the Chiefs have had since probably the days of Priest, Blaylock and LJ.

Well, his explosion a few years back made him a top ten draft pick.

No, he doesn't have that explosion anymore, but I feel like pretending he somehow isn't in the upper echelon of speed at the RB position is a misconstruction.

Spiller was drafted in 2010.

Since then, he's scored 12 TD's on the ground and 9 TD's through the air.

Those are pretty shitty numbers for a guy drafted Top Ten in 2010.

21 TD's in seven seasons. Blech.

:Lin:

Ware is a VERY talented back, IMO.

Speed, power and agility. His acceleration and ability to bounce plays is really underrated.

That said - he was a mess after his injury last year (wasn't it a concussion?). The 2015 version of him looked like a 1,400 yard, 4.5 YPC runningback to my eyes. He shocked the hell out of me. And for a few games to start last year he looked just as good. Then he got hurt and just fell apart.

I'm not convinced Hunt's a clearly more talented back. He might be - we shall see. His vision is very good and his running style is fairly unique. He might fit this team perfectly and be just funky enough to give teams fits (a poor man's Bell, so to speak). But I won't just concede that he's clearly more talented than Ware.

Ware's power/speed combination is pretty hard to find when he's running right.

As you already know, I was really high on Hunt, so I may be biased.

I know for sure that he's more capable of handling a full workload though. Ware has yet to show he can going back all the way to college. I just find it hard to believe he ever will at this point.

Agreed.

The addition of Hunt and a healthy West *should* go a long way in keeping him healthy and fresh through January and hopefully, into February.

Come on bro. It's been decriminalized in Jackson County.

Pretty sure it's just KC, not the county.

It's also not decriminalized

JFC Dane.

You can use the same arguments you are fielding in favour of West for Spiller and vice-versa. West looked great against 4th stringers. He had just over a 1 yard per carry average the week before against 2's and 3's. He has been nicked up often enough early in his career. All I recall from last season is him looking to escape to the sidelines or get stuffed between the tackles. 2015 was great for him, but funny you won't give Spiller the same benefit in where he actually appears healthy for the first time in a while and has been solid this pre-season.

I think for your third TE, you look at upside. And Escobar has had chances, and hasn't done much with it. They seem to have liked Ross Travis enough to keep him hanging on, but he hasn't had many chances.

He was also open on the Mahomes-Harris TD pass last game.

I won't give Spiller the "benefit of the doubt" because he hasn't been healthy since the 2013 season AND he's 30 years old.

West had a rough go of it for ONE YEAR and he's still a "young" 26.

In less than two full seasons, West has 5 rushing TD's and 3 receiving TD's.

Since being drafted in 2010, Spiller has 12 rushing TD's and 9 receiving TD's.

I don't get the love.

Travis is running with the 3's, which is why he hasn't had as many ops.

I haven't seen any improvement from him through two games. Hopefully, he steps up Friday.

Ware has no speed. Hunt doesn't either but he may be a tad quicker. Neither is a home run threat but they are serviceable. Spiller is quickest to get moving.

No, he's not a speed back. He's certainly no Chris Johnson.

But he's one of those 'fast for a big back' kind of runners; a 4.6 kinda player who's so powerfully built that his timed speed and game speed are very similar. Despite much different stopwatch times, I don't see West having a better top end than Ware (though admittedly he gets to his quicker). I don't think it's fair at all to say he has 'no' speed - he's not a slow runningback. Especially not for such a large ballcarrier.

And ultimately, Ware runs a 4.6 at his playing weight. Hunt had to shed weight to hit a 4.6. From a pure athleticism standpoint, I like Ware more (I love Ware's feet as well; great bounce). But Hunt has very good vision and appears to have a good feel for blocks and timing.

Spiller's just hard to get a feel for still. He's so far removed from his healthy prime and has been running behind patchwork lines here in the pre-season. I don't actually know if he's truly fast anymore. But the coaches see him daily and at least have an idea one way or the other. If they think he's a genuine HR threat, he'll probably make the team.

I'm not convinced he is.

Has Ware ever demonstrated he could play at a high me level for a full season? He hasn't here and I don't believe he ever did in college either.

Part of the reason for his stats involves the Bills' offense, playing time and injuries. He still has a career average of 4.9 YPC. Not bad. I think he's a good fit for the Chiefs offense and will make the roster. West will go to the practice squad. Hope Spiller can stay healthy. We'll see...

I don't think it is as much a "love" for Spiller as it is more of being underwhelmed by West. Age would be more of a consideration if we were telling one of these guys to be the feature back, but that is not the case. There are as many shitty young players in the NFL as there are old players in the NFL. You arguably roll the dice on Spiller with regards to his health, but he has looked good thus far in preseason and is obviously a professional that brings a well-rounded game to the table.

Preseason:

West - 12 carries, 119 yards rushing. Zero targets receiving

Spiller - 6 carries, 27 yards, 3 receptions for 11 yards.



You're reading all of the Camp Hype without either watching his performance in preseason and/or knowing his stats.

Keeping Spiller in lieu of West not only comes with a $818k cap his and $340k in Dead Cap, Spiller hasn't proven to be healthy for even 15 games since 2012.

Good ****ing god, West isn't going on the Practice Squad.

The Chiefs would be beyond foolish not only to cut him but even worse, not even to trade him.

The guy has proven that when healthy, he's an effective WCO running back.

Seattle, Green Bay, Buffalo and Philly could use him immediately.

Ware had never been a "Feature Back" until 2016

West has too many years in the league to be on the practice squad. And either way, he's too good to be a practice squad player. He's a special teamed at worst. Backup RB at best.
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Seattle has three better than West. Green Bay could care less about rb's. Buffalo I doubt it but maybe Philly.

I have honestly never heard a more glowing review of a player, than Bienemy gave Spiller last week... he just went on and on and on, he simply couldnt praise the guy enough, it was over the top

Combine that with how he looked against Cincy, and I'd bet the guy is ready to ball out

I'd be absolutely floored if he didnt make the team

Who? They went through running backs like Gatorade last year

That's why they've been drafting and trading for backs for years? Huh?

:facepalm:

Seattle has Rawls, Lacey and Proise. All are better than West.

GB loves RBs so much they let Lacey go and have a WR in Montgomery playing RB.

Buffalo has Shady and traded Gillespie who is pretty good. Meaning they don't really care either.

Philly maybe because Pederson is there and West knows the offense

Agree to disagree.

And Lacy is garbage.

The fat, lazy, and uninspired Jerome Bettis

Seattle has Thomas Rawls, Alex Collins, C.J. Procise, Chris Carson (they drafted this year and LOVE), and Eddie Lacey to weed through. It looks like Rawls, Procise, and Carson are going to be their 3 backs at this point. They aren't trading for a back.

Green Bay has Ty Montgomery back and drafted 3 running backs this season: Jamaal Williams, Aaron Jones, and Devante Mays. Williams is more of their traditional power back that they like. Jones looks like a good 3rd down back. I don't see them trading for a back either.

Buffalo is a maybe since nobody behind Shady looks that great. I'm sure they'll keep Jonathan Williams, but alot to be desired following that. At this point, I'd lean towards scatback Taiwan Jones. I think this is the only shot of the 4 teams you mentioned to make a trade with.

The Eagles will certainly keep Wendell Smallwood who had a few solid showings in his rookie year (they drafted him in the 5th in 2016). They have vets in LaGarrette Blount and Darrin Sproles and have two rookies in Corey Clement and Donnel Pumphrey (although he looks more like a gadget player), plus Byron Marshall flashed a bit at the end of last season. They have some decisions to make there. Could West overtake any of those guys? It's a tough call, but I sincerely doubt it.

If Lacy makes the team I'll be surprised. Back up running backs that don't play special teams are not coveted. He ate his way out of Green Bay and may not survive this year's cuts.

I think the Chiefs will be ok with either RB they choose as their #3. West is probably the safer pick if you are thinking of a scenario where we really need our 3 to step up. Perhaps Spiller is more valuable as a change of pace when we need a burst in the screen game or something.

I just really enjoy the way the Chiefs have gone about getting these 4 options. With the state of the position and the value you can get it just isn't worth investing high picks on RB.

The Chiefs have done well at the RB position and out of Holmes, LJ, Charles, Davis, Ware, West, and potentially Hunt only LJ was taken with a 1st round pick. I know many will chuckle that I included Davis and probably rightfully so. But he did step in and help for a short time and have a few big plays for us. I'm not saying he was good, but he did more than some backs do.

Overall KC has done well not paying a high price for RBs.

West needs to learn to not fumble. He had a crucial fumble in the Patriots game 2 years ago

That was Knile Davis

**** I meant the Steelers in the playoff game

Thread titles are so overrated

Maybe Alex shouldn't throw picks in that game either

Maybe Bills move McCoy to Giants, he's reportedly available.

ROFL

Ware might be more notable around the league, and thus worthy of being our trade bate. To be honest, I'd be surprised if anyone outside of KC knew who either Ware or West were.

...I'm thinking, at best, we could move one of them for an available player. Phillip Dorsett and a 6th? Reggie Ragland if the Bills move McCoy to someone like the Giants, Malcolm Butler if NE has an injury?

Can't cut Ware, West or Hunt. All three are too good of values.

Ware and west signing those 3 year 4 million dollar deals were HUGE bargains.

Spiller looked good at camp and has been pretty good in PS, too...he has a good chance to stick.

It seems pretty clear that with the drafting of Hunt that AR is going the RB by committee route for 2017. Ware, West, Davis, and Charles combined for 327 rushing attempts and 66 receptions in 2016. Ware was the only effective RB with 1368 yards and 5 TDs on 214 rush attempt and 33 catches. But that was more than Ware could handle. I expect Ware and Hunt will share the workhorse back load while one of West or Spiller (I prefer Spiller) will be change of pace/third and long screen pass back.

As for Harris, unless the NFL front office and GM Veach announce that Harris is not facing disciplinary action, I will have doubts about his contribution in 2017.