But again - is Orlando Scandrick suddenly good or are our CBs being put in positions to be successful?

You watch Marcus Peters just trip over his dick every week while Orlando Scandrick can suddenly make a claim to be a genuine starting caliber CB for the first time in 5 years and you have to really consider the possibility that the staff is getting these guys to play at a level beyond their true talent.

And if that's the case - why do you pay for Nelson?

He has certainly picked up his level of play, and no he doesnt suck... but he still isnt a guy I wanna see starting next year, his ceiling is quality depth

Oh I agree, I probably wouldn’t pay up for Nelson either. Fuller’s the only corner I’d be willing to give a long term deal at the moment and even then I think Ford and Jones are higher priorities on that side of the ball.

Billay just continues to act like Nelson playing well is some kind of joke.

I don't think you can make that argument at all.

His ceiling is what we've seen this season (this is a career year for him, IMO), and what he's been this season is far more than quality depth.

He's been genuinely great this year. And you don't have to trust the stats on their face - simply look at the company he's keeping. He's on lists with the guys that people would kill to acquire; the Patrick Peterson's and Chris Harris Jrs. Fitzpatrick was a high 1st round pick who's looked as good this year as Lattimore looked last year.

This is high company he's keeping, man. At some point you have to give something some weight. If it's not PFF or production in coverage, at the very least you have to consider him relative to his peers and right now his peer group is among the best in the league.

So to say his 'ceiling' is quality depth is simply objectively disprovable.

And like I said in the draft forum thread - I think if you offered Fuller (with one year left on his rookie deal) the same contract you'd have to offer Nelson to keep him out of the FA market, you could get Fuller signed provided that you do it now rather than AFTER he plays out that rookie contract. At this rate, Fuller will get Trumaine Johnson money on the FA market, IMO. Teams are going to love what he's putting on tape.

And he's a much better long-term FA bet because his tools are simply better. Moreover, his work ethic and intelligence has been lauded at every turn.

That's a guy you pay for long-term, IMO. Nelson and guys of similar ilk are guys you develop and/or scheme into success. I think we can do that.

Lets see him maintain it across a full season and through the playoffs, then I'd consider changing my tune

But that's not a reasonable position to take if you're talking 'ceiling'.

Sure, you can adjust his 'top quartile of probable outcomes' or something like that, but for 10 games the dude has played like one of the top 5-10 CBs in the league. I don't care if he gets his ass beaten like a rented mule for the rest of the season, that damn sure doesn't change the fact that he's proven his 'ceiling' to be far more than quality depth.

Especially not when he was a one of the better slot corners in football in 2016 before we asked him to bite off more than he could chew in 2017.

You're just not being fair here and that's coming from one of the people has has been most critical of Nelson to this point.

Players get hot for a while and then tail off all of the time

I'm not sold on him as a long-term answer, at all... if he is still starting here next year, I'll gladly eat humble pie

Nelson (and the whole defensive backfield really) still is near the worst in the league at getting penalties. It's not all wine and roses with this crew.

Nor am I.

Still doesn't mean that his ceiling is quality depth. He's proven that it isn't. His ceiling, if he plays to it, is a top tier NFL starter.

I just don't think he'll play to it. Again - completely different conversations.

The offense is averaging at/near 2 false-start penalties per game at home.

Penalties are a problem at every level of this football team.

Absolutely true...

Terrance Mitchell
I thought he was the answer.

Marcus Cooper.

Terrance Mitchell looked like a solid starting CB for about 3 games. He had one fantastic game, a solid game or two and then was just there. He was never showing up on the 'best CBs in football' lists.

Warmer; better and for longer. But Cooper started showing drop off pretty quickly as well. Moreover, he didn't have an entire season at the level Nelson had in 2016.

Nelson demonstrated a full season as a 'starting' caliber Nickel CB in 2016 - that's more than Cooper or Mitchell ever showed. Then this year he's gone wire to wire as not just a credible complementary corner (which is the lense we were looking at Mitchell and Cooper through) but as a genuinely excellent starting guy.

Nelson has played at a quality NFL player level for much longer, he's hit a higher peak and he's held it for much longer than either Cooper or Mitchell.

And again - that's not to say that I believe this is his new normal. I don't trust him any more than most to keep it up. I just think it's wildly unfair to simply hand waive 10 weeks of damn good football as 'credible depth'.

You're ignoring what he's done in favor of what you thought he'd do. That's how Matt Cassel's happen...

Well said.

They are throwing flags to keep our games semi close. Some of the bullshit is ridiculous.

Man, it’s really hard not to feel that way.

The Pats and Cardinals game are perfect examples. Opposing team could do no wrong while we get called for ticky tack BS.

hey guys steven nelson is elite

https://scontent.fmkc1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...e9&oe=5C73D99E

#11 CB as per PFF.

But don't say that. Fans want to keep saying Dorsey was so poor at drafting and as a GM.

He is not the reason why the offense is historically good but he is the reason why this defense is supposedly terrible. Ok.

And what about that guy earlier in the thread who was saying Nelson has been bad. Ok sure lol.

Quarterbacks haven't been able to pick on him much lately. They were abusing him early on in the season.

We have had our string of breaks from the refs as well. It's just easy as fans to forget those and mentally hold on to the calls against us.

I’m not pretending or forgetting that we’ve had our share of breaks also.

I just don’t see how anybody can feel that it’s anywhere close to a 50/50 deal. We definitely get ****ed more than we get breaks, especially when you’re talking egregious BS. Anybody that disagrees is trying way too hard not to be “that guy” that cries about the refs. I’m not saying it’s a conspiracy, but it is what it is.

Every fan thinks their team gets ****ed more than other teams. My guess is we don’t, unless you or anyone else can provide some sort of proof to the contrary.

Whatever the case, I’ve been pleased with Nelson’s progress and play, especially when you consider the other “talent” around him.

Yeah the Patriots being flagged for nothing against our elite skill players ad pass rush SURE is balanced officiating

We have a RB literally tackled in the open field when it appeared a ball could be being thrown to him and no flag came out. Guys were hanging off Kelce on a key play inside the 10 and again - nothing. There were just obviously game-changing non-calls that weren't even close judgment scenarios - they were obvious fouls right in the middle of the field and right in front of officials.

That Patriots game was one of the most unbelievably biased games I have ever seen; we got absolutely cornholed.

And what did we hear afterwards? How the Patriots discipline won them the game. Hell no it didn't - they were no more 'disciplined' than we were, they just got away with friggen murder.

The worst for me was when they finally called one then threw that BS flag on Fuller on the other side of the field to offset the OPI on Edelman. It was clearly not a hold and had no effect on the play whatsoever.

No proof though, right? :rolleyes:

So here's a theory.

Steven Nelson is about to hit free agency in 2019. Chiefs are on the phone, and they're offering 3 years at 8m/year or whatever. Nelson's agent tells him a couple teams will offer him 11m/year.

Nelson is a supremely confident guy but he can't ignore the Marcus Peters situation, can he? Peters' lack of system fit and worse coaching than what he had in Kansas City has probably now cost him tens of millions of dollars on his next contract.

Any chance Nelson looks at that and thinks to himself he could make more money long term by staying a Chief?

Sure he loses about $9m total, comparing a 3 year/$8m per year deal to a 3 year/$11m per year deal another team might offer him.

But!

He'd almost certainly have a shot at a real money contract in 2022, whereas if his play fell off on another team with worse coaching, his big money contract days may be over.

Anybody else think that's a real possibility? I need BossChief in here; this feels like a very BossChief theory.

Form what I’ve seen on his social media, Nelson is going for the bag this year. I don’t think that will factor in at all.

Dorsey's drafts were go good they are disgusting.

2013

Eric Fisher CeePee
Travis Kelce CeePee
Knile Davis
Nico Johnson
Sanders Commings (not a bust, just couldn't stay healthy)
Braden Wilson
Mike Catapano

2014

Dee Ford CeePee
Phillip Gaines
De'Anthony Thomas CeePee
Aaron Murray
Zach Fulton CeePee
Laurent Duvernay-Tardif CeePee

2015

Marcus Peters CeePee
Mitch Morse CeePee
Chris Conley
Steven Nelson
Ramik Wilson
DJ Alexander
James O'Shaughnessy
Rakeem Nunez-Rochez CeePee
Da'Ron Brown

2016

Chris Jones CeePee
KeiVarae Russell
Parker Ehinger
Eric Murray
Demarcus Robinson CeePee
Kevin Hogan
Tyreek Hill CeePee
DJ White
Dadi Nicholas

2017

Patrick Mahomes CeePee
Tanoh Kpassagnon
Kareem Hunt CeePee
Jehu Chesson
Ukeme Eligwe
Leon McQuay

You can debate a player here or there but that is ****ing disgustingly awesome.

When we fired him, I figured the odds of me seeing a Kansas City Super Bowl ever again were dashed.

But he did give us Mahomes.

Do not pay this guy. He is simply not worth it.

He’s had one good year of production that would warrant a 2nd contract, and that’s with him benefiting from the best pass rush in the league. Is there really any disparity between him and Scandrick, who is making pennies?

Draft a corner early and keep Scandrick. Seriously this system helps corners.

You in 2017, probably.

Anyone in the NFL who's willing to take less money on his 2nd deal (a 3 yr deal no less) to try to make money in his 3rd deal (at 29 yrs old) is an idiot. I mean a truly unmitigated idiot.

There is no way in hell I would ever recommend that to an NFL player if I were his agent, especially a 'skill' player. You're literally 1 step away from never being relevant again.

On that 2nd deal, you get every thin red guaranteed dime you can and you worry about 3 years from now in 3 years because the odds overwhelmingly suggest that you're going to be of little use to anyone by then anyway.

This.

The idea of the top CB following the top WR sounds great in theory, but I was thinking about how many quick routes and option routes teams are running these days and I think there's a HUGE benefit to staying at home.

Think about it - most NFL offenses are righthanded and thats the way the progressions read because that's just how quarterbacks drop back. So as a general rule (not a constant, but a general rule), your quicker developing routes and especially route combos are to the right side of the offense.

So if you're a CB that just stays on that side, you see a handful of route combos more frequently over on the right side. If you're a guy on the other side, you'll see a handful of route combinations a little more frequently on that side.

Playing defensive back in this era where you can't blast guys and contact is a problem, an era with fast developing routes and lots of space, requires an exceptional ability to recognize, diagnose and react. That HAS to be improved with familiarity.

So if you're a CB that plays exclusively on the right side of the offense, you're going to see those little keys that give away something like a flat/slant combo. If you're on the left side of the offense, you're going to be a little better at diagnosing those smash concepts.

It's not going to hit 100% of the time by any means, but even a 10% more likely occurrence is going to pay dividends over the course of a long season.

Granted, I've become a 'shutdown corners are overvalued and overpriced' guy so of course I believe this - it matches my particular outlook. But I also think it's just more evidence of said outlook. Give me 2 solid corners that I can leave where they are to gain familiarity with those more frequently used concepts and I'm going to be better off than the defense that has a 'lockdown' CB chasing a dude across the field, IMO.

Sutton's approach here is either stubborn and the league simply came to him, or it's been extremely smart all along...

Look I've had my hands in the air like everybody else this year. The reality is though that most people remember the bad more than the good.

Think back at all the horrible calls over the past 5 to 10 years that have screwed us. I bet a few just came to mind. I'm no different. Now think of all the great calls that have helped us. Probably not too many vivid ones coming to mind.

The easy joke here is to say there haven't been any, but objectively that isn't true. Point is that we hold on to the bad calls and forget the breaks. And if great players do get the benefit of the doubt, our complaining better happen now because it's about to end. The Broncos would argue it already happened. So are we an objective fan base and the Broncos fans aren't? Or is a little of both happening?

I'm not going to say we didn't get a break here and there in games that we were largely controlling anyway. Meanwhile in the Steelers game a suspiciously late flag on a penalty that had no bearing on the outcome kept that one close. And in the only game we lost this year we got undeniably screwed and screwed badly.

I'm just saying this isn't a balanced ledger. Letting us get away with a hold up 2 scores in the 4th against an overmatched opponent doesn't even the scales for that butt-****ing we took on Foxboro.

I'm not saying things are even Steven. I'm just saying that every fanbase tends to think they are being objective when it isn't always the case. I'm also not sure that all the breaks we got this season came at points that didn't matter. That's part of my overall point. I'm sure opposing fans could name a few important calls. We can be objective all we want, but many calls are subjective.

In all honesty it does take a lot to get me furious about those things. The hold in the Pit playoff game, the end of that Raiders Thursday night game, those are moments I remember. I guess because the NE game was early this season let's me let it go. If it was in the playoffs I'd feel worse.

Plus, honestly, if we end up with home field I will be GLAD we lost that game. Let us be the ones with chips on our shoulders. That point doesn't justify penalties, but it's part of the reason I wasn't furious.

How much of that success is coaching?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> lowest ranked corner according to <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@pff</a> is Orlando Scandrick. His overall grade is 70.3 which ranks 33th overall. KC currently has three top 35 corners. I’ll be damned.</p>&mdash; Chiefs Central (@ChiefsCentral) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefsCentral/status/1062561357973872645?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 14, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Again - 46 defense this week.

It's gonna be tough for the corners, but they've done solid work thus far. Let them prove it - none of the Rams corners are that sort of Julio Jones combination of size/strength/speed. None of them are impossibly difficult matchups.

Get in a 46 look and MAKE them beat you. Do not let Todd !@#$ing Gurley pick us apart 6-8 yards at a time. If Cooks, Woods or Reynolds end up beating you for 6, fine. Take the ball back and go score.

But you cannot let them keep that D on the field for 35+ minutes by abusing us with Gurley. These corners have earned the chance to prove their mettle.

No lie, this is all about stopping Gurley

Bottle him up in the run AND pass - win

Let him run wild and catch easy passes - lose

This is one of those games that can have me turnin' on old Bob.

I think I've been among his few fairly ardent supporters this year. But if we end up going out there and getting our asses kicked in a Cover 2 while Gurley abuses Ragland/Hitchens and Parker gets run the !@#$ over, I will not be pleased.

This is a 'pick your poison' game and I think the one that might kill you is preferable to the one that will kill you.

Goff may beat us up in a 46 - he's a no shit elite downfield passer. It's easily his greatest strength, IMO. That guy has downfield accuracy that is presently unrivaled in the league. A cover-1 look against him is legitimately terrifying, especially with a deep threat like Cooks who will absolutely get behind Nelson a few times.

But if he's waiting for those to develop and we can hang for just a couple of seconds, that's when the rush does its thing. That's when Plan B can help us if Plan A fails.

But if it's just Gurley killing us all day via short throws that eliminate the rush and runs that take advantage of our fairly porous run D....there's no Plan B there - you just get pushed down the field like we did in the playoffs against TN.

If Bob isn't openly and obviously scheming to prevent that, Imma be pissed.

I’m going into this game expecting a loss. I don’t know if this defense can do enough to stop the Rams.

We have a better chance of slowing them than they have of slowing us.

We can/should throw numbers at Todd Gurley and we can at least slow him down and force some manageable 3rd down situations where O'Daniel can come to bear.

But the Rams can't do that to us, IMO. They don't have the interior LBs to hang with Kelce without putting Joyner on him. Joyner is damn good and can do a lot to neutralize Kelce but Kelce lines up wide so often that Joyner isolated on Kelce opens up significant RPO options for Hunt. Moreover, if Joyner is dedicated to Kelce, their CBs will get absolutely destroyed by Watkins and Hill.

They have to collapse our interior or they will lose damn near every defensive snap. Any play that the Rams can't push the pocket into Mahomes lap should yield something near first down yardage (and Andy is so damn smart that he can do some misdirection with the short passing game to slow them down and keep Hunt in the fight as well, IMO).

I think we have an easier path to slowing them on offense.

I'm going full 'Because Chiefs' here and saying we'll lose - I'm just conditioned to do it. But man their defense matches up like ass against our offense. And our defense is not the shit sandwich that people believe it is. There is a fair amount of talent here and the guys we don't consider 'talent' like Nelson and Scandrick are playing their asses off. I actually like our talent more than theirs in this matchup.

Matchups make fights and our matchup is better here, IMO.

Get out of here with that shit! How is their defense any better than ours?

My frustration will come if we let Gurley pick up easy 3rd down conversions on easy passes. We do that a lot. Teams somehow forget about Gurley coming out of the backfield.

:clap:

We have the best pass rush in the NFL. Stack the box and get after Goff.

Let's do it

Beaver on Beaver. :thumb:

Every time I watch the Rams, they will hit that pass to Gurley out of the backfield over and over I don't understand how defenders can lose track of him so often. You would think covering their best player would be a priority.

I didn’t say it was logical. I’m just not expecting a win.

Ahh I understand

Somebody hasn’t seen Goff’s passing stats against the blitz.

Hint: don’t blitz Goff. You asshole.

No myth.

Most overrated player on the team. He got beat like a red headed step child just like he did against Brady.

Too badly he can’t play bad QB’s every game.

Myth - confirmed

The OP is nothing but a mouth-breathing dumbshit attention whore, posting shit like this.

Nelson is a #3 at best that's painfully obvious

He had a few good games but this game was prime Nelson with the penalties.
Posted via Mobile Device

Watch out, he's going to start stalking you too now.

Yup. We need a true #1 who can make plays on the ball. Neither of the 2 current guys can. You know it I know it. That's why everyone talked about trading for Petersom for weeks. Take PFF and shove it up your ass.

A lack of a #1 CB and Mahomes turnovers will be the downfall this year for a super bowl run.

ROFL
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BTW on a personal level I like Staylor but dude Terrance Mitchell, Nelson, etc. They arent NFL starters stop tryna polish a turd.

Welp

Yup let’s ignore the INT because he got beat

Multiple times.

By the same dude.

That doesn't mean he sucks, but it isn't like he just had an oops play. He's getting destroyed by Williams.

Either Sutton needs to adjust how we cover this guy or Nelson needs to play better.

He was beat on that play too.

Or both.

Probably his worst game of the year

Dude is straight ass.

He sucks...nice 4rh down penalty to give LAC a score

The only reason this guy looked remotely good at times is the pass rush.

He’s gotten killed against almost every QB that doesn’t suck.

He's not good enough so he basically tries to cheat every play

Nelson ****ing blows. He needs to be gone after this season.

He's always been like this. Only way he makes good plays is when hes allowed to grab and hold players. When he's not, hes a penalty machine and a burn ward victim.
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You make a good point.

Be easy on staylor. He's a throwback to when this place was filled with blind homers that refused to see shitty players for their shittiness.

I'm sure he would have loved Turk McBride.

Boy, he sure as hell sucked today.

Myths are based in fact. Fact: Nelson sucks cock.

Lmao this thread should be stickied