Sure. Apologize for calling me a "dumb***", "dumb****" and personally attacking me for months after I predicted James Shields was going to have a Guthrie like regression and you have a deal.

No. It was in response to you lying about me, unprovoked.


Sure. Post the link, and if I made an incorrect analysis of course I'll own it. Who wouldn't?

It wasn’t unprovoked. You said my fan stupidity hit an all time low.

If I have the time i’ll dig up the 2016 Repo and happily post examples. But will it matter if I do? In the last page of this thread, you’ve ignored the dozens of articles that spoke to how Matheny lost the locker room and ignored the analysis of people who closely followed him for over five years.

I do apologize if what I said was upsetting. I do hold your analysis in high esteem. You’ve been dead on about a lot of your takes from the time you registered here. However, if me retracting is so important to you - all you have to do is apologize for attacking me personally in 2016. It’s that easy.

The "stupidity" comment wasn't leveled at you at all. But, I hold yiuband Duncan to a higher standard here. That's why I'm still on this, I wouldn't if it was say Lewdog or just the BFIBs acting stupidly. I'm genuinely surprised you and Duncan didn't see this for what it was: anti-religious bigotry masquerading as "analysis".



Make no mistake tho: the Cards beat writer absolutely saw it.

Ben Frederickson is not a beat writer (columnist) and was not in St. Louis for the first five years or so of Matheny’s time as manager.

I wouldn’t expect him to have the insight into why Allen Craig and Pete Kozma and etc. were getting playing time their performance didn’t warrant, at the expense of young players or better alternatives.

Joe Strauss, Bernie Miklasz, Derrick Goold... They were there. Believe the thought the Bible study group membership was influencing playing time decisions originated from comments from them. I never saw one of those directly because I don’t follow the Cardinals that closely, but people who did saw them.

Regardless, the fact remains that in addition to his worst-in-MLB bullpen management, Matheny had trouble with young player development, he had trouble connecting with all of his clubhouse, he lost big parts of his clubhouse, and he consistently played underperforming veterans for far too long.

He’s a terrible option for a rebuilding club that is planning to go young, young, young...

Remember the days of Ross Gload getting tons of PT over younger options? That’s the type of stuff Matheny is infamous for. No thank you.

Bitch is defending Matheny...that's a hell of a hill to die on.

Derrick Goold and Ben Fredrickson already weighed in on this - and both agree fully with me. I'll go ahead and downgrade you from their level, and put you in the BFIB bucket with Mecca, Rabbi, Hamas and Bigfatqueef. Congrats!


As the Warden told Andy Dufresne in Shawshank: "I'm pulling you out of that 1-bunk Hilton and casting you down with the sodomites"

Show me Goold weighing on it and I’ll completely discount the rumors.

You agreed with them.

I did a search over my lunch break. I couldn't find the back and forths I was thinking of in the gamethreads that I was thinking of - but here's the first exchange, with my first post coming earlier in the repo.



I know that we've already cluttered up the thread enough. So here's the deal. I'll concede that your concerns about the 2016 season were in the right place, if you own up to repeatedly calling me out and going after me personally (i.e. "I'm embarrassing myself") over Shields.

I still believe that the preponderance of accounts from the STL Media, National Media, and from Cards fans demonstrate that we want nothing to do with Matheny in our locker room, but if you own up about Shields, I'll take back that you got your *** kicked. Deal?

Is that What's Eating Gilbert Grape? My bad then. Yes Shields went to shit. I don't presume to know anything about pitching. I'd never sign any vet. They're all pricey and the odds they'll succeed are nil to me. Don't take pitching advice from me in the future.












I've stated a dozen times now: it's only about his RELIGIOUS BIAS that I dispute. Not his leadership skills. I'm not getting that across apparently. I'll have to try more - as Richard Nixon famously told his aides, "The 50th time I say something is the 1st time a voter hears it".

That’s fair enough. I missed that. Thanks for linking.

I picked up that note 3rd hand from intense cards here and a few other forums. Won’t repeat it again.

Oh my god. You are such an ass. It's amazing.

Let's clear something up. In the beginning. You either doubted the entire existence of a bible study or your word choice gave that impression. That’s what I clarified with Cards fans since the consensus was that they definitely were a part of that locker room.



It’s evident the study existed. Now, I agree with you now from your link that there’s no evidence that the study influenced Matheny’s decisions. For some reason he continued trotting out players whose production was refried ass (Kozma, Choate, Ellis, etc), but you’re right, there’s no evidence that his devotion to players with awful production was because of their attendance to his bible study. I do retract that and won’t repeat that position again. Are we good now, PB?

Out of curiosity, what’s your overall take on Matheny being named as a successor to Yost?

If anything, I'd guess that Matheny is the equivalent of a player reclamation project. They see things they like...but want him in their system to see if they can fix what they don't like. They might just want him around Yost to see if he can learn from what Yost learned about his own mistakes in Milwaukee. It won't make him any better of a tactician (Yost has never really developed on that end, either), but it could move him towards being a better manager to players. It's not a terrible idea. I doubt it's a given at all that he's next in line, regardless.

There's literally nothing he does that's worth reclamation. He's bad at handling players, bad at in-game strategy, and knows dick about analytics. But yeah, good luck getting a guy whose book was called a manifesto in its own title to soften up how he handles players.

Royals sign Chris Owings.

Decent. Had an awful year last year. Prior to that he was a decent utility guy with some pop who could steal a base or two.

Now this is a dude that screams GMDM.

Yeah, seemed to have some hard luck hitting last year. Hopefully, he can turn it around.

Kind of what I was thinking.

I’ve been worried that GMDM will resign Alcides. Hopefully this signals that we are moving away from him. I couldn’t believe that we signed him to the one year deal last year.

I had a friend who did this sorta thing with Andy Reid. We all bitched Fat andy was a coward on short + goals. My friend conjured up a theory that Andy fears loss due to the loss of his son to drugs and subconsciously avoids high-risk coaching moves. It all sounded sensible, we had (1) facts about Andy and (2) his coaching behaviors.


Then the last couple years Reid started gojng for it all the time when he had better players and shittier defenses, and the laughable theory went bust. You get the point.

He better start polishing up on his new testament.

Not sure I have seen a shittier 3 page start to a Royals Repository thread. This thing needs a reboot.

I’m sure he’s been certified porn-free.

We're just trying to stay consistent with the 2018 season. Just wait until our ASB. It'll get better.

Every board needs a know-it-all half reerun.

PB I love you.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Royals&#39; center field job is open: Could Billy Hamilton be a potential fit? You&#39;ll hear those rumors over the next week. <a href="https://t.co/H7Uxi2uEG4">https://t.co/H7Uxi2uEG4</a> via <a href="https://twitter.com/MLB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MLB</a></p>&mdash; Jeffrey Flanagan (@FlannyMLB) <a href="https://twitter.com/FlannyMLB/status/1070746098342481922?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hearing the Royals are looking hard at center fielder Billy Hamilton, recently non-tendered by the Reds. Not a surprise considering they reportedly looked into trading for him in the past and he fits their stated profile of &#39;action-type&#39; players. Looks like <a href="https://twitter.com/FlannyMLB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@FlannyMLB</a> is on it.</p>&mdash; Rustin Dodd (@rustindodd) <a href="https://twitter.com/rustindodd/status/1070749782661099521?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2018</a></blockquote>
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So how does signing Chris Owings affect our roster crunch? We're now set at the middle IF with Merrifield, Mondesi, and Owings. I'm not sure I see a spot on the roster for Roselle Herrera. Phillips and Goodwin seem to be the options at CF. Cuthbert and Dozier are the two options for at least another year at 3B, although I suppose Kelvin Gutierrez could push for a spot at some point? Nicky Lopez appears to be blocked for the foreseeable future, unless Moore still possibly considers a Merrifield trade next week at the winter meetings or at the trade deadline?

I read recently (can't recall where) that Lopez is effectively ticketed for another year at Omaha, regardless of the ST performance. He's not on the 40 and there's no reason to start his clock at this point. I tend to agree. Barring a crazy haul for Merrifield from another team (doubtful) or prolonged Mondesi injury, we won't see him in KC until 2020.

And if they do get that Merrifield offer, Owings probably becomes your everyday 2B.

Wouldn’t surprise me to see Owings get some time in CF too.

Royals - Ballpark Operations Assistant job posting

Saw this online and posted it just in case someone was looking for a job and wanted to work at the ballpark.

Winter meetings getting ready to start. Should be interesting.


Hold on to your butts . . . . .

My first thought seeing the Owings signing is that Merrifield is on deck to be dealt away.

Part of me thinks the Owings signing was insurance. As in, if we get a good enough offer, bye bye Whit.

I don’t know that they’re actively shopping him, but if someone blows them away they probably should consider it strongly. The winter meetings are usually when stuff like that goes down.

Baseball twitter is in an uproar tonight. The HOF Veterans Committee announced tonight that they are electing Lee Smith and Harold Baines to the HOF. The Harold Baines one is particularly surprising.

Let's put it this way, if you value WAR, and Baines gets in, you could make a case that Frank White and Alex Gordon could get in. They're in the same neighborhood in terms of WAR. But Baines did play for 20 years and was pretty consistent.

Lee Smith I could make a case for Baines not so much.

Agreed.

Baines had 1 season greater than 3.0 WAR. One. Jim Edmonds, who didn't see the second ballot of the writer's committee, had six straight seasons greater than 6 WAR, and eight seasons better than Baines' career year.

Hell, you can make a case for Hal McRae.

Baines - 289/.356/.465 121 OPS+
Hal McRae - .290/.351/.454 123 OPS+

Technically, Baines had 2.

1982, he had 3.4.
1984, he had 4.3.

Your point still stands though.

It's a debate over whether they should value true greatness over a short time vs prolonged consistent success. I mean there's no doubt in my mind what Baines did was an accomplishment. It's hard to be a good player for that long and a lot of guys don't do that. But I don't know where you draw the line. I don't think he's a HOF but I was almost serious about Frank White... there's a guy who played 18 years and had 2000 hits and won 8 gold gloves and had more 4 WAR seasons than Baines did. I get that Baines almost had 3000 hits though.

Yeah, I just hate that voters value guys that were above average for a long time but never great. It's one of the biggest issues with counting stats, as I'm sure you know. At least Baines was an objectively good hitter for most of his career. Craig Biggio was a good hitter, but if he had 2960 hits instead of 3060, maybe people realize that the guy was a career .280/.363/.443 guy. Chase Utley was almost just as valuable, and put up that value in far fewer years. Is Utley a HOF?

biggio playing a couple positions bla bla bla. IDGAF but I remember that being throw around why he was HOF worthy.

Dan quisenberry is not in the hall and it's a damn crime.

Yeah. Throw in that Biggio probably hurt the Astros his last few seasons while chasing 3k hits and it really leaves a bad taste.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Royals</a> close to agreement with OF Billy Hamilton just working through bonuses and pending physical</p>&mdash; Jim Bowden (@JimBowdenGM) <a href="https://twitter.com/JimBowdenGM/status/1072157258929172480?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Great - another .205 hitter!

That's a good signing if you're on the brink of playoff contention and need a replacement for Terrance Gore ;)


Also, to continue an earlier discussion, I have a question for you all:

Who is a player that is currently in the HOF, is widely accepted by the general public/baseball literati as a HOFer, but you don't think belongs in the Hall?

I'll start with Tom Glavine. Without 4-6 extra inches on the outside of the plate he was just a junkballer with longevity.

Jack Morris

Looking at the list of HOF. Pucket and Barry Larkin stick out.

Of "modern" players, Bruce Sutter or Bill Mazeroski

I think you could make the legit argument against Ozzie Smith too...albeit not a popular opinion lol.

If the Royals have any faith at all that Lopez can be the future at 2B, I think they're pretty much set with enough options at almost every position to consider a Merrifield trade if they can get a decent return.

Joey Gathright v2.0

Joey Gathright was Tom Goodwin 2.0

If you throw Smith out, you're gonna need to get rid of Larkin, Yount, Trammell, and Ernie Banks, too.

Smith is arguably the greatest defensive player that ever lived. That's a pretty transcendent skill set, especially since he was an above average hitter for a SS at that time.

Fair points...I don't know if I'd personally make the case against Ozzie (probably because I really like him lol) but I think someone a lot smarter than me could.

I think Sutter is the real stand out one though.

That makes 0 sense.

This is your 43rd post saying the same thing.

Not exactly. My point is that signing Owings and Hamilton now gives us enough depth and options that we can make the trade without leaving a huge hole in the roster. We now have options/competition at CF, 2B, and 3B, all the positions that Merrifield could be penciled in at.

@JonHeyman: KC, Billy Hamilton have agreed on base pay and are finalizing deal with performance bonuses. Expected to be close to 5M total. Royals need speed in center.

Future trade bait

Craig Biggio (has to be in because of 3,000 but meritless otherwse)

Jack Morris (very good, not great)

Bill Mazerowski, Rabbit Maranville, Johnny Evers, Joe Tinker, Frank Chance

Yes. Those guys obviously are the same as Merrifield.

I've trade to give Moore some rope but it's dumb shit like this that shortens that rope.

Re: Hamilton ... there isn’t much to lose there for KC other than dollars and there’s some serious upside.

He’s an excellent defender in CF. He can get to replacement level there even if he’s as bat with the bat as he was a year ago.

I could also see the Royals and all that OF grass at the K helping him regain some offensive value. He’s going to be encouraged to bunt and slash and take advantage of his speed as a Royal. If they can’t bring out an average offensive player in him, no one can.

This is an exciting signing that gives KC arguably the best trio of base stealers in baseball. This is a super cheap 1 year deal on a rebuilding team that also gives Hamilton a home ballpark where he can thrive. Our base running and outfield defense are both elite.

When did I say they're the same? You can't really be that dense. They don't need to be the same, they just need to give us enough capable bodies to not be left with a complete black hole at any one position. Despite what Moore has said about rebuilding, they're clearly in rebuild mode. I'm not a big fan of Moore obviously, but I don't think he's that oblivious and ignorant to not see the merits of making a trade IF the right return is offered. Moore is covering his bases in case he is offered a return he can't refuse.

Ozzie Smith is the best defensive player ever, scoring higher than even Brooks Robinson in the fWAR tables. 67 WAR, didn’t destroy all that much value st the plate either since he played in a slapdick era where slapdicks at middle infield was fine. I used to say he was basically a hyped up Frank White but that’s not really true - SS is vastly tougher to play and hence Ozzie was worth about twice what White was over their careers.


Oh. Harold Baines is the worse choice I’ve ever seen. Even he said he was “shocked”. He and Bruce “hairy bush face” Sutter have no biz being in. All these mediocrities make it likely I’ll avoid ever going to Cooperstown

This does feel like Moore's doing prep-work for a Merrifield deal. If we can get value from a Whit trade and nail the draft this year, our system suddenly looks a whole lot better.

Gordon, Hamilton, and Phillips would make for the best outfield defense in baseball. Sorry Boston. 5 million is chump change.

I can give a dozen reasons why I'm not a fan of Moore, but this move? Who cares if we sink $5 million on a reclamation project for 1 year. How is this a negative?

I saw a lot of people on Twitter talking about Baines last night....could not believe he got in.

Props! I agree completely and thought we should note our rare agreement!

Re: Merrifield, I agree they’re positioned to move him if the right return presents itself, but we’ll have to see what is out there.

:bravo:

I can see the merits of holding on to him and trying again at the deadline. I saw a report that the Reds are considering trading Scooter Gennett, obviously hurting Merrifield's value. We can hope Lopez lights it up in Omaha for 2-3 months, possibly making Merrifield expendable.

Whit’s trade value will never be higher than it is right now; 4 years of control left coming off of leading all of MLB in SB and hits. The time to strike is now, but ONLY if you get the right offer. You don’t just trade him for the sake of trading him.

Hopefully someone blows the Royals away . . . .

Absolutely. Jack Morris being in the Hall of Fame is a joke. His career ERA+ was 105! But hey, he threw a lot of innings, so put him in the Hall!

Not sure if the premise is correct or not, but I saw an article that theorized his value is too high right now to get the return we want, and that maybe in a year or so he might finally have a value equivalent to a trade we could reasonably expect to receive.

I’m fine with the Royals holding on to him for another year or so if no one is willing to give up something good and ‘fair’ in value right now. Eventually (maybe at the trade deadline this year?) someone will try and meet the Royals asking price. Royals definitely need to slow play this one . . . . .