Woops.

About the same as what Mahomes did against the Raiders.

Except Allen was facing a tougher team.

He was like 63% for 270 yards 2 TD's and 2 INT's (one was tipped by a receiver).

Allen is dangerous. Man, he can really make plays when outside the pocket or when the play design works.

If you can take away the first read and make him stay in the pocket, he isn't nearly as dangerous. Those aren't small tasks, though.

LMAO

Mahomes threw for 342 had 2 passing TDs 1 Rushing TD and 1 INT.

"Just the same". LMAO

LMAO

I'm guessing you'd pick Allen then?

And put up 2x as many points, and had at least 14 more points wiped out by judgment calls by officials (Hill TD on first drive, OPI on Kelce at end of 1st half drive leading to FG instead, non-DPI on the deep shot to Hill in 3Q).

Yeah. Same.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">How good has Ryan Tannehill been since becoming Titans starter?<br><br> Tannehill Mahomes<br>*14 starts w/Ten *Last 14 starts<br> <br> 11-3 Record 11-3<br> 3,602 Pass Yds 3,674<br> 31/6 TD/INT 28/6<br> 116.7 Rating 102.3 <a href="https://t.co/5Lzuz2deec">pic.twitter.com/5Lzuz2deec</a></p>&mdash; NFLonCBS (@NFLonCBS) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLonCBS/status/1316372729675866113?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 14, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ryan Tannehill Patrick Mahomes
0-1 AFCCG 1-1 AFCCG (Damn you Dee Ford)
0-0 SB's 1-0 SB's

Anytime penbrook endorses a player, they instantly turn to shit LMAO

LMAO

I’m here to help!! But you know who truly is playing really well? Big Ben!! Steelers are for real with that defense and Big Ben is back to his old self

Dude, is it hard to keep track of all the opposing QB's you're in love with at any given time?

No. Mahomes.

It's all about context my friend.

Allen was playing a much more difficult team.

A team that was in the AFC championship game last year.

Mahomes struggled mightily against the Raiders.

51% for 342 yards, 2 TD's and 1 INT.

Allen was 70% for around 300 yards and 2 TD's, 0 INT's against them as well.


There's no need to diss another player just to prop up Mahomes.

Mahomes put 294 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, and 53 yards rushing on "a team that was in the AFC championship game last year", in the AFC Championship.

patty has read all the josh love and comparisons

that shit gets patrick annoyed, focused and HORNEY

he's coming with his huge 12 pound football dick monday, just like baltimore

Oh **** yesss! I’m gonna cum so much

Allen can still ball. He's massive and I think his arm might honestly be stronger than Mahomes'. He needs to learn how to consistently read defenses and cut down on the boneheaded plays, but this is just one bad game. He's got like 30 TD and 8 INTs in his last 16 games or some shit like that.

I realize that.

But that was last year.

Last week, he was pretty bad.

Like...real bad.

I'd still take Mahomes over Allen any day of the week, but to pretend that last week didn't happen is kinda silly too.

Yeah it's something like that.

Impressive.

What surprised me even more was seeing a stat that Tannehill has more TD's and less INT's in the last 10 games or whatever than Mahomes. Shocked me.

If that was last year, why did YOU mention it? ;)

Someone posted it in this thread earlier.

Tannehill looks legit but comparing him to Mahomes is not comparing apples to apples. Tannehill is working with one of the most feared rushing attacks in the league. He basically attempts half of his passes off the play action. If he was forced to line up with no threat of the run, he wouldn’t look nearly as good.

We’ve got lots of weapons for Patrick but at the same time no QB is asked to do as much as he is each week. He doesn’t have the benefit of a good or great running game and our OL, IMO, is prob fringe bottom 10.

Exactly.

What in the actual **** is this?

How the **** are you not banned?

Lol you're trolling bad right now. Mahomes wasn't even in the realm of bad and sure as shit wasn't really bad. He was actually spectacular, but he had a deep TD pass negated by a bullshit penalty and has at least 1 more on top of that if not for other bull shit penalties. If not for some very timely penalties Mahomes would have had 450+ yards 3-4 pass TDs, 1 rushing TD, and 1 int. We'd be 5-0 and wouldn't hear this Derek Carr is elite bull shit.

Lamar Jackson is terrorizing opposing defenses again....

Feasting on lesser competition.

Yea, they still have 3 games against the Steelers and Browns, plus good defenses like the Pats and Colts

Yeah, nobody fears the KC run game. That takes away a lot of easier throwing opportunities for Mahomes. He’s got very nice weapons, but so do other QB’s who also have way more of a run game to set them up with play action stuff.

Alright man.

Mahomes throwing 51% was amazing last week.

haha fair point

And the Titans.

Funny how that works. Baker, Carr and Allen got upgrades in coaching, personnel (some both) and they all look a lot better this season.

Always, no matter what, use a 1st or 2nd rd pick to help Mahomes. Every year we need to do that and so far we have.

I'm interested in seeing how that one shakes out. On paper, the Ravens should roll that Titans D but they got locked down in the playoffs so we'll see.

I thought after last night we put this argument to bed? Josh Allen isn't anywhere near Mahomes' level. he has a big arm and he's mobile, and that's literally the end of the comparison. At least for now. Maybe he becomes something more comparable in a few years, but right now, when it comes to the cerebral part of the game, Allen is playing with crayons and construction paper; Mahomes is using a Surface Pro 7 or something.

I agree that Allen is not on Mahomes level.

But what exactly are you referring to in the game the other night?

Allen was 63% for 260 yards, 2 TD's and 2 INT's (one was a tipped pass, not his fault).

He didn't exactly shit the bed or anything.

And this season:

Allen: 69% for 1,589 yards, 17 TD's and 3 INT's
Mahomes: 64% for 1,474 yards, 15 TD's, and 1 INT's

I don't think I'll ever understand the disrespect some have for Allen.

CP collective mindset:

“He’s not Mahomes, so he sucks”

It's the same thing Ravens fans hear when they think we're "disrespecting" Lamar Jackson.

Stats only tell half the story. Allen is a physically-gifted yet quirky QB. He certainly seems to be improving but his entire body of work just isn't that impressive, yet.

Absolutely not true.

Pointing out legitimate flaws does not equal "he sucks".

But you're the same dipshit that's made his reputation on asking whether we should have drafted Deshaun Watson over Mahomes.

Josh Allen is absolutely a starting level QB in the NFL. He is not a top ten QB and the reasons are:

1.He has slow eyes and struggles to read the field. If his first read is not open the play probably is at best a checkdown or run.

2.He makes poor decisions and panics under pressure.

He has all the physical traits that old time scouts love. Big Arm, Size, Athletic. He is also a very tough kid.

His arm talent is nowhere near Mahomes. The only similarity is Allen has a cannon and can rifle the ball really fast. He loses accuracy fast off platform and his velocity/accuracy dip on almost all off-platform throws other than rolling to the right. His ball placement instincts and spatial awareness are low.

Where Allen has been excelling this year is that teams are worried about his running so they keep playing soft zone and this allows his big arm to rifle the ball into huge windows where he only needs area code accuracy.

Tighten the coverage, play man defense with coverage and he looks like a different player. If you want to see this look at the Rams game this year. 1st half zone, 2nd half man. He struggled in the 2nd half except for 3rd and long when Rams went back into zone.

Playing soft zone against Allen looks like prevent.

Such a strange mindset, isn't it?

Of course he's not Mahomes. But that doesn't mean he is awful. Or any other Qb for that matter.

Well yeah I don't think anyone should anoint the dude.

But to show no respect for a QB who has put up better stats than pretty much any other QB trough 5 games is just weird.

That comment just exposed you my friend.

Allen is really good at tight window throws.

Probably his best trait, outside of running.

If you have gamepass, watch a few of his games this year. I have.

He is amazing at tight windows.

It's the touch passes he sucks at. He's more likely to miss a wide open guy than a guy who has 2 guys draped on him.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">That&#39;s quite the throw by Josh Allen<a href="https://t.co/ZfSgGMKWer">pic.twitter.com/ZfSgGMKWer</a></p>&mdash; Safest Betting Sites (@SBS_Authority) <a href="https://twitter.com/SBS_Authority/status/1316158983414128641?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 13, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/JoshAllenQB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@JoshAllenQB</a> fits it in a tight window and the <a href="https://twitter.com/BuffaloBills?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@BuffaloBills</a> are in Patriots territory. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoBills?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GoBills</a><br><br>��: <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BUFvsNE?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BUFvsNE</a> on <a href="https://twitter.com/nflnetwork?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NFLNetwork</a><br>Watch now on your ��: <a href="https://t.co/tbGyM1cXB3">https://t.co/tbGyM1cXB3</a> <br>How to watch on any device: <a href="https://t.co/9oFWSFEujX">https://t.co/9oFWSFEujX</a> <a href="https://t.co/yd7OGDAx9p">pic.twitter.com/yd7OGDAx9p</a></p>&mdash; NFL (@NFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1208542512937234432?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 22, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Josh Allen taking the under in 2nd window <a href="https://t.co/43sVmnw9Vh">pic.twitter.com/43sVmnw9Vh</a></p>&mdash; QB Film Room (@QBFilmRoom) <a href="https://twitter.com/QBFilmRoom/status/1213580246651457541?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 4, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Josh Allen with a TIGHT window throw to KB for TD �� <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bills?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Bills</a> <a href="https://t.co/PCITonyPgN">pic.twitter.com/PCITonyPgN</a></p>&mdash; Bills QB Watch (@BillsQBwatch) <a href="https://twitter.com/BillsQBwatch/status/1073428518489546752?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 14, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Your reerunation knows no bounds

I have watched every throw by Allen in the NFL and most from Wyoming.

What you call "tight window throws" are a mixed bag from the videos you used as an example. The throw to Beasley was all about arm strength and gunning it in there.

He's an NFL starter. Every NFL starter you can pull highlights similar to what you just did.

I have seen him make pretty throws against man. It's just that he doesn't like that coverage compared to zone. Watch the Tennessee game that was just played where Tenny focused on Bills primary receivers and Allen stopped even looking downfield and just kept checking down to Beasley burning 7 minutes of game clock when he needed to speed it up.

Allen right now is pretty much a one read/region read QB that struggles to process the field and doesn't throw with anticipation. That's why when he can just wait for a WR to enter his region he is reading or waiting for and then firing it in there is what he does best now.

Russell Wilson is damn near as good as Mahomes, and he certainly does not suck.

All the other QBs? I mean.... they've all got some sort of flaw (or multiple flaws) where Mahomes has none.

There. You happy? Sorry I don't believe Lamar Jackson or Deshaun Watson are even in the same universe as Mahomes. Because they're not. Period.

The Titans dropped 5 guys in coverage deep and he was taken what was given to him.

He is not on Mahomes level. I dont understand how that comparison ever came up.

But tight window throws ARE his wheel house. Its what he excels in (with running).

I've seen so many of his throws that are inaccurate and they're almost always on open guys. It's crazy.

Rodgers is playing like the Rodgers of old, so I’d throw him in there with Pat and Wilson too.

But that’s absolutely it.

There's a lot of respect for Allen here. "No respect" is a pretty strong statement.

He has a big arm so he can gun it in. Watch the NE, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh games last year. When there is pressure and his first read is taken away he looks low end.

Tenny plays zone which he likes but at least they also bracketed the primary receivers (Diggs) which made him uncomfortable.

His best game last year was against Dallas (soft zone).

Did I disrespect Allen? Not sure that I did.

We could argue about the tipped pass and whose fault that was, but let's skip that for now.

My point was simply that Josh Allen isn't on the same level as Mahomes when it comes to pre-snap and post-snap reads.

For instance;

He's not making any/good adjustments or at the line pre-snap, so apparently he isn't seeing the blitz before the snap much of the time. Fortunately for him, the Titans don't have a very good pass rush.

Then once the ball was snapped, when the pressure did come, he seemed surprised by it, which was when he tended to make bad decisions.

He also showed a tendency to lock onto receivers from the snap, which would've have been catastrophic for him against a better secondary.

Again, I don't believe I'm being disrespectful as much as just brutally honest about what I saw. Do I think that was his best game? No.

Do I think he can and will improve? Sure, probably.

But the issues I described above aren't from just the Titans game. These are issues he had last year in the game against the Texans. And the same issues he showed against the Rams a couple weeks ago. MccDermott is doing a great job this season hiding these issues for the most part, but they're obviously still there, and Josh is going to have to grow past those issues at some point to really be seriously considered a top tier QB, much less compared with Patrick.

Yeah he's not on Mahomes level and thats for dang sure.

Though someone could make some of the same arguments about Mahomes if they only watched last weeks game. He was 51% passing for goodness sake.

Is this a rhetorical question?

Right now, no. Down the line, who knows?

:rolleyes:

Just so it's clear, you're talking to a group of people here that watches 4-5 (or more) games a weekend.

There's no "only watched last week's game" about it. A lot of us watch every game televised in our area. There's people here who watch the All 22 for every game, every week.

First of all, one stat line does not a player make. Especially if we're talking about just one game. Anyone can have a bad game, just as anyone can have a really great game.

But the real difference here is that Patrick's completion rate last week was the outlier, not even close to the norm.

Meanwhile, Josh Allen's issues that I noted and described above, those have been his issues since Day 1, and continue to be his issues now.

So while Mahomes had a below average-for-him completion rate one time in the last 13 or 14 games, Allen continues to struggle with his pre-snap reads, making adjustments at the line, post-snap reads, and staring down receivers, which are the same issues he had as a rookie.

So apples vs. oranges . . .

Agreed.

Mahomes has an inherent advantage in intelligence and recognition, which is why he's reached the stratosphere so quickly, and why guys like Lamar or Allen, with remarkable athletic attributes of their own, just aren't on his level, and likely won't ever be, because Mahomes' level isn't going to remain static.

It's also telling that an 'off' day for mahomes is pretty much an average to above day for anybody else.

I still can't believe this is a legitimate thread

It's not. It's a DeBerg thread.

Josh Allen, MVP Candidate or Colin Kaepernick?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UeBe0rA6-aI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Allen keeping his team in it. Impressed

Not even the refs were impressed with his first half. They had to help so much it was obvious.

He sucks.

ROFL

I might have to apologize to you. CEH looks really good tonight

Josh made some plays when he had to at times.

But also a lot of mistakes. Not the equal of Mahomes.

Allen threw for 66 yards in the first half. 4.5yds/att. Threw the game-killing INT on command.

Case closed.

Other than arm strength, there's no comparison between the two.

Allen would truly frustrate me To death if I was a Bills fan.

He makes some really amazing plays one drive, then boneheaded throws the next drive.

He has improved a lot from where he was a year ago or 2 years ago. I think their fanbase is pretty happy with his progress.

I think this question can be permanently put to bed after watching this game.

Not that it was ever a legitimate question to begin with . . . . .

It's where Pat is far superior. Focus.

He has. But he’s inconsistent from drive to drive.

And this should be resolved in the off season.

And I for 1, could care less if Allen gets him by a few yards, could care less.
We have the better QB.

during the last bills game i said allen looks like mahomes on about 4 or 5 plays, and josh allen on the other 25 or 26

that rings true

his accuracy stinks

The ~50(?) yard pass into the end zone early in the 2nd quarter was impressive... it was a Mahomes-like flick of the wrist in terms of arm strength and was accurate.


It was also incomplete and the only memorable play he had all night...

It's like Lions fans posting a Stafford side-arm throw or Eagles fans showing a Wentz dime.


It's not one pass. It's how Mahomes does it multiple times every game.

Somehow ESPN graded Allen higher than Mahomes for this game. Does not make any sense.

Just perused the Bills forum; trust me, they're very frustrated.

Allen has a good future. I like the kid.
But he isn't no Patrick Mahomes