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-   -   Football Dak turns downs 5 year 175 million deal from Cowboys (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=331468)

DJ's left nut 05-22-2020 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14984742)
If Jerry was smart (and he's not), he would have traded Dak for 2021 First Round pick along with a few mid-round choices while heading into the season with Dalton at the helm.

They'd likely finish in the Top Ten, maybe even Top 5 because their defense needs a lot of help, and with two first rounders and say an extra 3rd and a 5th, go all in on the Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes.
But at a point there's just no such thing as 'all-in'.

If you're the Jags and you get 1.1 - there's not a Godfather offer that can even be made. They're NOT trading out of that pick. Offer 'em the RGIII deal and they still won't move out of that spot, IMO.

And it's that way for a lot of teams - pretty much any of them that may end up at 1.1. If they're sitting there, they have QB problems. And if they have QB problems, they're not gonna move out of the catbird seat for the premier prospect of the last decade or so.

Red Dawg 05-22-2020 02:15 PM
What's happened is crap teams have way over paid for ordinary QBs from from fear of starting over. Stafford, Ryan, Tanny, Cutler and so on and so forth. Now Dak is next for more money and recent history is that he should get more than the previous QB just becuse of the position.

Red Dawg 05-22-2020 02:15 PM
And Kirk. Accomplished nothing but get big money.

DaneMcCloud 05-22-2020 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14984751)
But at a point there's just no such thing as 'all-in'.

If you're the Jags and you get 1.1 - there's not a Godfather offer that can even be made. They're NOT trading out of that pick. Offer 'em the RGIII deal and they still won't move out of that spot, IMO.

And it's that way for a lot of teams - pretty much any of them that may end up at 1.1. If they're sitting there, they have QB problems. And if they have QB problems, they're not gonna move out of the catbird seat for the premier prospect of the last decade or so.
It all depends on which teams ends up in the Top 5. If the Top 5 is populated with teams like the Browns, Cardinals, Dolphins, Jets, Bengals, Giants, Detroit, Atlanta or the Rams - teams that already have their QB position set - they're going to take picks from the highest bidder.

That said, there are six possible first round QB's in the 2021 draft so if the Cowboys can't make that trade to #1 overall, they're going to get a damn good QB for far less than $30 or $35 or $40 million per, which is what Dak will cost, but without the credentials that are normally attached to a contract of that size.

But as we all know, Jerry is too stubborn to tank, even though that would most likely be his best course of action.

staylor26 05-22-2020 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14984742)
If Jerry was smart (and he's not), he would have traded Dak for 2021 First Round pick along with a few mid-round choices while heading into the season with Dalton at the helm.

They'd likely finish in the Top Ten, maybe even Top 5 because their defense needs a lot of help, and with two first rounders and say an extra 3rd and a 5th, go all in on the Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes.
This is what I’ve been telling my friend that’s a Cowboys fan for a while now.

It doesn’t even have to be Lawrence IMO. Trey Lance looks like a phenomenal prospect as well. I’m not a huge Fields fan, but as the #3 QB, he’s pretty damn good too.

staylor26 05-22-2020 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14984749)
Yeah, but if you're an NFL team you can't just say "If we don't have Mahomes, we're ****ed..."

Even if you probably are.

So you have to pick the best of less than stellar options and then figure out how to make it work. Sure, they'd like to stumble into another Dak or Wilson and have him dirt cheap for several years. But man - Jordan Love is going in the first round these days. Teams are hard up for QBs and unless they draft top 5, attempting to draft a guy is likely to yield a worse QB than what they have. The demand for young QBs is so high that any truly good bets will go top 5.

The QB market is ****ed up. Everyone knows this. But at the same time, nobody seemed to be too concerned about it during CBA discussions. If it was something the owners were really all that worried about, they'd have addressed it then.
Yea I totally get it. It’s ****ing tough.

Thank god we don’t have to worry about it.

DJ's left nut 05-22-2020 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14984777)
It all depends on which teams ends up in the Top 5. If the Top 5 is populated with teams like the Browns, Cardinals, Dolphins, Jets, Bengals, Giants, Detroit, Atlanta or the Rams - teams that already have their QB position set - they're going to take picks from the highest bidder.

That said, there are six possible first round QB's in the 2021 draft so if the Cowboys can't make that trade to #1 overall, they're going to get a damn good QB for far less than $30 or $35 or $40 million per, which is what Dak will cost, but without the credentials that are normally attached to a contract of that size.

But as we all know, Jerry is too stubborn to tank, even though that would most likely be his best course of action.
I don't think you pry that pick out of the Browns, Jets, Lions or Giants.

Because if any of those teams are picking 1.1, the Manziel, Darnold and Jones experiments will have failed (with Stafford's just running its course). Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of those teams have front offices in place that selected their incumbent quarterbacks, correct?

And ultimately I just disagree with the idea that they're going to "get a damn good quarterback" as a given, even in the top 10. Because history says its just as likely as not that they don't.

It's a lot harder to get even an average NFL quarterback than most will admit. And Dak, for everything he may not be, is decidedly above average.

Shields68 05-22-2020 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14984777)
It all depends on which teams ends up in the Top 5. If the Top 5 is populated with teams like the Browns, Cardinals, Dolphins, Jets, Bengals, Giants, Detroit, Atlanta or the Rams - teams that already have their QB position set - they're going to take picks from the highest bidder.

That said, there are six possible first round QB's in the 2021 draft so if the Cowboys can't make that trade to #1 overall, they're going to get a damn good QB for far less than $30 or $35 or $40 million per, which is what Dak will cost, but without the credentials that are normally attached to a contract of that size.

But as we all know, Jerry is too stubborn to tank, even though that would most likely be his best course of action.
I think the Cardinals and Bengals probably belong on that list.

But if the rest might just move on to Lawrence or another top QB prospect if they end up with the top pick. At least I would. I mean Cleveland is somewhat all in on this year. top pick indicates there are serious problems most likely at QB, Rams really don't need too much more to consider Goff is a bust, the Jets and Giants might just do what Arizona did last year cut your losses and upgrade (Again bottom 5/top pick means some serious problems) Atlanta and Detroit their QB's are not getting any younger and probably new coach in Detroit might be a good time to start over...

DaneMcCloud 05-22-2020 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14984793)
Because if any of those teams are picking 1.1, the Manziel, Darnold and Jones experiments will have failed (with Stafford's just running its course). Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of those teams have front offices in place that selected their incumbent quarterbacks, correct?
I don't think the Jet are giving up on Darnold, who's only 22 years old, nor will the Browns give up on Mayfield nor the Giants on Jones, who was drafted by their current GM.

Stafford? Maybe? But they've been in a position to draft Top QB's for years and continue to pass. Unless Stafford just shits the bed in 2020, I'd be surprised to see them move on from him but with Detroit, anything is possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14984793)
And ultimately I just disagree with the idea that they're going to "get a damn good quarterback" as a given, even in the top 10. Because history says its just as likely as not that they don't.
History? Sure. But the league is rapidly changing.

In years past, QB's like Cam Newton and Andy Dalton would have been swiped up before the first day of the new League Year, yet Dalton's earning $3 million this year and Newton's unsigned. Jameis Winston, the #1 overall pick just a few years ago, signed a deal with the Saints to be a backup while Mariota was signed to the Raiders.

As GM's and Head Coaches have skewed younger, so have QB's around the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14984793)
It's a lot harder to get even an average NFL quarterback than most will admit. And Dak, for everything he may not be, is decidedly above average.
We're seeing more and more teams willing to make the move from "Known" to "Unknown" when it comes to the QB position and while Dak is certainly "Known" and above average, he's certainly not worth $35 million per, let alone $45 million.

Once again, with as many holes as the Cowboys have on their current roster, paying Dak 20% or more of their salary cap seems extremely unwise.

DaneMcCloud 05-22-2020 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shields68 (Post 14984804)
I think the Cardinals and Bengals probably belong on that list.
Um, they're on that list already

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shields68 (Post 14984804)
But if the rest might just move on to Lawrence or another top QB prospect if they end up with the top pick. At least I would. I mean Cleveland is somewhat all in on this year. top pick indicates there are serious problems most likely at QB, Rams really don't need too much more to consider Goff is a bust, the Jets and Giants might just do what Arizona did last year cut your losses and upgrade (Again bottom 5/top pick means some serious problems) Atlanta and Detroit their QB's are not getting any younger and probably new coach in Detroit might be a good time to start over...
The Rams and the Falcons are stuck with their current QB's due to the salary cap. The Giants aren't moving on from Jones after two years, especially considering he played pretty well last year with a shitty team around him. Same goes for 22 year old Sam Darnold.

Detroit? Who the **** knows or even cares?

Shields68 05-22-2020 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14984820)
I don't think the Jet are giving up on Darnold, who's only 22 years old, nor will the Browns give up on Mayfield nor the Giants on Jones, who was drafted by their current GM.

Stafford? Maybe? But they've been in a position to draft Top QB's for years and continue to pass. Unless Stafford just shits the bed in 2020, I'd be surprised to see them move on from him but with Detroit, anything is possible.
Would agree, but I also do not think any of the above plan on having the first pick next year. A lot has to go wrong to be 2-14 or 3-13. Mayfield is set up to win now, to go 2-14 they are going to move on from a lot of guys. I think there is a good chance any of those play to 2-14 and does not show improvement from last year, management has to take the top QB in the draft and upgrade when you can.

DJ's left nut 05-22-2020 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14984820)
I don't think the Jet are giving up on Darnold, who's only 22 years old, nor will the Browns give up on Mayfield nor the Giants on Jones, who was drafted by their current GM.

Stafford? Maybe? But they've been in a position to draft Top QB's for years and continue to pass. Unless Stafford just shits the bed in 2020, I'd be surprised to see them move on from him but with Detroit, anything is possible.
But to get to 1.1 you're talking, what, 2-14? If Mayfield or Darnold do that, you're talking about 13-14 wins over their first 3 seasons as a starter. And who are now in their walk years in their own right. Jones may get a little more rope but there were rumors that the Giants were considering Tua and/or Herbert. Obviously they didn't go that route, but another disaster season after getting a hell of a T prospect to protect him may have them changing their minds.

Quote:
History? Sure. But the league is rapidly changing.
And yet there are still more Rosens and Darnolds than there are Mahomes. Playing QB is easier than ever, but many, if not most, 1st round quarterbacks still haven't been very good at it.

Quote:
In years past, QB's like Cam Newton and Andy Dalton would have been swiped up before the first day of the new League Year, yet Dalton's earning $3 million this year and Newton's unsigned. Jameis Winston, the #1 overall pick just a few years ago, signed a deal with the Saints to be a backup while Mariota was signed to the Raiders.

As GM's and Head Coaches have skewed younger, so have QB's around the league.
And yet Phillip Rivers just got $25 million for a season. Brady got $50 million for 2. Neither of those guys are as good as Dak right now and neither present legitimate long-term solutions at QB.

I'm not saying a dozen teams will be lining up to give him that kind of deal - but one will. It only ever takes one team.


Quote:
Once again, with as many holes as the Cowboys have on their current roster, paying Dak 20% or more of their salary cap seems extremely unwise.
Those holes are the kind that you can't just go throwing FA dollars out there to fix, though. Trying to rebuild a secondary through high-dollar FAs just isn't terribly smart. It's every bit as inefficient as 'overpaying' at QB. Their OL, skill players and DL has solid talent on it that's under contract for awhile.

They need to draft well to fill those holes, but they're gonna need to draft well to fill those holes with or without Dak. The history of big money FA additions in the secondary just isn't that great.

DaneMcCloud 05-22-2020 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shields68 (Post 14984833)
Would agree, but I also do not think any of the above plan on having the first pick next year. A lot has to go wrong to be 2-14 or 3-13.
Not really.

An injury to the starting left tackle or leading WR, defensive injuries, injury to the QB or just a shitty coaching job could easily lead to 2 or 3 wins, especially when certain teams like the Browns, Lions, Jets, Jags and Bengals are perennial losers.

Shields68 05-22-2020 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14984823)
Um, they're on that list already



The Rams and the Falcons are stuck with their current QB's due to the salary cap. The Giants aren't moving on from Jones after two years, especially considering he played pretty well last year with a shitty team around him. Same goes for 22 year old Sam Darnold.

Detroit? Who the **** knows or even cares?
They might be stuck with them on the roster, but the top QB prospect for a 2 win team is going to be under consideration. Should the Rams only win 2? No, how bad would Goff be for that to happen? Same with the Falcons. If Ryan can't get them to .500 why not find a replacement.

Shields68 05-22-2020 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14984846)
Not really.

An injury to the starting left tackle or leading WR, defensive injuries, injury to the QB or just a shitty coaching job could easily lead to 2 or 3 wins, especially when certain teams like the Browns, Lions, Jets, Jags and Bengals are perennial losers.
Sure, regardless you have to evaluate the year at the end of the season. Plans change. QB takes a lot of blame for 2 win seasons. Few if any teams with the top pick do not think they could not upgrade the position. Lawrence could very well come out with a draft grade of a Andrew Luck like level. Think that will be very hard to pass up.

DJ's left nut 05-22-2020 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shields68 (Post 14984857)
They might be stuck with them on the roster, but the top QB prospect for a 2 win team is going to be under consideration. Should the Rams only win 2? No, how bad would Goff be for that to happen? Same with the Falcons. If Ryan can't get them to .500 why not find a replacement.
And the benefit of a QB on a rookie deal is that you're never truly stuck w/ a guy unless you're WAAAAAY upside down on the deal.

Like that Aaron Rodgers deal, for instance.

Matt Ryan? You can get him traded for something, if only a 7th. He'd carry a $23 million hit for the acquiring team and unless he suffers an Alex Smith injury, someone will be willing to take that one. Dude has been quietly very good the last several years. Deal him for a 7th, take the dead $17 million in dead money, add the $8 million or so for the new QB and you're still only at $25 million for your quarterback (when you WERE at $40 million).

Goff? Yeah, he's probably right on Goff. There's a real chance that he's just not very good and he's sporting big-time guarantees in 2021 AND 2022 so you may not have much of a pool of takers there.

But do people really think the Rams will suck? I mean they won't be good and they'll get worse for the next few years because they don't have any draft picks, but we're talking 6-10 sub-standard not a 2-14 collapse.

DaneMcCloud 05-22-2020 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14984839)
But to get to 1.1 you're talking, what, 2-14? If Mayfield or Darnold do that, you're talking about 13-14 wins over their first 3 seasons as a starter. And who are now in their walk years in their own right. Jones may get a little more rope but there were rumors that the Giants were considering Tua and/or Herbert. Obviously they didn't go that route, but another disaster season after getting a hell of a T prospect to protect him may have them changing their minds.
If the Browns and Jets both finish in the Top 5, I would doubt that either team would go with yet another young QB at the helm. I didn't see any rumors about the Giants looking into Tua, which would be really surprising since Gettleman is an old school old fart and a guy that doesn't give up on players so easily.

Of course, anything is possible but that doesn't seem like the right play because ownership would be tossing the new GM and coaching staffs after a couple of seasons or in the Browns and Giants case, one season, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14984839)
And yet there are still more Rosens and Darnolds than there are Mahomes. Playing QB is easier than ever, but many, if not most, 1st round quarterbacks still haven't been very good at it.
Dysfunctional franchises ruin more NFL players than coaching or ability. Had Rosen or Darnold gone to better franchises, let alone franchises that have proven offensive-minded coaches, their careers would likely be very different at this point.

Look at Tannehill as a recent example. The dude was playing in quicksand down in Miami yet exploded in Tennessee after he was traded for peanuts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14984839)
And yet Phillip Rivers just got $25 million for a season. Brady got $50 million for 2. Neither of those guys are as good as Dak right now and neither present legitimate long-term solutions at QB.
Tampa is in the "Win Now" mode, so it made perfect sense for them to sign Brady. They have great offensive weapons and a very good defense under Todd Bowles.

The other part of the equation is this: Would Tampa or Indy have given up a 1st rounder and some change for Dak instead of signing Brady and Rivers, respectively? I think the answer is a definite "Maybe", if not a full on Yes. Both teams think they're Super Bowl ready, with their only need being at QB.

If you had a chance to get Prime Years Dak instead of old, beat up and slow Philip Rivers or Old Man Brady, maybe one of those teams bites and maybe both get involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14984839)
Those holes are the kind that you can't just go throwing FA dollars out there to fix, though. Trying to rebuild a secondary through high-dollar FAs just isn't terribly smart. It's every bit as inefficient as 'overpaying' at QB. Their OL, skill players and DL has solid talent on it that's under contract for awhile.

They need to draft well to fill those holes, but they're gonna need to draft well to fill those holes with or without Dak. The history of big money FA additions in the secondary just isn't that great.
They're likely to hover around 7-9 to 9-7 for the next several seasons. Even if the Cowboys draft well for the next few years, Dak will be 29 years old before their ready to compete for a Super Bowl.

With probably somewhere around $105 million invested in him at that point, which is just another reason why they should take what they can get for Dak and move on, IMO.

DaneMcCloud 05-22-2020 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shields68 (Post 14984857)
They might be stuck with them on the roster, but the top QB prospect for a 2 win team is going to be under consideration. Should the Rams only win 2? No, how bad would Goff be for that to happen? Same with the Falcons. If Ryan can't get them to .500 why not find a replacement.
The Rams roster is ****ed, as they've traded away multiple first round picks along with second and third round picks for players the past few seasons. They can't absorb a $78.5 million dollar Dead Money hit. They just can't. And they're not going to play a rookie over their current QB unless he's injured. The division it would cause in the lockerroom would destroy the culture that McVay has been trying to build since his hiring.

The Falcons aren't sitting Matt Ryan, period, and they can't cut him because it would cost them $69 million in Dead Money.

Not happening in 2021.

Shields68 05-22-2020 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14984881)
The Rams roster is ****ed, as they've traded away multiple first round picks along with second and third round picks for players the past few seasons. They can't absorb a $78.5 million dollar Dead Money hit. They just can't. And they're not going to play a rookie over their current QB unless he's injured. The division it would cause in the lockerroom would destroy the culture that McVay has been trying to build since his hiring.

The Falcons aren't sitting Matt Ryan, period, and they can't cut him because it would cost them $69 million in Dead Money.

Not happening in 2021.
Guess I do not see either team getting the top pick. So we have to know why they totally collapsed. But there is a chance that Lawrence comes out with a Andrew Luck can't miss rating. I would not worry about how Goff takes being benched or the team attitude, if you could go from Goff to Luck you take the deal. Ryan fine keep him a year let the Rookie sit a few games then start the second half of 2021 and cut Ryan at the end of the year. (If you can't get a pick for him which you probably can)

jallmon 05-22-2020 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 14982562)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Per source familiar with Prescott negotiations the report about a 5/175m offer with desire for $45 million in final year isn&#39;t accurate. Have been no meaningful discussions for some time between the sides so seems as if they are as far apart as they were a few months ago</p>&mdash; Jason_OTC (@Jason_OTC) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jason_OTC/status/1263523331107696640?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">To clarify any recent speculation on Dak Prescott’s contract negotiations: there have been no discussions on other scenarios other than the Cowboys wanting a longer deal and Prescott wanting a shorter deal, per source.</p>&mdash; Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1263537030480433152?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Sounds to me like Dak's camp may be leaking this offer bs to get some buzz going. Jerrah hasn't offered shit, from what we can tell.

DJ's left nut 05-22-2020 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14984881)
The Rams roster is ****ed, as they've traded away multiple first round picks along with second and third round picks for players the past few seasons. They can't absorb a $78.5 million dollar Dead Money hit. They just can't. And they're not going to play a rookie over their current QB unless he's injured. The division it would cause in the lockerroom would destroy the culture that McVay has been trying to build since his hiring.

The Falcons aren't sitting Matt Ryan, period, and they can't cut him because it would cost them $69 million in Dead Money.

Not happening in 2021.
Doesn't have to happen in 2021 to take a QB in 2021.

But again, they won't have to cut him - they can easily get him moved if they want to and the dead money drops significantly if they do because most his dead money is in guaranteed salary and not signing bonus.

Goff it where that really applies. He'll carry a $32 million cap hit in 2022 and the Rams will take a $31 million cap hit if they cut him. $22 million if it's post June 1. So if they somehow get to 1.1, they take Lawrence and he's probably starting by mid-season but then they cut Goff w/ a 6/1 designation the following year and their cap is in about the same shape as it would've been with him, but is in far better shape going forward and they have a premium QB talent on their roster to boot.

Best case scenario is he actually plays well in 2021 and they can get him traded instead of released, thus moving his $15 million roster bonus with him and saving them quite a bit. Worst case is they're no worse off in 2022 from a cap standpoint, far better thereafter and with a more talented passer for their troubles.

Very very few teams are truly in a situation where they'd pass on the most talented quarterback in the draft if he was available to them. Especially in the 2021 draft.

'Hamas' Jenkins 05-22-2020 03:49 PM
Say some team offers the Chiefs a first for Chris Jones and they take it, then said team completely implodes and the Chiefs get 1.1.

Obviously the Chiefs aren't going to keep Trevor Lawrence, but how would you auction him off?

DJ's left nut 05-22-2020 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 14984955)
Say some team offers the Chiefs a first for Chris Jones and they take it, then said team completely implodes and the Chiefs get 1.1.

Obviously the Chiefs aren't going to keep Trevor Lawrence, but how would you auction him off?
I guess I'd call the Cowboys ;)

I mean ultimately you answered your own question, didn't you? Pretty easy "highest bidder" analysis at that point. And I'd weight it more towards highest picks in 2021 in return given the weirdness of year to year performance in the NFL.

That 'high 2nd rounder' we got from SF for Dee Ford sure turned to shit in a hurry, didn't it?

So if I'm accepting bids, it's pretty much gonna be "who's gonna give me the most in 2021 because every last one of you is giving me at least a 1st in 2022 anyway..."

The return might be as big as anything the NFL has ever seen.

DaneMcCloud 05-22-2020 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14984944)
Very very few teams are truly in a situation where they'd pass on the most talented quarterback in the draft if he was available to them. Especially in the 2021 draft.
Completely off-topic but if the Rams and Chargers finish Bottom 5 in 2020, how stupid does the NFL look with two of the worst teams playing in an empty $6 BILLION dollar stadium?

DJ's left nut 05-22-2020 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14984968)
Completely off-topic but if the Rams and Chargers finish Bottom 5 in 2020, how stupid does the NFL look with two of the worst teams playing in an empty $6 BILLION dollar stadium?
I'm not sure they'd look any less stupid if both teams finish 10-6 and the Chargers draw dick again.

I will never understand their hard-on for cramming 2 teams into LA.

Megatron96 05-22-2020 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14985027)
I'm not sure they'd look any less stupid if both teams finish 10-6 and the Chargers draw dick again.

I will never understand their hard-on for cramming 2 teams into LA.
Potential TV money, I'm guessing.

DJ's left nut 05-22-2020 04:30 PM
But there's really no way for that to not be a parasitic relationship, is there?

There's not gonna be anybody that becomes a football fan BECAUSE the Chargers are there. Oh sure, they might be Chargers fans instead of Rams fans, but if the Chargers weren't there and they were football fans, they'd become Rams fans.

I just don't see how putting the Chargers in LA helped with total eyeballs unless there's some marginal benefit from the fact that one of them will be on the road (likely in the noon slot) while the other will be at 3 and so you may have the entire LA football fan market watching from noon to 6 (just watching the hometown team even if they don't root for them) rather than merely from 3 to 6.

I guess it's as good an explanation as any...

Megatron96 05-22-2020 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14985060)
But there's really no way for that to not be a parasitic relationship, is there?

There's not gonna be anybody that becomes a football fan BECAUSE the Chargers are there. Oh sure, they might be Chargers fans instead of Rams fans, but if the Chargers weren't there and they were football fans, they'd become Rams fans.

I just don't see how putting the Chargers in LA helped with total eyeballs unless there's some marginal benefit from the fact that one of them will be on the road (likely in the noon slot) while the other will be at 3 and so you may have the entire LA football fan market watching from noon to 6 (just watching the hometown team even if they don't root for them) rather than merely from 3 to 6.

I guess it's as good an explanation as any...
I'm just thinking about marketing/advertising dollars. I mean, we're not just talking about the private citizens watching from home, but the fact that every bar, sports bar, casual restaurant in SoCal will have the games on every Sunday/Monday/Thursday and that a lot of people go to such establishments to watch the game instead of staying home.

So even if only 30% or less of the customers on any given gameday are actual fans, all those eyes will see some of all those commercials. And that's big TV money. Advertisers will get charged more for game commercials, especially in SoCal because the potential audience is so much larger, even commercials before the game will be slightly more, because there's a higher chance of people actually watching as they get ready for the game.

So it's not just about actual fans of either team, but the entire captive audiences for those time slots. Which probably is at least 3 times larger than the fanbases.

DaneMcCloud 05-22-2020 05:07 PM
I've been in LA for almost 28 years and before I was able to put a Direct TV dish in my home, I was out every single weekend at what few sports bars existed in LA during that time.

95% of the customers were East Coast guys, so the Giants, Jets and Eagles dominated the TV's. I was always relegated to the smallest TV in the bar, which was generally in a corner with about 3 or 4 other Chiefs fans.

I've been out a few times since the Rams returned to LA and literally no one in these sports bars were watching the Rams. There's very little interest, even after their Super Bowl run in 2018.

As for the Chargers, there is zero interest in the team and now that Rivers, Gates and Gordon are gone, they don't even have a single marquee player for them to hang their hat on in terms of marketing.

Moving one team, let alone two teams, to SoCal was a huge miscalculation on the part of the NFL.

BryanBusby 05-22-2020 05:34 PM
No way I'm rolling with Average Ass Andy if I'm Jerry Jones. He squandered a high end receiving group with elite mode AJ Green, Sanu and Marvin Jones and a once upon a time healthy Eifert. Solid ass line too.

What did they get from all that? A bunch of one and dones.

Dak isn't great, but hell I'd make them pay too because what the **** else are they gonna do? Just reaching into the draft and plucking a new starter isn't a breeze like some people are making it out to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 14984464)
Watch Dak in Philly last year to get control of the division in the final weeks. He was absolute ass and was missing open players left and right.

That game reminds me of Alex Smith vs the Steelers.

Say what you will, but we never gave Alex top money. Andy was never that stupid.
Alex Smith wasn't on the cusp of peaking when the Chiefs extended him and had already had a big time contract.

DaneMcCloud 05-22-2020 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanBusby (Post 14985164)
No way I'm rolling with Average Ass Andy if I'm Jerry Jones. He squandered a high end receiving group with elite mode AJ Green, Sanu and Marvin Jones and a once upon a time healthy Eifert. Solid ass line too.

What did they get from all that? A bunch of one and dones.
Yeah but you're omitting the common denominator: Marvin Lewis.

Lewis couldn't get shit out of Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson all those years, just like he couldn't get shit out of Dalton, Green, Mixon etc.

Bruce Arians was able to get enough of out an old and beat up Carson Palmer to lead them to the NFC Championship game and one win from the Super Bowl, yet Lewis couldn't win a freaking playoff game in more than 8 years with Palmer at the helm.

Carson Palmer is yet another example of a player with elite abilities being relegated to the bottom tier because he was drafted by a shitty and dysfunctional franchise.

Chief Roundup 05-22-2020 08:56 PM
He Dak out played Mahomes, according to Skip Bayless, so he deserves more money than Mahomes. ROFL

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/uYveWE1Bp2g?start=491" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hog's Gone Fishin 05-23-2020 06:40 AM
It may have already been mentioned but in texas there is no state income tax.If Dak were to sign with a California team he'd be paying 12.3% so that 175 mill would have to be 196 mil just to equal out.

duncan_idaho 05-23-2020 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 14984955)
Say some team offers the Chiefs a first for Chris Jones and they take it, then said team completely implodes and the Chiefs get 1.1.

Obviously the Chiefs aren't going to keep Trevor Lawrence, but how would you auction him off?

Hey man. Good to see you posting!

That’s a really fun and intriguing hypothetical.

I mean, your asking price and return price would be stupid, so stupid it might shift the NFL draft pick value chart.

I’d ask for a team’s next 3 first round picks - and then some.

2021 1st and 3rd
2022 1st and 2nd
2023 1st and 3rd

It’s Herschel Walker trade territory. But man, the flexibility it would give KC...

Fun thing to think about that will never happen...

scho63 05-24-2020 11:33 PM
Either Dak will come out of this as one smart ballsy guy who wins at the end or so ****ed up he will look like Dak on Crack.

I'm eager to see which turn it takes......

OrtonsPiercedTaint 05-25-2020 04:38 AM
Greedy hippy

SuperBowl4 05-25-2020 05:43 AM
I would cut him. Do it Jerry.

MahiMike 05-25-2020 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD10367 (Post 14984543)
In a pre-COVID world, that was too much money to give Dak.

In this current climate, where we don't even know if/when there will be football (or for how long), he's a ****ing idiot for not running to sign that thing.

The difference between Dak leading the Cowboys and Dalton leading the Cowboys is negligible. Dak is not a game-changing quarterback. He's not Mahomes, or Russell Wilson, or Brees or Jackson or Watson or even Rodgers (although Rodgers is about to exit the "game-changing QB" club, just as Brady did last season). Those guys above can add wins to their team's total just by being under center. They deserve big money. Dak does not. Compared to what Dalton is making, they're better off putting that Dak money to good use on surrounding players.
Best post in this thread.

Valiant 05-25-2020 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 14984874)
If the Browns and Jets both finish in the Top 5, I would doubt that either team would go with yet another young QB at the helm. I didn't see any rumors about the Giants looking into Tua, which would be really surprising since Gettleman is an old school old fart and a guy that doesn't give up on players so easily.

Of course, anything is possible but that doesn't seem like the right play because ownership would be tossing the new GM and coaching staffs after a couple of seasons or in the Browns and Giants case, one season, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.



Dysfunctional franchises ruin more NFL players than coaching or ability. Had Rosen or Darnold gone to better franchises, let alone franchises that have proven offensive-minded coaches, their careers would likely be very different at this point.

Look at Tannehill as a recent example. The dude was playing in quicksand down in Miami yet exploded in Tennessee after he was traded for peanuts.



Tampa is in the "Win Now" mode, so it made perfect sense for them to sign Brady. They have great offensive weapons and a very good defense under Todd Bowles.

The other part of the equation is this: Would Tampa or Indy have given up a 1st rounder and some change for Dak instead of signing Brady and Rivers, respectively? I think the answer is a definite "Maybe", if not a full on Yes. Both teams think they're Super Bowl ready, with their only need being at QB.

If you had a chance to get Prime Years Dak instead of old, beat up and slow Philip Rivers or Old Man Brady, maybe one of those teams bites and maybe both get involved.



They're likely to hover around 7-9 to 9-7 for the next several seasons. Even if the Cowboys draft well for the next few years, Dak will be 29 years old before their ready to compete for a Super Bowl.

With probably somewhere around $105 million invested in him at that point, which is just another reason why they should take what they can get for Dak and move on, IMO.
Brady is still interesting to me. He seems to have slipped last year. And once that starts it speeds up each year. Now he is in a new system outside of slinging to gronk. Whom I hope gets busted for his roids use. to me, Brady was signed as a stop gap and sell seats.

HemiEd 05-25-2020 12:36 PM
Dak isn't worth half of that, he is an idiot.

007 05-25-2020 03:35 PM
Dak is and idiot

Bowser 05-25-2020 04:33 PM
Rule One of sports contract negotiations - never follow the Mike Moustakas plan of attack.

Kiimo 05-25-2020 04:58 PM
I think the Browns are going to be better than people predict

Pasta Little Brioni 05-25-2020 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiimosabi (Post 14988062)
I think the Browns are going to be better than people predict
ROFL

Chief Pagan 05-25-2020 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiimosabi (Post 14988062)
I think the Browns are going to be better than people predict
Browns Chargers conference championship...

Winner plays the Bears in the SB.

CarlosCarson27 05-25-2020 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Pagan (Post 14988069)
Browns Chargers conference championship...

Winner plays the Bears in the SB.
Rams or Chargers, new stadiums means playoffs

MahiMike 05-26-2020 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiimosabi (Post 14988062)
I think the Browns are going to be better than people predict
Is this from 2018?

Pasta Little Brioni 05-26-2020 12:49 PM
I saw a dumbass say LA are more dangerous with Tyrod ROFL

MeaTy The Pimp 05-26-2020 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Pagan (Post 14988069)
Browns Chargers conference championship...

Winner plays the Bears in the SB.


Boy, wouldn't that suck for Phillip Rivers To sign with the Colts only for the Chargers to finally succeed... (But that isn't gonna happen on Mahomes' watch.)

Sorry for the random thought that was a bit off topic...

Valiant 05-26-2020 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiimosabi (Post 14988062)
I think the Browns are going to be better than people predict
Did they get a new qb?

Mayfield win Percentage against teams with a winning record is Ryan leaf bad if I remember correctly.
It is his 3rd year, if he does the same he is out.

Red Dawg 05-26-2020 01:48 PM
Brady and Tyrod are wild cards. Rivers and Winston ruined their teams season. Brady and Tyrod won't.

KChiefs1 06-21-2020 02:59 PM
Dak turns downs 5 year 175 million deal from Cowboys
 
Dak is close to signing his tender.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c6083f47cf.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1e1f7a2e.plist

rydogg58 06-21-2020 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 15030856)
And only 2 of those QB's have won a Superbowl in the last 10 years. None of them in the last 5 years.

OrtonsPiercedTaint 06-21-2020 05:31 PM
The conditions should be interesting

TribalElder 06-21-2020 05:47 PM
DAK sucks, he should hall ass to go sign that tender before Jerruh realized DAK is basically Andy Dalton but costs a shitload more than Andy Dalton

Pasta Little Brioni 06-21-2020 06:53 PM
****ing let him walk

dlphg9 06-21-2020 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydogg58 (Post 15030893)
And only 2 of those QB's have won a Superbowl in the last 10 years. None of them in the last 5 years.
Because Bill, Tom, and the Pats. They've skewed everything.

Halfcan 06-21-2020 09:55 PM
Mahomes should get at least 40 mil plus.

wazu 06-21-2020 09:59 PM
One year, set for life. Would be a madman not to sign regardless of his ceiling. Looks like Dallas will give Dak the Kirk Cousins treatment.

BossChief 06-22-2020 01:05 AM
Chris Jones will be smart to sign his, too.

eDave 06-22-2020 01:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 15031489)
Chris Jones will be smart to sign his, too.
I got a general feeling that is not good. Lock in your money before you can't. Big financial decision time.

Dunerdr 06-22-2020 06:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydogg58 (Post 15030893)
And only 2 of those QB's have won a Superbowl in the last 10 years. None of them in the last 5 years.
In Russ's defense that team kind of fell apart around him. A similar argument can be made for Rodgers.

loochy 06-22-2020 06:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydogg58 (Post 15030893)
And only 2 of those QB's have won a Superbowl in the last 10 years. None of them in the last 5 years.

I'm OK with the top 3, but after that there's a huge step down

Dunerdr 06-22-2020 06:32 AM
I would think with the current covid situation that anyone with a franchise tag would be running out to sign it. Next years cap is murky at best right now.

dls6501 06-22-2020 11:07 AM
I wouldnt want Dak for anything more than $20M a season. He is no where close to a top QB and his asking price is insane.

I would legitimately rather not have a QB and draft one than invest in Dak.

Pasta Little Brioni 06-22-2020 12:32 PM
I'd go with Dalton over paying him

ToxSocks 06-22-2020 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dls6501 (Post 15031866)
I wouldnt want Dak for anything more than $20M a season. He is no where close to a top QB and his asking price is insane.

I would legitimately rather not have a QB and draft one than invest in Dak.
He's a top 10-15 QB, there's no doubt about that. Some say higher.

And you're suggesting he be paid like a bottom 5 QB.

dls6501 06-22-2020 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 15032061)
He's a top 10-15 QB, there's no doubt about that. Some say higher.

And you're suggesting he be paid like a bottom 5 QB.
I am suggesting that if I was a GM, I would let someone else pay him. I dont think he should be paid like a bottom 5 QB, but I would rather someone else make the mistake of giving him a massive contract rather than me.

When Zeke is out, Dak looks ordinary AF. When Dak plays against top teams, he looks ordinary AF.

Just personal preference, but I wouldnt want him at anything close to what he is asking for.

dls6501 06-22-2020 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball (Post 15032055)
I'd go with Dalton over paying him
Agree 100%

jonzie04 06-22-2020 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dls6501 (Post 15031866)
I wouldnt want Dak for anything more than $20M a season. He is no where close to a top QB and his asking price is insane.

I would legitimately rather not have a QB and draft one than invest in Dak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiimosabi (Post 14988062)
I think the Browns are going to be better than people predict
They SHOULD be. They have way too much talent to keep sucking. they won’t suck for forever..... I think

PAChiefsGuy 06-22-2020 02:58 PM
There's a reason Dallas hasn't won anything in so many years. Let them sign this average QB to a big contract. It's good for laugh.

R Clark 06-22-2020 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy (Post 15032384)
There's a reason Dallas hasn't won anything in so many years. Let them sign this average QB to a big contract. It's good for laugh.
I’d love to see America’s team give him that contract lol. Other than hanging shit on afc west teams, Dallas is next in line.

raidersnumber1 06-22-2020 04:09 PM
Never wanna wish it on anyone but It would be fitting if this idiot got injured and never earns even a quarter of what he declined. Greedy ****.

Deberg_1990 06-22-2020 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raidersnumber1 (Post 15032505)
Never wanna wish it on anyone but It would be fitting if this idiot got injured and never earns even a quarter of what he declined. Greedy ****.
WTF? If some team is willing to pay him what he wants, that’s not his problem.

Would you take less money at your job than what your employer is willing to pay?

raidersnumber1 06-22-2020 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 15032589)
WTF? If some team is willing to pay him what he wants, that’s not his problem.

Would you take less money at your job than what your employer is willing to pay?

ummmm hello, he declined a 5year/175M deal. He thinks he deserves more than that which is just ridiculous considering he's maybe an above average QB at best.

PAChiefsGuy 06-22-2020 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 15032589)
WTF? If some team is willing to pay him what he wants, that’s not his problem.

Would you take less money at your job than what your employer is willing to pay?
If I was a QB and making more money than I could spend in a lifetime... Would I take less so the players would be better that surround me? Absolutely yes I would and I'm sure many other people would as well. Brady did it and look at how that turned out for him. It's a shame more QBs don't do the same.

I'm not saying that a QB that doesn't do that is a piece of shit. Hell no! Get paid! Just saying lets not act that everyone puts money above everything.

Willie Lanier 06-22-2020 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy (Post 15032771)
If I was a QB and making more money than I could spend in a lifetime... Would I take less so the players would be better that surround me? Absolutely yes I would and I'm sure many other people would as well. Brady did it and look at how that turned out for him. It's a shame more QBs don't do the same.

I'm not saying that a QB that doesn't do that is a piece of shit. Hell no! Get paid! Just saying lets not act that everyone puts money above everything.
I understand your perspective and in theory it's a novel idea; but there are numerous consequences when structuring deals that way...

1 - the nflpa would lose their minds if something like that happened, all players would be under unfair scrutiny if they didn't follow suit and "take one for the team's potential future success" and that's an unfair burden to put on not only future FAs but the player in question as well...

2 - Tom Brady's career is an anomaly. He was financially set for a long while now considering his insanely wealthy wife, so that argument really needs to be thrown out of the discussion.

In a fantasy world in which players cared more about team success over personal gain, sure you have some talking points; but that world is just that, a fantasy

PAChiefsGuy 06-22-2020 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Lanier (Post 15032906)
I understand your perspective and in theory it's a novel idea; but there are numerous consequences when structuring deals that way...

1 - the nflpa would lose their minds if something like that happened, all players would be under unfair scrutiny if they didn't follow suit and "take one for the team's potential future success" and that's an unfair burden to put on not only future FAs but the player in question as well...

2 - Tom Brady's career is an anomaly. He was financially set for a long while now considering his insanely wealthy wife, so that argument really needs to be thrown out of the discussion.

In a fantasy world in which players cared more about team success over personal gain, sure you have some talking points; but that world is just that, a fantasy
Not true. Players take discounts to play for SB contending teams all the time. They aren't huge discounts but it does happen.

Also, Brady was taking discounts way before he met his wife.

DRM08 06-23-2020 08:00 PM
Last 3 seasons, Dak's record against winning teams: 6 wins, 17 losses, 25 TD, 25 INT. Yep Dallas. Pay this guy more than Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, and Patrick Mahomes. LMAO

DRM08 06-23-2020 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy (Post 15032935)
Not true. Players take discounts to play for SB contending teams all the time. They aren't huge discounts but it does happen.

Also, Brady was taking discounts way before he met his wife.
Brady was highest paid QB in the league multiple times throughout his career. He didn't always take discounts. People are demanding Mahomes take a discount on his very first chance at a big contract. Brady didn't take a discount on his first big contract after his rookie deal.

IF Mahomes is willing to go the discount direction, he needs to demand 100% guaranteed money. There has to be compromise from the Chiefs on that front. If Kirk Cousins can get a fully guaranteed deal, then Mahomes should be demanding the same treatment...especially if he's willing to give them a discount on the actual salary.


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