No, Ward is fine. Fenton is fine-ish. If the Niners want to give them large contracts, we can appreciate the compensatory picks.

Ward is quite good and playing past his compensation levels right now.

I'd rather be the team SIGNING guys like Ward than losing them.

Pretty different players, really.

Honestly, we've so heavily 'Spagified' our CB room that I don't really see another Fenton type player on the roster.

One area where perhaps we don't give Fenton enough credit is that he gets very few breaks out there. He's routinely running among the highest snap counts on the team and drawing the most difficult boundary assignments.

Sneed's CB1 here, I don't think there's any question. But even with Watson, Fenton has been the clear CB2. McDuffie almost certainly supplants him in that regard, but I don't see Fenton going to the bench.

Fenton always starts games getting isolation assignments. Sometimes adjustments are made in-game, but his degree of difficulty is pretty damn high here.

And he's just always going to be a bit ugly out there. Nobody is going to like this name, but he's very Steven Nelson in how he goes about it. He's plays a physical style without the size/strength to dominate in that regard. It makes things tough on him when he has to go against guys who simply have better physical attributes than he does.

And when he loses the rep, it's pretty damn hideous.

But he's not late stage Marcus Cooper out there. He's solid. To my eyes he's playing at a similar level to Watson but Spags is asking a little more of him. Right now I'd be hesitant to cut his reps in favor of Watson upon McDuffie's return.

But I don't think there's any question that in the long run, Sneed/McDuffie/Watson is a more than acceptable 1-3.

Ugggh....i was going to make the Steven Nelson comp but didn't wanna put that connotation on him.

But yeah. He's feisty. I like him.

Just standin around.... suckin' on my big ol' chili dog.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rtxn1Gwy5IE" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This guy might turn into a decent player eventually but right now he’s the weak link in our secondary. Fenton must have been a real a-hole for us to give him away for basically nothing.

He is a massive liability at the moment. No denying it.

Wish we would've taken Woolen instead.

It really makes you wonder they traded Fenton for nothing. CB depth is vital is this league.


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Joshua “yellow” Williams.

Every single one of you are ****ing reeruned. Has he had some legit penalties? Yeah. Have some of them been ****ing questionable as ****? Also yeah. He's a rookie. But I don't hear shit about Watson when he makes a mistake.

Williams reminds me a lot of Ward in his first year.

The ability is there. He’ll be fine.

He’s a rookie. Mistakes will be made.

Of course we’d have taken Woolen in hindsight. But he’s the outlier. I actually think Williams and Watson have shown a lot of good qualities this year. They just need refinement like any rookie would.

Both of these late rd rookies give me young Charvarius Ward vibes

He’s a smart guy who is being a little too physical at the wrong times. I’m confident he’ll put it together in time…

… but the issue is that we need him ready now. He’s going to be targeted when he’s on the field. He and Juan are the weaker links at the moment.

Looks like Sneeds injury is minor according to Rap, so that’s a relief.

He's been fine IMHO. His pass coverage has definitely been streaky but he's a terror in the running game. He kind of reminds me of Sneed his first year.

Overall I've been really happy with our young defense. McDuffie, George, Williams, Chenal, Watson, and Cook wither started or played several snaps. That's really impressive for a 13-3 football team.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chiefs rookie Joshua Williams in the AFC Championship Game:<br><br>�� 47 Coverage Snaps<br>�� 2 Catches Allowed<br>�� 1 Interception<br>�� 9.2 Passer Rating Allowed <a href="https://t.co/SUjFsn4Uuw">pic.twitter.com/SUjFsn4Uuw</a></p>&mdash; PFF College (@PFF_College) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1620113864586051584?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 30, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I honestly think he must have been a headcase. He seemed to also go crazy on the field at times. But yeah I share your sentiments.

He stepped up BIG.

With Sneed leaving early it's really that much more impressive. Dude went toe-to-toe with Chase and Higgins. Dayum.

What does that mean?

For all we know Nazee Johnson is a great corner. But he just can't get playing time behind our other three big time rookie corners.

He's been reeeeally solid on STs. You can see his closing speed but the knock on him in college was his tackling - well, he's made some big tackles. No idea what his coverage is like, or how he plays the run, but who knows, maybe there's something there.

He was really good. He's always going to suffer from the Woolen comparison but he stepped up against probably the biggest test in the game.

Noice. Think I remember him only being called out once on the broadcast and it was more just being caught in a rough spot in zone coverage on a long 3rd down.

He really impressed me in the Championship game

It’s absolutely insane that Veach landed McDuffie, Williams, and Watson all in the same draft. Our GM is the GOAT!

Williams' length, phsyicality, and speed/quickness all check the boxes.

He seems to be catching up mentally to the speed of the game and the tricks offeneses pull, too. Much better coverage down the field over the past several games.

Oof. That's right, kind of forgot he was unexpectedly thrust into full time duty when Sneed went down. Clamping down on the best WR pair in the NFL in those circumstances is ****ing insane.

Pretty sure this guy won a starting job. I remember seeing reports early in camp of him struggling, but you can just see him putting it together in the preseason and in highlights late in camp.

I think he could be a surprise breakout.

His length and quickness allow him to absolutely blanket receivers.

Does it say more good things about him or not-as-good-things about Watson? Especially since Nazeeh Johnson seemed to be getting a lot of run with the 1's before he got injured? (Though that could've been for any number of reasons.)

Williams always had more tools to work with than Watson. Watson entered the NFL as the better player (I guess) but we shouldn't be surprised that the Chiefs view Williams as the better CB now.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Joshua Williams in his last 4 games:<br><br>112 coverage snaps<br>12 targets<br>1 reception allowed, 7 yards<br>39.6 passer rating allowed <a href="https://t.co/vy28i7CksJ">pic.twitter.com/vy28i7CksJ</a></p>&mdash; PFF KC Chiefs (@PFF_Chiefs) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Chiefs/status/1750598944600494099?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 25, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Freaking incredible. I don't understand how they keep finding these guys.

I mean you look at something like this and think maybe they'll let Sneed go, just because of the sheer numbers game. We have so many goddamn studs at corner.

This is the reason we will let Sneed walk… Right or wrong, that’s what will happen..

Yeah. That’s the thing. I love Sneed, but… I mean just look at that CB lineup.

And guess what. We’ll probably draft another late round corner this year. And he’ll probably turn into a really nice depth piece.

If dropping Sneed allows us to pursue a FA WR or a Jones replacement, yeah, I’ll take that.

Hopefully we can get to a point where no one but Pat gets a second contract

We will probably draft Cooper Dejean

I agree.

I’d love to have Sneed back but if there’s any position group where you just trust Veach and Spags, it’s DB.

OR, having a player like Sneed is a large part of what allows our other guys to blossom. They're all great players, but I think they're better with Sneed.

Exactly.

Williams isn't going to have those numbers shadowing Hill. Heck, McDuffie will have to move up a step in the pecking order as well.

I think Sneed's ability to essentially do anything Spags needs him to do, up to and including locking down best WRs in the NFL, makes life a LOT easier for everyone else.

These cheapest team possible Olympics are getting insane

He's not lining up on #1's week after week.

Stats are pretty but Sneed has been that dog for two seasons. He's in his prime.

Veach would be really dumb to let him walk.

Really happy to see him improving. I’ve noticed him on the field more the last few games and it’s made me a little nervous. When I really focused on him early in the season he seemed to struggle a lot. I feel like this staff was always higher on his traits than Watson but Watson simply out played him. And often it wasn’t really close.

If you watched his college video and looked at his size and speed, it wasn’t that hard to project him being a good pro. I wasn’t the only one in the draft forum who liked him a lot. I’d hate to lose Sneed, but you guys are right in that we have a surplus of more than capable replacements.

Jones and Sneed wearing different uniforms next year is a thought I don't need at this time. :shake:

But since we're there already I would like to add the savings the Chiefs would make by cutting Justin Reid. I think it's ten million and some change. With Connor and Cook looking good it does make sense. I really like Justin Reid though. It's a tough one.

They're loading up on WR this offseason. WR limbo is coming to an end.

This. We're so ****ing spoiled with raw talent right now, that it's hard to place accurate value on what we have. But make no mistake, Sneed is a very special talent and he's playing out of his mind this season. That perfect mix of confidence and aggression. He's straight shut down some of the best receivers this season, mostly under the radar. If we could sign him for a quality long term deal, it would go a long way toward the future of this defense.

I was excited about drafting this guy. CB that's 6'3" with long arms. What's not to like.

Plus he kinda looks like a mix between JB Smoove and Orlando Jones

Nonsensical. No one is suggesting the Chiefs aren't going to spend all of their cap space on players, you're happy spending that 18m on corner, others want that spent on WR or DT or wherever else.

You kind of NEED to pay your excellent young players that second contract. For a couple of reasons-

1)You can't COMPLETELY retool every couple of years, if you can keep that to re-doing one position group per it's hard enough.

2)It sends a bad message to your locker room that you can't get paid here. That's not good.

Jones is up for his 3rd deal; that's a different story. And even now, there are times when he's not honoring his run fits because he's chasing sacks. He's a very good player, and is absolutely elite AT TIMES, but also disappears for long stretches. You don't pay him $30m per into his mid-thirties. You're not likely to get that production. 10 sacks is not worth that.

Sneed is younger, and he and Mcduffie are such a great and versatile pair that it allows Spags to do whatever he wants. You pay Sneed that second deal.

I think this one is pretty muddy in my mind, I love Sneed and do hope they pay him, but at the same time I like the corners and secondary in general that are currently under contract in 2024 a lot better than I like the WR room or DT position.

If you can keep Sneed, sign some non-jags at DT and improve the WR room with the current cap position, then great definitely do that. If you can trade Sneed for a late 1st or early 2nd round pick and that's what you need to do to improve the overall team, so be it.

I think point 2 in your list is overblown by fans, just like the "come sign for a discount and get a ring" fallacy. I would believe Sneed 100% if he says he wants to stay in KC, but if its another team offering him a 4 year 72m deal, I don't think he is losing any sleep over it and I don't think the locker room is either, they understand its a business and are happy for their friends/colleagues when they get the bag, whoever hands it to them. Plus Andy Reid is never going to lose a locker room.

Why the hell is it an either/or situation? You don't need to get rid of your elite DT AND CB to get a WR or DT.

Changing your argument now. You said not signing Sneed is being "cheap" - whether Sneed is a Chief next year or not, the roster is still going to be 53 players and they are going to spend ~$245million on them. The dumb thing you said is still dumb.

And why is it an either or? Have you heard of the salary cap? When you spend money somewhere, you have less money to spend in other places.

I am also not saying its definitely an either/or. You might be able to retain Sneed and improve at WR and only get a little worse at DT. I just don't think its a dead certainty, if you have to tag Sneed and then the negotiations drag out, you're limiting your ability to make moves in FA.

You don't have to get rid of your elite CB to get a good WR. We have options. Either draft. Or restructure Mahomes to get a WR in FA/trade.

I really can't wait for Veach to restructure Mahomes contract this off season so this myth that his contract is this huge hindrance to building a team. It's getting ridiculous. Everytime a player proves himself and is due a new contract, there's this big race to trade them and it's just getting ****ing dumb. The Ravens have paid their elite players including their QB, signed elite players, and drafted well. We should be moving like how they do not trying to recreate the Patriot way bullshit. Yeah sometimes you do have to let a player go, but to suggest we should trade and let go both Sneed and Jones is just stupid team building IMO. They have to keep one of the two. If that means making Sneed a top 5 paid CB, then so be it. Figure the rest out.

Chiefs are farther along in the big qb deal than the ravens

We're a few months away from people calling Sneed selfish and not a team player because he wants to get paid like an elite CB and people digging up obscure state to downplay how good he is.

We've been through this 100x so we'll just see what they do this off season. I bet they restructure Mahomes and get his cap hit to not be a ridiculous 60m. That's what it's going to come down to. But you guys think Mahomes and his agent forced Veach into a contract he can't work around. So yeah, we'll see.

It’s gonna be 60 million plus in the next 4 years at some point. There’s really no way around it

What do you think the Chiefs are doing?

Sneed: "Gimme $24 mill per, plz"

Chiefs: "No."

Sneed: "Why?"

Chiefs: "Here's why."

That's kind of how negotiations work. You want somebody to work for you, but you also want them for the right price.

Your Ravens argument is another dumb one.

The Ravens finished last in their division as recently as 2021. This is their first division title since 2019. The roster game is easier when you aren't in the AFC Championship every year. Success has a price, which the Ravens haven't had to pay.

And on top of that, the Ravens probably aren't even keeping all their talent next year. Both Patrick Queen and Justin Madubuike have played great, both drafted by Baltimore, and the Ravens probably can't afford to bring both of them back in 2024.

I think the Chiefs will pivot this year and get Mahomes some weapons. Gotta keep him happy. This would be the "max savings and splurge on offense" mode.

Potentially...

-Jones walks, Chiefs save bigly
-Sneed walks, avoid a big contract there
-Reid cut, save roughly $10 mil
-MVS cut, obvious reasons.

Chiefs sign...

-Tee Higgins
-Gabe Davis

(Not sure if Gabe is the best fit here, I just went with it.)

That sounds pretty amazing really. But... I think we should keep Sneed.

Yay, a receiver that has only played 65% of his games and an MVS clone!

Exactly. Give Sneed a contract that has an out the year we have to pay McDuffie. Keep those two together for a few more years.

Ravens have proven to be able to draft no matter where they are drafting. I think Veach can do that too. That's why I don't see the pressing need to trade our elite players for draft picks. We can keep our talent, add to them with our original draft picks, and sign players. And I bet the ravens don't lose both players. At worst Queen will play on the franchise tag next year.

This dynamic of every elite player being unsignable because they'd cost too much and we'd rather have draft picks is crazy though. We shouldn't re-sign Sneed for elite corner money but we can sign a RT for 80m. Make it make sense.

I mean, Tee Higgins is going to get tagged by the Bengals and either traded, extended, or kept for “one more try.” So this is all a moot point.

But if the Chiefs are walking away from their two best players on defense and flat out cutting another good one who is being paid a reasonable salary, they’d better be doing it to add a better and more durable player than Tee Higgins.

That would be horrible.

You're railing against people who are not me, by the way. I have not said anything like "every elite player is unsignable". All I said was the Chiefs might have a path to a better overall team if they could trade him. MIGHT.

I also said I hope the Chiefs can and do re-sign him. You are right, they can restructure Mahomes to sign players in 2024 but that just pushes some of his cap hit into 2025, 2026 etc and fans like us probably can't do the multi year analysis to know how feasible that is or how much can be pushed forward. You can't just push money forward like that forever, or you end up like the Saints.

I can try and make it make sense to you. In the salary cap world, competitive advantage is getting performance well above the fair market value. If you are paying all your players exactly what their performance suggests they should be paid and so is every other team then you have parity in the league.

Sneed is being paid the league minimum to play like the leagues best, that is an insane competitive edge. Paying an elite player for elite performance is not really an edge, as other teams have the same.

In theory if you trade him, you can just spend the money on an elite free agent and then use the additional draft pick for another player who plays at a level that is higher than their remuneration, because their remuneration is fixed for 4-5 years.

And yes, you are right the Chiefs can get this competitive advantage from their own draft picks. But every team has draft picks, so now we are back to parity again, you have to draft better than other teams. If someone will give up a premium draft pick to you, now you have a bigger edge. You have more cost controlled players, more chances to get players playing above their pay check.

It's a risk, because you need to find someone who is elite to spend the money on and hit on the draft pick. But when it works, you trade Tyreek Hill and then win a Superbowl.

Ick. That would be horrible

Not a fan of either Tee Higgins or Gabe Davis. Would rather spend $ on a $10M-$15M vet for two years (Mike Evans) so we can keep Sneed. Losing CJ will hurt but we should tag and trade to get some capital back while keeping dollars for others like Creed and Bolton and (maybe) Tranquil.

If we let Sneed and Jones go for Gabe Davis and Tee Higgins, I’ll go from one of Veach’s biggest supporters, to his single biggest detractor.

Gabe Davis completely goose-egged in at least 2 (maybe 3, I don’t feel like looking it up) full games this season, and Tee Higgins is a brokedick.

I’m all for getting Mahomes some weapons, but giving either of those two guys big money would more than likely end up being a mistake.

The crazy thing is you could legitimately let Jones and Sneed walk and, as long as you add at least 1-2 solid d-lineman during the draft and free agency and keep Tranquill, and you still have a top 10 defense next year.

Maybe you do just load up on weapons on offense. I could see it happening.

So yeah Josh Williams

Compared to what? I dont want Gabe Davis either but Mahomes with

Higgins
Rice
Davis

Damn near unstoppable offense and we'll likely get guys even BETTER than that. Im sure Mahomes is sick of this shit from this year.

Tee Higgins has only played 65% of games in his career. Gabe Davis is a deep threat with inconsistent hands and with chemistry issues with his QB aka MVS.

Aim higher.

Completely unstoppable until you need Higgins available or throw a ball to Davis into actual coverage. **** both of those losers. They’ve got a rep on cp built off of luck.

For the 12 games a year Higgins plays and the 4 games a year Gabe Davis catches the ball/shows up, maybe.

I know Sneed and McDuffie get the press (and deservedly so), but how often did you hear Josh Williams name called for giving up completions in the playoffs? Part of the secret of our success is just how good the depth at CB is now.

There isn’t a team in this league with a better trio of corners. Josh Williams is criminally underrated. Granted he’s not covering the top guy most of the time but still incredible how well he’s played this year.