They did that with Hardman and Tyreek. They both started as ST’s mainly like Skyy is as rookies.

Me at the start of TC LAST season, "Hey they're gonna have to rebuild this WR room next season. Looking forward to that DL/OL type overhaul Veach does!"

This offseason: Me: "Sweet they're rebuilding it. But if JJSS is the feature of this "rebuild" that's going to be incredibly disappointing"

Also this offseason: Me: "Please god don't take an undersized small catch radius WR like Skyy Moore"

"No Detoxing, you don't know what you're talking about, you're wrong!"


....and here we ****ing are. With WR's who can't get open and a 2nd round draft pick that hasn't shown enough to get on the field.

Oh and Beineimy needs to ****ing go too.

Lord man, I've said to start the guy because I feel like he MIGHT be able to be a man beater on a roster that doesn't have one.

I'm not being particularly hard on the guy at all. I've given him plenty of rope.

Dude's hung the shit out of himself with it thus far. This is a Skyy Moore issue, not a Detox or me issue. The guy played as big a role as anyone on this roster in costing us a football game yesterday and he did so with MINIMAL responsibilities.

He's hurt us more than he's helped. By a lot. But you have a tendency to oversell criticisms of 'your guys', just as you did with Hardman and Clark and others before them.

Nobody's being unduly critical of Skyy Moore. He's simply not performing at the level many expected of him, including you.

Tyreek was a converted RB, FFS. Not the same thing at all.

Skyy was suppose to me a lot more polished than Hardman and Tyreek. He actually played WR.

His great, polished route running was supposed to be his thing, remember?

Quit with the Skyy Tyreek/Hardman comparisons.

And IF that IS the angle you wanna cling to, then again.....draft some actual ****ing WR's who can come in and play early.

"The Chiefs start rookies at literally every other position other than WR" is not a real thing by design. Stop convincing yourself it is.

This. Quit telling me all this great shit he can do. Get on the field and do it. There isn't a person in the world that thinks MVS or Justin Watson are these supreme talents that you just can't displace.

Ya'll acting like he's got the Bengals' trio in front of him or something.

If Skyy Moore is all that and a bag of chips, then direct me at who i should be angry at then.

Wylie is a much smaller problem than OBJ right now, IMO.

Can we at least get him on the field? Can we at least start there?

Right now he can't even get on the field so we can actually evaluate him.

Why the **** not?

OBJ was awful last game. IDK WTF happened.

You should probably be mad at the guy who started Jeremy Maclin as a rookie ahead of Jason Avant (who I'm more and more convinced was JJSS before JJSS) and the previous year's starter in Reggie Brown.

Just as I said with the RB stuff - if Reid has the horses, he plays those guys. Except for OL; I think sometimes with OL he values continuity over everything. But with skill position guys, if you can play, he has you on the field.

There's SOMETHING missing with Moore right now. And those who suggest that may be the case aren't being unreasonable. Especially not when they simultaneously say "but hey, kid has some physical tools that the vets on this roster don't appear to have so maybe get him some run out there..."

The fact that I hear more from Mahomes about Justin Watson than I do Skyy Moore means something. I'm not 100% sure WHAT just yet, but there's something to that.

Why do you hate Skyy Moore, Detox?

Rookie CB's? **** it we'll start two of them!

Rookie Safety! Hell yeah.

Rookie C? You know it!

Rookie G? Play that mofo.

Rookie RB? Hand that foo' the rock.

Rookie DE? Chase that QB, big boy.

Rookie LB? Take Hitchens' job and don't look back.



But a rookie WR? "Oh we gotta redshirt those guys. The system is just sooooo haaaaard"

GMAFB dudes, you really think that's what's happening? That the Chiefs are willing to start a rookie at every position BUT WR? Really? Sheeesh.

Everyone has figured out if you run speed at him, he will look like asshole.

Bc he dropped that punt. That put him in the doghouse for that game IMO.

They also played on a short week last week.

I agree though. Get him on the field.

And judging by Hardman’s bad play that won’t take long

It was obvious enough yesterday that it damn near looked schematic.

But I wonder again if that's not another outgrowth of how mismatched this roster and the RPO are.

Because RPO looks do have you starting with a bit of a run set before getting back. You have to be prepared for the possibility of a run and kick-stepping back at the snap won't let you do that.

This team needs to scrap the RPO in the worst way based on its present roster. The RBs don't have the speed for the OZ concepts that arise from it. The WRs don't have the chemistry or get-off to take advantage of it and the OTs don't have the athleticism to recover from it when Mahomes pulls the ball.

This ISN'T the 2019 roster anymore. It's time to stop pretending that it is.

This team, as shitty as it is to say, Needs to just active Ronald Jones, use the FB and multiple TE's and just fire off the ****ing ball and run it up the ass. Use PA to create space for Pat.

Yup.

This is the most conventional group we've had since Hill was drafted.

We have to react accordingly. Trying to force your system on a mismatched roster is a recipe for disaster.

Yes. ****ing yes. The list of examples is a looooong one. Reid isn't some dude who doesn't play rookies. If the guy can play, he plays them! We have examples of this every single year. Every year, dudes.

But because Tyreek Hill, who was a converted RB in college, took a season to marinate (and was still targeted 83 times his rookie year btw, because Reid played him) Chiefs fans have convinced themselves that "WR's take a year because it's sooo hard".

It's....bullshit.

We haven't been good at drafting playmakers, it is what it is.

That's a lame excuse. Not buying it. They're not going to remove him from a game plan over a dropped punt.

They simply never intended on using him much more than a few breather snaps.

They're not gonna draw up routes for the dude and then not run them over a muff.

Nothing about DK was obvious, except for the fact he looked great shirtless

He lasted till the end of the 2nd round for reasons. DK being an elite receiver was a big surprise. Dude didn’t do much at Ole Miss. Hardman and DK both had pros and cons as prospects.

Obviously Veach was wrong but it wasn’t some obvious miss at the time. No front office in the NFL saw them as 1st rounders, which is why both were available in the 2nd

Replace DK with McLaurin then.

Dk Metcalfs con was his 3 cone, so people got all indignant about it...lets not factor in that a dude the size of a TE that runs faster than 99% of the league is probably gonna get open even if he doesn't cut super fast.

I mean this team thought it was more valuable to draft CEH than Tee Higgins.

I don’t understand why we don’t. You have to guess that Bienemy wants to run the ball.

I may be wrong, but I think he also had injury concerns and barely any college production. Which makes you ask why a guy that big and fast can’t produce in college.

That's the real problem. They didn't build to the overall scheme. The way they use RB's, they should never invest that highly in the position.

I mean, say whatever about CEH - he's still an NFL RB. So is McKinnon.

We don't run the ball enough, or correctly. That's the real issue.

To be fair it's kind of a complacent coaching staff too, outside of 1 or 2 guys it's the same voices every year.

Exactly.

WHAT?

A 6-4 chiseled adonis that runs a 4.3 forty who's game is based on getting downfield and taking the top off a defense? You couldn't predict that'd be a good match with Mahomes?

Seemed pretty damn obvious to me.

I was pining for the guy the entire offseason. A lot of people were.

To me, it was obvious. As obvious as Mahomes was. As obvious as Pickens should've been.

But hell, what the **** do i know?

Apparently i know that sometimes you don't need to overthink shit. The people who doubted Mahomes over thought it. (Oh my god! look at his footwork! Oh my god, that'll get picked in the league!) Those who doubted Metcalf, over thought it. (Oh my gosh, did you see his cone drill? oh he can't play in this league!)

I’ll agree with this.

The interior of the line is too talented on paper to be so unproductive in the running game.

If I give you a piece of cheese, two slices of bread, some butter, and a skillet, just make a damn grilled cheese. You aren’t turning that into prime rib no matter how hard you try.

People thought a guy that big and fast couldn't figure out how to cut and turn left. LMAO

Yep

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mahomes pointing out the hole to CEH ... he ended up bouncing it and getting tackled for a loss <a href="https://t.co/RWjs5VlOq3">pic.twitter.com/RWjs5VlOq3</a></p>&mdash; Steven Ruiz (@theStevenRuiz) <a href="https://twitter.com/theStevenRuiz/status/1574193604838440962?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 26, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

They refuse to stop with the shitty OZ and read option bullshit. Just pound the ****ing rock, the interior of the line is more athletic than the OT's for christ sake.

Something being lost here on how this team doesn't adapt...they keep not activating Ronald Jones for games when he's the best ball carrier they have. They'd rather have 3 guys who are similar to each other...what's that say?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> snap count vs the Colts. <br>-Skyy Moore up to 9 on offense this week<br>-Joshua Williams no defensive snaps <br>-Leo Chenal only 11 on defense <a href="https://t.co/gghjmcNGOG">pic.twitter.com/gghjmcNGOG</a></p>&mdash; Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jacobs71/status/1574354905334251523?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 26, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Exactly.

He's been awful all ****ing season.

Also if you like Pacheco because of his speed fine..pick between CEH and McKinnon, it just feels like they don't wanna admit a cheap afterthought FA signing is better than a 1st round pick.

McLaurin wasn’t an obvious miss either. 3rd rounder, everyone passed on him twice

Veach should’ve drafted Tee Higgins instead of CEH. And he probably should’ve drafted Pickens instead of trading back and getting Moore, even though I personally didn’t like Pickens

OBJ being "awful" is an overstatement. He hasn't been awful for the entirety of 3 games.

It's just that he's not good enough to consider paying like a top tackle.

Definitely starting to look like this might be the case all year. Hopefully he improves. If not then we might be fortunate that he thinks he’s worth more than KC did.

There have been plenty of athletic marvels who amounted to nothing in the NFL. Guy had little production at Ole Miss, so that pointed to him not being able to consistently get the most out of his physical talent

This always goes one of two ways

If he was drafted and bust, everyone laughs: “no stupid, you need skill, route running, and smarts to be a good WR, not just athleticism. He’s a track star not a football player!”

Then when the stud actually becomes an elite player: “This was so obvious. Dude is as big as an LB and runs like a gazelle. How could you not draft him in the 1st round?”

Agreed.

I thought before the tag that he'd probably get top 3-5 money.

He's definitely not even worth that.

And if he wants to be the highest-paid LT in the game, that make the decision very easy. Let him walk.

I didn't think he was bad against the Chargers.

He was shit against the Colts though. Knocked on his ass. Ran around. Tripped over his own feet. He had a bad game. And i don't even know hte name of the guy he was facing.

Right.

The Colts have a lot invested in their line in money and picks, Kwity Paye killed him several times.

Yup. He might get the Mathieu treatment from NFL teams. That might humble him some.

Nah, **** that. He's been AWFUL. We had to play the Chargers with a significant neutralizer since Reid and co had absolutely no faith in the Ts to hold up. The Cardinals may be one of the most talentless DLs in the NFL and Brown still managed to yield SEVEN PRESSURES. He's an absolute massive liability that needs replaced now.

I’m curious what OBJ thinks of his performance and value.

I would guess that he thinks the system just doesn’t fit him, because we know he was an effective OT for Baltimore in their system. He was a mauling run blocker for them, and we can’t seem to run even with this IOL.

Fine, we can agree to disagree on his level of suckitude.

We won't disagree on what needs to happen now, though. I agree it's time for him to go. There's no contract he can get in KC that is good for the team. They simply have to let him go. He's not worth it.

Hey we gave up a 1 for him so they'll pay him and keep running him out there right? That's gotta be the only reason CEH is still playing.

I mentioned this in the GDT, but he made Ngokue (or however it was spelled) look like Reggie White. For a guy who wants to make top 5 LT money with a ton guaranteed, he did a poor job showing why he deserves it.

"didn't look bad against the Chargers". Of course he didn't look bad. Reid specifically game planned to cover him and Wylie as liabilities, at the expense of a pretty significant amount of offensive potency.

Unfortunately for him very few if any teams in the league run an offense like Baltimore.

I ****ING HATE CEH
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdionXZW...name=4096x4096

This is the play he bounced and took a loss on

We gave up a 2nd for him. And I don't think that matters. Veach isn't afraid to make business decisions.

And if that's the case, you let him walk.

There's no way they can give him a contract now because he simply won't accept what he's actually worth.

He almost had to quit football bc of a neck injury. That had a lot to do with it

Exactly! The only thing that would keep Veach from making that decision is if it’s more affordable to keep him than cut him ala Clark.

True and my point is how does this guy justify thinking he’s worth being paid like the top OT in football right now?

I understand wanting to be paid that way. Every OT wants that, but does he really think his performance commands that much money?

My thought is that if he really believes that, then he’s blaming the scheme in his head.

Yup. The biggest mistake KC could make is to cave in. His last contract that he was offered reflected the possibility of him improving while at the same time creating safeguards in case he did not. It goes to show a lot about what they really think of him long term.

Idk what we are gonna do to replace him. Good LT’s are not exactly available.

Will be interesting to see

SOmetimes I pray Justin Ross is that guy next year

Oh I agree with you. He might have thought KC was gonna cave based off of necessity. Veach doesn’t do that. He can continue to think what he wants, but just like Mathieu, he will get a large serving of humble pie when reality sets in and no team gives in to his demands.

Not even Baltimore wants to run that offense anymore.

If he doesn't improve, he can go be the highest paid LT for a team that doesn't throw the ball. (pssst. There isn't any).

I'm an OBJ guy. I think i give him more rope than a lot of people. I even predicted the Chiefs would trade for him.

With that said, the Chiefs CANNOT pay him #1 LT money. He just aint that guy.

For as good as our OL is suppose to be....why is that i feel like these other QB's have more time in the pocket than Mahomes?

Why is it that when i watch Herbert and Allen they seem to have clean pockets to throw from?

Do what they should have done in the first place, trade up in the draft. Should have traded up last year for Slater. Would have been costly but in the end with OBJ being a failure the cost to go and get a LT now isn’t any more.

Veach will figure something out. At his current performance level, KC could get someone close but significantly cheaper. Reid could always scheme to protect him until we get a long term solution in place.

After yesterday, I don't care.

Replace him with a 2nd or 3rd rounder. He's not good enough for what we're paying him. He most certainly doesn't deserve MORE.

Mahomes was playing like it was SB55 again at times yesterday. Just an immediate mad dash around when he senses even the slightest pressure. We're watching his trust in the OL deteriorating in real time and it's just not sustainable if we have any sort of ambition this season.

Those teams built athletic pass blocking lines for their passing schemes, we have a big road grading line for a pass heavy scheme..

Humphrey and Thuney are basically good enough to play in any scheme..Smith is close to that but he's more run blocker than pass blocker and the OT's frankly aren't that good.

You can hide a marginal guard, hiding bad tackles is impossible unless you want to limp your offense.

Our OLine up the middle is strong. On the ends they are not. Wylie for what he is paid is better than OBJ right now.

You help bad tackles by interior running, play action, and stuff.

You don't help them by running RPO and long-developing outside draws.

Teams know they can just pin their ears back.

The T's get some bad looks because Mahomes drifts at times as well.

Absolutely this.

For all the bitching about Wylie, he's actually been okay considering his salary.

If we could get a guy like Wylie on the left side, we could actually afford to do some more things to help the rest of the team.

It all comes down to money and OBJ just isn't worth it.

And yes, somewhere a long the way, Andy Reid became really stubborn about how he would do things. There was a time he was winning games with ****in AJ Feeley and Koy Detmer. Now he won't acknowledge his run scheme sucks for his personnel.

OBJ was absolutely horrid yesterday, this must be addressed and soon. I still think if you have a speed rusher move Thuney there for the time being. He actually looked good in that role a couple times last year.

Not buying it. This isn't 2020.

BTW, have you been watching Allen?

I swear to god he drifts like Mahomes '19.

It brings me back to my earlier point. I hate how we're convinced that Mahomes needs to be Tom Brady.

Meanwhile, we're watching other QB's have success playing like vintage Mahomes. It's really starting to bug me.

'21/'22 Allen is basically '18/'19 Mahomes in terms of playstyle right now.

Meanwhile we keep asking Mahomes to be '16 Brady.

LMAO

I love how you treat GMing like Madden.

They should've just traded from 31 to the top 12 huh? Do you know what teams specifically were willing to trade that far back? Do you know what the asking price was?

JFC you're a moron.

Thuney to LT, Allegretti to LG, and Brown Jr. To RT probably is the best we could do to rectify the situation going forward, even if it is a far from perfect solution.

Win from the pocket. Always.

The other stuff is great and there when needed. Win in there first.