That's actually the underlying legality of the situation, as simple as it seems. It's not illegal to watch a pirated stream. It's illegal to host a pirated stream.

It's morally wrong to knowingly benefit from someone else's illegal activity, but your correct it isn't technically breaking the law. Some people have morals and some don't when it comes to getting what they want.

ever drive over the speed limit?

Am I taking something from someone else if I drive over the speed limit?

Here's a better example:

Have you ever been sober and rode in one of your friends cars as they drove drunk? You wouldn't technically be breaking the law in this instance, but you would be morally bankrupt for doing so.

If we are really going to say someone using a stream to watch a game doesn't have morals.

Yes man watching that illegal stream makes you a terrible person that has no morals.

We're including greedy as **** corporations, too, right?

Never called anyone a terrible person. Please pay attention to the bolded part.

Is it morally right for the NFL or really any company to continue to raise the price of a product that doesn't increase in quality or quantity?

I mean shit this is the Netflix business model, lose content, create worse content, raise prices.

Comparable to risking lives by letting your mate drink drive apparently.

Lol there it is.

YOU WOULDN’T DOWNLOAD A CAR

It shits me to no end when people blindy defend paying increasingly ridiculous amounts for a worsening product.

Weird flex. But I'm sure the view is nice from way up on that horse.

It makes no sense...

If a company like for example my power company can just arbitrarily raise my rates because they feel like it when it's not like I can switch to another one...there is no competition for this. For no other purpose than to increase revenue for shareholders, then rest assured if I can find a way to get the same thing for less I will do it.

Just funny how they are perfectly fine price gouging people but people who retaliate are the bad ones.

Is raising the prices on a product people are willing to pay for that they have the choice to not pay for morally corrupt? Everyone would be much happier if they would keep this in their brain: Corporations exist for one reason and one reason only, to make money. Our capitalist system affords us ways to affect prices by "voting" with our business. Don't like the price of a product, don't "vote" for that product by purchasing it, but don't actively steal it and drive prices further upward for those that do enjoy the product.

The NFL should start a "don't be morally bankrupt" campaign against illegal streaming while they sign another billion dollar deal with Hulu or whatever.

Sounds like a great comedy skit.

And people who somehow see no issue with it are part of the reason why it's possible to ream the customer like that in the first place.

Honesty one of the oddest forms of moral grandstanding.

They are not losing money because people are streaming.....I would bet anything if they took away illegal streams those people would not pay for any of the services. The NFL would lose them as fans and would overall lose money from that.

But don't tell me a league that makes billions on tv contracts is losing money because of illegal streamers.

We call this worshipping at the altar of capitalism, lots of people do it.

Go back and watch past NFL games and tell me the product is worse in quality and their are more games on television now than there ever has been.

Gee, I wonder why Netflix is raising prices. I wonder if it has anything to do with how many people share their accounts with friends and family?

And as they crack down on that..they'll lose watches as opposed to gaining new subscriptions.

This idea that you must have infinite growth is why stupid shit like this happens.

Did you see the phrase "losing money" in reference to the NFL in anything I posted?

I don’t give a shiitake about your lack of morels.

Absolutely! As I said in an earlier post, I'd just go to a local bar to watch the game. So as far as getting me to buy extra services, the nfl still loses

Which streamers are doing.


That's literally the opposite of what's going on here. The NFL will charge what people are willing to pay.

My impression is that US customers have been getting screwed for years. Now international customers are too as the price goes up and existing features like DVR, full hd/4k quality and downloadable content are removed because the NFL would rather sell GamePass to the highest bidder than improve the product.

Remember when everyone downloaded music for free off the internet because it was easy? Now no one hardly ever does that because the music industry made it easy to stream stuff for free with ads. Or you can pay a little bit to avoid the ads.

The sports industry views it as losing "$28 billion" but let's be real. The people who are streaming would pay the 28 billion if they thought it was worth it. It's not packaged right for the everyday consumer to get good value out of it.

Yeah, I know the basics of economics.

And I also know how monopolies operate to put a stranglehold on prices and being able to do whatever the **** they want because well, you're a monopoly. There's a reason they aren't technically legal.

Yeah, I could "vote" and deprive myself of things I really enjoy, but you know just as well as I do that my vote means jack shit... so, I deal with TicketMaster fees, paying ridiculous prices for services that don't deliver the product I paid for, etc. And yeah, I'll stream a game here and there for all the reasons I've mentioned.

To answer your question.... I'd guess most people consider monopolies to be morally wrong/unethical, and I do as well.

Streamers aren't saying "I don't like your product at that price point and refuse to consume your product because of the price." They are saying: "I don't like the price of your product, but I love it enough that I am willing to partake in the illegal activity of stealing it and I'm fine with others paying for my share of it."

The mental gymnastics some of you will go through to justify the stealing of content is amazing. I'd rather you just say that you know it is wrong and you are going to do it anyway because you ****ing don't care. I can respect that in some odd way.

And if I really have to clarify, it would be "act as a monopoly".

We all know there isn't enough talent to spread across the NFL, much two leagues.... but, that doesn't mean they have to operate as a monopoly.

Ya know, if they had any morals.

With that gigantic amount of ads that are in every game that disrupt the flow of the game can you really claim anything is being stolen?

For the record I don't use illegal streams. I just don't blame those who do. Not everyone can afford to be price gouged.

There's also little evidence that content piracy impacts sales in any substantial way, when it comes to massive corporations.

LOL, dude... you can't tell us we're the ones doing mental gymnastics and act like this is a valid response.

You damn well know there's only one Patrick Mahomes.

That's like saying you don't have to use ticketmaster to watch Smashing Pumpkins, just go down the street and watch that garage band of teenagers if you don't like it.

Acting like a monopoly is bad for consumers and isn't any more ethical than getting around the bullshit of acting like one.

Anyway. I will continue to stream as a single tear will run down lonewolfs cheek in defense of the billionaires.

Ads are someone else's product that they are paying for in an effort to increase their business. You are not being forced to partake in their advertisement or act on them in anyway. You are free to mute your TV, take a piss, go to the fridge, or watch TikTok videos. Again, mental gymnastics.

Bearcat has the correct response. He streams games because he ****ing streams games and he doesn't care if it can be looked at as stealing.

I mean I don't think anyone really "cares" the only people who get super indignant about this are either older or don't understand how it works...

The overwhelmingly majority of younger people are perfectly fine finding a stream for something. Hell lots of people pirate all kinds of shit from movies to games etc etc.

I'm so tired of this, every hobby is becoming so expensive I might as well just not do anything other than work, chores and stare at the ****ing wall.

I deleted my post because I didn't see your clarification on the definition of a monopoly before I posted it, but the argument that their is only one Patrick Mahomes is dumb as shit. The talent within the product isn't what makes it a monopoly. Their is only one Classic Coke. Does that mean that Coca Cola has a monopoly?

Hell, I have a pirated Mahomes jersey that looks damn near identical to the authentic Nike. Long live the pirates, matey!

$80 a year minimum to use the internet you pay for…to play the console you already paid for. Ridiculous.

Didn't expect to be reading Napster-era debates in 2023.

For example...

I pirate EA games, know why? They have stolen enough of my money over the years on pure dogshit products I don't trust them enough to give them 70 dollars sight unseen.

It might be worth it if they would improve the extra tier like for example xboxes gamepass beats it's ****ing ass, yet sony want more.

Explain to me why the show 23 is available on xbox game pass but not on sony's game service? It's a ****ing sony game what the ****?

Streamers are collectively the reason why Patty isn't paid as much as he should be.

Edit: and why we haven't signed Chris Jones yet.

I hope everyone who was part of that learned a valuable lesson...Pat you do not want to be Lars Ulrich, don't say anything.

It's absolutely the level of competition that defines whether you can act as a monopoly.

If Coke only had to compete with Cheerwine or Moxie, they could act as a monopoly and basically do whatever the **** they wanted.

It's obviously not the NFL's fault that there's only so much elite talent out there, but it's absolutely their fault to take that advantage and act as a monopoly. If the XFL or whatever they're called could compete, you'd see HUGE changes in blackout rules and the availability of games and so forth.

They would be forced to act ethically in a competitive market, where as right now they aren't and don't.

Blackout rules are literally something that were invented what 40+ years ago?

Maybe they should I dunno get with the times.

I have to admit that there isn't much I can argue about in this post. Great argument and really good post.

When you have an elite product like the NFL then you can get away with that. Not trying to get political here but that's the market. We've seen big companies lose money from the market.

Spot on.

The NFL is doing just fine.

No its not, I'm documenting a crime. I've submitted 100's of tips to the FBI about Illegal streams over the years.

So many so I've gotten replies back stating... and I quote

"Thanks BleedingRed, keep up the good work and surveillance! You are one of the good guys that truly has amazing morals!"

So.... Check mate

Yes. The price of a good or service is essentially as high as possible to maximize profit. If people would buy Netflix for $90 a month then Netflix should charge $90 a month.

Yeah I mean if the price of something gets to high...just steal it. Amirite?

Take a victory lap.

And we wonder why everyone is broke.

When you go to sell your house or car be sure to price it much less than what the market price for it is. I'm sure you will do that.

Tell me again about infinite growth.

Do you apply this same thought process to something like big pharma? You know when US tax payer dollars are given as grants to colleges for R&D for drugs then a pharma company buys it and makes it way expensive?

Crony Capitalism is real

My biggest beef is with ESPN. I don't care about Sunday Ticket since Chiefs are on locally via OTA almost every non primetime game. I just cancelled DirecTV Stream since the cost has gotten out of hand and I rarely watch live TV except for football.

Figured I'd just get ESPN+ but found out their own streaming service doesn't stream most of the MNF games. Only way to get MNF is with a cable/streaming package that has the ESPN channel. NFL+ seems to be the only option but it's only on mobile or tablet it appears.

It's perfectly acceptable for insulin to cost 1000 dollars a vial bro think of the shareholders.

LoneWolf, is it "stealing" if I don't pay for any of the streaming services but watch all the games at my local sports bar?

Yeah, that bar paid the Sunday Ticket or cable price or whatever, but by offering the games for free, they're stealing dozens of customers that would otherwise be paying for this service, right?

Hell, it's even worse. They're using the NFL to gain customers and make money, and the NFL isn't getting a single cent of commission per customer that walks in that door. All the bar does is pay the flat rate for Sunday Ticket or whatever it is they use.

You "stole" that view is such a weird concept.

"You're not allowed to look, that's stealing!".

It goes right along with where tech is right now, everything is "intellectual property" and they don't want you to ever own the good just be allowed to use it.

With what you spend on subs, you should maybe cut back and try reading a book. Maybe even a comic book to get started.

It will help with your overall education but probably not because you’re pretty much a ****ing tard.

right, like the games you have to have internet to ****ing play.

BRING BACK CD's!

My PC doesn't even have a disc drive...

As for the whole moral discussion about illegal streams going on here, aren't the advertisers who ultimately are footing the bill for these NFL contracts still getting the eyeballs anyway?

Apples meet oranges. A bar showing the game is very similar to someone coming over to your house to watch the game. It is a finite group that can partake in that and they have to physically be there. One illegally hosted stream could theoretically reach millions of people.

And if a McDonald's worker is worth $2.50 per hour, then McDonald's should pay the worker $2.50 per hour.

I don't even need it, but I'm sold. I'm going to stream games this year.

I actually agree with this. I agree with getting rid of minimum wage. If companies like Wendy's, McDonalds, Burger King, etc...had to compete with each other for workers, there wouldn't be this race to the bottom and minimum wage be what these types of jobs paid everywhere. If McDonalds decided it was going to pay their workers $2.50 per hour, they would either have no workers or they would have the worst workforce in the industry and their business would suffer and eventually die off.

Instead, what I think you would see is Wendy's would decide to pay workers $9.00 per hour. Wendy's would start to steal all the good labor and have the best customer service so they would start to steal business away from their competitors. Their competitors see this and they would raise their wages to $10.00 per hour and this cycle would continue until you reach the level where talent/worth equals pay and their would be a natural order to things.

Sort of but not really... they have to be able to measure eyeballs to price their product, and theoretically streaming prevents them from asking the networks for more money.

Or in other words, if ratings were more accurate and accounted for everyone who's actually watching, they could charge more.

Once the contracts are signed, the NFL and probably even the networks couldn't give two shits whether you actually watch the commercials.

Companies would just stagnate wages so that the workers had no choice but to take what they could get. Wendy's would put their shit at like $3.50 an hour.

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Me when i'm illegally streaming games on Sunday:

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Absolutely not the same.

The moral bankruptcy in the streaming instances belongs to the folk who decided to price themselves out of people's budgets.

I mean seriously, how does CP suddenly become all anti-capitalist when it comes to watching games, specifically? Businesses exist to make a profit. They operate in the way that maximizes profits. It has very little to do with being "morally bankrupt." It's literally the foundation of our entire economic system.

Bunch of communists around here. :Poke: ROFL

Because it affects them. As long as it's affecting other people...they don't give a shit.

All I have to say is if the NFL only had single team streaming at a reasonable price people wouldn't pirate stream.

Not true. You would still have people streaming games. What they would have is more users actually purchasing the ability to watch games from them.

I even put the Judas Priest song on while the games play.