Originally Posted by C-Mac (Post 17274038)

I really would like to see literally where the ball was placed by the ref, because Creed seems to always tip the ball up and back pre-snap.
It also appears that Toneys back foot is pretty much in line with Creeds.
It says its on the 49 on the score board and if so, Toney front foot is on the 49, which is very close to not being off sides.

Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 17274012)

Did you look at the pictures you posted? They don’t show what you say they do.

Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE! (Post 17274026)

Did you not see the overhead angle?

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 17274040)

I've never been ashamed of Reid or his players until now.

This is Gunther-era embarrassment.

Originally Posted by Mephistopheles Janx (Post 17274017)

I'm guessing that mother ****er is just as done with us as we are with him.

The man has Zeus himself chucking lightning bolts and he is still a below pedestrian receiver. I get that WRs often have that fighter pilot mentality but this is a man that should understand that he should actually be flying "a plane full of rubber dogshit out of Hong Kong".

Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 17274041)

LMAO

Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE! (Post 17274046)

Did everyone see the overhead angle? There is no disputing this. Toney is so far over

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17274029)

Jesus Christ. What an embarrassing lack of focus.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17274051)

Sadly the team seems to have the same victim mentality that the fanbase does.

I really hope we see some comments walked back today when they get the chance.

Originally Posted by Iczer (Post 17272950)

Can someone help me out. Could Humphrey possibly made him offsides? I wonder if he grabbed the ball when he lined up and possibly moved it back at all?

I’ll be interested to see Replay from the all-22 and if he checked with the ref

Originally Posted by C-Mac (Post 17274050)

Which is why Mahomes and Reed were so upset, its never called when its that close without a warning.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17274051)

Sadly the team seems to have the same victim mentality that the fanbase does.

I really hope we see some comments walked back today when they get the chance.

Originally Posted by mabbott (Post 17274042)

Did you look at the pictures? Or are you arguing semantics?

The first picture showed his foot in the neutral zone.

The second picture showed Miller in the neutral zone.

The third picture showed both in the neutral zone.

Please explain what you feel I missed.

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch (Post 17274097)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Andy Reid said Kadarius Toney didn&#39;t check with down judge Mike Carr to ensure he lined up in the correct spot before committing his offside penalty.</p>&mdash; Nate Taylor (@ByNateTaylor) <a href="https://twitter.com/ByNateTaylor/status/1734283169061392644?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch (Post 17274097)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Andy Reid said Kadarius Toney didn&#39;t check with down judge Mike Carr to ensure he lined up in the correct spot before committing his offside penalty.</p>&mdash; Nate Taylor (@ByNateTaylor) <a href="https://twitter.com/ByNateTaylor/status/1734283169061392644?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch (Post 17274103)

Makes their idiotic meltdown all the worse. If you're going to make assclowns of yourselves at least save it for a **** up so blatant you'll actually have sympathy. Doing it on a textbook offensive offsides makes you look incredibly dumb

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch (Post 17274103)

Makes their idiotic meltdown all the worse. If you're going to make assclowns of yourselves at least save it for a **** up so blatant you'll actually have sympathy. Doing it on a textbook offensive offsides makes you look incredibly dumb

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 (Post 17274109)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Andy Reid: &quot;Do we need to line up right? Yeah. We can&#39;t put it in the officials hands.&quot;</p>&mdash; Nate Taylor (@ByNateTaylor) <a href="https://twitter.com/ByNateTaylor/status/1734283966872506541?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Andy Reid on the Chiefs&#39; lack of attention to details, especially in late-game situations: &quot;I get paid to teach. I&#39;m going to continue to each. The players are going to continue to work.&quot;</p>&mdash; Nate Taylor (@ByNateTaylor) <a href="https://twitter.com/ByNateTaylor/status/1734284832438472869?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17274045)

I'm not ready to go that far - but for sure it's not a great look.

But does explain what appears to be a lack of accountability in the room.

Originally Posted by DJJasonp (Post 17273477)

This.

In past years, 3rd and 15 was very possible.

Not anymore

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17274108)

That's the thing - I could almost be OK with it had it happened last week.

But this?

Good grief, they look ****ing foolish and are absolutely getting dragged in the media and on socials.

Originally Posted by Red Dawg (Post 17273516)

When the Chiefs commit a penalty, I expect the refs to not throw a flag. When the other team commits a penalty, I expect the refs to throw a flag. That's where I'm at.

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 17274040)

I've never been ashamed of Reid or his players until now.

This is Gunther-era embarrassment.

Originally Posted by kevrunner (Post 17274145)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-media-max-width="560"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The day after: <a href="https://t.co/zCtT8eRha9">https://t.co/zCtT8eRha9</a></p>&mdash; Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1734287106233577745?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 17272880)

Looking at the offsides on Toney and the “Let them play” mentality a few things stick out.

1. He was offsides and like it or not, that is inexcusable on his part. Toney should never line up offsides…….ever. That’s a Pee Wee league type of mistake. He didn’t just start playing football this year. Pre snap penalties are the worst because they are completely preventable. He should have never left it up to a ref to decide one way or another, especially with the quality of reffing league wide lately.

2. I get the “Let them play” mindset and not letting a questionable call impact a game. But it can’t be “Let them play” when convenient and when not calls should be made. Look at the SB when KC benefited from a penalty that essentially sealed the game. Had the refs swallowed the whistle like what was wanted today KC might well have lost the SB. We benefited from that penalty. But today we want to yell at the clouds because it was called. Both times the penalty was called, just this time it went against KC.

3. Even after the penalty they still had time to pick up the yards and score a TD and is systemic of how the offense has played for large portions of the year. This team has a championship caliber defense, but the offense is not what we all expect. That might mean an early exit this year. Simply put if the offense hasn’t figured it out by now I question whether they will.

It is what it is.

Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief (Post 17273947)

Can you post the endzone view? Toney is absolutely mauled 10 yards downfield and it should have been offsetting penalties. The endzone view really shows the contact and Toney is upset it wasn't called as he's gesturing to the refs before Kelce laterals the ball.

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 (Post 17274140)

Teicher asked Andy if he was considering benching Toney.

Andy’s response was that he’s young, but improving.

Hmmmm.

Originally Posted by Lzen (Post 17274155)

Well said.

These kinds of mistakes all year long have really got me wondering why the WRs are not really getting much better. I guess Rice is getting better but even he is still having drops and fumbles. I know someone mentioned Embree a few weeks ago and got some flack from some people. But I wonder if there might truly be something to that. I think we need more talented WRs, for sure. But I also wonder if the coaching also needs improved.

At this point, unless something changes, I don't see the Chiefs getting far in the playoffs.

Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 17274179)

As weird as it might sound, part of me wants them to miss the playoffs. I guess I am not 100% on wanting them to miss it because that means Denver wins the AFCW. But I just don't believe this offense with how it's played all year can hold up their end in the playoffs. Them missing it gives Veach an opportunity to really attack the skill positions this year in what I keep hearing is a deep WR draft. KC doesn't have a ton of picks this year to wheel and deal with, so by drafting higher, he can maximize the picks he does have. This team is currently playing like a team that will be knocked out in WC weekend.

Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief (Post 17274187)

You can't be serious... ****ing pussy

Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 17274088)

Do you see how the first and second pictures are from different angles? How do you think that might affect them?

Do you see how there is a yellow line drawn through the ball that goes through Toney and does not touch Von?

Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE! (Post 17274212)

I think it’s seriously time to move on from Reid

Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE! (Post 17274212)

I think it’s seriously time to move on from Reid

Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE! (Post 17274212)

I think it’s seriously time to move on from Reid

Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE! (Post 17273810)

Bruh…. His whole body except his back leg is lined up past the ball

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This photo removes all doubt. 19 was blatantly offside. <a href="https://t.co/KD0R0Rvguy">pic.twitter.com/KD0R0Rvguy</a></p>&mdash; ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) <a href="https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1734210600471822339?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 (Post 17274244)

Benching Toney is an “overreaction”?

Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 17272880)

Looking at the offsides on Toney and the “Let them play” mentality a few things stick out.

1. He was offsides and like it or not, that is inexcusable on his part. Toney should never line up offsides…….ever. That’s a Pee Wee league type of mistake. He didn’t just start playing football this year. Pre snap penalties are the worst because they are completely preventable. He should have never left it up to a ref to decide one way or another, especially with the quality of reffing league wide lately.

2. I get the “Let them play” mindset and not letting a questionable call impact a game. But it can’t be “Let them play” when convenient and when not calls should be made. Look at the SB when KC benefited from a penalty that essentially sealed the game. Had the refs swallowed the whistle like what was wanted today KC might well have lost the SB. We benefited from that penalty. But today we want to yell at the clouds because it was called. Both times the penalty was called, just this time it went against KC.

3. Even after the penalty they still had time to pick up the yards and score a TD and is systemic of how the offense has played for large portions of the year. This team has a championship caliber defense, but the offense is not what we all expect. That might mean an early exit this year. Simply put if the offense hasn’t figured it out by now I question whether they will.

It is what it is.

Originally Posted by louie aguiar (Post 17274056)

Reminds me of the Monday night meltdown in 1998 when DT lost it and went after Shannon Sharpe

Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE! (Post 17274212)

I think it’s seriously time to move on from Reid

Originally Posted by J Diddy (Post 17274257)

Dude. You've gotten fan glow in your eyes. Even when we're playing shitty we still have a superbowl chance.

Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE! (Post 17274264)

If we didn’t have Mahomes on this team we’d be about .500. Thank god for our defense tho

Originally Posted by bigjosh (Post 17273276)

Nothing like your $1B qb painting a target on the team for the rest of the refs to shoot at

Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE! (Post 17274212)

I think it’s seriously time to move on from Reid

Originally Posted by Lzen (Post 17274236)

It was 1st and 10, correct? If you look at the video, the first down marker is at the 39. I think Creed moved the ball back before he got set to snap it. So, the LOS was the 49. I can't say for certain that Toney was not on the 49. Does being on the LOS for the offense make you offsides?

Originally Posted by louie aguiar (Post 17273845)

We’re stuck with Taylor for at least another year. That contract is looking pretty bad right now. It’s crazy to me that he’s still making the same mistakes this far into the season. Hindsight is 20/20 but we probably would have been better off re-upping with Wylie and using the $ saved in a receiver.

Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 17274179)

As weird as it might sound, part of me wants them to miss the playoffs. I guess I am not 100% on wanting them to miss it because that means Denver wins the AFCW. But I just don't believe this offense with how it's played all year can hold up their end in the playoffs. Them missing it gives Veach an opportunity to really attack the skill positions this year in what I keep hearing is a deep WR draft. KC doesn't have a ton of picks this year to wheel and deal with, so by drafting higher, he can maximize the picks he does have. This team is currently playing like a team that will be knocked out in WC weekend.

Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE! (Post 17274264)

If we didn’t have Mahomes on this team we’d be about .500. Thank god for our defense tho

Originally Posted by louie aguiar (Post 17273845)

We’re stuck with Taylor for at least another year. That contract is looking pretty bad right now. It’s crazy to me that he’s still making the same mistakes this far into the season. Hindsight is 20/20 but we probably would have been better off re-upping with Wylie and using the $ saved in a receiver.

Originally Posted by LoneWolf (Post 17272909)

Toney also checked with the referee before the snap. KC was robbed of a TD by Cheffer’s crew. Not sure they win the game because Buffalo would have had a shot to go down and win it, but the call was bullshit.

Originally Posted by SupDock (Post 17273778)

I also read that it has been called 11 times this season.

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 17274285)

Oof.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBF921OW...name=4096x4096

Originally Posted by SHOWTIME (Post 17274296)

Who says Toney checked with the referee? Cheffers' pool report says the refs are not obligated to tell players and/or coaches whether a player is lined up onsides. If Toney said he checked with the officials and he got the ok, it seems like someone is lying here.

This is a coaching problem as well. You CANNOT rely on the officials to be on your side. You CANNOT assume that they are going to help you out by telling you you are lined up on the LOS and should move back a few inches. Reid complaining that the officials always warn him is just naive - teach your players to line up behind the ball and if they don't get it right make them run sprints up a hill in practice until they learn to do it correctly.

Originally Posted by Shields68 (Post 17274342)

CHeffers report means that if someone is offsides they do not have to tell anyone. Cheffers did not say if asked whether the official should tell them. He also did not address whether Tooney did or did not check.

It appears the policy is if just a tad to let the coach player know on the next snap. If blatantly offsides throw the flag. if t he player asks give him a signal to move back or ok.

Just guessing but I doubt Tooney checked. Andy/Patrick think it was a tad too far and CHeffers thought it was pretty blatant.

Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE! (Post 17274212)

I think it’s seriously time to move on from Reid

Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE! (Post 17274212)

I think it’s seriously time to move on from Reid

Originally Posted by louie aguiar (Post 17274336)

KT was more more egregious

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBEuqfZX...jpg&name=large

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17274381)

So Jawaan Taylor had an excellent pressure rate with a few more penalties but not terrible. He comes in and beats the shit out of Aidan Hutchinson week 1 like we paid him to and then starting week 2 they start targeting him and flagging. He's trying to adjust and can't. His confidence is shaky bc of Chris ****ing Collinsworth.

I'd be fine with that but I see Lane Johnson doing the same thing every week as well as both Bills tackles and nothing.

Jawaan Taylor has been targeted all season long

Originally Posted by GloryDayz (Post 17274434)

You might be right, but it just doesn't matter, Taylor has to conform to the league's wishes or he will keep getting flagged. It's really that simple.

Originally Posted by louie aguiar (Post 17274456)

Yep. Taylor has been called for 16 enforced penalties, the next closest is 11 (bears rookie right tackle). He may be targeted but he’s not cleaning it up. It happens every week. That’s inexcusable for a veteran high-priced guy like Taylor.