Something clearly isn’t right. I REALLY hate to say this, but a lot of these screenshots look like the holes that Trent Richardson used to miss.

If he doesn’t turn it back around, this pick is going to be second guessed for a long time. Especially, when you consider the receivers we could had. Specifically, Higgins and Claypool.

This just doesn’t fit with the guy we saw in college or even last year when the OL wasn’t complete dogshit.

I have to continue to have faith in EB and Reid and the talent that we got in CEH. This just seems fixable for now.

He was terrible yesterday.

The OL played a good game.

Maybe EB should take back the RB group because he would be all up in CEH's ass for this shit.

He's only human; hasn't looked the same to me after the Saints game injury. He was running with abandon until then. Not everyone has the ability to come back from injury like Patrick; he's special mentally and physically.

Correct. CEH's vision coming out was amazing.

You can say he is a touch slow, not super explosive. You can say he struggles in pass pro.

But his vision should be his calling card.

Why is he even flat-footed there? What is he seeing that's causing him to hesitate?

He's got nothing but daylight to his left. Three defenders in front of him but three hats on them. That's a win all day. 90% of starting backs in this league take that for at least 5-6 yards.

He should be in stride, full steam ahead.

That blocking looks very good

I know that’s the point, but dang.

These are my thoughts. A mental block. That gymnist had a similar mental block. Even Mavorick had it.

His injury still makes me cringe. **** that.

Jerick McKinnon come on down.


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Last year on many occasions he made something out of nothing. I'm confident he can get his mojo back and improve with this line.

Was it PS week 2 where he got dinged?

I remember mentioning it at the time - the run game looked better after he got hurt. His vision really has been a problem.

He's become something of a guess hitter out there. He acts like he's deciding where a hole is going to open and if it doesn't, he just smashes into where he expected it to be without looking for a plan B. Combine that with a tendency to tip-toe into the line and he's almost completely ineffective.

It's not great. There needs to be improvement there or he needs to start losing snaps.

He actually looked great in the SB when he got his opportunities.

This really didn’t start till this year.

It was revealed he had gallbladder surgery in the offseason, and he had that ankle injury in the preseason. Other than a new OL with some potential changes to the running scheme, I can’t think of what else it could be.

Even Darwin found and hit the holes...before he did something inexplicable.

I believe so. He has been hurt alot but that goes with the position. I was mentioning yesterday we needed to see more of Mckinnon and if his poor play continues bring up Gore.

It happened last year too. Mentioned it then. But you know...ole contrarian me.

Stop drinking so many stadium margs

CEH averaged over 4 YPC last year behind the 31st run blocking OL.

He was fine to good last year all things considered, and he really started to hit his stride towards the end, because like I said, 2 of his best games were against the Saints and the SB (his last 2).

He hasn’t been the same this year. There’s a clear difference and of course you’re the only idiot that can’t see it.

The wife yacked down the side of the truck on the ride home.

I was so proud of her...

No bullshit, i feel like Darrel Williams can do more with some of these holes.

LMAO

He wasn't this bad, no. This version of him isn't an NFL caliber player.

But his vision last season wasn't as good as I expected it to be either. The difference is that he still showed some nice vision in space so I thought he might be getting his rhythm to him. He was never as dynamic as he appeared to be in college in picking his way into the second level. The only game where I really saw that was the Texans game.

In the Buffalo game guys were just getting blown off the ball and he wasn't being asked to do much.

I wouldn't be all that concerned where it just a couple of pre-season snaps and a single game against a stiff front. But that's not really the case - he was showing some of this last year as well. It's just gotten quite a bit worse.

Agree it looks like he's slower and even more hesitant right now. But yeah I noticed him missing what looked like obvious holes even last year. Guess I was just looking into the future.

I keep going back to the fact that he really started to hit his stride at the end of last year, so that’s the guy I’m talking about in regards to last year.

He was averaging over 5 YPC against the Saints before the injury and the Bucs in the SB. That just doesn’t happen against those 2 teams with a bottom 3 run blocking OL. He looked like the guy I thought we were getting minus the receiving.

Something happened.

Those games were the outlier and small sample size?

Looks like an RPO based on the WR route.

Does Matt Verderame know what the RB is taught to do on that RPO play if given the ball?

Maybe CEH did not run it right, but it is not fair to take a still photo and throw stones if you do not know the play design.

Seems like an RPO requires the RB to commit to a route while the QB reads the LB.

No, he looked really ****ing good against good run defenses behind a shit OL. He was playing his best football down the stretch like you’d expect given the circumstances last year.

I know what I saw.

Yeah, the still shot isn't really telling us much. I'm not sure where or what the intent is from a running back perspective.

I remember having a solid game against the Saints. Other than that I don't really remember much late.

Right now he looks tentative so you maybe try to find a physical issue. It's hard to really know for sure because he can't seem to get into space to demonstrate it, but I think he might just be slow.

If he's not in shape for some reason (off-season surgery and the ankle could have been part of it), it could keep him from being able knife into those openings so he's got a mental block that's preventing him from even trying.

So he's doing some frustrated running where he's giving up on the run early. Or he's 'cheating' by trying to guess where the hole will open before it does to try to get into the hole sooner and it's backfiring.

I don't really know. I'll say that I never saw a guy I thought looked great last season. At his best he was above average for the most part (I'll make an exception for the Texans game - he looked pretty incredible in that one). And right now he's not anything close to his best.

The Chiefs need to hope he figures it out because if you're using a 1st rounder on a 'safe' pick with low positional value and said player busts on you, that's gonna sting for a bit. Especially as they get deeper into their stars/scrubs model going forward.

Again, he averaged over 5 YPC in his last 2 games against arguably the best 2 run defenses in the league.

CEH's best play yesterday was that swing pass. We need more of that for him and maybe that will build up some confidence.

Did he do anything there that McKinnon couldn't, though?

He just leaked out, caught a simple swing pass and ran to the boundary. It was easy money.

Yes, it's how I'd like to see him utilized more, but it's also nothing that can establish him as a genuine asset any more than some street FA backup RB like McKinnon could be. And they still don't seem to trust him much in pass pro so he's coming out on some of the 3rd down plays where that kind of skill can be used more frequently.

Ok, but you do realize that could very well be just outliers?

Or you know, why you don't draft running backs in the first god damn round.

No. If that was Mckinnon he would have gotten alot more yds probably. We really need to get him in the game and get the ball to him.

You could say that about any position not living up to expectations, but this is player specific and not an obtuse generalization

He's literally played 14 games in the NFL, 13 last season before he suffered what looked like a catastrophic injury/injuries to his hip/ankle? And just one this season, behind a completely new OL?

Think some of us need to take a little chill pill.

Well CEH is showing us that great RBs do make a difference and maybe aren't a dime a dozen after all.

The main argument against drafting them in the first round seems to be that you can always pick up a near-elite RB. It felt like that for a long time with the Chiefs. But now we're back in the Donnell Bennett dark ages.

I want to see what Derrick Gore can do. He may not have elite measurables but he sure has vision and instincts.

Dude,

People need to calm down, and understand running out of shotgun doesn't always work.

I'd love to actually do PA this year, real play action.

Much like the Orlando Brown conversation, the issue has nothing to do with continuity or longevity.

I don't care how many games he has or hasn't played or how new the OL is.

A hole is a hole. Can you ****ing hit it hard and fast or not?

And yeah, im a guy who was FIRMLY in the CEH corner before he was drafted. But he didn't run like this in college.

My best guess is that he's thinking too damn much.

That’s the one that was really complained about in the game thread. Every single Browns player is being blocked or has someone that’s going to block them. That should be an easy first down run and more.

But that was the thing about CEH - his background in the LSU offense and his vision in that system seemed 100% tailored to this offense. He seemed lab-built to run out of the shotgun His fit to what we do is what made him an intriguing pick.

We had this argument on CEH vs. Taylor. I remember thinking Taylor's a better pure runner than CEH but CEH is a better fit for this team and this offense precisely because he's so well suited for the shotgun run game.

The problem is that we're not seeing his skills translate to this offense the way we thought they would and at a point that becomes a concern. I think we can acknowledge that he's not the most physically gifted RB around and so he's gotta be a specific scheme fit to be an asset here.

Thus far it's fair to wonder if he is.

Literally every year in the league, there are 3rd or 4th round rbs that play well.

Pick them there. Or later.

Yeah, the film room is going to be rough there. I assumed he’s still not 100%, but he’s got to be better.

I also wonder if he doesn't believe in himself. As in, he doesn't believe he has the speed to switch running lanes and pop those off on the outside.

Like a QB with a weak arm that refuses to throw into tight windows because he's afraid he doesn't have the control or power.

****The Clyde Edwards-Helaire Thread*****
 

Yeah it was a problem last year as well. This isn’t new and I’m not all that convinced that just giving him time will solve anything.

In college he'd have pushed the line to get that safety to hesitate a little while the OL climbs and locks him up (which may be what he's trying to do there and why he's flat footed - he's wanting the second level to hesitate). It looks like Creed splitting that gap there and with the safety hesitating, he's probably about to get sealed off.

Then he angles left, and sets up a block from the WR before he cuts back middle for a big gain.

He just seemed to vapor-lock mid-run. But that thing was blocked up perfectly.

Yup. I thought he’d be the perfect fit due to his quickness and vision. Haven’t really seen it outside of a few runs.

RB just isn't one of those positions that takes 3 years to develop. They pretty much show what they got right away and that's that. We're not talking about a 5-tech DE, a NT, LT or a QB.

Which is why he's drawing the attention from fans that he is.

When teams are absolutely begging us to run I’m not going to get excited about 5 ypc unless it’s mixed in with multiple long ones being broken.

Yeah, especially ones taken in the first round.

Andy spoke on it during today's presser (just caught it now).

He basically says it's a chemistry thing with the Oline and that he has full faith in Heck, Greg, and EB to iron it out with the line and CEH.

Starts at the 7:10 mark below (I set the video to begin there).

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Tell me you didn’t watch Priest Holmes play football without telling me you didn’t watch Priest Holmes play football.

There is absolutely an argument to be made to draft a RB in the mid to late rounds every year. Keep fresh legs and trade them when they are about to get expensive.

Holmes' also ran behind arguably the greatest O-Line assembled

Priest Holmes was a 1,000 yard rusher for Baltimore before being replaced by...(his name escapes me). He was averaging 5.0 YPC before even joining the Chiefs, so save me that snarky bullshit.

That’s the main issue people are having with him.

Were Priest Holmes, Jamaal Charles or Kareem Hunt first round picks? No!

CEH should theoretically be better than all three.


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I was thinking the same thing then I went and looked at Derrick Henry and he had 490 yds his rookie year and 744 in year 2 then in year 3 finally went over 1k.

I am not that patient though for a RB :D

IIRC, because he was sharing time as a part time player. They were RB by committee.

Like Priest Holmes who served backup to Jamal Lewis. Priest was a 1K rusher before they drafted Lewis, then had part time stats after.

Or Charles serving behind Johnson. As soon as Charles got his chance though...it was obvious. He didn't need 3 seasons of running to break out. He broke out right away.

How about Larry Johnson breaking out pretty much the moment he took over for Priest?

Eh, w/e.

Im rooting for CEH. Lets hope they figure it out and make us all look stupid for ever doubting. I would love nothing more than that.

Ah yep you are right, he split time with DeMarco Murray..forgot about that guy.

Chris Johnson. CJ2K.

Just looked it up. That's why Henry was limited early.

In his first four years, he had one 1000 yard season. Even then, as you noted, it wasn't enough to keep his job.

If we're going to be fair, Clyde had around 800 yards last season in 13 games, averaging approximately (ypc) what Priest did in his "breakout" 1000 yards season.

'09 Was the year CJ went 2K. They had LenDale White too.

*a season similar to CEH's rookie season.

Yep. In fairness to CEH most RB's need to carry the ball 20-25 times a game to get a rhythm and that isn't going to happen with Reid especially with Mahomes as our QB. So you better take advantage of the limited opportunities you do get.

He was a 1K rusher when rushing for 1K was actually hard, on a team that could barely throw the ball at all. He was replaced by Jamal Lewis, an eventual 2k rusher, hence why he became the forgotten man.

The point is, dude was well proven. It didn't take him 3 years to figure it out. He was rushing for like 4.-something YPC even as a back up.

Your point was silly. It's not comparable at all.

So, his 1000 yard season wasn't comparable to what CEH did last year?

That myth shoulda died a loooooong time ago.

20 carries/gm is 320 carries. One runningback had that many last season.

Only 6 got even 15 carries/gm.

Guys get carries because the running game is working. The running game isn't working because guys get carries.

If Edwards-Helaire can't figure out a way to be efficient on 15 yards/carry, he's just not a very good runningback. There are lots of guys in the NFL that make that work and work well.

Right now Clyde has a Clyde problem.

I don't know what you're trying to argue here.

I said it doesn't take 3 years to develop a RB.

You came at me with some snarky bullshit about never seeing Priest Holmes play, insinuating that it took years for Priest Holmes to develop.

I showed you, which you evidently didn't realize, that Priest had already well proven himself as an NFL caliber runner well before he came to KC.

Now you wanna argue about stats, from entirely different eras of football in entirely different teams running entirely different systems?

Get it together, man.

Good point. But yeah Clyde is going to need to make the most of his opportunities regardless. Yesterday he had 14 carries for 43 yds. That is pathetic.

It's especially rough when we know teams aren't stacking the box.

He obviously has to be better.

Absolutely. Positively. Yes.

ROFL I don't even...

mmm... Probably. I think if we got the CEH we thought we were getting I'm happy with the pick. 32 is quite a bit different than like 15, or god forbid top 5 (Giants, Dallas, Jacksonville you ****ing asshats).

Yes and no. Guys can typically run the ball out of the gates (which is why CEH is catching hell, rightfully) but pass pro, especially Reid pass pro takes some time.

CEH hasn't even played a full season's worth of games yet.

And sometimes any player can have a slow start. Even HOFers (and I'm not saying CEH should be/will be a HOFer). The Hall is littered with them. Thurman Thomas and Jerry Rice immediately come to mind.

Whatever. CEH is obviously talented, and he's shown enough from last season that I think he'll be okay by mid-season. Whining about his performance yesterday smacks of panic.

Thx for posting. Basically what I said earlier.

If Clyde was 6th round pick, people wouldn’t be arguing about this.

It’s because he was drafted in the first round that is upsetting people.

Chiefs have wasted a lot of high(1-3 rounds) picks.


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Maybe for a power back like Derrick Henry. I don't see that with CEH. I sure hope it's just too early in the season and CEH still has ptsd from the poor interior blocking last year. But he just flat out seems to be missing his holes. Doesn't look like a rhythm thing.

JFC

You know what it smacks of? It smacks of acknowledging what actually happened out there yesterday.

There isn't an ounce of panic in this thread. No one is going to panic over a RB when Mahomes is your damn QB.

Yep we get a light box and he still doesn't do very good. Adrian Peterson would do better and he is still available :D

In all seriousness if CEH doesn't improve here in the next few games we need to look at other options.