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-   -   Chiefs Brandon Flowers done (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=284340)

nychief 06-14-2014 11:44 AM

It is a pragmatic financial move that will hurt for a bit. Just losing his leadership etc... That being said, had to be done. Our cap situation is bad, and we have to do some housecleaning.

saphojunkie 06-14-2014 11:49 AM

I really liked Flowers as a player. And I in no way wanted us to release him, but I understand the parameters. The fact remains that we need to extend Justin Houston (if we want to win longterm) and we need to extend Alex Smith (if we want to win this year and next).

We might be able to find a QB to replace Smith in a couple years, but that guy is not on the roster nor available in free agency right now. So, if we don't want another 4-12 season - and I, for one, don't - then we need to keep Smith around. And I know people want to say that we just let Smith play out his contract, then either franchise tag him or let Bray/Murray take over.

But sorry... QB doesn't work that way. For the first time since Vermeil, we actually have our HC/QB combination in place. you don't mess around with that, because it will literally affect the entire team chemistry. You can ditch a starting CB and the team won't suffer for it. Start messing with the QB position or getting too cute... and shit will fall apart.

Cutting Flowers opens up a little more cap room to extend two vital players.

I'm not happy about it, but I understand.

PunkinDrublic 06-14-2014 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale (Post 10690720)
You don't seem aware of this, but KC keeps changing coaches and that always reboots the build process.

Seattle, unlike KC, was smart enough to fire a shitty coach after one season and hired a brilliant guy that most of the folks around here would have thrown a temper tantrum had we hired him. We gave Herm three, Haley two, and Crennel one. Seattle booted the guy who didn't perform... we gave them jobs for six seasons.

Exactly. There's a lot to criticize and question regarding this offseason but, only a ****ing reerun blames a current GM for the previous GMs mistakes.

WhiteWhale 06-14-2014 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie (Post 10690769)
I really liked Flowers as a player. And I in no way wanted us to release him, but I understand the parameters. The fact remains that we need to extend Justin Houston (if we want to win longterm) and we need to extend Alex Smith (if we want to win this year and next).

We might be able to find a QB to replace Smith in a couple years, but that guy is not on the roster nor available in free agency right now. So, if we don't want another 4-12 season - and I, for one, don't - then we need to keep Smith around. And I know people want to say that we just let Smith play out his contract, then either franchise tag him or let Bray/Murray take over.

But sorry... QB doesn't work that way. For the first time since Vermeil, we actually have our HC/QB combination in place. you don't mess around with that, because it will literally affect the entire team chemistry. You can ditch a starting CB and the team won't suffer for it. Start messing with the QB position or getting too cute... and shit will fall apart.

Cutting Flowers opens up a little more cap room to extend two vital players.

I'm not happy about it, but I understand.

Pretty much how I feel about it. Of course I could also complain about how Pioli ridiculously back loaded his and Hali's contracts making it unfeasible to keep both of them... especially since it was done at a time when KC was swimming in cap space.

If one feels you have to choose between letting Flowers or Hali walk, I'm letting Flowers go 100% of the time. I just think it's stupid that the two of them were taking up so much space later on in the contracts when we had like 30 million in space when we signed them.

saphojunkie 06-14-2014 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic (Post 10690774)
Exactly. There's a lot to criticize and question regarding this offseason but, only a ****ing reerun blames a current GM for the previous GMs mistakes.

I also think those coaching changes prohibited any kind of continuity or momentum. This team needed a coach that could bring consistent success, and I think that is exactly what we found in Reid.

Dorsey is rebuilding, sure, but I like that he didn't just blow the team up in order to do it. Next year there will be another veteran who is replaced or released, and we'll have this discussion all over again.

My money is on either Tamba or Derrick Johnson.

The thing we need more than anything else right now is for last year's draft picks to actually ****ing play and contribute. A successful Fisher, Commings, Kelce, and Davis will go a long way toward taking the pressure off Dorsey.

Sannyasi 06-14-2014 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 10690711)
It's a piss poor job done.

You can disagree.

That's fine.

We'll all see the results this season...

The move wasn't about this season. I just can't see the controversy on this one. If you can get rid of a shitty 3rd CB and save 7.5 million dollars, why wouldn't you do it?

Tombstone RJ 06-14-2014 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sannyasi (Post 10690784)
The move wasn't about this season. I just can't see the controversy on this one. If you can get rid of a shitty 3rd CB and save 7.5 million dollars, why wouldn't you do it?

purging talent, regardless of position, has a negative effect on any team. It's obvious to me that Flowers is somewhat of a controversial figure to kc fans. Not too long ago many here claimed he was a top 10 CB. Now all of a sudden, he sucks. Maybe he was misused under the current coaching staff, but that's on the coaching staff, not Flowers. Regardless, kc's CB talent is severely lacking.

Sannyasi 06-14-2014 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10690789)
purging talent, regardless of position, has a negative effect on any team. It's obvious to me that Flowers is somewhat of a controversial figure to kc fans. Not too long ago many here claimed he was a top 10 CB. Now all of a sudden, he sucks. Maybe he was misused under the current coaching staff, but that's on the coaching staff, not Flowers. Regardless, kc's CB talent is severely lacking.

Talent in the secondary is lacking with or without Flowers. He was a top 10 CB at his peak, but he's been declining for a couple years now and was a liability last season to the point where he lost his job to a scrap heap rookie.

WhiteWhale 06-14-2014 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sannyasi (Post 10690798)
Talent in the secondary is lacking with or without Flowers. He was a top 10 CB at his peak, but he's been declining for a couple years now and was a liability last season to the point where he lost his job to a scrap heap rookie.

He didn't lose his job.

If you think he did, you don't understand football. He was the starting CB all season. He moved inside on sub packages because the guy we signed for that role failed (Robinson) and Cooper was in no way ready for that role in the slot. It's the hardest spot to cover out of.

OldSchool 06-14-2014 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale (Post 10690800)
He didn't lose his job.

If you think he did, you don't understand football. He was the starting CB all season. He moved inside on sub packages because the guy we signed for that role failed (Robinson) and Cooper was in no way ready for that role in the slot. It's the hardest spot to cover out of.

That's why slot corners are paid the most . . . oh wait.

Meatloaf 06-14-2014 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie (Post 10690769)
I really liked Flowers as a player. And I in no way wanted us to release him, but I understand the parameters. The fact remains that we need to extend Justin Houston (if we want to win longterm) and we need to extend Alex Smith (if we want to win this year and next).

We might be able to find a QB to replace Smith in a couple years, but that guy is not on the roster nor available in free agency right now. So, if we don't want another 4-12 season - and I, for one, don't - then we need to keep Smith around. And I know people want to say that we just let Smith play out his contract, then either franchise tag him or let Bray/Murray take over.

But sorry... QB doesn't work that way. For the first time since Vermeil, we actually have our HC/QB combination in place. you don't mess around with that, because it will literally affect the entire team chemistry. You can ditch a starting CB and the team won't suffer for it. Start messing with the QB position or getting too cute... and shit will fall apart.

Cutting Flowers opens up a little more cap room to extend two vital players.

I'm not happy about it, but I understand.

Nice post Sapho. :thumb:

ThaVirus 06-14-2014 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonzie04 (Post 10690759)
cooper, and aj Jenkins have elite celings.



Fisher, knile Davis, Commings, Dee ford, Phillip Gaines, also have elite ceilings. They are all physical specimens, in some sort. I doubt they will ever reach said ceilings, but the potential is there.


LMAO

Come on, dude.

Just Passin' By 06-14-2014 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonzie04 (Post 10690759)
cooper, and aj Jenkins have elite celings.

Fisher, knile Davis, Commings, Dee ford, Phillip Gaines, also have elite ceilings. They are all physical specimens, in some sort. I doubt they will ever reach said ceilings, but the potential is there.

Jenkins has 8 catches in 2 seasons. You might want to lower his ceiling until he gets up off the floor.

Just sayin'

Dave Lane 06-14-2014 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King- (Post 10690639)
Why? The Chiefs could easily get someone to do what Flowers did last season. Be as good as Flowers in his prime? Probably not, but Flowers isn't in his prime anymore and doesn't fit in this defense. Team is no worse without him than they were last year.
Posted via Mobile Device

Dudes 28 yup washed up way past his prime. :thumb:

Pasta Little Brioni 06-14-2014 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious (Post 10690730)
The only way to get a consistent winner is with a QB.

We have that. No excuse. If they are as bad as some of you slapdicks are saying it's an absolute failure.


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