As a FA? Sure.

Who wouldn't be onboard with Harper?

I just dont believe the Cubs can make it happen unless they can trade Heyward, which might not be as far fetched as it seemed at the beginning of the year.

I'm not sure how the Dodgers make it fit either.

I've got my money on Machado going to the Yankees and them moving Torres to 3rd, assuming they can't convince Machado to go back to 3rd on a winning team. And Harper going to someone like the Phillies who have both room for him and plenty of money.

No way do the Dodgers get Harper and I'd be against another ****ing rental.

What’s the scoop? We get anything good out of this?

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2018?list=tb

#14 and #25.

Just a bit shy of that one guys theory of Pham returning a guy thats a top 20 prospect.

3.

Williams is a lefthanded hitter who profiles defensively in the corner and appears to have the physical tools to hit for more power than he does. He probably needs some tinkering but the tools appear to be there. He could end up a nice part of a platoon kind of situation with Bader or O'Neill and is something this organization simply doesn't have - a projectable lefthanded bat in the high minors.

Cabrera is intriguing as a smallish lefty with plus stuff. I really like that strikeout rate since he's doing it as a starter. Looks like there are some scouting concerns over his size staying in the starting rotation but I'd imagine he'd be a hammer lefty out of the 'pen if need be. Command is a little iffy but it's always iffy on young lefthanders.

Ramirez is a JAG; a fungible righthanded reliever who might give you 3-4 decent years in a middle relief role; think John Brebbia and you probably won't be disappointed.

It's not a bad return for someone who likely never had buy-in leaguewide given his eye issues. I hate having to pull the cord on him but he's been pretty abysmal for 3 months. I'm certain it's an eye issue but I suspect he is as well. If they haven't figured it out, you have to start to wonder if they ever will. It was time to move on and 2 of those guys probably have 3 win upside with the third being pretty likely to pitch in the majors at some point (though not in any kind of high leverage role).

It's not the kind of trade that changes a teams long-term fortunes greatly but at least it continues to build the organizational depth. My concern is that the 40 man is gonna get real crowded, real fast. I believe both Cabrera and Williams need to be on the 40 next year.

I think the Rays will win this trade pretty convincingly. We'll see, I guess.

Doesnt really tell me anything. Unless you know how strong the Rays depth is, we got Seattle’s #10 prospect for Voit, who sucks. That player is now 21st in our organization.

this crowded outfield situation is Mo’s making. They have to do something. They can’t trade Fowler for shit. Maybe we can make a run in 2019. Having the Ozuna of late on that team means your not trading low on him now. We need to see if O’neil’s power plays in MLB or he’s Grichuk 2.0.

Think about the Cardinals' problem: a roster jammed with two win players. Now, what did they do: they traded a guy with a career average of 4.5 WAR/600 PA for two guys that have 2-3 WAR ceilings and a scrub reliever. This is the exact opposite of what they should be doing, but Mo seems determined to have a 40 man filled with guys that project as average starters.

Rays acquired OF Tommy Pham from the Cardinals for LHP Genesis Cabrera, OF Justin Williams and RHP Roel Ramirez.

The Rays are getting $500,000 in international bonus money in the deal. This comes a bit out of nowhere, but it seems lots of Tampa Bay deals come out of nowhere. Pham was sensational in 2017 with a 23 homers, 25 steals and a .931 OPS, but he hasn’t been close that player in 2018 with a .248/.331/.399 line over 396 at-bats. He has hit 14 homers and 10 steals, however, so the power/speed combination is still readily apparent in the 30-year-old outfielder. He should be an everyday player for the Rays, and he’s still capable of helping you in redraft leagues. You just shouldn’t ever expect to see the player you saw in 2017, because that version (probably) isn’t coming back.

Cardinals acquired LHP Genesis Cabrera from the Cardinals in a four-player deal for OF Tommy Pham.

Cabrera is a left-hander whose fastball can get up to 97 mph, and his slider gives him another potential out pitch. His command is well behind his stuff at this point, and he’ll need to improve his change if he’s going to be a starter at the highest level. He could be a very effective reliever, but expect the Cardinals to give the 21-year-old a chance to develop as a starter, knowing the bullpen is a safe fallback option.

Cardinals acquired OF Justin Williams from the Rays in a four-player deal for OF Tommy Pham.

Williams received a small cup of coffee with the Rays this year, and he’s hit .258 this year over 356 at-bats with Triple-A Durham in 2018. A second-round pick by Arizona that was acquired in the Jeremy Hellickson trade in 2014, Williams flashes five solid tools, but his below-average approach at the plate has made it tough for him to tap into his offensive potential. He’s just 22-years-old, and he could be a late bloomer in the right development system. The Cardinals have proven to do well with these type of prospects, but there’s just as much risk as reward.

Cardinals acquired RHP Roel Ramirez in a four-player deal from the Rays for OF Tommy Pham.

Ramirez was an eighth-round pick by the Rays in 2013 who struggled as a starter as a professional, but he’s pitched better since being converted to relief; particularly in the ability to miss bats (60 over 53 1 / 3 innings at the High-A and Double-A levels. He projects as a middle reliever, and won’t have much fantasy value in that role.

I’d rather get lottery tickets with high upside but may never make it to the majors than JAG projection at the MLB level players.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As Cras references here, the tension never really abated between Tommy and the front office. Recently he asked for an expensive piece of exercise equipment and became unhappy when the team didn’t provide it. Many small clashes, I’m told by source. TB has been on him a long time. <a href="https://t.co/L9FiZ49Rt7">https://t.co/L9FiZ49Rt7</a></p>&mdash; Mark Saxon (@markasaxon) <a href="https://twitter.com/markasaxon/status/1024313179625676802?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 31, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

So what's an "expensive piece of exercise equipment" cost an organization like the Cardinals? ****ers could probably get it for free if Pham promoted it on a damn youtube clip.

Cardinals turned a blind eye on Pham.

Unless you are a superstar because you can back it up, diva attitudes have no place in the clubhouse. GTFO.

Training camp has started. Are the Cardinals still playing?

Cant believe we traded Pham for nothing. Not sure whats going on with this team right now.

Traded nothing for three nothings at least. Last year was a fluke. But, but, but 20/20 again!!!/Dan

I doubt last year was just a fluke as his performance goes beyond last year.

That being said his days in Stl were numbered as its obvious he and the front office were never going to mesh. Starting with that interview for SI he did after not getting a long term deal their relationship has been shit.

Personally because of his eye issues, I wouldn't give him big $ either.

its transitioning to more younger and better players.

He seems to have a little diva in him. Someone who hasn’t even made an All-Star team should not be a diva in the locker room or with the club.

what exactly has Pham done with his career? He’s 30. He is what he is at this point. With his eyesight issues and prolonged slumps, we need more consistentcy in CF. If it’s not Bader or O’neill Then we need to find someone else.

I saw an interesting tweet - pretty short: "It seems the Cardinals are always 'making room in the outfield...."

They're exactly right. I mean go back to dumping Craig to clear space for Oscar. We've been hearing about how stacked our outfield is throughout the system for seemingly a decade now and yet we never seem to have any OFers that actually matter.

I mean hell - go take a look at Lane Thomas. Who? Right - nobody has any idea who that guy is but he's actually had a really good season and you can make an argument that he should be considered as highly as Arozarenas and higher than Jose Adolis Garcia. He's played a strong CF while hitting 20+ bombs already in AA before wrecking AAA. He may be the #2 or #3 OF prospect in the whole system but it doesn't really matter because just like the rest of them, he's probably a fairly fungible guy when all is said and done.

We just build this organization full of guys that are pretty easy to swap out and never seem to come across anybody truly irreplaceable. All the talk now is about Elehuris Montero and yeah he's hitting damn well at 19 in A ball right now. But I'll bet you even money he just ends up another guy who plays solid baseball in AAA with strikeout issues and/or defensive deficiencies that keep him from amounting to anything more than a 2 win player.

And we never seem willing or capable of separating the wheat from the chaff before the word gets out and bundling them for guys that can actually matter long-term. And in a world where the corpse of James Shields netted Fernando Tatis Jr, why the hell do we sit on assets like Lynn and not go scooping up more guys that might become breakout players?

There's just a lot wrong with this team and the 40 man is gonna be damn interesting in a few months when we have to start protecting this giant assortment of misfit and redundant parts.

Tommy Pham: 1.5fWAR, 396 PA, three yrs control
Bryce Harper: 1.6fWAR, 450 PA, free agent in two months

Pham could be a really good player if he just hits 120+ more HRs before he reaches 25 years old.

In by far the worst season of Harper's career.

That really nothing more than a good indicator of how bad a season Harper is having.

this is again on Mo. hang on to all these prospects until a “crisis” with the 40 man or and Rule 5 draft causes them to dump prospects for a fraction of their prior worth.

I could see in the past of keeping a player because if they left through FA you’d get a 1st rounder. We have Wacha, Flaherty etc with those 1st rounders. But now that’s changed, you need to move players who have skills that are valued by other teams but that you have other players that can take their spots in the prospect order of things.

They must be better about moving players before their value drops.

Like in this case today, surely you can get a good prospect for Norris. In 6 weeks your not getting shit for him. Jose Martinez surely has value to an AL team?

Did you know Tommy Pham last year (6.1 fWAR) had a better season than all but 1 of Bryce's 7?

Archer to the Pirates

Dozier to the Dodgers

Glasnow is a lot of potential, as is Meadows. That's a heck of a package to surrender for an Ace in reputation only.

Glad we weren't involved in that. An equivalent package from us is probably O'Neill, Hudson and maybe someone like Junior Fernandez (who I don't like but he has asset value).

What did they get for Cole? At the end of the day, As far as prospects go, did they just swap out Cole for Archer?

And **** us getting involved if that was the package to give up. My rays fan buddy I bet is happy now.

Colin Moran and a bag of dicks. And frankly, you can probably just toss Moran into the bag as well; all pedigree and hype - I'd be shocked if he's ever a meaningful starter.

I mean prospects are prospects and at least Joe Musgrove (in the Cole deal) is probably a major leaguer for a few more years, so there's that. And there's no way to know how well this deal actually turns out - Meadows could bust in his own right.

But if I were assigning a numerical value to each of the players moved at the time they were moved, I'd say that the Pirates got less for Cole than they gave for Archer (and that's with the 3rd piece still pending, though he's probably like the Ramirez kid we got in the Pham deal - a fungible long-relief arm sort).

I like Cole 10X better than Archer. Wonder what our Pirate fans that post in here think about this?

If he thinks they got anything more than a borderline #2 starter and #3 on a legitimate contender, I would say that he's probably operating from a faulty premise...

Past the deadline now and not looking great for another trade of someone like Norris...

The Dodgers made a deal for John Axford, so we know that mediocre right-handed veteran relievers were in demand...

Brewers getting Jonathan Schoop from BAL. He started off the year horribly after a breakout 2017 but has rebounded decently in the past month.

I think Meadows is really, really overrated. He's never shown HR power in the minors and is probably a .260-.270 hitter and his walk rate has dropped significantly through every step up the ladder. Glasnow seems to have abandoned his changeup after going to the pen, which makes me wonder what he would get LHB out with, since his fastball and slider will both break into them. Is he just a relief pitcher with spotty control, a good-but-not-elite fastball, and a decent breaking pitch? Those don't seem terribly hard to find anymore.

Saw that one and figured Norris had to be worth something. He’s having a decent year and seems just like the type of vet reliever teams usually trade for to fill out their pen for the final stretch.

They think this team can win in 2019.

They're fools.

You've gotta move Norris at least, and have serious inquires about Mikolas and Martinez.

I would go out and buy Pham stock right now. He's hitting the ball just as hard as he was last year (where he got lucky), but his luck has inverted this year. Expect a late season bounceback. Not as severe as Carpenter's streak, but I would bet he hits .280-.300 with another 7-10 bombs before the season is over.

yet he’s still on this team that’s going nowhere and in 6 weeks we don’t get diddly squat for him when he moves on to his next team.

A great example of the missed opportunities to sell high on a player that Mo just let’s slip away.

I think we can win in 2019. Not win a playoff series against a good team win, but get into the playoffs.

How does not trading Norris effect 2019? He’s a FA in 2019.

Feels a lot like avoiding the optics of being 4 games back in the WC and trading the team’s closer.

Yeah, Glasnow is probably a reliever unless they can unlock his command. His fastball IS elite if he can spot it because of the amount of movement he gets in the mid-high 90s. It's damn near a true 80 pitch if he can spot the thing.

Meadows needs to embrace who he is. He appears to be trapped in the middle of being an Andrew Benintendi type (who he'd like to be) and a Manuel Margot sort of player who's production ends up BA dependent.

He has the ability to be something like Brett Gardner if he'd just focus on using all of his tools rather than try to become more powerful than his skillset says he can be. His biggest problem is that he doesn't have a real standout tool and doesn't seem to be aware of how to use a package of pretty good tools to become a solid ballplayer.

failure to take risks and just do the middling thing is how we got this “meh” brand of baseball in just a few short years.



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Entering 2015, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/stlcards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#stlcards</a> had five outfield prospects that we ranked in the Top 15 for Baseball America&#39;s top 30.<br><br>3. Piscotty<br>4. Grichuk<br>9. Tilson<br>10. Sierra<br>15. Pham<br><br>All have been in the majors this season. All now traded by <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cardinals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cardinals</a>. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MLB?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MLB</a></p>&mdash; Derrick Goold (@dgoold) <a href="https://twitter.com/dgoold/status/1024349240850571265?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 31, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Where are the wins coming from next year? You're looking at needing to add 10 wins to the team to get them into the playoffs.

Flaherty +
Mikolas -
Martinez +
Weaver =
Wacha =

Ozuna +
Bader +/=
O'Neill +
Fowler =

Gyorko =
Wong =
Carpenter -
Molina -
Munoz =
Martinez =

Where is the improvement coming from? Alex Reyes is more likely to spend the year on the DL than throw 60 innings, and there are no elite hitting prospects in the system. You'll get better performance from the pen, but not 10 wins' worth.

This is Carl Peterson bullshit. Bust free agent signings and a bunch of fan-overrated JAGs rounding out at aging core.

O’neill starting in CF tonight. Guess we are going to see if he’s ready for the big show now.

So the Cardinals almost made it through a trade deadline without making a deal with Cleveland. To avoid such shenanigans they shipped out Oscar Mercardo for...I dunno, I don't care.

I'm guessing Moe's just dealing for people that don't need to be on the 40 man at this point. Because of course he has to make trades like that...

I think we would finish 5-8 wins over .500 this year. So IMHO, we need to pick up 5 more wins. 90 wins get us into the playoffs.

We get those 5 wins with a better bullpen and starting pitching. Holland and Cecil blew at least 5 games themselves.

Starter rotation. (1 is injured or goes to the bullpen.)

Martinez
Wacha
Mikolas
Flaherty
Reyes
Weaver

Bullpen and backup starters
Gomber
Hudson
Hicks
Gant
Berbia
Mayer’s
Poncedeleon

We have other pitchers in the minors that may contribute in 2019?

I keep seeing the Cards including part of their international bonus pool money since they are limited to no more than $300k per international signing for 2018/19. I can’t seem to find a clear answer to what caused the team to be in this sort of penalty situation and curious if anyone knows the short answer.

Overspending in 2016-17. They do this every other year. Overspent in 2014-15, had to eat shit the year after.

The 2016 'year of dry powder'.

They spent 4 years ignoring guys like Jimenez and Moncada so they wouldn't blow past their international bonus allotment. Then in 2016 they assured us that they'd have a major international spending spree.

It yielded a bunch of international penalties and Jonatan Machado as their highest ranked prospect. It was the most underwhelming 'blowout' ever. Especially when they predictably did just enough to come in 2nd in the Luis Robert sweepstakes that year which would have made the penalties worth taking.

But no, as is their custom, they were content with half measures that did very little to boost the system but also hampered their ability to improve the team going forward. It was pretty much the amatuer player equivalent of giving up a 3rd round draft pick to sign a 'closer' that nobody wanted only so you can cut him in July.

Mozeliak sucks at this.

Suspected it might have been something like this. The best I could tell is it might have been cause from overspending but no idea what the hell it could have been on.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Cardinals trade Oscar Mercado to Cleveland for two young prospects <a href="https://t.co/AeSHrSGwse">https://t.co/AeSHrSGwse</a></p>&mdash; viva el birdos (@vivaelbirdos) <a href="https://twitter.com/vivaelbirdos/status/1024406752845025281?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 31, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

So Dj and Hamas, are these high ceiling lottery picks or JAG’s?

Jhon Torres is eighteen-years-old and is in the low minors in his second year in the minor leagues.

Conner Capel is twenty-one and playing on a low A team.

I like what I see in Capel. A lot (he's playing on a High A team, FYI; Carolina League).

Lefty who can probably stick in centerfield. Hit 22 HRs in his first year as a professional in a league that's slightly pitcher friendly with even home/rd splits (so it wasn't his home park that did it). Then this year he saw major improvements in both his K and BB rates with his K rate getting to above average and walk rate approaching excellent. The Carolina league is similar to the Midwest league - not brutal on hitters but trends a little pitcher friendly. He's also said to be a gamer and a hard-nosed player. Lot's of 'intangibles' references which speaks well to his ability to continue developing as he moves up.

Again - both of those lines and the development in them came on his first trip through the respective leagues. He's developing skill sets as a young player while moving up through the system. That's a fantastic indicator and suggests that there is a way for him to put all those tools together.

I'd put him in Springfield, to be honest. I know his numbers in A+ aren't stellar but I think his approach has been better than his slash line. Put him in the Texas League and let him take aim at the easier parks (and Hammond's friendly confines). It could do a lot to jumpstart his confidence and have him ready to hit the ground running in AA next season.

Honestly, if everything broke right with him you'd get a hybrid of Bader, Mercado and O'Neill. Less power than Bader and O'Neill but with a better hit tool (similar to Mercado). Not as defensively capable as Bader and Mercado but similar to O'Neill in that he can play CF credibly but is probably better suited to right. Not as likely to strike out as Bader and O'Neill but like O'Neill, more willing to draw a walk than Mercado and Bader.

He's an interesting player and as a lefty hitter he can complement the other young guys in the system nicely should they demonstrate untenable platoon splits at the big league level. He's exactly the kind of OF prospect I wanted to see us target in a Norris sort of deal. He fits a need in the system both in terms of skills and level of development (we have an impending AA gap, IMO, that he can help fend off). He's a very nice addition to the system and could move up prospect lists quickly.

Torres - eh. Seems to have some very good raw power that he hasn't quite tapped into yet. I'll just call him a young Jose Adolis Garcia until proven otherwise. There's no sense in following guys closely in RK ball - it doesn't mean a hell of a lot unless they suck there. He hasn't sucked so we'll see what he does next year if he can earn his way onto a full-season squad.

geezz man how do you know that much about some prospect in Cleveland? I thought you had a job?:rolleyes:

Thanks for the deep info in the guy. You say you like the guy a lot but the way you explain it is that someday he may be a little better than Mercado? We already had Mercado why trade for a guy that might someday be a little better?

Because like I said - he's further away and that's a GOOD thing for this team. They have JAG and Arozarenas, not to mention Bader and O'Neill they need to find ABs and roster space for now.

This frees a 40 man spot (which was kinda necessary after they added Hudson) and brings a lefty into the system that was almost exclusively righthanded before the addition of Capel and Williams.

Kieth Law and Baseball America chime in

Keith Law’s analysis is a subscription-service piece, but here are a couple of small excerpts:

On Cabrera: “Lefty Genesis Cabrera is a clear starter for me as long as he stays healthy, working at 93-96 with a plus changeup, often plus cutter, and show-me curveball … he has a No. 2 starter ceiling.”

On Williams: “A down year in Triple A (this season) after producing at every level below that, the 22-year-old was known for his big power in high school, but throughout pro ball he’s been a high-contact, ground-ball hitter never hitting more than 14 homers in a season. … if ever there were a player to work with on launch angle, Williams is it.”

Now, let’s look at what Baseball America had to say:

Baseball America on Williams: “He’s always hinted at potential through a series of loud tools, but it’s never quite come together all at once. His best tools are his plus or better throwing arm as well as above-average raw power that hasn’t manifested itself in games. … he will need to add lift to his swing to begin tapping into his power potential. If it all comes together, he has the makings of an everyday corner bat. If not, he could still have a role as a backup in the major leagues.”

Baseball America on Cabrera, age 21: “Although he still has a ground to make up as far as control and command are concerned, Cabrera was still the owner of one of the Rays’ system’s most electric arms. He brings a low-to mid-90s fastball with riding life from the left side and couples the pitch with a slider that has flashed plus this year. His 124 strikeouts in 113.2 innings are second in the Southern League. Scouts are split on Cabrera’s future, with some seeing a late-game reliever while others see a pitcher with the upside of a mid-rotation starter if everything comes together.”

Baseball America on RH reliever Roel Ramirez, age 23: “The third player in the Cardinals’ return is a relief-only prospect, but one who brings an explosive, mid-90s fastball to the table. He couples a fastball with a slider and split-fingered fastball, neither of which is average at this point.”

makes sense thanks. :thumb:

I'm not mad about the Pham trade. Or J. Martinez still being a Cardinal.

I am mad about Norris being a Cardinal after today with no other moves done to improve the 25 man roster today. There's no justification as to why he's still here. His contract is up after the season. The FO had an opportunity to sell and didn't.

I'm more irritated about his justification.

Moe says we're too close to contention and wants to know who would close if Norris were traded...

He still doesnt have the balls or self-awareness for this gig. I mean he was actually unnerved by the loss of Bud. ****ing. Norris.

Guys just a delusional chickenshit.

I saw that comment and it pissed me off as well.

If they thought they had a chance at contending, then make moves to support that notion. If you don't believe that you have a shot at contending, then cut dead weight.

This team would be better off going into 2019 with having the entire Memphis rotation handle bullpen duty with Hicks sprinkled in there than with Norris closing.

Oh, and to answer Mo's question, Leone when he comes back.

Can't wait until the Cardinals bring him up after two innings pitched at Memphis only for him to get promptly shellacked, blowing out his shoulder in the process. You know it's coming.

The 2nd wildcard was a mistake. Keep conceding to the Cubs and chase that last spot Mo, ya dipshit.

:cuss: some of a bitch that comment pissed me off.


I dont know what we could have got for Norris but it would have been something that could possibly help us in 2019 or beyond. Now its just another example of Mo playing it safe and continuing our new tradition of "meh" baseball.

We just spent the last few pages of this thread talking about this exact thing. That this type of move ia holding us back from returning to the level of play we expect from the Cardinals. If some Joe schmo's on an internet message board identified this issue, surely someone in the FO has had the same discussion and at least some reached the same conclusion?

I cant see any reason to act like this other than they want to keep 42K+ in the stands this season. Mo told us what his job was, at a press conference, cameras rolling, to make money for Dewitt.

They care more about making money than being a great team on the field.:sulk:

I'd have taken the relief prospect the Dodgers gave for Axford. He'd have just been another body to throw at the pile.

But hey, we're this close to being a 5 game winning streak away to being tied for a play-in game that we'll send Miles Mikolas up there on fumes to pitch in. So obviously we needed to hold Norris...

Here's hoping they had the wherewithal to have passed him through waivers some time ago. He doesn't make enough money to be someone who will obviously clear (Fowler) but if they slipped him in under the radar, they can get him traded in August.

MLB's new STL top 30 prospects:


http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2018?list=stl


Williams #9
Capel #10
Cabera #14
Eldridge #22
Gallegos #23


Agree? Disagree?

Elledge seems to low but that's understandable since the Mariners slow-played him. He needs time in AA to move up the lists much.

Williams is too high, IMO and Cabrera is too low. I'd put Capel at 9, Cabrera at 10, Roberts 11 and then Williams at 12.

But that's parsing things pretty thinly for a prospect list. I mean I'd move Fernandez, Woodford and Urias down 5-6 spots/each as well (maybe 10 spots for Fernandez. He's nearing non-entity status for me) and that would get Elledge up into the high teens and move Gingery up as well.

But man, that big ol' bunch of young pitchers in the 20s or so is just pretty fluid. I don't think you can argue too loudly over any of them and I suspect most of them will be off the list in a year or so anyway. Guys like Oviedo and Seijas stall out and fade away pretty quickly.

Lulz

“For the most part we are still committed to trying to win”.

/Mo
Today in STL Today article

Better hope a Mike Trout drops to you in the draft.

Fire him.

Fowler is the next to last worst hitter in MLB. .178. Only Chris Davis is worse. Since Matheny was fired, he has started every game. He’s hitting .200. There has been no turnaround nor improvement.

The Cardinals say there is a logjam of players in the outfield. You don’t think Bader and or O’neill improve your defense over Fowler? They Can’t hit >.200?
Your not playing to win. Don’t piss on our boots and tell us it’s raining.

I would think Bader wouldn't have anything to do with Fowler. He should be in CF.

Bader and O’neill are both CF. Both good defensively and fast.

As if on que, Bader doubles. O’neill Singles him home for the lead. O’neil Steals 2B.

$50+ million is a lot of shit to eat but at this point we’re are getting pretty deep into the season with no signs of life. Just looked and Chris Davis is still owed 92M after this year. Ouch.

That's what separates teams like Boston and the Dodgers. They are willing to eat shit on a bad contract, like Carl Crawford, whereas the Cardinals won't.

They could still bring up O'Neill and give Bader run with Pham here if they were willing to eat Fowler's deal, but just like Holland, they embody the Sunk Cost Fallacy.

O'Neill really isn't a CF, but Fowler has to play by edict, so they make two defensive positions worse at once.

Sandoval is another good example where Boston just cut a guy who clearly didn’t have it anymore and still had a ton left on his deal. Granted those two teams have much larger payrolls but the idea is still the same. Just because a guy is getting paid a lot isn’t a reason to let them continue to eat up space and playing time with a negative WAR.