Couldn't watch the entire game but from what I could see, except for the one humiliating whiff against an elite pass rusher where he blocked a poltergeist, he was OK\mediocre. Which is 100% better than what they had with Morris and the rookie. Pressure looked like it was coming from the interior and the right tackle. Thuney is a massive asset as an interior lineman. He can maul people and set a tone.

And where did Minnesota play a couple days ago?

People are really so scared that they would deliberately put an inferior lineup on the field for the playoffs.

I'm glad Andy and Veach are in charge.

He hasn't been 'really good' from what I've seen. But he's been solid, especially in pass pro.

Every time I watch him I think "Well that's Taylor at LT"

And yeah, he's gonna get paid. The $15 million is a pipe dream - it's gonna be more like $22-25 million.

I'd be fine walking away from Smith if it facilitates that.

And no, I don't love the idea of doing it. But with Kelce's decline, we're going to have to work outside the numbers more and that's going to take more time than 'losing slowly' can routinely provide us.

We need a guy who can/will kick out and form a pocket on a deep drop.

Paying Cam Robinson is one of the dumbest things they could do.

Hate to disagree bud but they have been hiding Wanya all year. It must have been hard for Andy to shift to a heavy run based offense to about 2 months.

And yeah they got rid of the ball so fast with Rice. Screens, quick passes, runs, max protection on a few of the deep passes. I remember some posters here and all of Twitter hammering Mahomes for his low ADOT calling him a checkdown merchant who can’t throw deep anymore.

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Ball is out just as fast as it was when Thuney was there. Also I miss Rashee Rice :(

LT's and Pass Rushers are expensive, even the good not great ones.

You want a great one or a cheap one? Draft him and develop him.

We don't seem to be able to do that, so the next option is....

I guess that's how the Texans and Steelers ended up being two of Pat's fastest release times IN HIS CAREER?

You should watch the games again. You're definitely missing something.

Any chance the Chargers would trade us Rashawn Slater?

The Chargers are probably going to pay him and then draft Jeanty, pure Harbaugh.

DJ is not in football shape. Only 17 plays in the first half (including 2 three and outs) before his lack of stamina became a liability.

Based on mocks and what we know, Josh Simmons might be our best shot. Kid looked so good for Ohio State but tore his ACL in late October vs Oregon. He’s not gonna be working out at the combine in Indy which greatly helps us so his stock won’t be as high.

Maybe you bring back Humphries for a year and draft his kid late 1st rd and red shirt him a year to recover?

That’s the type of options we have unfortunately.

There's too many good RB's in this draft. They'll find one though.

They put Alt at LT this weekend, he's just so good there, I'm kinda thinking they go cheaper at RT, tag and trade Slater for a haul and build.

Yeah, ultimately the stats don't lie.

The offense we ran with Thuney was just completely different than what we'd been doing.

Mahomes on deep throws this year takes 3.3 seconds to throw.
Intermediate -- 3.23
Short -- 2.41
Behind LOS -- 1.74

Against Houston and Pittsburgh he averaged less than 2.5 seconds. You're going to struggle to throw intermediate routes in that period of time, let alone anything downfield.

What was frustrating people wasn't the games like those with ADTs of around 6 yards and pop times of 2.4ish. It was games like New Orleans at 3.1 seconds and an ADOT of 4.4. Carolina at 3.1 and 6.6.

I think in a perfect world what I'd want to see is about 2.8 seconds as average time to throw and about 8.5-9 as the average depth of target. I feel like about the closest we got to that this year was the first Raiders game.

And I'm just not willing to live at 2.5-2.6 all season. That's just not going to allow us to use enough of the playbook. We'd get really predictable, really fast.

Re: 2025, I see Joe Noteboom on the FA list, still, and that has my interest if he gets out of LA.

He's a good pass blocker. Not a superstar LT, but above-average. About to turn 30. No idea what his price would be or if the Rams will pay big to keep him, but he's never mentioned in the FA list, and I think he's - at worst - pretty comparable to Robinson.

I wouldn't go to 22M/year on either of them, though...

Here's an interesting stat to look at -- PMs 2022 season.

That was his last truly elite passing season, right? Won the MVP and did it without a slew of elite weapons. Maybe the best he's ever been and did it with merely adequate play from OBJ at LT. 5,200 yards and 40 TDs.

Average time to throw on the season -- 2.85 seconds. Average depth of target -- 7.5.

So perhaps I'm being too aggressive saying I'd like to see that around 8.5-9. But if you can get that ADOT to 7.5-8 and an average pop time of 2.8-2.9, you sure look to be in a sweet spot.

Don't do the positional value thing with Harbaugh, he builds teams completely not giving a **** about it.

GoChiesfs says it will be Thuney…you can now put DJ in there at LT in pen.

You had Kelce going nuts that year though. I'd prefer to see them get back to more explosion outside, but with the LT issue's it may not be in the cards.

I can't give you anymore rep right now but this post is definitely rep-worthy.

I am convinced that it if Rashee and Hollywood don’t get hurt you have nobody saying anything bad about Patrick.

Rashee was giving us what Kelce did in 2022 before he got hurt. God that guy was gonna be in All-Pro conversations.

He was on track to have 1,600 yards and 11 TD’s

No doubt in my mind that he ends up at least 3rd and receiving and top 5 in TD’s if Patrick doesn’t kill his knee.

Reading through this stuff I wonder if the reason the ball wasn't coming out faster some of the time is because our O line wasn't keeping the passing lanes clear for those routes.

You don't think defensive coordinators and opposing DE's figured out Thuney has shorter arms than most typical OT's in real time? You don't think these guys know how to counter an opposing player with shorter arms without having to figure it out over several games?

Of course they have, that's why we took all the deep developing plays out of the offense once Thuney moved.

This offense needs an intermediate and deep game to keep defenses honest. They're not getting that with Thuney.

It’s been a rough stretch tbh. Even with Orlando Brown Jr it was rough.

I think Eric Fisher might be the most underrated draft pick of this generation. Sure do miss that guy.

It's less about dealing with Thuney and more about adjusting to how WE'RE dealing with Thuney.

Like I said - they could very easily figure something out as quickly as the Divisional Round. If we aren't doing anything but 3 step drops and firing in 2.5 seconds, they can really condense their coverages quite a bit.

Bullshit LMAOLMAO

Not only can they condense their coverages but they can play close to the LOS, allowing them to stop the run without any scheme help.

Thanks for posting these. They make my case perfectly.

Kinda makes the case for you in a different way. Boy Caliendo got worked badly on some of these. He’s not been as good as indicated.

That gives me hope that Kingsley can play G though. Really liked what I saw from him there in Denver.

This is why we discuss averages, Clay.

Yes, the occasionally push the ball. But on average, they're working the ball underneath.

And that's not to say you CAN'T win this way. You absolutely can. My point being that Andy doesn't really want to. And over a long enough timeline, trying to win this way gets harder and harder.

It's strange to me that after all the caterwauling over Alex Smith looking short to long, we now seem eager to embrace exactly that. There aren't many chokepoints in an NFL offense but 2 of the most obvious ones are QB and OT.

And if your OT is forcing your QB to fire the ball in under 2.5 seconds on average then your OT play has turned your QB into a game manager. I'm fine SURVIVING that way, but I damn sure don't want to PLAN for it.

Yes, those intermediate and deep throws make the case for you perfectly that the intermediate and deep portions of our passing game have been removed. ROFL

So you'd rather play a guy who has NEVER played OG at LG instead of moving the HoF caliber OG back to OG and installing the guy who played LT at a pro-bowl level at LT?

That's...odd.

Every one of those throws was drop and fire. Not a one of them took very long to develop.

The play calling has been night and day different since they put They at LT. It's painfully obvious yet people want to ignore it because they're scared.

They were scared of a team that didn't even make the playoffs. They were scared that LT would tank our season.

People, we are rooting for a 15-2 team in the brink of doing something no team has done before. Stop being scared pussies.

Drop and out. Drop and out.

If you can't see it, I can't help you. Watch more football.

The LT position has given some of this fan base PTSD.

COWARD. TRAITOR. LOSER.

Thats Clay for like a month now.

Not at all. I’m talking about next year if we lose Trey. I think Kingsley might just be a solid RG candidate in 2025.

One move and go routes.

Those are more viable now that we have a guy who can win those cuts in Brown. But what you don't have are those really good zone breakers that create confusion on the back end. The drags that require the WR get to the other side of the field, for instance. The deep crossers.

Corner routes? Yeah, you still have those. You can use smash concepts and wreck a cover 2 for instance (can get cover 4 as well). If Kelce turns it back up, you can really do some work on that corner route. Worthy could get it done from the slot.

But those get chewed up by Cover 3. So then you want to go to like a Y Cross or something to get downfield and you just can't do that with these short drops.

I think we'd see a lot of cover 3 looks (which also allows that safety to come down and play the run better) and with the short drops, we have less and less that can attack those.

Guys I’m cleary talking about next year if we lose Trey. Kingsley has played G for one game. Sheesh LMAO

And yet another point. Clay’s gif’s make the case for keeping Hollywood. Those quick passes were because of him.

I was at the game vs Houston. Him being out there changed everything. It made Worthy better. It opened up the middle of the field for Kelce/Hopkins. It opened up Watson being a rotational guy instead of “the guy” (and boy has he had some chances there).

Those are not all 3-step drops plays. Not even close LMAO.

You made a false statement. Own it.

With Morris, Nourzad and Kingsley, I'm not even a little worried about losing Smith next season.

Someone can fill that role just fine. But I'd still rather it NOT be Kingsley. Guys that big with that kind of athleticism are really rare and they're vital to finding an 'island' LT. If you want one of those, you have to get the guy with the traits to do it.

Kingsley has 'em.

Let him work through the kinks.

You don't have to get sour! I know what I saw and Humphries just ain't got it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that!

I didn't say anything about the number of steps taken. Ever.

I'm talking about timing. Every one of those throws is made at precisely the end of the drop.

It's all quick passing.

You're scared of the playoffs. Admit it.

By the way, plays are kind of designed to come out when the QB reaches the end of his drop, whether it's 3-step, 5-step or 7-step....like WTF man LMAO...you accuse ME of not knowing ball?

Joe Thuney is the LT. DJ Humphries isn't coming to save this team.

Wanya Morris is basically a perfect fit to slide in at RG, not worried about next year.

If you don't keep Hollywood, you need to find someone to replace him.

As you noted, those plays just don't work without Hollywood. That's why I keep saying that I think HE'S been more critical to the offense than Thuney.

Hollywood's presence allows us to utilize those concepts that can still get you a little downfield on shorter drops. Without him (or a rejuvenated Kelce) those are just not in the playbook.

Because lets all remember that Thuney played LT vs. Cleveland and our offense looked as bad as it looked all season. It wasn't until Brown showed up vs. Houston that suddenly those plays started working.

What's why I keep saying I'm not convinced Thuney's move to LT is what made the difference. I think it may have been Brown's return. He's MASSIVE to this intermediate and downfield game.

look at this "quick pass" LMAO



what are you smoking man?

Designed or not you know the Chiefs passing game with Mahomes has rarely ever looked like that.

Oh that was never in doubt.

You know what you know -- you made that quite clear.

Yeah, if they're designed that way, why does Mahomes hold the ball longer than over half the other QBs in the league?

The coaches want DJ out there for a reason. But I'm sure you know better than they do.

I'd like to know what dude saw, he watched a dude knocking off rust in the altitude of Denver while having Kingsley as his LG, all things considered he performed pretty well.

Do you understand statistics?

Congrats on finding a single play.

ROFL

I'm sure he'll be out there after that command performance in Denver.

Yea pretty obvious why they want him out there, even if you like quick passing, rhythm, on time and all that...Mahomes holding the ball and breaking the pocket is where the big game changing plays come from.

And when he is? You going to accept reality or wring your hands about a 15-2 team coming off 2 straight titles?

Add yourself to the cowards, traitors, and losers list bud. Stop being scared. It's unbecoming for you.

Obviously the best solution is to play our elite LG at LT where he's an average player so our run game suffers, you gotta do it right?

Its interesting -- I've said all season that I don't think Andy 'saves the good plays' rather I think he's a guy who won't spam the ones that work in the regular season.

But I'm not seeing that against Houston and Pitt.

Those all look like spamming a couple of very similar concepts and they all look to be largely built around a smash sort of concept. Slot fades, corner/flats -- stuff like that. And the reason Andy doesn't spam that stuff is that he doesn't want to give coaches the tape to diagnose/attack them. I mean if I'm watching those weeks and I'm a DC, I'm coming out with a heavy Cover 3 gameplan because about none of what I'm seeing there should work against that.

But think about those bunch sets we like that we LOVE running the slot crosser from -- we can't run that with the short drops and that stuff MURDERS Cover 3.

With Thuney, I think we give teams about 60% as much to worry about. From a schematic standpoint, it's not working with one hand behind your back, but maybe with one hand in a cast or something.

Now execution takes priority over scheme. If you just can't execute the whole playbook, so be it.

I'm just not convinced that's the case. Or not convinced it's any more likely to be the case with Humphries at LT than Thuney.

It's you who are the coward for wanting to abandon the great and powerful Joe Thuney.

LMAO

It's pretty accurate, after Hopkins got here, they ran the 3 receivers to 1 side and Hopkins by himself inside the 10...Hopkins got wide open both times and they stopped running that play.

I'd love to see Humphries at LT AND PLAY GOOD! But wishing ain't gonna make it happen....no matter how much hyperbole you put into it!!!!

Okay.

I mean I've discussed stats, traits, technique and scheme in this thread. I've conceded that the risk is real and I may not even be willing to take it.

Your response is "He got manhandled"

When it's pointed out that hey - there are clips in this very thread showing that he had a great deal many very good reps and on the bad reps there have been suggestions made as to why that may have been communications problems.

Your response is "I know what I saw"

And when your intransigence is pointed it its...."well that's just hyperbole..."

I mean keep on keepin' on, brotha. You're covering yourself in glory here.

The rest of us will just go on talking about actual football around you. Because you clearly know all you need to know and as such, I probably wouldn't put any more effort into the conversation were I you...

The flip side of that is that fretting that he will play poorly doesn’t mean that will… no matter how much hyperbole you put into it!!!

I guess I need to go find my hyperbole.

I mean I'm fairly certain I've said that he was solid but unspectacular and struggled more in the second half than then first. I've said that Thuney has done yeoman's work in salvaging the position of late while the coaching staff did well to work around his shortcomings.

I know I didn't say stuff like "Humphries got manhandled" at any point.

Maybe I just don't know the word as well as I thought I did.

Because I see plenty of hyperbole in this thread...but it ain't from my side of this discussion...

This is the same poster who this morning said that the team would “panic” if the team had to have a player switch positions in the middle of a game.

Classic case of projecting his own hyperbolic efforts onto someone else.

Well, better hope Humphries balls out.

Can't wait to bump this thread after the divisional when mahomes drop 300 and 3 tuddies with half our playbook in the shitter because joe thuney is a special needs LT.

That's all my feels today LMAO

Dude, he kind of is.

He's not going to lose immediately at the snap often, he's too smart, but he's a Guard, not a Tackle.

Come on now.

The best case scenario is that Humphries is ready to go and gives us solid OT play.

This is what we should all be hoping for.

This is the play I find the most interesting of the lot.

Because that's slower developing. Hopkins isn't on a drag, but he's not on a quick hitter either. That route takes that full 3 seconds or so to develop.

But what Mahomes did that he has historically been reluctant to do is step up rather than drift back. And man, you'd love to see him do that more, but it's just never been a go-to move for him. It seems like it's about 4th on his list of preferred options.

And what almost blew it up anyway, despite Mahomes showing really nice feel for the pocket, is that Caliendo got absolutely abused.

That's the sort of play that you could do a lot if A) Mahomes would step up rather than drift back and B) Thuney were in at LG instead of Caliendo.

Presuming that Humphries can give you the rep that Thuney did there. And that play is a prefect representation of how Thuney wins -- he gets aggressive and controls the rep. Attacks the DE and gets walked backwards rather than get backwards and try to absorb the DE.

Humphries CAN give you exactly that sort of pocket doing it his way. Frankly, his way is the better way to get it done. Does he have the stamina to do it in the 3rd quarter? Or on the 8th play of a drive? I just don't know.

But I know that I'd be reluctant to try that play again given how badly Caliendo got beat on that play.

What I'm hoping for is that Houston beats the Chargers.

Because the Chargers DC is smaaaaaart. I'm confident we can beat Houston with 1/3 of our playbook. Andy's 15 scripted plays in random order may be enough.

But that damn Chargers DC is gonna have something in his pocket if we play them and Thuney is the LT. He'll make things hard on us, IMO.

Humphries ain't ready to go, so get ready to cope with Simple Joe at LT.

https://i.imgur.com/jEDweZm.jpeg

NOW IT'S ONE THIRD? ROFL

Slants, crossers and curls ONLY!

Troll job.

I'm saying Houston sucks.

Hand Mahomes the Tecmo Bowl playbook and that'll get the job done. Houston doesn't worry me a bit.

I'm trying out this 'hyperbole' thing to see how it suits me...

Admittedly, there's a LOT of masturbating going on in this thread.

It's gonna be what it's gonna be.

Ain't shit we have to say that's gonna change that.

11 more days of "Joe Thuney is basically an amputee"

This is basically Joe Thuney getting into his pass pro stance:

http://www.ahatalent.co.uk/portfolio/MF-KungFu.jpg

Turns out you are a natural at this hyperbole thing.

Need Minter and Vance to get HC jobs bc they have both been excellent unfortunately.

AFC West is gonna be a battle. It might be looking like this years NFC North.