Berry wouldn't play, period. Clark at least suits up. That's the difference. That being said, this chode better get his ass on the field and wreck the Patriots.

People had high standards for Hitchens and there have been threads about his poor play. Wtf are you even talking about?

Isn't it telling that you're comparing Clark to Hitchens? In your rush to defend him, you ****ed your whole argument up

You didn’t watch the dude kick ass in the Broncos and Chargers game?

They said the same shit about Hitchens. Have you seen him be an ass kicker in any game for us?

I’m against any of these big moves bc they rarely work out. It’s too much pressure and expectations (Pat is obviously worth that).

How often has a team traded high resources for a player and it worked out for that team better than it did for the team that traded them?

When I said he played really well and looked really explosive and that I REALLY hoped he'd be able to carry that forward into a critical gaem against a tough matchup?

And then saw him give us virtually a carbon copy of the other 80% of the season he's played when he was "just doing his job"?

You hand waive every single disappointing effort he gives and act as though it wasn't disappointing.

Straight out - was this the performance you were expecting when we signed him? Was Sunday's game the "STUD!" efforts you were calling for with Frank Clark?

Or was it just another disappointing effort to throw on his ever-increasing pile of really mediocre games.

Damn, still going?

Sad.

He cost us no draft capital and 1/3 the cap outlay that Clark will.

If Clark were sporting Okafor's contract (who's also been lousy), he wouldn't have a thread dedicated to him. All you need to do as proof of that is look for the "Okafor ****ing sucks" thread.

It doesn't exist. And Okafor is a LOT better analogue than Frank Clark.

And none of them are feathers in Veach's cap.

So your whole argument is that people shouldn't be mad at Clark not playing up to expectations because our big deal players rarely play up to expectations?


....I guess that's one way to look at it.

And I'm saying that at this point the only way to salvage the trade is for him to wreck shit in the post-season. And that would go a LONG way to salvaging the deal.

So just sit the guy and get him healthy at this point. Stop sending him out there to 'justify' the deal if this is the kind of scattershot effort we're going to get out of him.

Get him right and get your second bite at the apple. Have him come back in week 17 to knock the rust off and be ready to go in the post-season. And then if he comes out and rapes faces you're right - all will be forgiven.

The way he's being handled to this point doesn't seem to help that possibility though.

In fairness, that's kinda been Run's thing for a few months now.

His argument really has been that we shouldn't be critical of Clark because ALL big-money defensive acquisitions seem to fail. And as such, the problem isn't Clark, it's big money defensive FA's writ large.

You're right...it's a novel way to look at it. It's damn sure better than "he's just doing his job". It's really the argument I made at the time of the trade - I wasn't even anti-Clark as much as I was wholly opposed to using that kind of draft capital on a guy we ALSO had to give big money to.

I don't disagree with him on his underlying premise - but it's not really a defense of Frank Clark at all. It's just a different sort of indictment on both him AND Veach.

Which came first? The Frank Clark or the sucks?

:popcorn:

:bolt:

Clark also replaced a very good player for us. As many jokes as could be made about Dee Ford, the difference between him and the players Hitchens was replacing is night and day. Hitchens will replacing dog shit. We weren't choosing him over another person. We essentially picked Clark over another good player. Add contract and draft picks and I think there is quite a gap between Hitchens and Clark.

I understand and am fine with the decision to make the switch, but expectations are reasonably higher for Clark than Hitchens. BTW Hitchens had his time as the whipping boy on here.

I do think it's legitimately funny that DJ couldn't even wait an hour after we blew the Raiders out before starting in on his weekly Clark tirade, but he's not wrong. That wasn't the Clark from the Chargers or Broncos games. He had one play then went MIA.

Your whole argument for bitching at Clark when he’s hurt was that you would rather have one dimensional brokedick Dee Ford aka worst player in the history of the franchise.

You should probably review your own stance before criticizing others.

No my whole point is that we could have spent a first and second round pick and $105 Million better. And yeah Dee Ford (franchised) + 1st round pick + $100 million saved is a better use of that money.

Even better would be Justin Houston + 1st round pick + 2nd round pick + ~$80 milliom saved.

Ah yes, I’m sure the board would have been completely fine with Veach relying on draft picks in an “all in year” after being a penalty away from the SB. I’m sure they would be okay after being furious with him drafting Breeland Speaks LMAO

Anyone who advocates continuing employment for Dee Ford, aka worst Chief of all time, should have some sense beaten into them with a branch from the AID’S tree.

Houston would have cost us over $20 million this year. Clark is $6.5 million. We wouldn’t be able to get Honey Badger this year if we keep Houston. Goes both ways.

You really are an angry little pessimist...

We just curb stomped the raiders and you're still complaining...

Clark hasn't been as good as we'd hoped for, but, jesus look at the light at the end of the tunnel

This thread is about Frank Clark lmao. It would be one thing if I went into the rep thread or any other thread and talked about it, but this thread is about Frank Clark. I talked about Frank Clark. If you don't want to read about Frank Clark not having an impact, then you probably shouldn't come in this thread 10 out of 12 weeks.

I also went to the Darwin Thompson thread and gave him props for how he played and expressed how I want to see him play when teams also have to account for us passing. Are you going to go in that thread and praise me for being an optimist?

Well I'm just going to level with you here, I understand your disappointment with Frank Clark. He hasn't been worth the bill of goods he was sold for...

But it gets to a level with you shitting all over chiefs players where I have to ask, are you constantly on your period?

King has been on his period since his mom started getting them.

There's a reason we call him King Pussy.

:facepalm:

Alright Clay - how'd you chart the first 3 run plays? Because I'm just watching the game on TV for the first time.

The 2nd and 3rd runs were terrible reps by Clark. The 2nd (on 2nd and 10) ran right through the B gap to his side and if he does anything at all, he forces Jacobs to change direction and he doesn't hit the gap with a full head of steam. Instead he lets a TE completely direct him out of the play on a relatively slow developing play that he should've been able to impact. A simple inside move (again, against a TE) and he can make that play in the backfield or at least knock Jacobs off path and keep it to a gain of a couple.

Then on the 3rd and short Clark gets stood straight up and as everyone stacks in the middle, if he could put a helmet into Richard and driven him sideways to stop his forward momentum, he probably doesn't get that secondary drive to push the pile and get the 1st. Instead the dude just stands there watching the play and pumping his fist...after Richard got the 1st.

Those are the kinds of plays you just ignore because they 'ran away from Clark' but they didn't. They ran LG and he took himself WAY out of the play on the first one, then on the second they ran up the chute and again he was taken out wide so he couldn't provide support.

Man - the guy was not good. At all. I'm not gonna sit here and watch every play he was involved in because I'm just back in the damn office and have shit to do while this is in the background, but I'm 4 snaps into a quarter where there's "nothing to complain about at all" in your words and this dude is doing 3rd round pick stuff and has had 2 run plays where he simply wasn't competitive.

He DID get doubled on the Mathieu pick - a true double at that. But man, how !@#$ing bad is Derek Carr? That pocket was clean and Carr just throws it right to Mathieu. That dude suuuuuuucks.

Hope to hell this is just an off-year and he can stay healthy going forward.

So we can't discuss a player who is underperforming? Or what exactly do you want? And what other chiefs players have I been shitting on? I'll wait.

The funny thing is that I'm pretty sure I was one of if not the first person to give Clark his props in this thread after the chargers game. But when I note he had another bad game and isn't living up to expectations, there's a problem.

In run defend, Clark’s hand placement is terrible. He takes on way too much surface area of any given blocker, and struggles to shed. His pass rush arc was way too deep last game as well - you do this at times to setup future counters, but he was getting washed 3-4 yards out at times.

Frank: less talk, more football.

Dude I'm not going to sift through your posts, and I'm not here often enough for people to make impressions on me, but you need an antidepressant or a change of loyalty.

You ALWAYS seem to hate any direction the chiefs are going.

That said flame away at me for not providing examples, I fully admit I did not do that, but as I said, it seems incredibly odd that almost every time I pop in here and I see a comment from you, it's negative or angsty

You mean Everytime you pop in a thread called Frank Clark ****ing sucks and Frank Clark had been bad 10 out of 12 weeks my comments are negative?


Whoa! You think that maybe there's a correlation between bad play and negative reactions? Nah, can't be.

Sorry I wasn't clear enough, I meant CP in general.

I apologize for engaging you in the first place.

You win.

Long pass play to Washington was a play where Carr had all day to throw.

Frank Clark was 1v1 against a TE and the TE just arced him right out of the play so that Carr could just stand there after 4 seconds and dump it off to the RB. Clay says he "Beat the TE around the edge..."

My ass - the guy ran himself out of the play and couldn't press the edge on a damn TE. The TE did exactly what he'd have been coached to do against a guy he's giving size to - simply route him out of the play. And Clark was happy to oblige him by simply making himself a non-factor as Carr stood stock still, surveyed the field and dumped off for a 30 yard gain.

For ****s sake, Clay - I just happened to look up when I heard a long play and watched the replay. You're really telling me you 'objectively' reviewed this game, finished the 1st quarter and found "nothing to bitch about?"

This is pathetic, even by your standards. I'm barely even watching and found two plays they 'ran away from him' on where his ineffectiveness mattered and a 3rd where he 'beat the TE round the edge' by running 2 yards behind where the QB was standing and never so much as presented a credible threat to Carr.

If ANYONE wants to get a good feel of Clay's 'objective review' of Frank Clark, just watch the first damn quarter. This is a master class in complete bullshit.

The funny thing is I know you can't name another player I'm negative about because there aren't any. I'm not even negative about the Chiefs. I've posted in numerous other threads how we're still Superbowl contenders and how I think it will come between us and the Ravens for the AFC.

But somehow you missed that because I'm critical of Frank Clark.

I bowed out, you won the argument...

I have given you the W

Leave it be, I won't even attempt to converse with you in the future

It's not different if course. You put words in people's mouth just like you claim he did with you.

A very ****ing high one. And if his dick is now broke after Veach let him walk through the door KNOWING that he had issues with his nerves and god-knows what else, then the strikes are mounting against that little turd.

Was is Clarks PFF ratings for the season and per game?

You know he's full of shit when hes not posts of Clark being a badass. If he had any video of Clark doing anything halfway good, then we'd be seeing gifs of it. I ask him and he bows out by saying watch the game. I think there's a 95% chance he's trolling and a 5% chance he actually believes this bullshit.

Still better than Clowney...

So he sees you complaining about players all the time, but he cant even bring up 1 other player and doesnt wanna sift through your posts to find another player you bitched about?

I welcome him to GIF the play of "Clark beating the TE to the edge..." so we can see just how fair he's being here.

I mean that's a hilariously slanted view of what Clark did on that play. Dude gets a 1v1 rep on a TE, runs himself out of it, Carr has all day to throw the ball and despite excellent coverage downfield he has plenty of time to dump it short to the RB for a massive gain.

It was exactly the kind of play you want to see Clark prevent - it was a coverage sack waiting to happen for an expensive DE matched up on a TE but instead we hear "well he just didn't get any pass rush reps..."

Uh huh...sure.

Here's the best I can do since I don't know how to rip a GIF from YoutubeTV and if you try to screen capture it it just goes blank so I had to take a picture of my monitor. I believe the point is made.

This is nearly 3 seconds into the play and Clark is JUST getting within 10 feet or so of Carr. Carr's moving on from his 2nd read just as I snapped this and Clark's next step or two actually take him FURTHER away from Carr before he finally wheels an edge after running 15 yards to get around a damn tight end.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/pictu...pictureid=1925

Clark "beat the TE to the edge" alright. "Just doing his job..."

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/pictu...pictureid=1926

By the time he finally gets around him, he's nearly a full 5 yards away from Clark (meanwhile Tanoh, going against an actual LT, is putting genuine pressure on Carr) and Carr is now looking back across the middle, probably back to his 1st read (because the out route that was his second read is hemmed into the sideline).

And because Clark took 6 days to find a way around a friggen backup TE, Carr had enough time for Washington to sneak out from behind Sorensen and present an outlet for a big gain.

There's nothing objective about Clay's review here and he knows it. That was wholesale defeat of Frank Clark and we get "Nothing to bitch about in the first quarter...."

Sure, Clay.

There is no way Clay thinks that is an actual win. That's about as big of a loss you can have as a DE rushing the passer, the only thing worse is getting pancaked. Clark takes himself out of the play completely and the only way Clark could win that is if Carr pulls an Alex Smith and runs into him. If a pass rusher is going to try to speed rush around a blocker (why the **** is he trying to speed rush against a TE) than he damn sure better know he's going to be quick enough to get around the blocker before he's 10 yards down field, because by doing what Clark did he's not collapsing the pocket and hes not in Carr's throwing lane, so he can't knock a pass down. A blocker is going to take that every single play.

How Clay can think of that as a win blows my mind

Just doing his job.

Nothing to bitch about in that 1st quarter, brah. Never got a pass rush rep.

I don't believe I counted that as a win. It wasn't a dreadful play though.

The Frank Clark we saw Sunday wasn't great, but the sample size on pass rush was so small it was hard to get a read.

Just quit trying to get 'payback' for being wrong based on a handful of plays. It's a pathetic reach.

So....

Is he injured? Probably won’t know till tomorrow, but hasn’t heard a peep

Precisely what qualifies as a dreadful play in your eyes? Apart from falling to the ground at the snap, he couldn't have been any less effective.

You realize that, right? Like, this is you trying to cover for a guy you like and not you simply not having any concept of what constitutes a shitty rep - isn't it?

My point is ultimately that when you make declarative statements like "it was hard to get a read" or "they just kept running away from him" - that needs to be taken with a MASSIVE grain of salt. Because you seem to believe that he was fine on that pass rush rep and that plays that run off guard to his side rather than off tackle to his side simply don't involve him and as such he can't be analyzed on those either.

This isn't 'payback' - it's pointing out that you're either a dishonest narrator or an ignorant one. You're welcome to take your pick.

Dude was bad on Sunday.

0 points allowed till late in the 4th. All that really matters

Writ large, you're correct.

If the defense plays like the defense played Sunday every week, we'll be in damn nice shape. The secondary came to play (man did they; even Claiborne looked like an NFL player, if not a particularly great one) and Ragland was humming. Wilson made a nice play or two and Hitchens wasn't actively wretched.

That DT rotation is ****ing serious. K-Pass even had himself a really nice 'motor' sack and filled in nicely. Fuller even got in late to knock some rust off.

There was a TON to like about that performance by many individual defenders.

But that ain't the title of this thread...

The Raiders weren't running to left guard at all.

I can admit his pass rush, overall, left me wanting, but he did affect the play on two of his rushes. Given more opportunity he could have logged a couple sacks.

It's just a lot of overreaction on your part.

So I was correct about your kneeherk reaction that his play will be awesome here on through with one nice performance against the Chargers

suck my cock negative nancy

nothing goes right in your chiefs world

yet here we are

You can bet Clay and I will both go nuclear if he comes up empty and costs us in the postseason

Negative?

Dude, I'm not shitting on Clark I want him to do well, but the guy isn't the second coming of Bruce Smith or even Neil Smith.

I haven't read a positive post from you all year.

LMAO

This is really good news. I suspect Clark had the flu last week, and it affected his performance. And that his neck is just fine.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/biXtqH5Nbp">pic.twitter.com/biXtqH5Nbp</a></p>&mdash; Frank Clark (@TheRealFrankC_) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheRealFrankC_/status/1203192844502085632?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 7, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Broke Dickitis

things I was today years old when I found out:

That Jordan didn’t have the flu in that finals game. He actually had food poisoning from the night before.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theunde...-flu-game/amp/

We're playing our sworn ****ing enemy this week.

STOP IT

BE A HOMER THIS WEEK

LMAO

LMAO

I'm sure that's it!

Hey dudes, I'mma buy a new toothbrush at the store today. Just one of those things. What's the name of that one brand that's really popular? Something about being able to get to areas of your mouth that other brands can't?
What was that brand name again?

Thx!

Dee Ford and Justin Houston were complete shit against the Patriots twice last year.

Frank Clark and Honey Badger were fan mother****ing tastic tonight.

He played well today. Had a couple TFLs/right at the line of scrimmage on wide runs to his side, a nice sack in the first half, and an insanely important immediate pressure on the game-winning 4th down stop.

Nice job, Frank.

Now we just need him to stay healthy for the stretch run and make some waves when it matters most.

Clark had a good game today ....

https://twitter.com/realmnchiefsfan/...361887232?s=21

Key pressure on the final play.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Frank Clark is wearing a shirt that reads “The West is not enough.” <a href="https://t.co/eJfdPPleCZ">pic.twitter.com/eJfdPPleCZ</a></p>&mdash; Adam Teicher (@adamteicher) <a href="https://twitter.com/adamteicher/status/1203846559064039426?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 9, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Played a complete game. That's why we brought him in

Guy showed up against the Pats and that goes a long way.

Showed up in a big game....the trade value will be determined in the post season

Today went a long way in my book.

Add a few postseason efforts like this and a SB and I’ll buy myself a Veach Jersey.

Hey DJ

https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/p...ssqwu9k7cm.jpg

Once again...... he looked like the opposite of suck today, in a huge game, on the road.

That shirt needs to be everywhere. Literally every person in KC needs to don this every ****ing day.

It’s on sale. It’s the AFC West division champs shirt

Bad shoulder.. Sick... yeah.. he earned some respect...

/thread. That’s why we got him. Just needs to rinse and repeat in January

Now that's what I'm talking about :thumb:

HELL YEA!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The stories coming out of KC locker room re Frank Clark sound made up. They’re not. <br><br>Terrible stomach virus. <br><br>Lost twelve pounds since Monday. <br><br>Was in hospital. <br><br>His “Flu Game” and was biggest win of <a href="https://twitter.com/Chiefs?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Chiefs</a> season. <a href="https://twitter.com/ArrowheadPride?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ArrowheadPride</a></p>&mdash; Peter Schrager (@PSchrags) <a href="https://twitter.com/PSchrags/status/1203858481201197056?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 9, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is nuts. Schrager says Clark had lost 12 lbs since Monday with a stomach virus. https://twitter.com/pschrags/status/...201197056?s=21