You sure?

Soto was in A ball to start the year and missed almost all of 2017. He was in the mid-20s in most pre-season lists and had been promoted off of them by the time the mid-season lists came out.

Acuna and Vlad were 1-2 on all pre-season lists with Freddie Tatis in 3rd on most of them, IIRC. Forrest Whitley was generally the top pitching prospect until his PED suspension.

I don't recall Soto being as much as a top 20 guy anywhere I looked.

My understanding is they would have had to go over 3.5 for Vladito due to his relationship with Toronto.

The Royals top 4 2015 prospects were Vladito, Soto, Acuna, and Matias.

Scouts were on point. Suspect they probably had less set aside for international signings that year than normal... and paying the tax for blowing it out.

Rany wrote about it a while back


http://www.ranyontheroyals.com/2011/...f-age.html?m=1

Ah ok, I just heard a baseball america guy in the radio and he implied that they were 1-2 until Soto went up.

The article doesn't mention Acuna but says their top 4 that summer were Vlad, Soto, Matias and Jeison Guzman.

What that tells me is that if there are guys they are similarly certain about in IFA in the future, they should be willing to blow it out when the time is right.

$12 million in investment ($4 million - Vladito; $3 million - Soto; 2.2 million - Matias and 150k - Acuna, plus tax penalties) would have completely changed the course of the franchise.

Actually makes me feel a little better about their hesitance to spend big this year.

Hoz batted ball profile is almost identical to John jay. Hahhaha! One was a scrap heap player and one is 8-144. (Symborski calc it at 8-160 given the value of the options Hoz got last three years)


164 qualified hitters, 3 have Groundball ratios over 3:

1 Jay 3.69
2. Hoz 3.66
3. Desmond 3.17


The avg is only 1.25x for all qualified hitters. Meaning Hos is pounding the. All into the ground so often he's at three times the avg


He's always pounded too many worm burners but his career avg is 2.09. High for a 1B yes, but nothing like what's going on this year. Just awful

Not me. Unless we find some diamonds in the rough Matias is really our only hope in the last 4 years of IFA signings.

That said - a lot of scouting is about luck and shooting your shot when you have it.

You could look at it as 'man, the Royals were on those guys and I'll bet they'v learned lessons that ensure they get the next 'core 4' signing class....'

You could just as easily say that the Royals had it on their racket and miffed it. Buckner never got another grounder - sometimes you had your moment and then your moment is past. Given the highly competitive nature of the scouting process, I'd probably trend more closely to the latter than the former. It would be damn hard to really have that kind of opportunity again. And frankly I'd imagine that even the Royals didn't realize they had it at the time (afterall, knowing what they know now they'd have obviously pulled those triggers in a heartbeat).

But seriously, I wanna know what the hell 'couldn't get the money together in time' means. There has to be an interesting backstory there. Some intern get lost on his way to the bank? I mean we hear stories like that all the time where some prospect is seemingly going to sign with Team A, vanishes for 2 weeks and later we find out that at the last minute he just signed with Team B and went to one of their latin academies without anyone knowing. The Yankees had that happen with Torres and the Cubs, IIRC.

Weird shit happens in the span of 15 minutes with those Latin American signings. I'd be curious to know if there's more to that story.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-JBvfZTx-vs" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hey, remember how skeptical I was of Kelvin Gutierrez, the most highly-rated prospect of the three guys the Royals got for Kelvin Herrera? It's early, but since joining the Royals he's 8-for-52, dropping his seasonal line in Double-A to .252/.299/.358. He turns 24 next month.

That's from Rany, yea trade already not looking to great.

How's Herrera doing for the Nats?

That is 100 percent besides the point, if I sell you a car that has performed well and you get it and it doesn't perform that doesn't mean I should give it to you for free.

No, it's actually not.

If you only had 1 offer for that car and knew that after a test drive that offer would be withdrawn, you're gonna take that 1 offer while you know it's still standing.

Gutierrez is the 3rd most important part of that trade, 'rankings' be damned.

Perkins is the floor and Morel is the ceiling. Morel is almost certainly the guy they really wanted with Perkins being their insurance policy in case the teenage fireballer doesn't pan out (because they rarely do).

Gutierrez is organizational depth and likely to never amount to more than that. Prospect guides overvalue proximity to the big leagues when looking at rankings, especially when the team seeking a return is the Royals who have no real concerns about whether or not a guy's gonna make the show in the next 2 years; their timeline is 4-5 years down the road.

Haven’t gotten any scouting notes on Morel, but Perkins d and speed are just as good as hoped and he has a .400 OBP in around 100 plate appearances at Wilmington, which is a terrible home hitting park.

Still would have rather had one of the Nats higher ranked guys than those 3, though.

That is because you are a dumb ****.

Why are you such an asshole on here?

The latest rumor:

Looks like the Machado deal is done. Interest in Moose should pick up now. I thought it might be a big trade when I saw the Dodgers were trading 5 guys. That's a ton for a rental, but only one is a top 100 type guy. Dodgers have done a good job not giving up many of their real big star prospects.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The return to the Orioles for Manny Machado: OF Yusniel Diaz, 3B Rylan Bannon, RHP Dean Kremer, RHP Zach Pop and 2B Breyvic Valera. <br><br>Diaz is the only top-100 type. Kremer could be a dude. Bannon undersized 3B crushing in Cal League. Pop is a reliever, Valera 26-year-old in AAA.</p>&mdash; Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1019722975677992961?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 18, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Zach Pop, while not among the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Dodgers?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Dodgers</a>’ top 30 prospects per <a href="https://twitter.com/MLBPipeline?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MLBPipeline</a>.com, has a 1.04 ERA, 47 Ks and 13 BBs in 43 1/3 innings of relief at two levels in Class A this season.</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/1019723515237486593?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 18, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Yeah given what we've seen in recent years for rentals this is probably a decent trade. Although looking online I'm not sure Orioles fans are thrilled with it. With Diaz, he hasn't shown much power yet and he has speed but gets caught stealing a ton.

Is Kremer a chick?

Diaz did whack 2 HR's in the futures game maybe upped his stock a bit.

Baseball Pro has Diaz as a top 30 guy on its midseason list. I generally think that’s a better list than the more popular BA.

That’s a decent return for the Orioles. Light one prospect than if they’d traded him in the offseason,
But good for a rental.

Given that return, what do we get for moose?

Bucket of range balls and 2 medium anchovy pizzas

Probably will be as good as the haul we got last year for Strahm and Ruiz!

Indians making a move to try and improve their awful bullpen. Got Brad Hand and reliever Adam Cimber, but they gave up a ton to get him. Gave up their top prospect Francisco Mejia.

Interesting move in an AL that is so top heavy. Feels like Brad Hand had been in trade rumors for years now, they finally pulled the trigger.

Really nice courses have Pro V range balls. Maybe there is hope.

Wow.

Moose might bring back an A ball prospect.

Holy shit! Compared to the Herrera trade.

:rolleyes:

Why is it in the last several years everything Moore does just turns to shit or something else makes you go wtf?

Come on guys. You know better than this. Hand is under contract for 2 more years with a club option for the following year. They control him through the end of 2021.

It's not really rocket science, 3 month rentals don't get much, 3 year rentals do. I'm surprised they gave up Mejia but they get to add a really good piece to their pen while they have still have guys like Lindor, etc.

Still relief pitchers don't normally net that.

Cubs were linked to Hand and I'm glad they didn't pay up for him. He's been shit lately, giving up like 8 runs in his last 9 IP.

Those are 2 really good relievers though and both locked up for a good long time.

Chapman did, but they Cubs were desperate. I guess the Indians are too, but you have to wonder if this helps them get past the big three in the AL.

I'm surprised they did this, but I guess the argument could be made they're going to make the playoffs because of this terrible division, so at least give yourself a shot. Maybe they can get in a short series where you don't need as many relievers and use Miller and Hand to try and shut the other guys down.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Once Mejia trade is done, Padres will have 10 players among our Top 100 Prospects including the No. 2 prospect in the game. This is a &#39;12 Royals/&#39;15 Cubs type of farm system at this point.</p>&mdash; JJ Cooper (@jjcoop36) <a href="https://twitter.com/jjcoop36/status/1019970531238514688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Is JJ Cooper pretty well respected? I read on another forum that he was on the radio talking about our farm system. He apparently said the track record of prospects in A ball that strikeout as much as Seuly Matias is not good. He also had a pretty negative view overall on our system.

Yea I heard him...he basically said that the Royals are a long way away from being any good. I thought he was pretty fair for the most part.

He is. BA is much more conservative with younger, high upside prospects, so Cooper’s comments are not surprising.

Matias will be interesting. His K rate portends flameout, but his power production portends great success. Teenagers who hit 20 HR at full season ball, let alone the 30+ Matias is likely to reach, have a great success rate.

So if you buy into prospect rankings does this mean we are going to have San Diego/White Sox world series coming soon?

Am I wrong in thinking the best comp is Joey Gallo? Because if so, that's not a good thing.

Ozuna

Who, at age 19 in the SAL and NY Penn Leagues, hit .258/.306/.532 with 22 HR.

Great comparison. He also struck out 35 percent of the time.

Matias needs to work on his K rates, but there’s plenty to be excited about, and the raw power is undeniably a weapon.

I actually stole that comp from someone online somewhere, who mentioned the K rates

It wasn't me

Has anyone laughed at the Twinks dynamic duo of Buzton & Sano dropping the biggest fart-bomb in the history of the BA prospect rankings????


2011: Hosmer (8th), Moose (9th)
2015: Buxton (2nd), Sano (11th)



Year 4 our guys went to WS. Year 5 won WS
Year 4 for Twinks = losing record, hurt, demoted, both negative WAR

Seems like a lot better numbers than the .213 Matias is hitting. It's not just the strikeout numbers, he simply doesn't put the ball in play or get on base nearly enough. I believe he was hitting in the .230-.240 range around a month ago. He's sitting at around .115 for his last 10 games and probably pretty similar for the past month.

I'm also not that excited about someone with raw power and not much else. IMO that has little value in Kauffman stadium where a player has to be able to get on base consistently.

In case you missed it we are back into the era where everyone hits HR's no matter the stadium.

Sorry, one more quick question. Matias, Melendez, and Pratto seem to all have alot to work on and prove, although they all have shown promise of varying degrees. Do you promote them next year, or keep them at the same level until they prove that they can make consistent contact? All 3 seem to have horrible averages for their level.

That depends, if they are stubborn ****s like Hosmer and Moustakas have proven to be I'd be less likely to promote them quickly, we don't need more dudes who don't listen to the hitting coach cause hey my brother knows it man.

I understand but their #1 prospect?!?!?

Hosmer will make them champions.

He's a catcher and apparently Cleveland had decided he wasn't replacing the 2 guys on their roster because of his defense.

Man. This is coming like a tidal wave. Some of Lucas Giolito's old tweets surfaced today.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Some players have racist and offensive old tweets and then there&#39;s Lucas Giolito. �� <a href="https://t.co/tLhoLdNR1N">pic.twitter.com/tLhoLdNR1N</a></p>&mdash; Mike (@ChiSoxFanMike) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiSoxFanMike/status/1019703747268743169?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 18, 2018</a></blockquote>
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why do you need to be such a downer?

You guys keep sleeping on the other reliever the Indians received that they control even longer than Hand.

Usually hearing that a team gave up a top 100 prospect for 2 relievers makes people double take it just does.

Royals starts at 3:48

"This isn't just tanking. This is 4th dimensional tanking."

Maybe if you haven't been paying attention to recent trends in trades and playoff success.

Same reason I was hoping the Cubs would have traded Wade Davis to someone like the Nationals last year when it was 100% clear the Cubs weren't the best team in the NL. They supposedly had internal discussions about it but didn't have the balls to do it.

Better a downer than an asshole. I'm being a realist, not attacking others for their opinion like you.

That's kcchiefsus for you.

Bubba Starling is out with another ****ing injury, likely for the rest of the season. They need to move on, what a complete waste.

He didn't even get hurt playing....just another one of the bad draft picks in that time frame.

From Christian Colon through what Ashe Russell just a number of years of wasted picks.

They'll need his 40 spot soon. Time to cut bait.

Scott Frost should be happy.

ROFL


dumbass posts shuld be called out IMO, sorry it hurts you

The 2013 and 2014 picks led directly to two AL pennants and a World Series title.

I wouldn’t call those wasted.

Starling is the worst of all of them in hindsight... but that’s also with hindsight. It hasn’t worked for various reasons. But there was nothing wrong with the pick when made.


Could go either way. Depends on what they’re seeing from those guy eyewitness and on how they do next spring.

Matias absolutely needs to make more contact. He slumped over the past several weeks. A strong finish wouldn’t certainly answer some questions about him.

Moore was put in an impossible situation with Starling. Starling appears to not care enough to get better and I would be ok with him getting released immediately.

It has nothing to do with putting in work. He’s an incredibly hard worker.

He just can’t recognize pitches and can’t hit breaking stuff. All the try hard in the world isn’t any guarantee you’ll figure out making contact.

In actual prospect news, Brewer Hicklen is someone to watch. He was a multi sport guy at UAB. Big-time tools, nabbed in round 5 or so. They’ve moved him to Wilmington after a Strong first half at Lexington. Speed/power guy.

Well that stinks.. they wasted a premium pick on a guy that flat out couldn't hit and gave him a pile of cash to suck and not get better.

BTW Starling injured himself getting out of bed.

What an idiot. Like Zimmer, the sooner we never hear about him again the better.

Heard GMDM on 610 on the way home. He said he was embarrassed by the way the team played in the first half, and he feels bad for our fans.

Yeah, ya think???

It’s only going to get worse.

That’s the MLb draft. Success rate once you get out of the first 3 picks plummets sharply.

Starling was one of the five best athletes drafted in the past 20 years, just on raw skills.

But hitting that round ball with that round bat, square... that’s not just about athleticism and effort.

Yep, and I think this is his last year in the Royals system.

Give me a baseball player over an athlete 100% of the time.

Um...we won with crazy athletes in 13-15

Frank White say hello.