Well, certainly of the modern era, anyway. We're not qualified to judge the decades before they even had sacks as a stat.

But then again, Reggie White?

I don't know.

Yeah that's not true either. Aaron Donald is maybe the best overall DT, but even that is arguable.

The best pass rushing defensive tackle of all time is Jon Randle. From a defensive tackle pass rushing standpoint alone, Donald can't carry his jock.

Ooh, that's another good pick.

Was terrible against the run, but my God, couldn't pass block him to save your life. Would split every double team and his initial burst was not stoppable.

He was great.

But peak Reggie White was probably the most dominant defender of his era, no?

Bringing this back full circle, I'm literally on the "I'm just gonna trust Andy" bench.

If we start DJ it means Andy feels like he gives us the best chance.

If we start Joe, it means that Andy didn't see enough in these two weeks to make him feel like he could start DJ.

That said, the more I thought about this the more I did think that the BEST case is just "ok" play from Humphrey at LT, and then all pro play at LG.

So ya'll can't say I'm dogmatic.

But we can't even have sub par play out of Humprhies. It doesn't have to be pro bowl, but it can't be the shit we've dealt with all year and he can't have 3-4 plays like he had against denver.

Oh true. But Reggie slid in and out of end and tackle. Where Randle was a true d-tackle only.

If Mahomes trusts DJ enough to keep his eyes downfield and get the ball out then DJ will be the starting LT. I think that's the biggest key. I feel like he was more comfortable with Thuney in that spot than he has been all season. Not saying I want Thuney there, I'd rather have him at his all-pro position, but Mahomes seemed to play his best the last couple games.

Obviously the best case scenario involves Humphries.

I don't care.

We arent a 7 seed. We are the best team in football. Limiting our floor gets us to the Super Bowl.

It's certainly possible Humphries is the better choice, but I know, KNOW, Thuney at LT is easily good enough to win a Super Bowl.

Having DJ on the field at the same time only makes the whole process easier. We've been through enough this season. It's time to destroy souls and crush hearts.

Pretty much where I’m at. This isn’t a Grbac/Gannon thing and everyone who actually tracks snaps seems to believe that while we’ve been better with Thuney at OT he’s not great and the drop at LG is huge in both run and pass blocking. So if we stick with Thuney that’s fine and if Andy believes we can do what we need to do with Humphries then that works as well. I guess it’s also easier to move back to Thuney if there’s a problem with Humphries easier than trying it the other way around.

I just think that screws the flow of the game. At that point, if we literally have to switch, think about it.

It means we're already in a bad spot. Generally changing tackles like that doesn't pan out too well.

AGain, I'll defer to what Andy does over the two weeks but I can't say I'm comfortable with Humprhies starting after what we saw in Denver.

Also of note, if you go back and look at old footage of DJ, he clearly does not move like he used to.

He used to have a really quick get off and was really athletic. Like big time. Now he def has lost some of that and is way more stiff.

A prime DJ would make this team unreal good. Like unstoppable. But he just aint that now

Keysor on yesterday's OWG after reviewing the film:

"Caliendo was borderline unplayable against the Steelers." He worries if he could hold up against Heyward another game.

How often did Reggie White even play DT? I thought he was more of a DE.

He also mentioned that Humphries really only got beat twice. Once was Bonitto just taking a huge arc to get to Wentz and the other was the RB chip blocking the DE and knocked him into the inside gap.

I would imagine the Chiefs evaluated his mobility prior to signing him and know exactly what he is and is not capable of.

After all the hate and this is done will he get the love he deserves for saving the LT spot AND allowing our best O lineman to return to his rightful position to dominate once again?

This is no small matter - this could make or break a playoff run. And when Humphries pulls it off will he get his roses?

Well boys......

It looks like Andy said they will rotate.

This makes me "think" that the goal would eventually be to move DJ to LT perm but to continue to allow him to get more reps.

Sounds like....as a rarity...we were all party right.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Among the highlights: OT D.J. Humphries (Hamstring), QB Patrick Mahomes (Ankle), CB Trent McDuffie (Knee), Isiah Pacheco (Rib), CB Jaylen Watson (Ankle) and DL Chris Jones (calf) were all full participants. <a href="https://t.co/8K3B6tyHFq">https://t.co/8K3B6tyHFq</a></p>&mdash; Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) <a href="https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1879299434942804137?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 14, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Gamesmanship.

Thuney is the LT.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Reid says he will rotate Joe Thuney and D.J. Humphries will rotate in practice this week. Says he’s happy with how Thuney and Caliendo look but also happy with how Humphries played in Week 18.</p>&mdash; Matt Derrick (@mattderrick) <a href="https://twitter.com/mattderrick/status/1879226126981284019?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 14, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Sooo its Humphries, good

That would make think starting Humphries, but keeping Joe ready in case they gotta break glass.

LMAO hopium for D.J. Crew

You guys still buying your Cam Robinsons jerseys for next year?

Sam McDowell from the Star was just on 810 about 30 minutes ago. They all seem to think it is going to be Thuney at LT and Caliendo at LG, with Humphries as the 6th O-lineman. If Thuney or Taylor get nicked up, Humphries would rotate in. If someone on the interior gets injured, Thuney would move back into the LG spot with Humphries then coming in at LT. Caliendo would move to Center or RG if it is Creed or Smith that gets injured.

Don't shoot me. Just what McDowell seemed to think is going to happen.

MY hunch says this is what will happen.

I'm starting to think this is the plan. A bit spooky, but I have to trust the coaches on this.

Sam McDowell? 810? Why should I put any stock into what they say?

Yeah, wtf does Sam McDowell or any of the idiots at 810 know?None of them are being fed any info, so they're just guessing like everyone else. 810 has a pretty shit relationship with the front office, too.

Tim Grunhard was on today comparing the Grbac vs Gannon situation to this.. Said the players knew the best chance was with Rich but foolishly trusted Marty and the rest is history.. Tim is firmly in the Thuney camp and feels the players are too.
And Bob Fescoe on 610 is worse than anyone on 810.. That guy is completely clueless..

Why not both?

Humphries
Thuney
Caliendo
Humphrey
Smith
Taylor

6 OL sets all game.

I continue to be frustrated at the framing of this as Thuney vs. Humphries. Caliendo is the concern here, not Thuney.

Why not? As long as we don’t turn the ball over we’ll win

Why? We’ve trotted out piles of shit at guard before and been fine.

The Gannon/Grbac situation was nothing like this.

I'm not in either camp. I just want to win Saturday.

If Andy thinks it's Thuney and Caliendo, then let's roll!

If Andy thinks it's Humphries and Thuney, then let's roll!

Probably because he’s a credentialed reporter who actually spends time watching practice and talking with the team.

This is precisely right.

Humphries being even average allows for a better running game and more options in the pass game. Thuney at tackle means quick passing game and a less efficient run game. Not to mention Houston has gone up against Thuney at tackle. THey'll have some good answers.

It's not Thuney vs Humphries, it is Caliendo vs Humphries.

Do you not think Thuney is worth the $27m cap hit this year? If guards don't matter, I don't know why he's on the team.

The answer, of course, is that guards matter. I don't understand why everyone is acting like they don't.

Here are all the season stats. They don't really support your rushing game suffering theory.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...s/kan/2024.htm

Let’s play 12 guys on offense.

This is all rigged for the Chiefs to win anyway. **** the rules.

WEll there goes the "we can't run the ball" theory

Pssstt.

Because he was the super secret weapon at LT all along...

If that's the case, I sure wish we'd stop wasting draft picks on tackles.

We draft tackles to play guard, duh.

Sure sounds like it's going to be Thuney, as expected.

I’m saying having adequate LT play is much more important than good guard play.

If that were t the case Andy wouldn’t start Thuney at LT for 3 games and wouldn’t be debating on starting him for the Divisional

I think no matter which way the Chiefs go with LT that they get the win over the Texans. I like the discussion though so keep it up!

So, we signed a pro bowl LT. He’s had two months to learn the play book. Had an injury which set him back. Got Reps during the Broncos game. He’s now had two weeks to practice with the team.

You really think Andy is not going to play this guy?

Patrick won't play him.

He was a Pro Bowler 3 years ago as an alternate. There are multiple other players from that Pro Bowl who aren't even on an NFL roster. Let's not pretend we have some guy who is clearly playing at a Pro Bowl level at our disposal at the moment. The variance around his ability at this stage is extremely high. Hence, the debate as to what Reid does here is pretty reasonable.

It's his best shot.

And he's tended to be good until after half time. If he starts to look like his play is slipping they can always slide Thuney outside and plug in a fresh b/u at guard.

You know what I get from this thread?

You see what you want to see, and every blurb confirms it, no matter how non-committal.

Well said, the Pro Bowl argument is a bizarre one to me. Could be great, sure, but obviously hadn't shown it yet

Guessing that it would be a conversation with Big Red, "the Decider", but yea, sure Pat has something to say.

ROFL

The debate WOULD be reasonable if the debaters were but as Meck said, people are dug in at this point and any news, no matter how ambiguous, just confirms their mindset.

The only reason Thuney played LT, and the only reason he would continue going forward, is that they have no other choice.

Playing Thuney at LT is an absolute last resort.

Neither choice should be a surprise or anything people bitch about before the game starts.

If they think there’s an upside to Hump that they have to explore, cool. I also firmly understand if they run it back with the same exact line that played really well against this pass rush not even a month ago.

Andy likes stability on that line and given that we’ve already seen this exact group handle what Houston presents…. You just can’t be mad if they go down that road again.

This.

Put the best players on the field. If that's DJ, great. If it's Thuney, great.

The real meat of the argument here is emotional. Lots of people are scared of starting DJ. What if he whiffs? What if Pat gets hurt? It's the same crap we've heard all year.

Its interesting. I wouldn't have expected people to get entrenched in this sort of argument, it must hit at a core fundamental level of your brain whether you value risk mitigation vs higher potential.

It absolutely does. You nailed it.

Are you okay if Morris starts at LT and Thuney at guard?

Humans are a very flawed species. We're the most intelligent beings on Earth, and also we're complete morons.

Why would I be when they aren't even considering it? It's between Thuney and Humphries. Why try to change the subject?

Do you realize how many of those yards Mahomes got the last few games he played in?

Not really how many? I remember him running pretty good then the ankle thing

My concern is that they're going to look back at the tape and see how vulnerable Caliendo was and just focus on him all game. And if they have Al Shaair in the backfield, it'll make it a little tougher to get the ball out quick.

For as much as people claim that guards aren't important in pass protection, 1) Houston was abusing the Chargers' guards all game last week, and 2) do people not realize that Chris Jones has earned a gold jacket largely by picking on weak guards (and centers)?

That interior Chargers line gave up 4 sacks and multiple hurries.

I can hear that. But then the counter would be the same as what if Humphries gets destroyed by Anderson Jr.?

You can always yank Caliendo or Humphries if you have to.

Keysor says Caliendo was horrible against Pittsburgh. Hope he's right because if so, it means it didn't matter whatsoever. That was our best offensive game all year.

They changed the offense to accommodate Thuney and Caliendo. Is that sustainable against Buffalo or Baltimore? The more variable the offense can be, the better.

I mean what if Humphries DOESNT get destroyed? What if he's better than Thuney and we can run the full offense?

It's all risk vs. reward. Some of us value the reward more than we fear the risk. Some of us don't.

That's all true. If I had to bet though, that offensive change which was forced by the OL shuffle + Mahomes' injury is exactly what they need to continue doing.

Are they as equipped to come back from major deficits as they were in prior seasons with this approach? No, but I think they can play to their defense in a way they also couldn't back then either.

Against Buffalo or Baltimore, we need to sustain drives, we have to frustrate their pass rush as Mahomes gets the ball out of his hands quickly and tires them out.

It was actually a split between Mahomes and Worthy.

2 games with over 100 yards rushing with Thuney and Caliendo - (3 game span)

Cleveland - Worthy had 30 yards on sweeps Mahomes had 14 on scrambles. 44 of 132 yards not by running backs.

Houston -Mohomes had 33 yards, (2nd most rushing yards on team) Worthy had 10.

Once again 44 yards out of 124 not by running backs.

Steelers - 69 total rushing yards as a team with Pat and Worthy accounting for 22 of them.

So the idea we run the ball just fine with Thuney/Caliendo is absolutely misleading.

You can't just spam that stuff for an entire game though. You need to be able to throw a wrinkle in here or there.

I don't think the quick passing game will work against Buffalo or Baltimore like it did against the Texans or Pittsburgh.

Mahomes said at his presser yesterday, 'I've gotta get the ball out of my hands and into these playmakers' hands' ....

Could tell it's something he's really conscious of and I think it will continue to work in our favor now that we have all the main threats available.

Not all quick passes, but like the TD throw to Watson in PIT. That was a ****ing seed that no pass rusher was going to get to 15 in time to prevent.

Those are the throws he can and will make that are different than what we were seeing before Houston. There were a lot of quick throws sure but I also believe Mahomes was just being more intentional about making the intermediate throws quickly as well. Every Hollywood target so far has kinda been that way. Lot of 10-20 yard route patterns with the ball out fast.

If they have a LT that can play, they're gonna play the LT at......LT. They don't want to move their all pro HOF LG to LT if they don't have to.

The Bills and Ravens generate pressure far differently than the Texans or Steelers. Sure, quick passing has it's benefits. But it can't be the only thing you're capable of.

My concern is that, as bad as Mahomes has sometimes looked with inadequate tackle play, we have seen time and again over his career that his real kryptonite is pressure up the middle. If it's instant, it's over. Not necessarily true if the tackle loses quickly.

My hope is that Humphries can be the answer and we play our best linemen in the interior.