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Extra Point 01-12-2007 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefPote
If we miss on Ginn in the first, we should pick Anthony Gonzales WR in the second round. Write it down, you heard it here first, the steal of the draft.

Good point!

suds79 01-13-2007 11:32 PM

My list as of right now (realistically). This is subject to change.

1 - Dwayne Jarrett
2 - Levi Brown
3 - Ted Ginn Jr

I like Alen Branch the DT from Michigan but I hear he sometimes takes plays off and after seeing Tamba Hali & Jaren Allen, I've realized that D-linemen have to have a high motor.

I like those type of guys.

So pass on Branch.

FYI - Calvin Johnson is the best WR I've seen in college in a long time. He reminds me of Andre Johnson when he was at Miami... Probably not quite as fast though. I guess we'll see at the combine.

FreeSafety36 01-18-2007 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs
The Bills need a left tackle as bad as we do. Which actually pisses me off more.

I'm a Bills fan (here because I'm the mock GM for the Chiefs on our board mock draft), and one of the things the Bills DON'T need is a LT. I don't know why Scott Wright thinks we do, but we don't. Jason Peters has played tremendously well at LT, and was signed to a long extension last off-season. Our biggest need on the line is at guard. Mike Gandy, our starting LG is a FA, and every other guard on our roster sucks, aside from Chris Villarial who can't stay healthy for 4 consecutive games.

At this point, Patrick Willis is easily the consensus top pick for us (on our board anyway) with a lot of other guys liking Okoye. Most of the fans, including myself, aren't looking for London Fletcher back, and Takeo Spikes may be gone as well.

As for us not taking a DT in the first again, I wouldn't be so sure. We have 2 NTs on the roster. One is last year's 5th round pick Kyle Williams (who played very well this year), the other is FA Tim Anderson (who didn't). Anderson could really be upgraded, and last year's 1st round DT John McCargo is a 3 technique, not a nose. Also consider we're bad vs. the run, NT is certainly a top consideration. According to the editor of 'Bills Digest', NT is our number one priority going into the off-season. Personally I would like to see a FA brought in and open up our options in the draft. There are some good DTs that could hit the market like Terdell Sands (my fave), Robaire Smith and Mike Myers. Defensive tackles can make or break the Tampa 2 (our defense). It's all about the 'X'. The 'X' is your DTs, your MLB and your safeties. We got our safeties last year with Whitner and Ko Simpson. We have our 3 tech tackles with McCargo and Larry Tripplett. MLB is up in the air, and Kyle Williams is one half of our NT rotation.

But you can rest assured, the Bills are not in the market for a LT. Possibly a RT, where we had a rookie 7th round pick playing, but he showed a lot of potential and after our bye when Peters was moved from RT to LT and Pennington took over RT, our offense played about 200% better. Our glaring weakness on the line was at RG, where Duke Preston can't block a sled dummy.

htismaqe 01-18-2007 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeSafety36
I'm a Bills fan (here because I'm the mock GM for the Chiefs on our board mock draft), and one of the things the Bills DON'T need is a LT. I don't know why Scott Wright thinks we do, but we don't. Jason Peters has played tremendously well at LT, and was signed to a long extension last off-season. Our biggest need on the line is at guard. Mike Gandy, our starting LG is a FA, and every other guard on our roster sucks, aside from Chris Villarial who can't stay healthy for 4 consecutive games.

At this point, Patrick Willis is easily the consensus top pick for us (on our board anyway) with a lot of other guys liking Okoye. Most of the fans, including myself, aren't looking for London Fletcher back, and Takeo Spikes may be gone as well.

As for us not taking a DT in the first again, I wouldn't be so sure. We have 2 NTs on the roster. One is last year's 5th round pick Kyle Williams (who played very well this year), the other is FA Tim Anderson (who didn't). Anderson could really be upgraded, and last year's 1st round DT John McCargo is a 3 technique, not a nose. Also consider we're bad vs. the run, NT is certainly a top consideration. According to the editor of 'Bills Digest', NT is our number one priority going into the off-season. Personally I would like to see a FA brought in and open up our options in the draft. There are some good DTs that could hit the market like Terdell Sands (my fave), Robaire Smith and Mike Myers. Defensive tackles can make or break the Tampa 2 (our defense). It's all about the 'X'. The 'X' is your DTs, your MLB and your safeties. We got our safeties last year with Whitner and Ko Simpson. We have our 3 tech tackles with McCargo and Larry Tripplett. MLB is up in the air, and Kyle Williams is one half of our NT rotation.

But you can rest assured, the Bills are not in the market for a LT. Possibly a RT, where we had a rookie 7th round pick playing, but he showed a lot of potential and after our bye when Peters was moved from RT to LT and Pennington took over RT, our offense played about 200% better. Our glaring weakness on the line was at RG, where Duke Preston can't block a sled dummy.

Okoye will most likely be a 3T in the NFL, not a NT.

And I'm not sure where you got the idea Sands, Smith, and Myers are good DTs...

FreeSafety36 01-18-2007 12:21 PM

Okoye a 3 technique? Highly doubtful. He's being looked at as a possible nose in even a 3-4 scheme. He's better vs. the run than he is rushing the passer. Very stout at the point of attack with below average timed speed. Not exactly the definition of a 3 technique tackle.

Check out what Scott Wright says about him. He has good player rankings, but his mocks suck.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sco...mobiokoye.html

Now, where I get the idea that Sands, Myers and Smith are good DTs. Well, for one, I've watched them play. I never said they were probowlers, I said they were good DTs, and they are. Sands recorded 41 tackles and a sack while not even starting last season. Robaire Smith had 44 tackles and 1/2 a sack, and Michael Myers had 57 tackles and 2 sacks. For DTs, those are pretty strong numbers.

Myers and Smith may not be good fits at NT in the Tampa 2, and then again they could. Tim Anderson, who played nose for us this past season was a converted 3 tech. Not out of the question. Sands will be probably the most sought after DT in FA this year unless the Dolphins don't re-sign Vonnie Holliday.

htismaqe 01-18-2007 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeSafety36
Okoye a 3 technique? Highly doubtful. He's being looked at as a possible nose in even a 3-4 scheme. He's better vs. the run than he is rushing the passer. Very stout at the point of attack with below average timed speed. Not exactly the definition of a 3 technique tackle.

He's going to half to learn the 3T. While he was stout at the point of attack at Louisville, he played against inferior competition. He's gonna have a tough time holding up as a 3-4 NT in the NFL unless he's gonna add serious weight. More than a few 3-4 teams are going to look at him as a defensive end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeSafety36
Now, where I get the idea that Sands, Myers and Smith are good DTs. Well, for one, I've watched them play. I never said they were probowlers, I said they were good DTs, and they are. Sands recorded 41 tackles and a sack while not even starting last season. Robaire Smith had 44 tackles and 1/2 a sack, and Michael Myers had 57 tackles and 2 sacks. For DTs, those are pretty strong numbers.

Those are Ron Edwards numbers. I've seen all 3 of them play many times - one was a former Chief, the other a Bronco, and Robaire Smith was a guy I told everybody to forget about 2 years ago when he was available the 1st time.

All 3 are stop-gap players, AT BEST. And combine that with the fact that free agent DT's almost NEVER make an impact for their new team.

FreeSafety36 01-18-2007 12:43 PM

Miami, West Virginia, Rutgers and Wake Forest are inferior competition? Not in my mind. Even in a down yuear, the U is still the U, and the rest finished in the top 10.

You don't need to tell me about Ron Edwards, you do know he was a Bill before coming to KC, right? Tom Don'tknowhow told us fans that we didn't need Pat Williams when he wouldn't match the Vikihngs offer, because we had Ron Edwards. 1 year as a starter, and Edwards was allowed to walk. Edwards is a good back-up and that's it. He's a back-up that has been tried to be turned into a starter, and he doesn't have it.

Myers and Smith, maybe stop-gaps. Sands, however, is a young player coming into his own. Maybe he'll make it over the hump, maybe not. But that's pretty much any player.

What free agent DTs are you talking about? Ryan Pickett had a great year for the Packers. Pat Williams is doing very well in Minnesota. I already mentioned Vonnie Holliday with the Dolphins, add his team mate Keith Traylor to the list as well. Warren Sapp has done a fine job since going to Oakland. What exact free agent DTs are we talking about that almost never have an impact?

htismaqe 01-18-2007 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeSafety36
Miami, West Virginia, Rutgers and Wake Forest are inferior competition? Not in my mind. Even in a down yuear, the U is still the U, and the rest finished in the top 10.

You don't need to tell me about Ron Edwards, you do know he was a Bill before coming to KC, right? Tom Don'tknowhow told us fans that we didn't need Pat Williams when he wouldn't match the Vikihngs offer, because we had Ron Edwards. 1 year as a starter, and Edwards was allowed to walk. Edwards is a good back-up and that's it. He's a back-up that has been tried to be turned into a starter, and he doesn't have it.

Myers and Smith, maybe stop-gaps. Sands, however, is a young player coming into his own. Maybe he'll make it over the hump, maybe not. But that's pretty much any player.

What free agent DTs are you talking about? Ryan Pickett had a great year for the Packers. Pat Williams is doing very well in Minnesota. I already mentioned Vonnie Holliday with the Dolphins, add his team mate Keith Traylor to the list as well. Warren Sapp has done a fine job since going to Oakland. What exact free agent DTs are we talking about that almost never have an impact?

WVU, Rutgers, and Wake. How many top offensive linemen do you see coming out in the draft that came out of those schoools? He hasn't played against top-flight 350-pound offensive linemen like the guys in the Big 10, Big 12, and SEC do every Saturday.

Amazing that you're 100% correct about Edwards but can't tell that Myers, Smith, and Sands are the SAME PLAYER. FYI, Sands is entering his 7th season and will be 28 years old. Than's not young.

Ryan Pickett had a great year. Williams had an okay year, but certainly not up to his standards. Vonnie Holliday isn't a full-time tackle. Warren Sapp has done a fine job playing outside the tackle. He's also no longer a true DT.

FreeSafety36 01-18-2007 01:07 PM

No blue chip linemen coming out of those 3 schools, I'll agree on that. But it's not like they were playing Boise State's schedule either. I don't see Okoye as the kind of guy who dominates weak competition and can't hold up against better players. But, he's in the draft, and like every other guy out there he could bust.

Yeah, Sands will be 28, but he only has 4 seasons as an active player. Doesn't have the same miles on his body that other 28-year-olds have in the national football league. I still consider him young. Maybe he is another Ron Edwards, but in the Tampa 2, I wouldn't be so much against a Ron Edwards type player, because the DTs are in a rotation. Edwards done a pretty good job spelling Pat Williams for a couple plays, after that he started taking plays off.

I'm not trying to put these guys in the same breath with guys like John Henderson, but all 3 are better than Tim Anderson. To me, that's what FA is about, upgrading your positions with players better than what you have. IMO, you build through the draft and supplement through free agency.

htismaqe 01-18-2007 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeSafety36
No blue chip linemen coming out of those 3 schools, I'll agree on that. But it's not like they were playing Boise State's schedule either. I don't see Okoye as the kind of guy who dominates weak competition and can't hold up against better players. But, he's in the draft, and like every other guy out there he could bust.

Yeah, Sands will be 28, but he only has 4 seasons as an active player. Doesn't have the same miles on his body that other 28-year-olds have in the national football league. I still consider him young. Maybe he is another Ron Edwards, but in the Tampa 2, I wouldn't be so much against a Ron Edwards type player, because the DTs are in a rotation. Edwards done a pretty good job spelling Pat Williams for a couple plays, after that he started taking plays off.

I'm not trying to put these guys in the same breath with guys like John Henderson, but all 3 are better than Tim Anderson. To me, that's what FA is about, upgrading your positions with players better than what you have. IMO, you build through the draft and supplement through free agency.

Actually, Sands has been in the league, on and off, for 6 years, and IIRC he's had some serious medical issues with his feet.

FreeSafety36 01-18-2007 01:15 PM

Yeah, i know he's been in the league for 6 years. However, in the first 2, he didn't play. 0 games.

htismaqe 01-18-2007 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeSafety36
Yeah, i know he's been in the league for 6 years. However, in the first 2, he didn't play. 0 games.

He still practiced when he was with the Chiefs...he wasn't sitting around taking no hits. And like I said, I don't remember specifics, but he had some kind of medical issue with his feet...

FreeSafety36 01-18-2007 01:26 PM

taking hits in practice is nothing like a 16-game season.

htismaqe 01-18-2007 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeSafety36
taking hits in practice is nothing like a 16-game season.

It still creates wear and tear. Almost half of all injuries in the NFL occur during practice.

htismaqe 01-18-2007 01:34 PM

Regardless, that's not the point.

Terdell Sands may have extra years left due to lack of wear, but he's NOT an ascending player. Even if he was, what's his ceiling? He's QUITE unspectacular....


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