So....in your mind a System QB is any QB not named what -- Montana, Elway, Unitas, Favre, Marino and Manning (or Brady), or some combination like that.

What's the point of having a specific phrase that means "not among the top 5 NFL QBs in history"?

And, to push it further -- in your mind Michael Vick was a "system QB" I guess.

I don't get it.

Precisely, 98% being successful in the NFL is being in right situation at the right time, and John Elway for top 5 picks concerning talent is the benchmark and anything less is asking for trouble.

You may also add any QB who's played at Texas Tech.

Brock is on target.

People use "system QB" to mean that a QB's talent can only be exploited by one particular system.

Great QBs can generally be imagined to succeed in any system, or when systems break down.

And anyone who thinks that Montana could only thrive in a west coast system....well, ditto brock again: "horse shit"

that's as dumb as gochiefs claiming that Chris Carter couldn't separate from CBs....

back to the point of the arguement unless one is talking about an all-world talent like John Elway which it doesn't matter what situation he's in then I'd pass on the guy who has to be in the right situation and right system. Ryan can be good, but he'll need help

So you feel that Montana would have taken the same Denver teams to the SB that Elway did?

yes, Montana would have still been a great QB if he played for Shanahan instead of Walsh...

anyone who doesn't think so is embarrassingly dumb...

no .... but they wouldn't of built the team the same if it was montana instead of Elway.


just like most other nfl players need to be used in schemes that fit their talents.

Kliff Kingsberry put up huge numbers in Texas Tech's System....couldn't hack it.

Spread the defense out with 4-5 quick wrs and throw slants and fly patterns.....big numbers, but they often can't make the nfl throws.....the 15 yard outs across the field etc.

Probably would have won more.

I don't think of a system QB as worthless outside of a system, like others... I think of it when looking at stats and wondering "is this guy that good or could anyone throw for 4000 yards in that offense?"

I think it's possible to have a system QB in the NFL, it's just that the systems are so close to being the same, NFL teams don't waste the time on them unless they are a Vick-like athlete or they're desperate.

Enter Kurt Warner (uh, the desperate part). He would have been a backup for a while and mediocre at best in the NFL if the Rams weren't desperate and he didn't happen to step into Martz's system. It wasn't the quarterback, it was the system. Anyone can throw for 4000 yards in the system, and Kurt Warner hasn't done a whole lot outside of it.

I would agree somewhat...Montana succeeded with the Chiefs despite Marty. That's the sign of a great QB.

Green was always said to be a system QB...not so great with Wash, but good with KC. A system could also be a QB behind a great line and helped by a super RB.

ROFLROFLROFLROFL
Stop dude,you're killing me. Little Joe wouldn't have lasted 2 seasons.
You either have no idea what the Elway years pre-Shanny looked like or are just being silly.

I wasn't talking about the Shanny teams. Are you familiar with the teams Elway carried to the SB pre-Shanny?

John Elway brought an unmatched ability to improvise and carried some pretty mediocre teams to the SB.

He also overcame handcuffing by Dan Reeves.

Still, Montana brought that leadership and quiet confidence.

I don't know that he could have taken the Donks to those 3 pre-rat SBs, but I wouldn't bet against him.