Well Bowlen did Pay Elway, at one time wasn't Elway the highest paid QB in the NFL? Also, when Elway and Reeves finally could not stand working together any longer (and Reeves drafted Tommy Maddox) Bowlen stuck with Elway and fired Reeves.

I think Bowlen was really instrumental in Elway staying with the Broncos because Reeves was talking about trading Elway to the Giants.

So much changes over a 30-year span that you can't attribute any impact to one player. If I took the 15 years or whatever that Elway played and the 15 years before him, I can't really compare those eras. Too much changed. It's better to go with a shorter pre-/post-period where there was a more similar core of players.

However, if you take the entire history of Elway's tenure with the team, they won 63 percent of those games. In the five years before Elway showed up, they won 64 percent. It's pretty clear that Elway didn't turn the franchise around, but rather that the five previous years turned the franchise around.

Wow, I just don't know what to say then. They went 2-7 the year before he came, and you act like he stepped into the 49ers situation like Steve Young after Montana. Guess I'll just agree to disagree on this one.

An owner decided to pay a perennial Pro Bowl QB, one of the elite players in the league, and kept him over a head coach? I can't tell you how gutsy and impressive that is. Goes totally against the grain.

I think it was a few different factors that permantly change the Broncos into a winning franchise--Elway, an owner who wanted to win and spent the money to win (Pat Bowlen) and a good coach who provided stability and a formula for winning (Dan Reeves). Before these 3 guys came along, yes, the Broncos did have some good success in the mid to late 1970s but it was these guys who sustained the success into and through the 1980s.

Bowlen also hired Mike Shanahan at the right time and that paid off in spades.

Bowlen had to choose between Elway and Reeves and yes, Reeves had a lot of pull within the franchise. Also, it was Bowlen who flat out nixed the trade to the NYG for Elway.

Bowlen sure didn't protect Jay Cutler like he did Elway.

So you're arguing that a 9-game strike year should take precedence over the 58 games that preceded it? Were you around for the strike years? They were chaos. They shouldn't have even had Super Bowls in those years. People throw the strike years out of many discussions, and certainly don't give them precedence.

You can toss the strike year argument from this, it doesn't have any relevance really to any of the main points. According to Pro-football Reference, John Elway has a +30 "WAR" value. 2nd QB all time to Peyton Maggot.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=1868


That implies he was the difference between 8 wins and 10 wins. This matches up perfectly to what Denver did since he left & also what Dan Reeves did without him. Elway was no regular player like you suggest, getting into a nice situation. Numerically, he created it for 15 years there.

Heh. I meant you love to hate him; it clearly brings you joy.

KU thread

/Pajama Horse

I never hated Elway at all, he was fun to watch. He went big or he went home, he had spectacular successes and crushing failures. Kinda like Favre in a way. Didn't skate his entire career winning with great teams like Brady or Montana. I can't remember him ever taunting or acting like a bitch when he did lose. And the 1998 playoff game, he was at the end of his career and didn't do much to beat us anyway.

We all have our hobbies.

those damn socks

Why don't you marry him, then? Why don't you marry John Elway? John Elway is marrying Prison Bitch, everyone.

(I only did that for the last sentence.)