"shady" is the stupidest nickname ever, why do people use it like it's his first name?

If Pioli never took over, we'd have:
QB - a shit QB
RB - Charles, Jackie Battle
TE - Tony Gonzalez (pre-Herm)
WR - Dwayne Bowe / Shit #2 and #3 receivers
LT - Branden Albert
RT - Barry Richardson
LG - Brian Waters
C - Wade Smith
RG - Brian de la Puente

-------

Defense
DE - Tamba Hali
DE - Jason Babin / Gilberry (had a shot at Orakpo in the next draft)
DTs - Turk, Tank, Ron Edwards, Alfonso Boone
CB - Carr / Flowers
Safeties - Pollard / Page
LBs - DJ, shit, Donnie Edwards
K - Connor Barth
P - Colquitt
LS - Gafford

Almost all of these players were brought in during the Herm era. More importantly, most of these guys only got playing time because Herm demanded to Peterson to stop bringing in shitty band-aid veterans.

And he did all of this while completely unable to spend any money because of the disastrous cap situation we had. Can you imagine if we had this roster, actual free agent $'s to spend, and a QB?

Look at the 2008 Chiefs I posted. That was a shit team with shit depth. It wasn't a good team. It wasn't a good situation.

Yes, Pioli is the worst possible solution, but Herm was a ****ing joke. He made the Chiefs a joke for the first time in my life. And he did so while telling everyone how smart he was. **** him.

Agree. Probably the same reason there are so many gay nicknames and how nearly every player has some reeruned WWE signature celebratory move they do after they make routine plays, that the camera zooms in on instantaneously after the play.

Herm made me realize that there are actually better things to do on a Sunday afternoon than watching football...


don't know whether to curse him or thank him...

Pretty liberal use of the bold.
Wade Smith, De la Puenta, Barth, Gafford were legit starters
Page, Turk, Tank, Studebaker, Battle, Richardson played decently long NFL careers after they left KC
Ron Edwards, McGraw, and Alfonso Boone were adequate at the time
17 players acquired through the draft or free agency with about 10 of them being legit NFL starters in just 3 years? How unreasonable are your expectations?

The other thing you fail to mention is... how many of Vermeil's guys were still legit NFL players in 2008? DJ, Waters, Gonzalez, Tony Richardson, Surtain. FIVE. DJ was the only guy in that entire group who was under 30. So yeah, when you have to build a 53 man roster and you literally have 1 young guy and 4 old farts to work with and $0 to spend, how reasonable is it for any coach to turn that roster over in 3 years?

Herm took a huge risk by tearing the team completely apart. He cleaned up a really horrendous cap situation. He forced out a bunch of veterans and forced a much needed youth movement. And he did both of those things completely over Carl Peterson's head.

He inherited an unbelievable mess and set up an incredible situation or Pioli. So yeah... curse him for not being a good coach, but he deserves a ton of thanks for really bold and smart roster moves.

I forgot all about Battle he was nice

Carl Peterson and Dick Vermeil left this team in a shithole.

They just didn't start digging out of that shithole until John Dorsey showed up.

When Pioli started, the team had a really good nucleus of young players, a really clean cap situation, and a #3 pick in the draft. If Dorsey took over in 2009, he could have dug the Chiefs pretty far out of the hole in one season.

My expectation is that you should have about 45 guys that are legit players. Dorsey can do it, why can't Herm? There are a shitton of guys getting jobs after chiefs now than back then.

And 5 guys? are you kidding me?

Colquitt is still with the Chiefs
LJ played until 2011. Probably would have played longer if your BFF wouldn't have killed him.
Jared Allen is still in the league
Jordan Black played until 2012
Weigman played until 2011
Chris Griffin played until 2010
Keyeron Fox played until 2012
Trent Green played until 2008
Todd Collins played until 2010
Boomer Grigsby played until 2008
Dante Hall played until 2008
Sammy Knight played until 2008.
Kawika Mitchell played until 2010 (and started and won a Super Bowl)
Benny Sapp played until 2011
Sims played until 2010
Gary Still played until 2008
Tynes played until 2012 (and won a Super Bowl) before he almost died
Jimmy Wilkerson played until 2011
Kris Wilson played until 2011


Kendrell Bell made it until 2007
Jason Dunn hung around until 2007
Eric Hicks played until 2007
Greg Wesley played until 2007

According to your metrics, Herm inherited 20 serviceable players and left with 17 (your number not mine)

Dude was shit. At everything. Just because Charles, Hali, Albert came around under his term doesn't mean he wasn't shit.

DV was shit and he gave us DJ and Colquitt.

Pioli was shit and we got Berry and Houston.

A couple good picks doesn't dismiss leaving the team a total shitfest.

EDIT: Link

You can click on a player and view their career.

And since you made me look, here are your guys that are "good"


LINK

Wade Smith Played until 2014. Legit.
De La Puenta I didn't find him on the roster on the link.
Barth Still in the league but was horrid. Nobody whined about him leaving
Gafford Still in the league. Legit.
Page played until 2011, but never stayed more than a year, marginal at best
Turk played until 2012. I had no idea. I thought he was done after he went back to Goonther. Legit.
Tank Out of the league after 2009. NOT legit
Studebaker played until 2014, probably legit player
Battle Legit.
Richardson played until 2013, probably a legit player
Ron Edwards Played until 2012, but played 0 snaps in 2011. Not sure he's all world.
McGraw played until 2011, barely snuck in there.
Boone Played until 2010, didn't make the 3 year window that you held DVs guys to.

Take out De Le Puenta, Barth, Tank, and Boone. that leaves Team Herm with 13 guys and Team DV with 20 dudes that played 3 years.

And DV was the one that sold out to win.

Your hate for Herm is blinding you to the fact that Herm inherited one of the worst team situations in our modern era. Almost every player was over 30, we were in salary cap hell for several years, and we had 3 players under 30 worth a damn. It wasn't just bad. It was a disaster. Stop playing it off as anything better than that.

We ended the Herm era with an almost immaculate cap. A core of 10 or so players well under 30 who ended up having excellent NFL careers. And by the way, even building almost entirely from scratch, I think you're forgetting that we made the playoffs in 2010 off of pretty much Herm's roster behind a terrible QB (minus Waters, Gonzalez, De la Puente, Page, Wade Smith, Babin, all of whom were upgrades over the players Pioli replaced them with). Had Dorsey taken over instead of Pioli... with one solid QB pickup, a good 2009 draft, and an effective spending of a lot of money we had in 2009... Not to mention not forcing a 3-4 when we had 4-3 personnel... we would have been a really good team.

Hey man. The three year thing was your deal, not mine. I'm not saying it wasn't a cluster **** when DV left.

What you are missing is that Herms team was just as horrible. Give a guy 3 years that's 21 base picks. Especially if they're high ones like Herm got because he was ****ing horrible you should be able to pull a nucleus of decent talent. But 10 guys don't win. The 2 wins are evidence of that. If this team wasn't a total ****ing tire fire it would have won far more than 2 games. I bet you can go through about any team and find a few guys that you can build around. But it takes something better than awful at every position on the field and Herm wasn't able to get that done in 3 years. Dorsey did it in 1. He wrecked the cap to do it but he put Together some guys that can play.

Herm drafted a few stars. So did Pioli and nobody besides the local Pats trash is clamoring to his defense. Herm was a ****ing disaster. His team had less dudes that went on to play 3 years than DV did by your own count. And DV sold out to win. I'm not blinded by Herm hate anymore than you are blinded because you are enamored with a few stars he stumbled into despite being remarkably incompetent at every single aspect of his job as head coach. That is all despite the fact that crediting Herm with the acquisition of all those guys is beyond a stretch.