ChiefsPlanet

ChiefsPlanet (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/index.php)
-   Nzoner's Game Room (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=1)
-   -   Football Teos made up gf (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=268978)

Thig Lyfe 01-16-2013 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Janus (Post 9326539)
"Win won for the Gipper"= a fraud.

Te'o= a fraud.

Notre Lame, as exposed by Alabama in the BCS Championship game= a fraud.

Fitting end to Notre Lame's season.

win won

chefs fan in omaha 01-16-2013 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Janus (Post 9326545)
Ray Lewis actually has NFL-caliber talent unlike Te'o. That is another difference.

And ray Lewis should be in prison for murder

stevenidol 01-16-2013 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs Pantalones (Post 9326405)

OHHH MERRR GERRRRD! A picture of the crowd 17 minutes before tip off. Derp!

SAUTO 01-16-2013 07:48 PM

Now he will use the investigation as the excuse why he sucked against Alabama
Posted via Mobile Device

bigjosh 01-16-2013 07:50 PM

not sure if this has been shared yet.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...psaf01ce90.jpg

stonedstooge 01-16-2013 07:54 PM

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/REBvKfpkIjA?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Al Bundy 01-16-2013 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs Pantalones (Post 9326405)

We don't care about MU/KU fan.

Thig Lyfe 01-16-2013 07:57 PM

Good to see T'eo learned from the Lance Armstrong saga. Denying it should buy him a solid 12-13 years.

Deberg_1990 01-16-2013 07:59 PM

Wow, so will this show up on ESPN and all the draft shows?

wazu 01-16-2013 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini (Post 9325531)
http://m.deadspin.com/5976517/manti-teos-dead-girlfriend-the-most-heartbreaking-and-inspirational-story-of-the-college-football-season-is-a-hoax?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

I'm sure this hasn't been mentioned, but congrats on worst posting of a link ever.

BossChief 01-16-2013 08:04 PM

I bet the guy is a closet homosexual. Nttawwt...just sayin.

NJChiefsFan 01-16-2013 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 9326620)
I bet the guy is a closet homosexual. Nttawwt...just sayin.

That would explain making up a girl to his family and friends. Doing so with the entire country is something else entirely. Not that you said that, just making a comment.

Rasputin 01-16-2013 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjosh006 (Post 9326577)
not sure if this has been shared yet.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...psaf01ce90.jpg

ROFL That's pretty funny

kcxiv 01-16-2013 08:12 PM

man, this is so weird, i knew someone on the internet for years and she died of Cancer last year, I never met her, but i've talked to her, and her mom and her sister. She was never my girlfriend, haha, but she was a cool ass person.

To lie about somethign like that sucks, people go through hell and back.

RealSNR 01-16-2013 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thig Lyfe (Post 9326548)
win won

http://www.tenfingers.net/fourthumbs...da_512x384.jpg

Titty Meat 01-16-2013 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazu (Post 9326604)
I'm sure this hasn't been mentioned, but congrats on worst posting of a link ever.

Congrats on being the biggest bitch

Mr. Laz 01-16-2013 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan (Post 9326635)
That would explain making up a girl to his family and friends. Doing so with the entire country is something else entirely. Not that you said that, just making a comment.

he probably had no intentions of telling the whole country ... it just snowballed on him.

people around him start with good-natured teasing about him never being with any girls ... "Ha Ha ... are you gay or something? Ha Ha". But he is scared to death of anyone finding out so he takes it seriously.

He meets a girl online or something and tells friends she is his GF even though they have just chatted online or something. Maybe he even intentionally found a girl to talk to just so he could tell his friends.

friends start bugging about meeting her

after several months he can't make excuses anymore so he tells them she is sick

Friend start bugging him about meeting her more

he tells them it turns out that she is really sick and might be dying to get them off his back

eventually she has to die to cover up the lie of a lie of a lie ....


one of his friends tells a friend who tells a friend and it eventually makes it to someone in the media who runs with it because it's a dramatic story.


what started as a simple embarrassed guy making up a girlfriend beard turns into a national televised emotional piece that makes Teo a "hero".

:shrug:


just one possibility

Chiefs Pantalones 01-16-2013 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Bundy (Post 9326589)
We don't care about MU/KU fan.

We don't. We just like to pick on you. :)

NJChiefsFan 01-16-2013 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 9326678)
he probably had no intentions of telling the whole country ... it just snowballed on him.

people around him start with good-natured teasing about him never being with any girls ... "Ha Ha ... are you gay or something? Ha Ha". But he is scared to death of anyone finding out so he takes it seriously.

He meets a girl online or something and tells friends she is his GF even though they have just chatted online or something. Maybe he even intentionally found a girl to talk to just so he could tell his friends.

friends start bugging about meeting her

after several months he can't make excuses anymore so he tells them she is sick

Friend start bugging him about meeting her more

he tells them it turns out that she is really sick and might be dying to get them off his back

eventually she has to die to cover up the lie of a lie of a lie ....


one of his friends tells a friend who tells a friend and it eventually makes it to someone in the media who runs with it because it's a dramatic story.


what started as a simple embarrassed guy making up a girlfriend beard turns into a national televised emotional piece that makes Teo a "hero".

:shrug:


just one possibility

Thing is, for me anyway, I am going on the assumption that he knew the guy on the other side of this account. I know it's not proven yet, but that's why I think this is something well beyond just hiding his sexuality. He also was pretty damn willing to go on TV and talk about it for a guy not wanting any light shed on his sexual situation(if he was gay). There are a few too many things here for me to think it was just a snowball effect.

L.A. Chieffan 01-16-2013 08:33 PM

I don't care if he still thinks she's real, he's still very much worth the number one

SAUTO 01-16-2013 08:35 PM

Is laz speaking from experience?





Lol
Posted via Mobile Device

Mr. Laz 01-16-2013 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan (Post 9326700)
Thing is, for me anyway, I am going on the assumption that he knew the guy on the other side of this account. I know it's not proven yet, but that's why I think this is something well beyond just hiding his sexuality. He also was pretty damn willing to go on TV and talk about it for a guy not wanting any light shed on his sexual situation(if he was gay). There are a few too many things here for me to think it was just a snowball effect.

oh yea, there's more to it.

He has to be rather messed up in his head to let it go so far whatever the reason. He probably enjoyed feeling important and liked how people gushed over him.

I'm wondering why the real girl, who's name he used, didn't speak up earlier?

Mr. Laz 01-16-2013 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 9326721)
Is laz speaking from experience?

Lol
Posted via Mobile Device

:cuss:

I do like girls
I do like girls
I do like girls
I do like girls
I do like girls
I do like girls


I'm just .... empathetic ... yea, that is it ... empathetic. :harumph:

NJChiefsFan 01-16-2013 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 9326733)
oh yea, there's more to it.

He has to be rather messed up in his head to let it go so far whatever the reason. He probably enjoyed feeling important and liked how people gushed over him.

I'm wondering why the real girl, who's name he used, didn't speak up earlier?

Maybe she didn't want the attention. The article seems to indicate that. Maybe she didn't know they were using her picture. Hell, I never saw the "GF's" face until today and I assume I follow college a lot closer than her. Still, you would think somebody that knows her would have noticed.

silver5liter 01-16-2013 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. Chieffan (Post 9326715)
I don't care if he still thinks she's real, he's still very much worth the number one

You are the worst troll, try harder

Spott 01-16-2013 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. Chieffan (Post 9326715)
I don't care if he still thinks she's real, he's still very much worth the number one

ROFL

alnorth 01-16-2013 08:49 PM

wow... this dude is too stupid to draft in the 1st round.

tk13 01-16-2013 08:53 PM

During the press conference tonight ND's AD defended him all the way. He better really know something or he's going to look like the biggest idiot ever.

EagleRob 01-16-2013 08:56 PM

I shoulda taken Teo in the death pool

L.A. Chieffan 01-16-2013 09:00 PM

He could be banging the tooth fairy I don't give a shit. The dude is a player.

Spott 01-16-2013 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 9326777)
wow... this dude is too stupid to draft in the 1st 3 rounds.

FYP

ClevelandBronco 01-16-2013 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 9325634)
...But there is no SSA record there of the death of Lennay Marie Kekua, that day or any other. Her passing, recounted so many times in the national media, produces no obituary or funeral announcement in Nexis, and no mention in the Stanford student newspaper.

Nor is there any report of a severe auto accident involving a Lennay Kekua. Background checks turn up nothing. The Stanford registrar's office has no record that a Lennay Kekua ever enrolled. There is no record of her birth in the news. Outside of a few Twitter and Instagram accounts, there's no online evidence that Lennay Kekua ever existed...

No record at all? Damn. Sounds eerily like this guy:

http://termid.files.wordpress.com/20...bama-young.jpg

Lex Luthor 01-16-2013 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. Chieffan (Post 9326715)
I don't care if he still thinks she's real, he's still very much worth the number one

When are the mods going to get tired of this ****stick troll?

Joe_Camel 01-16-2013 09:14 PM

WTF?
Reagan Mauia, an Arizona Cardinals fullback, said he believes Kekua existed because he met her in person when he and other Polynesian teammates and Pittsburgh Steelers star Troy Polamalu went to do charity work in American Samoa in June 2011.

"This was before her and Manti," Mauia said Wednesday evening. "I don't think Manti was even in the picture, but she and I became good friends. We would talk off and on, just checking up on each other kind of thing. I am close to her family. When she was going through the loss of her father, I was -- I offered a comforting shoulder and just someone to bounce her emotions off. That was just from meeting her in Samoa."

Mauia said Tuiasosopo -- whom Mauia believes is Kekua's cousin -- introduced the two. After the initial meeting, Mauia said he met her at an "after-party" for all of the athletes involved in the camp.

"She was tall," he said. "Volleyball-type of physique. She was athletic, tall, beautiful. Long hair. Polynesian. She looked like a model ... "

He said it is his understanding that Kekua's mother is operating her Twitter account. He said he'd never met her mother. When told by a reporter that she apparently might not have existed, Mauia said: "No, she is real."

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...pparently-hoax

KC native 01-16-2013 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13 (Post 9326788)
During the press conference tonight ND's AD defended him all the way. He better really know something or he's going to look like the biggest idiot ever.

Yea, when he said there were multiple characters (whether that meant one person doing it or many wasn't clear) I got the inkling that maybe the mormon was just stupid. There are some good trolls out there and this may have been the work of one.

Buuuuuuut it is more likely he is gay.

Hammock Parties 01-16-2013 09:19 PM

Teoing is invented.

http://teoing.tumblr.com/

http://25.media.tumblr.com/c8ec30e54...b9u6o1_400.jpg

KC native 01-16-2013 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoWalrus (Post 9326869)

ROFL

DaneMcCloud 01-16-2013 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 300 Bowler (Post 9326853)
When are the mods going to get tired of this ****stick troll?

Never

splatbass 01-16-2013 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco (Post 9326844)
No record at all? Damn. Sounds eerily like this guy:

http://termid.files.wordpress.com/20...bama-young.jpg

Did I get lost and end up in DC?

KC native 01-16-2013 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco (Post 9326844)
No record at all? Damn. Sounds eerily like this guy:

http://termid.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/young.jpg

Keep that shit in dc. ****ing donkey dick face.

splatbass 01-16-2013 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC native (Post 9326865)
Yea, when he said there were multiple characters (whether that meant one person doing it or many wasn't clear) I got the inkling that maybe the mormon was just stupid.

I think naive and trusting more than stupid. He grew up in the small town of Laie, Hawaii, here on Oahu, a rural town of mostly Mormons, who aren't known for being worldly. Innocent small town kid suddenly in the spotlight. An easy target. JMO, but I believe at this point he was duped unless more information comes out contradicting that.

Bugeater 01-16-2013 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC native (Post 9326888)
Keep that shit in dc. ****ing donkey dick face.

Shit, people pull that crap in the Lounge all the damn time. They just can't help themselves.

ClevelandBronco 01-16-2013 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC native (Post 9326888)
Keep that shit in dc. ****ing donkey dick face.

Tu mamasita en las calles, joto.

Chiefs Pantalones 01-16-2013 09:37 PM

Not sure if wife was Te'oing it last night...

Chiefs Pantalones 01-16-2013 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco (Post 9326920)
Tu mamasita en las calles, joto.

No ma chingas! Tu madre es muy caliente!!!

Prison Bitch 01-16-2013 09:39 PM

If we draft him, I hope Jamaal doesn't fix him up with any chicks.

Mr. Laz 01-16-2013 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs Pantalones (Post 9326925)
Not sure if wife was Te'oing it last night...

at least she didn't Belcher it

alnorth 01-16-2013 09:43 PM

Looks like the gay angle was probably not true, this guy really was that dumb. UND apparently hired private investigators who found the people who did it, and from quietly monitoring their chat sessions, it looked like he was not in on it.

Mr. Laz 01-16-2013 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 9326937)
Looks like the gay angle was probably not true, this guy really was that dumb. UND apparently hired private investigators who found the people who did it, and from quietly monitoring their chat sessions, it looked like he was not in on it.

wow ... so what was the point of the 'prank'?

Hard to believe people would go to all that trouble just for a joke.

Prison Bitch 01-16-2013 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 9326937)
Looks like the gay angle was probably not true, this guy really was that dumb. UND apparently hired private investigators who found the people who did it, and from quietly monitoring their chat sessions, it looked like he was not in on it.

And yet, kept this knowledge hidden from the public so everyone would eat up the ruse. That only makes ND look worse.

alnorth 01-16-2013 09:47 PM

Quote:

ihateprospects ‏@ihateprospects
so I guess Manti is claiming what we all already knew: his play recognition skills are atrocious
ROFL

siberian khatru 01-16-2013 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 9326937)
Looks like the gay angle was probably not true, this guy really was that dumb. UND apparently hired private investigators who found the people who did it, and from quietly monitoring their chat sessions, it looked like he was not in on it.

So what about that South Bend newspaper story about them meeting at the Stanford game: "Their stares got pleasantly tangled, then Manti Te'o extended his hand to the stranger with a warm smile and soulful eyes. ...

Lennay Kekua was a Stanford student and Cardinal football fan when the two exchanged glances, handshakes and phone numbers that fateful weekend three seasons ago.

She was gifted in music, multi-lingual, had dreams grounded in reality and the talent to catch up to them.

The plan was for Kekua to spend extensive time with the whole Te'o family when upwards of 40 of them came to South Bend in mid-November for ND's Senior Day date with Wake Forest.

"They started out as just friends," Brian Te'o said. "Every once in a while, she would travel to Hawaii, and that happened to be the time Manti was home, so he would meet with her there. But within the last year, they became a couple.

So ... was there "a" girl who called herself "Lennay Kekua" just to set him up? She and her co-hoaxers "killed off" the character?

splatbass 01-16-2013 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 9326946)
wow ... so what was the point of the 'prank'?

Hard to believe people would go to all that trouble just for a joke.

Just speculation, since none of us know what happened, but it could have been extortion to get money or something out of him. They could have figured he would be too embarrassed for it to come out, and he will be rich soon. But being a basically honest but naive religious person he screwed up their plans by notifying the coaches.

Since he is from here he has been on the news here a lot, and his family and the people of his hometown too. His hometown is very small and mostly Mormon. The kind of place where everybody knows everybody. If he had any history of anything like this it would be well known here. The people in his town trust him completely. So if he was in on the plan it would be completely out of character. And from my experience (and there are a LOT of them in Hawaii) it is rare to find a Mormon that is anything but honest.

FloridaMan88 01-16-2013 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. Chieffan (Post 9326715)
I don't care if he still thinks she's real, he's still very much worth the number one

Te'o has marginal talent and is either the ultimate naive dumbshit or is a con-artist.

PASS.

L.A. Chieffan 01-16-2013 09:59 PM

If we can get him late in the first or second, it might be the biggest draft steal of all time

The Franchise 01-16-2013 10:04 PM

He seems more like a naive dumbass than a manipulative liar.

Discuss Thrower 01-16-2013 10:07 PM

If he didn't manufacture everything and in fact is a dumbass... Well, even Najeh Davenport found success in the NFL.

siberian khatru 01-16-2013 10:09 PM

Jason Whitlock ‏@WhitlockJason
Hearing that Joe Posnanski has agreed to write Manti Te'o biography.

Rudy tossed tigger's salad 01-16-2013 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siberian khatru (Post 9327003)
Jason Whitlock ‏@WhitlockJason
Hearing that Joe Posnanski has agreed to write Manti Te'o biography.

ROFL

ForeverChiefs58 01-16-2013 10:16 PM

the news said he made it up to try to gain sympathy to help his draft stock. Even he knows his play wasn't enough

DaneMcCloud 01-16-2013 10:17 PM

If Te'o was truly unaware of this so-called "plot" and truly believed this "girl" was his girlfriend, I can't ****ing wait to read his Wonderlic score.

This guy might be the first human ever to score a zero.

Mr. Laz 01-16-2013 10:18 PM

ProFootballTalk<s style="text-decoration: initial; color: rgb(187, 187, 187);">@</s>ProFootballTalk
So ESPN knew about the Te'o story before the BCS title game. I'd love to know how many ESPN employees bet on Alabama.
Collapse

the Talking Can 01-16-2013 10:20 PM

the chances he is that dumb, and had no idea what was happening:




0

Mr. Laz 01-16-2013 10:20 PM

So did Teo ever actually meet this girl in person or was the entire thing online?


How can you call someone your GF if you have never met them IRL?


How could ESPN not report this as soon as they found out?


bizarre

Discuss Thrower 01-16-2013 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 9327036)
So did Teo ever actually meet this girl in person or was the entire thing online?


How can you call someone your GF if you have never met them IRL?


How could ESPN not report this as soon as they found out?


bizarre

ESPN != actual journalism.

KC native 01-16-2013 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splatbass (Post 9326902)
I think naive and trusting more than stupid. He grew up in the small town of Laie, Hawaii, here on Oahu, a rural town of mostly Mormons, who aren't known for being worldly. Innocent small town kid suddenly in the spotlight. An easy target. JMO, but I believe at this point he was duped unless more information comes out contradicting that.

You're probably right but I like to call mormons stupid (not because of the weird religion but because of BYU).

splatbass 01-16-2013 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can (Post 9327033)
the chances he is that dumb, and had no idea what was happening:




0

I disagree. Knowing the people of Laie I'd say it is significantly higher than zero.

KC native 01-16-2013 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 9327036)
So did Teo ever actually meet this girl in person or was the entire thing online?


How can you call someone your GF if you have never met them IRL?


How could ESPN not report this as soon as they found out?


bizarre

Because of the potential to kill the ratings for the national championship game.

Mr. Laz 01-16-2013 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC native (Post 9327054)
Because of the potential to kill the ratings for the national championship game.

why would it lower ratings?

people would tune in just to see if a reporter would ask Teo about it before/after the game.


sounds more like some high level exec at ESPN is a ND alum

siberian khatru 01-16-2013 10:27 PM

Too long to post, worth the read:

http://outkickthecoverage.com/manti-...e-internet.php

KC native 01-16-2013 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 9327062)
why would it lower ratings?

people would tune in just to see if a reporter would ask Teo about it before/after the game.


sounds more like some high level exec at ESPN is a ND alum

What if it killed the hype? What if people got a huge distaste for Te'o because of it?

I could see it being a heated argument but why would they risk that?

saphojunkie 01-16-2013 10:32 PM

Dude the odds that a 21 year old Mormon virgin who has been sheltered his entire life was duped by 21st century Catfishing vs. the odds that he masterminded a fantastic hoax to somehow win more credit despite being the #1 player on the most famous football team in America is just... less than damning.

I'm on the "duped" bandwagon. The "in on the hoax" thing just makes no ****ing sense.

KC native 01-16-2013 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie (Post 9327073)
Dude the odds that a 21 year old Mormon virgin who has been sheltered his entire life was duped by 21st century Catfishing vs. the odds that he masterminded a fantastic hoax to somehow win more credit despite being the #1 player on the most famous football team in America is just... less than damning.

I'm on the "duped" bandwagon. The "in on the hoax" thing just makes no ****ing sense.


I think he's a rube and fell for it.

As for the motivation of the people perpetrating the hoax? Quite possibly some of the best trolls ever going for maximum lulz, or more likely they planned to extort him after he got paid.

Hammock Parties 01-16-2013 10:35 PM

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...TideTA/teo.gif

KC native 01-16-2013 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoWalrus (Post 9327084)

ROFL there is a ton of hilarious material from this already.

Deberg_1990 01-16-2013 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siberian khatru (Post 9327064)

Deadspin is now the most trusted name in all sports media. Wow.
Posted via Mobile Device

KC native 01-16-2013 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 9327089)
Deadspin is now the most trusted name in all sports media. Wow.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yea, and it's ****ing blocked at my work :#

DaneMcCloud 01-16-2013 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 9327036)
So did Teo ever actually meet this girl in person or was the entire thing online?


How can you call someone your GF if you have never met them IRL?


How could ESPN not report this as soon as they found out?


bizarre

ESPN didn't report it because they own the broadcast rights to the Bowl Championship Series.

If they had reported all this shit with Te'o, they would have run the risk that no one would have tuned in, especially since Notre Dame was already a big underdog.

Rudy tossed tigger's salad 01-16-2013 10:40 PM

So the "brother"/hoaxer decides to call him the same day his Grandma dies? Seems fishy... unless someone is just that cruel for no reason

The Franchise 01-16-2013 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudy Was Offsides. (Post 9327100)
So the "brother"/hoaxer decides to call him the same day his Grandma dies? Seems fishy... unless someone is just that cruel for no reason

Have you met the human race? People are ****ing cruel as hell.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:08 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.