How about the Matty Ice I video?

Yes, indeed, that is a zipped ball. Thrown at the 14, caught at the 41...

Range 27 yards.

Sorry. I was wrong. I said Matt had 25 yards of zip. He actually has 27. Please forgive me.

This throw travels 42 yards (more if you account for the angle) and takes about 2.3 seconds (I noted the time in virtualdubmod from the frame of his release to the frame of the ball hitting the hands) to get there. Weak arm? Really?

http://i32.tinypic.com/29nta46.gif

Same crap that was said about Brady. Weak arm. Can't throw it deep. In the meantime. Zip zip zip. Ball always got there
His arm is good enough. He's got the other intangibles that are more important.

Want arm strength. Get Jeff George.
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In the Miami game he has a 32 yard rope in the 2nd half. The clip is up at nfl.com if you care to post it.

but it left the screen so it was a floater

#1 overwhelming need huh?


So the Chiefs D-line set an NFL record for least sacks in a season... I'm not sure it's so obvious as all of that.
Hrmmmm..... :hmmm:

D-line? Huh-uh.

The entire DEFENSE set the record for least amount of sacks in a single season at 10.

Personally, I don't see many more in store for the 2009 season. Who's going to get to the QB? Vrabel? Hali? Ha!

I'm actually extremely excited that the Chiefs moved back to the 3-4 defense but I think it's going to take at least one more offseason before we see any significant results in regards to sacks.

[QUOTE=GoChiefs;6009706]This throw travels 42 yards (more if you account for the angle) and takes about 2.3 seconds (I noted the time in virtualdubmod from the frame of his release to the frame of the ball hitting the hands) to get there. Weak arm? Really?

/QUOTE]


What is great about that one is that, once again, the ball is thrown so high it is out of the picture. Have another angle of that?

Good example. Byron Leftwich is another. Leftwich can throw a flat 50 yard lazer. That doesn't make him a good QB.

Arm strength is, however, an important part of the arsenal. Without it, the offense is "limited" by it.

[quote=TFG;6009817]It takes 2.3 seconds to get there.

Any faster and you're talking about Jeff George level arm strength.

The throw pretty much shows that Cassel has above-average arm strength. In no way does he have a weak arm.

Granted, the Chiefs had a pretty long list of "needs" this offseason. Jason Babin has looked really good for the Eagles. Wasn't he playing pretty well at the end of last year?

Even before a pass rush, a defense must STOP THE RUN, not give up 80 yarders to LenDale White. The Chiefs urgently need someone TOUGH in the middle of the DL. That dumb team in Foxboro got the one and only one player in the Draft to fit that description... Ron Brace of BC.

While the top of the Draft is well "covered," there were a lot of players in this Draft I really liked as "late/undrafted," and Darryl Harris was at the top of that list. Others:

6th Round

Brice McCain CB Utah (knock on him - no stats - wait, did they even throw at him??)
Myron Pryor DT Kentucky (First Round caliber athlete with injury and 'tude questions)
Stephen Hodge LB TCU (has knee probs right now, kid is a real force when healthy)


Undrafted

Edwin Williams C Maryland (my "best C in Draft" over Mack and the rest, flawless snapping motion, power, anchor, more athletic than given credit for, smart durable high character = PRAY the Skins cut this kid and the Chiefs grab him - a "reverse Lilja")
Reshard Langford S Vanderbilt (ran poorly on Pro Day, really a top player in all aspects)
Woodny Turenne CB Louisville (impressive before broken clavicle, ran sub 4.5 a few months after the injury, great player with ball skills and hips)
Lucas Taylor WR Tennessee (already waived/IR for Denver, was a Second Round grade in 2007 before injuries - real speed and hands)
Jacob Lacey CB Oklahoma State (world class man cover guy, skinny, not yet a good tackler)

[QUOTE=GoChiefs;6009853]
So it was faster than a punt = that's your claim?

Sorry, but I'd like to SEE IT before taking your word on the scale of seconds/yards...

[quote=TFG;6009878]Count it off yourself. 2.3 seconds.

The trajectory of the ball is irrelevant.

[QUOTE=GoChiefs;6009917]

How can the trajectory of the ball be irrelevant if the question is specifically about trajectory - zipped or floated??? :rolleyes:

Throw timecode on the video for accuracy

[quote=TFG;6009961]Here you go:

http://i30.tinypic.com/2n0ve2t.gif

[QUOTE=GoChiefs;6009979]
I would not describe that as a "zipped" ball. It is arced. The initial angle of ascent is about 30 degrees. Cutler, Elway, JaMarcus, they can throw those FLAT.

This might be the dumbest discussion ever.

Indeed, compare the trajectory of that to the Matty Ice 1 throw, which is flat, or launched with an under 10 degree initial angle of ascension.

Good thing you showed up to validate it...

Herm Edwards Officially Named Chiefs Head Coach
January 9th, 2006 @ 3:00 pm; ChiefsWarpath.com [KC Chiefs.com] Chiefs President Carl Peterson announced on Monday that he has appointed Herm Edwards as the 10th head coach in Chiefs history. Edwards agreed to a four-year contract with the club. Per Chiefs policy, no other terms of the agreement were made available. As compensation for Edwards, the Chiefs have traded a fourth-round draft choice in 2006 to the N.Y. Jets.

“We selected Herm Edwards because he is without question one of the most qualified head football coaches in the NFL today,” Peterson commented. “He has the experience of five years as a Head Coach, five years as an Assistant Head Coach and almost 10 years as a position coach in the NFL. Herm has coached players and teams in playoff games and he has won playoff games.

“Herm knows what the National Football League is all about. He is a man of integrity, family and great passion for the game. He coaches all aspects of the game, and he coaches them well. Herm has tremendous relationships with players and coaches throughout the League. Exclusive of my personal relationship with Herm Edwards, this organization has hired Herm Edwards for his outstanding personal and positive characteristics. His teams have always been at the top of the league in fewest penalties, giveaway/takeaway ratio and sound fundamentals. Herm’s teams are always well disciplined and well coached.”

Edwards embarks on his sixth season as an NFL head coach in 2006, his 27th overall season in the league as either a player or a coach. He arrives in Kansas City after a five-year stint as the head coach of the N.Y. Jets (2001-05).

Prior to joining the Jets, Edwards spent five seasons serving as assistant head coach/defensive backs coach for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, working under current Indianapolis Colts head coach Tony Dungy. Edwards served as a scout for Kansas City from ‘90-91 before joining Marty Schottenheimer’s staff as defensive backs coach (’92-94), filling the vacancy left by Dungy, who departed to become defensive coordinator of the Minnesota Vikings.




Oh, did you mean this offseason?

You apparently haven't been receiving PM's from n00bs as I have

[quote=TFG;6009991]Whatever. It's a freaking 50-yard throw. Expecting it to be thrown on a frozen rope is ridiculous. That throw in NO WAY indicates a QB with a weak arm.

http://i25.tinypic.com/2jb4ks8.gif

[QUOTE=GoChiefs;6010055]Exactly. I hardly think Brady's pass to Moss below was a "rope"...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fGWjti8fWAs&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fGWjti8fWAs&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[QUOTE=TFG;6009991]First, um, no, they can't. No one can.

Second, even if they could, they wouldn't do it on a deep ball in a game.

There is this thing called the defense. To properly place the ball where it needs to be, you have to throw it over two or three levels of defense. Many times, you have to 'drop it in' between the linebackers and the defensive backfield.

Or, throw it downfield over the cb and let the WR run underneath it.

But, the premise than anyone can throw fifty yards FLAT.... is um... well, very, very false.

I am not saying that Cassel has a 'cannon', but he isn't Chad Pennington either.

Brady doesn't have a rocket arm. Heck, Croyle's 'arm strength' is much better than Brady... but I will take Brady every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[QUOTE=GoChiefs;6010055]Actually, it is a forty yard throw. But, your point is valid otherwise.

matt ryan is matty ice

Cassel is standing on the 47 and the ball hits a receiver at the 7-yard line.

When you compensate for the angle...

i dont think you actually compensate for angle

Sure you do. A football field is 53 1/3 yards wide.

A 10-yard completion to the middle of the field is a much easier throw than a 10-yard out to the sideline. The sideline throw travels a much greater distance...

[quote=TFG;6009991]JaMarcus ROFL Yeah, perhaps we should have traded for that dude, because he can "throw a flat ball." :spock:

[QUOTE=Bwana;6010282]

Not much matters if the big uglies on the other team's defense blow right by the offensive line...

It matters more, too, when its a rookie or young kid QB. If you look at who had success and who didn't, the OL plays a big variable. Big Ben started his rookie year with 3 OL Pro Bowlers in Marvel Smith, Faneca, and Hartings. Culpepper had 4 OL Pro Bowlers, Moss and Carter, and Robert Smith when he started. Dave Carr had no protection, as a good example of the reverse.

Fix the OL first. THEN get the rookie QB. The Colts learned from Jeff George, who had no protection at all. When Peyton was picked, Tarik Glenn and the other OT - Meadows - were already there. Ryan Leaf did not enjoy such protection, but had other problems too...

I can't believe that was questioned.

Yes, indeed, we can agree about that. Anyone want a lesson on "hypotenuse" measure??

Well let's see....47 yards on one side, 27 yards on the other (Cassel is in the middle of the field), what's the other side come out to?

Once we know that we can determine the velocity of the throw and convert to mph and compare to MLB...

:rockon:

so you would say that ball was a 50 yard throw?

i get that. but is that how the nfl or anyone else measures the throw?

I haven't followed the thread.

I just noticed that you don't understand basic math.

no

Not for statistical purposes.

But for real-world purposes, sure.

you ****ing idiot i understand math. next time you should follow the thread before saying stupid shit

thank you. now that was a 40 yard throw in the air. from the 47 to the 7

Only for statistical purposes.

The actual length of the throw was closer to 50 yards.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/mthrighttri.html

48.2 if we assume Cassel is standing 27 yards from the sideline and the ball travels from the 47 to the 7.

claythan no one calls it that way NO ONE

That's what is important. It means Cassel can throw the ball 50 yards in 2.3 seconds.

Not 40 yards.

You said it, ****stick.

The ball has to travel a longer distance from the middle of the field to the sideline than it does directly in front of you.

Basic shit.

This is a ****ing stupid argument you can't throw a ball on a rope 50 yards without someone deflecting it. It's probably the Thigpen morons who are dissing Cassel.

The pass was 54.2 yards


27 x 27 = 729
47 x 47 = 2209

square root of sum of 729 and 2209 is 54.20332


Right triangle hypotenuse is the square root of the sum of the squared sides of the right angle.

Well, you can, but you need to be sure nobody is in the way of it.

I should have said 40, not 47. Anyway, CP math lesson for the day. :D

That would make the throw 47.2 yards in the air.

HEY dickhead everyone knows that. EVERYONE. that wasnt the ****ing point.

[QUOTE=GoChiefs;6010055][QUOTE=SensibleChiefsfan;6010198]You said it, so apparently not EVERYONE knows that the ball traveled further than it would have had it been thrown down the middle of the field.

[QUOTE=OnTheWarpath58;6010523][QUOTE=GoChiefs;6010055]

hey dumbass what would the nfl classify that throw as?

[QUOTE=OnTheWarpath58;6010523][QUOTE=GoChiefs;6010055]

another funny thing is that others said the EXACT same thing as me.

[QUOTE=JASONSAUTO;6010546][QUOTE=OnTheWarpath58;6010523]Who cares?

That wasn't what was being discussed until AFTER you said the stupid shit you said - to cover your ass.

When GC called it a 50 yard throw, it was a very accurate calculation, as we've been shown.

[QUOTE=OnTheWarpath58;6010557][QUOTE=JASONSAUTO;6010546]look pussy i dont do ANYTHING to "cover my ass" it's actually less than a 40 yard throw by nfl standards. how about **** you?

OTW this was one of the 1st posts about this. clay HIMSELF called it a 42 yard throw. he threw in that it went farther if you count the angle. ok then later he says it's a 50 yard throw. somone corrected him. probably a typo at that point. HE was covering his ass and figured out how far with the angle.

So...what's the issue here, again?

i just said that you shouldnt include the angle. why? thats not how ANYONE calls it.

then the asshole wants to jump in and put in his 2 ****ing cents. **** him

For the purposes of our discussion, the angle was relevant.

It's also relevant to NFL scouts who want to know if a guy can throw a 15-yard out with zip.

Dude, have you ever considered just settling down and not telling everyone **** you and **** this and **** that at any sign of disagreement?

We're all friends here.

Exactly.

That's why guys with a strong arm are coveted.

Being able to throw a 15-20 yard out and not give a DB time to jump it is crucial.

have you ever seen me get that way unprovoked? oh and **** him. i disagree with people who dont act as though they are the end all be all quite often and it never gets that way. otw is just a conceited asshole

No.

:p

i agree cassel will be ok, hoping for more out of him though

It absolutely IS the most ridiculous QB discussion I've ever seen.

I'd like for somebody to calculate the throw as if Cassel was on the moon.

That would be a floater, but the speed of opposing defensive backs might be affected by the low gravity.

I'm sure the Patriots would try to cheat with jetpacks on the moon.

You know, it seems like yesterday you were just a kid getting banned every other minute.

Now, all growed up and trying to sow seed. How did it all happen so fast?

OK. Here is the final word on this bullshit

Frozen. ****ing. Rope.

http://i29.tinypic.com/a23bic.gif

Nice!

I'm gonna say Cassel is about 22 yards from the sideline...judging by the hash marks....the ball travels 30 yards up field at an angle....so that's about a 35-yard throw.

The funny part is that you actually consider yourself 'educated'.

Of course they want a 15 yard out with zip.... but they still call it a 15 yard out, not a 20.25 yard out taking into consideration the angle.

Plus, the throw for the 15 yard out is MUCH different that a throw downfield.

A 15 yard out has to get there in a hurry. You are throwing into traffic.

Downfield, especially if you look off the safety, you just have to lay it up and give your WR a shot at the ball. Place it on the outside shoulder to where he can only get it.

Talking about the angle on a downfield throw is stupid.

First, no one is arguing that.

Second, the throw for a 15 or 20 yard out is completely different than a 40 yard throw downfield.

No it's not.

Ignoring it is stupid.

That ball wasn't "laid up." The DB had tight coverage. A quarterback with a weaker arm might have had it intercepted.

First, you aren't arguing with someone who thinks Cassel is a weak armed QB.

Second, the ball PLACEMENT on that throw is what was important. Granted, had it been 'underthrown'... then that would have been a problem.... but the speed at which it gets there, other than the timing for the WR is largely unimportant.

I love archives...

Ooooppppsss... too much truth, time to ban that TFG poster...