If the alternative is be lumped in with a group that thinks Brady is comparable or even better than Payton Manning? I'll live with it.

'Cause it isn't close.

I wouldn't put it that way on the first point, but the line is no excuse. That I agree with. He had good enough protection in the second half of the season and a hell of a lot better than Aaron Rodgers gets.

On the second point, that's something I also agree with. As I watched the Colts play last night, I realized that Peyton Manning actually throws to the back of his receivers quite a bit. He's not always perfect at leading his receivers. And as I watched the Saints, Brees throws a ton of passes to the receivers' back shoulder. The Saints' receivers are actually really remarkable about making in-pass adjustments to the ball. i remember a TD pass where I think it was Devery Henderson pretty much did a full 180 to make the proper adjustment to the ball on a fleaflicker. And if you watch Philip Rivers today, what you will see is probably the deadest, worst thrown ball I've ever seen in the NFL. But his receivers catch them. Of course I'm not implying that Cassel is even close to being in any of those guys' league. But I have seen the excuse thrown around that he cripples his receivers, but the more I watch playoff football, the more I realize that receivers just don't have any excuse for not catching a ball that isn't within reasonable reaching distance of their hands. Good receivers make adjustments. Chambers has done that a lot. My opinion of Bowe has taken a complete nosedive throughout this season.

The thing is, in NE he showed he has the ability to play well in the right system, with a lot of surrounding talent.

In KC, he showed he doesn't have to ability to raise the level of talent around him, and in some ways drag the talent down.

We're on the same page. But, honestly, I don't know how else to put it when I hear talk about Cassel's development being stunted because of the line. It was really bad in a handful of games. Fine. But not a problem in the second half.

What are you supposed to call a QB who can't overcome this mental obstacle?

Also, notice that Manning uses all of his options, distributing the ball to anyone, including no-name limp dicks. Magically, they catch passes and make plays. Why is this? Superior talent? Or...

I don't think Cassel throws a very catchable ball.

[QUOTE=milkman;6452424]The thing is, in NE he showed he has the ability to play well in the right system, with a lot of surrounding talent.

In KC, he showed he doesn't have to ability to raise the level of talent around him, and in some ways draf the talent down.[/QUOTE]

Maybe he did? LOL They were so bad you just couldn't tell.


PhilFree:arrow:

OK..that made me laugh.



It would surprise me too....but I would be surprised at nothing.

I do see us taking a QB somewhere, considering the fact that it's pretty evident that Croyle is not even fit to be a backup.

mmaddog
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I think there's a difference between a poorly placed ball and a poorly thrown ball (though I would also argue that a couple of the passes you allude to here, like the Henderson catch, were actually perfectly placed throws given the coverage, but that's another debate).

Some of the drops by the Chiefs were both poorly placed and poorly thrown.

A drop by Bowe was a ball so wobbly it damn near looked like an end over end punted ball.

The thing is, you aren't going to get 10cents on the dollar with Cassel. You really can't deal him at this point because there is absolutely no market for him.

I think Clausen is going to go #1 to the Rams, so it's a mute point.

I think Weis is probably one of the best groomers of QBs in the NFL. The guy knows talent and knows how to elevate talent. If Cassel can't progress with him, then we are ****ed. Plain and simple.

If he doesn't progress this year is done as he will not see the big roster bonus for 2011.

Don't get me wrong. Perfectly thrown balls. And what makes Brees so amazing is he is flawless at knowing how to throw passes that only the receiver can get to. Cassel doesn't have that. The point is, there are a ton of catches in the game where I saw Brees throw to a receiver's back shoulder and the receiver makes an in-route adjustment. I almost never see Bowe do that. I have seen Chambers do that on a number of occasions, and he's only been here half a year.

This is definitely not saying Brees is inaccurate. It's merely ripping into our receivers, namely Bowe, for never doing anything in-route to adjust to the ball.

Some of them were. Unfortunately, a pretty good chunk of them were imperfect but very catchable passes. Like I said, if you actually watch the placement of a lot of Peyton's passes, they end up at the receiver's back hip. Sometimes that's intentional, but regardless, it's not a pass in stride and the receiver makes a necessary adjustment. Apart from Chambers and once a game (at the most) Bowe, our receivers can't catch the ball unless it is a perfect pass thrown exactly in stride. That's an enormous problem.

Sometimes. But I would argue that on most passes, Cassel's ball looks a hundred times better than Rivers' ball. And Chargers' receivers never drop a thing.


I'm not making excuses for Cassel. He's got to get better and he can't do 1/20 of the things yesterday's QBs did. But the more I watch the playoffs, the more I realize how much our receivers suck. And it's not just the Fitzgeralds of the world doing this. It's the Colliers, the Devery Hendersons, and the Doucets. The more I watch these guys the more I question if Bowe is any good at all.

Given how well Arizona's other receivers stepped up in the playoffs, I'm going to be somewhat surprised if KC doesn't make a pretty hard push for Boldin.

Might likely be saying goodbye to one of our seconds, in addition to something else.

I don't buy that.

Chambers hasn't had much problem catching the ball. And Rivers throws the absolute worst ball in football.

Our receivers just aren't very good. And Chris Chambers, a good not great receiver, who performed extremely well in the worst of circumstances is living proof of that.

Idk if id want anquan for a 2nd. Hes 30 and is getting injured often

Rivers' mechanics are ugly, but his passes are not the worst balls in football.

He throws a very catchable ball.

Mort reported on ESPN this morning that Arizona is going to be "very aggressive" in moving him - to the point of only taking a 3rd and 5th.

He throws the ball with quite a bit of accuracy. I'm just pointing out that his passes wobble more than any QB in the league right now.

For a guy who caught 36 balls, you've been loving on Chambers an awful lot.

Sadly, he's been one of Pioli's best moves, but I need to see more before I'm ready to crown Chambers' ass just yet. If we could get two more productive seasons out of him, that would be a win. Hell, I'd settle for a strong '10.

But he was very good at fielding wobble punts from Cassel. Dude bailed out his QB on some of the more embarrassing deep balls that I've seen.

Shocked if that doesn't land him in KC.

Which would mean no WR in the second, but...that's ok given the overall weak class. 2011 is going to be ****ing sick, though.

I only love Chambers because I think he's exposed our receiver corps for being as bad as they are. Before Chambers, I thought Bowe was pretty much untouchable. A million excuses for why he was underperforming.

I think Chambers has 1-2 years left in the tank and I worry that he'll disappear after he gets a big contract, as he did in San Diego. But in terms of the way he played the position, he was the only receiver in 2009 for the Chiefs that looked like he belonged in the NFL. Bowe included. He made adjustments to the ball, made the extra effort to make catches, and didn't drop passes.

With the way Haley seems feel about injured players I don't know if he'll be interested in Bolden. It seems like a fit in one way but I don't know. For a 5th I'm in.


PhilFree:arrow:

I would be shocked still, if he did land in KC.

His contract issues don't fit the "Right 53" profile.

I want to see a '10 Bowe minus some of Haley's early bullshit. For example, I'd like to see him actually get to work with Cassel in preseason. Crazy shit like that.

I hope someone "changes the culture" by shoving "the right 53" right up Pioli's ass.

Better yet, we get talented players and the empty rhetoric stops because there's no need for it.

Well maybe if he comes into camp in shape and at the correct weight he'll get that chance. At this point he knows what's expected of him so he has no excuses.


PhilFree:arrow:

Be in shape. Fine. Of course.

But I don't want to hear about artificial numbers relative to weight. Placing stock in meaningless numbers is for pussies and Vermeil.

Then it's an absolute no brainer. They have to at least pursue this guy even with his chronic injury problems.

They would need to add a speed guy in the slot, but a Boldin and Bowe tandem would be nice.

no one wants to hear this, i have said it many times. NO QB IS PERFECT. i said to myself many times during both games that we had NO wr tha wouldve caught those balls. hell a couple of weeks ago rivers threw a wobbler to his, GASP, FULLBACK yep you heard me his fullback, and it was actually caught. wow
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That's a fair point, but it's another reason I point to Chambers. This is a guy who worked with Cassel for less than a week before he started to explode. I can only hope that he's made Bowe realize that he's out of excuses. Bowe, to me, is quickly reaching DJ status. A talented player who doesn't play the position consistently enough that I wonder if this is a guy you want on a playoff roster a few years from now.

Boldin-Chambers-Bowe

Alright!

I don't know.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems to me that Chambers had a few drops, including one of the few well thrown balls that Cassel actually made.

It's about the discipline. If Bowe is truly discipline like Haley wants he'll make his weight. Bowe knows that if he's not at his weight it's gonna cut into his reps and it's gonna cause him to take some crap. It's on him.


PhilFree:arrow:

There is no magic weight number. I hope having vet. coaches around him helps Haley realize this. Because if we're going to run an effective 34, we're going to need a big body in the middle, and I'd really like it if Haley wouldn't **** this guy around.

Thanks...so we have to hope that Weis can make Cassel into the QB we need for the system we are going to run?

While I am on the pattern here....who do you see as a FA RB pickup that we could snag to give Charles breathers so we don't wear him out?

mmaddog
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You're right there is no magic number but that's not the point. Discipline is the point. I hate to say it but I'm not convinced he'll get it. He seemed kind of broken spirited after his suspension.


PhilFree:arrow:

I don't think we sign a free agent. I think we draft someone in the 4th or 5th round. Someone like Blount from Oregon, Anthony Dixon from Miss. State.

If Boldin is here, there is no need for Chris Chambers.