I understand what rationalization is Hamas. I even said in the draft thread I can rationalize this pick LMAO

Have you gone back and read and watched this kid? I don't see how you can't be excited about him.

I don't see how Waters can stick around just to be a back up. Honestly i'm wonderng why Pioli keeps wasting resources on positions like Guard and tight end but wont address the QB position.

Apparently for the Chiefs, Pioli, Haley and Weis, it was.

Time will tell whether or not it pays off but I am not going to proclaim at this point in time that it was a "wasted pick".

Keep in mind, the Chiefs had four tight ends on their roster last year in Ryan, Pope, O'Connell and Cottam. Ryan is gone, Cottam ended the year on IR (again), Pope is nothing special and O'Connell has a long, long way to go before being a productive NFL player.

They needed to make a move of some sort and this was it. I'll wait a while to judge whether it was right or wrong.

Good post though the pick I was most upset about and still am is the moving up and taking an oft-injured TE. I didn't like the Areanas pick either but I guess in their mind a KR\slot CB is more important than NT.

My responses to you aren't psychological answers, they are logical ones.

:facepalm:

Good God.

He addressed the QB position last year by trading for Cassel and signing Gutierrez. He wasn't going to address it again this year.

The offensive line needed to be addressed, big time. Hopefully, Brown will start at right guard and Asamoah at left, giving the Chiefs four young players along their line to build around.

I have absolutely no issues with Asamoah as a Chief. The guy could be a 10 year starter barring injury.

Thomas wasn't drafted until the 5th round. Using your own logic, that would not be a "very high draft pick". Therefore, why would you assume he was the right nose tackle to take when all those 'elite' NTs you pointed to were drafted in the first (Wilfork, Hampton) or second round (Jenkins, Williams, Rogers)?

I used to run the draft every year for thi team. Does my opinion count? Before you answer, I think Pioli. or Egoli as my favorite moron shitbag columnist calls him, sucks balls.

Yea Asamoah was a good pick hopefully the next Will Shields though thats expecting alot. The point is Pioli addressed the QB and it sucked and did nothing. He addressed other said positions they sucked and he addressed them again.

Like I said, I think he could potentially be Dave Meggett if everything works out for him.

That said, Sergio Kindle could be Brian Orakpo, DeMarcus Ware, or James Harrison if everything works out for him.

Who would you rather have?

(and again, realize that neither are realistic comparisons)

As long as Pioli is here, Matt Cassel will be, too.

He will play out that contract by hook or by crook.

You don't get a lower risk-higher reward selection than Clausen at 36, and if you don't take him there, we aren't drafting a QB high--ever.

Megget is the floor.....you're so full of your own spew.

PhilFree:arrow:

And you sound like a moron who doesn't understand logic and you are completely incapable of understanding the implicit flaws in your line of thinking, so let me draw it out for your stupid ass in crayon:

Some other NFL talent evaluators: Charlie Casserly, Matt Millen, Tom Donahoe, Carl Peterson, Ted Xanders, Pat Kirwin.

Are they, because of the positions that they hold, beyond reproach? Do they know what they are doing simply because they are "evaluators"?


The answer of course, is no. I shouldn't have to tell you this. You're an adult, for Christ's sake.

Dave Meggett on the field or off the field? ;)

So Dexter McCluster is, at worst, a two time Pro Bowler?

Bull****.

If you're a GM and you don't think the guy you're targeting will make it to your slot, you do what's necessary to get him. You don't say "Well, if I give up this later pick, I may not be able to get a lesser talent".

Make a plan, make a decision and move forward. These guys can't play the "what if" game if they can get their guy.

I think the problem with this particular selection is that you don't agree with them moving up to get Moeaki. That's fine. But it doesn't make your opinion "right" and their move "wrong" on 4/25/2010.

It may make you "right" at some point during this season or next but I find this pick hard to get worked up about. If Moeaki becomes the player they envision, who cares that Cam Thomas may have been there later?

We can go with off too, because much like Meggett is a convicted rapist, the justifications of these picks represent a rape of critical thinking.

Are you? Juat shut the **** up! :shake:ROFLLMAO:shake:


PhilFree:arrow:

I'd say that Reggie Tongue was, for all intents and purposes, who the Chiefs thought he was.

We still should have taken Brian Dawkins.

Your posts read like poetry.


ROFL

No, and I never claimed as such.

It's not surprising that someone with your limited mental capabilities would draw such an erroneous conclusion, though.

Just say it You miss me. Don't you? I drafted Derrck Thomas, Will Shields, and built a team that was a contender for over a decade. And quit blaming me for Todd F***ing Blackledge.

I hope he doesn't emulate Megget off the field then we should have signed the sister ****er OL dude.

The only pick I am justifiying is McCluster I think he is going to be a very good player and we desperately needed an offensive playmaker. I have a feeling you are going to be happy about him during the season.

Yeah I'm the one who is limited.:facepalm:

PhilFree:arrow:

If you're wrong, we're kicking you OUT of the drafturbators. You can turn in your ring AND your tie tack.

It's not my tone, it's the fact that you are attacked for having an opinion that diverts from the party line.

If you want to disagree with me, I don't care. It doesn't bother me. But the least that you can do is offer substantive evidence when you disagree. Not "Pioli is GM and you're not, therefore your argument is invalid".

And I've willingly admitted my past mistakes in player evaluations multiple times--guys like Gholston and Matt Ryan for example.

I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. I just expect that those who disagree with me will offer evidence when they do so.

If you want to point out McCluster's production in the SEC, that's perfectly valid.

If you want to say that he's a good pick, then provide some evidence.

If you want to say that he's a better pick than others available at the time, then support that reason with specific examples.

It's not difficult, but it seems to be a Sisyphean undertaking for anyone to do so.

We needed a part-time offensive playmaker more desperately than a full time run stuffer, ILB or pass rusher?

Ask Jerome Harrison what he thinks we need.

I don't think many people are complaining about the players themselves, as much as they are upset that the draft fell right to us in terms of value and need, and we overlooked it. If I had told everyone before the draft that we were going to pass on guys like Daryl Washington, Koa Misi, Everson Griffen, Terrence Cody, Sergio Kindle, Sean Lee and Taylor Mays in the 2nd round and take McCluster and Arenas, I would have been laughed off the board.

And for a HC to say that getting a KR was a "must" for a team that has the worst front 7/LB corp in football is criminal.

Kick returners don't win you championships. Neither do undersized part-time slot WR's.

One thing I can guarantee you is that you will NOT sniff a championship without having a solid front seven/run defense.

Phil, my sack mist is more intelligent than you.

Don't you have to be a drafturbator to kick someone out??

GoChiefs a drafturbator LMAO More like a masterbator. ROFL

So, you disagree with the selections but admit the need? Or just disagree with the selections?

I have no problem with this draft. I'll take potential playmakers with great resumes any day of the week over a fatass NT and a Texas linebacker with possible medical problems.

The Chiefs needed playmakers and they needed help defensively up the middle. Apparently, they felt the offensive playmakers were more of an immediate need than run stuffers.

And let's replay the Cleveland game with Dorsey and see if Harrison breaks 150.

And I don't think there's a chance they even sniff a championship before 2012, which leaves them plenty of time to address the NT and linebacking positions.

Wow.

These were my exact thoughts...

If I could give you more rep, I would.

You swallow alot of your own mist don't you. That wasn't a question! You're so intelligent.......:facepalm:



Get over yourself man!


PhilFree:arrow:

I agree with this, 100% We also need playmakers on this team. Do you think Wes Welker is a part-time player?

No I agree with you OTW. I was and still am pissed we ignored our Front 7 but with 2 picks in the 2nd round I thought like most people did we would have grabbed one of the playmakers at the WR position, like Tate or Benn. They chose McCluster which after watching this guy I think it was probably a good choice. And whoever we drafted as WR they would have been the #3 probably to begin with anyway.

ROFL

Wow...

I bet you if we put this thread on ghost mode and no one knew who was posting what and we made Hamas guess who each poster was...he'd be guessing a lot of Dane's posts in this thread were mine and he'd be all over them telling him how stupid he is and how he doesn't know shit about shit!

Sure, KR and WR3 were a need. Needs that can and should be addressed in much later rounds, especially when 1st round talent falls to you at positions of much more desperate need.

You keep saying that, while ignoring the other 5-8 players I've mentioned for the past 48 hours.

The draft couldn't have fallen any better for us. The BPA was either a NT, ILB or OLB at every pick in the 2nd round. Instead, we came away with part-timers/special teamers.

Because kick returners win championships.

LMAO This could be the best mult in the history of Chiefsplanet.

The comparisons to Welker have to stop. So ridiculous.

What kills me are the people that defend the McCluster pick by saying we're going to be in 3-wide the majority of the time. Then defend the Moeaki pick by saying we're going to be in a 2 TE set most of the time.

That's some fuzzy math.

You're telling me that Koa Misi, as one example, wouldn't have been a playmaker for this team? We have no pass rush.

Daryl Washington? Our ILB's are pathetic.

Those are just two examples, there are many more.

Well, I was just as surprised as you and few others that they didn't take the defensive help that was available when they drafted. But that doesn't make them "wrong" for going a different direction.

They hired a new DC, brought in Smith to help at the nose, along with Berry and Lewis at safety. Javon Belcher will be in his second year, Studebaker his third, and Mays his second as a full time starter.

I think they believe that all of these players will be improved not only by coaching and more talent but by experience as well. I also believe they'll pick up some younger players at the 53 cut down, as teams try to slip guys through waivers onto the practice squad (the Steelers for instance took THREE ILB's this year).

I'm neutral on these moves. The Chiefs desperately needed playmakers and they needed help up the middle on defense. Only time will tell if they made the right decision but I'm not going to go all mental proclaiming they ****ed up again this year.

And I like the fact that they acquired a guy that could score from basically any offensive skill position.

that's the point though...

Mecca and Hamas (with a hint of OTWP) do it every single year...

There is never going to be a draft...EVER AGAIN...where the Chiefs take their guys every round...

It's not going to happen...

They'll continue to read the same projections they read from the same people every year...and vastly overrate some guys just like everyone does...and then when the Chiefs are on the clock they'll take their McCluster's and Arenas' and draft the way the drafturbators used to be all over Carl about (drafting by BPA rather than drafting for need)...

It's so funny to me that these guys are so upset about us not taking a NT or an ILB when three years ago it was all about taking the BPA and the Chiefs would never be good because all Carl does is draft for need rather than taking the best players on the board...

I have no doubt in my mind the Chiefs took their #1 guy when they drafted McCluster AND Arenas...

All I know is...there were huge ??? around guys like Crabtree, Maclin, Harvin, etc... last year...playmakers in college not translating to the pro game...

Well...

McCluster is going to be a flat out stud...and Arenas is going to step in from day 1 with Eric Berry and make our secondary a strength for the first time in a LONG time...and if he provides something like Devin Hester provided for the Bears for a few years in the return game...that pick is all sorts of WIN...

we added three players that gives our offense some serious potential (McCluster/Moeaki/Asomoah)...we have tremendous depth in the return game now...and we added a corner who, like Flowers, would have definitely been drafted higher had he been taller and ran a little better...Arenas' track record in college was very impressive.

How is it ridiculous if they are used in the same fashion? Both are small, fast, with good hands.

You're right! He can be so much more.



PhilFree:arrow:

Gosselin had Moeaki has his #48 overall player in his top 100...

So basically what you are saying is that you're perfectly fine with them repeating what you've ripped them for in the past.

Last year, they ignored our biggest needs in an offensive heavy draft. They thought the OL would be just fine.

That worked out great.

This year, they ignored our biggest needs in a defensive heavy draft, even though the league seemed hell-bent on making sure we got a superstar OLB/ILB/NT in the 2nd round. They think the front seven will be just fine.

Forgive me for thinking they know WTF they are doing.

Again, had there not been a laundry list of impact players at positions of desperate need available, I could live with a couple of luxury picks.

But there were no fewer than 8-10 guys that were borderline R1 talent that would have made a full-time impact on our biggest deficiencies.

And we passed, because Pioli thinks he's smarter than the rest of the league.

He's a trend setter - KR's win championships.

Yeah he could be Devin Hester...or he could be Allen ****ing Rossum.

He could be Wes Welker...or he could be Roscoe Parrish.

He could be Dallas Clark...or he could be Benjamin Watson.

Stop projecting elite players onto our draftpicks....

Your post would make a lot more sense if Pioli DID draft BPA. This was not a BPA draft. Outside of the 1st round it was far, far from a BPA draft.

I'm going to stop reading here, since you're apparently not bothering to read what I'm posting.

This isn't about "my guys."

I've listed 8-10 guys that would have been better picks, filled a greater need and made more of an impact than the two we took in R2.

Of that list, the ONLY guys I've championed at any point in the offseason was Daryl Washington and Taylor Mays. And at the time I was pimping Mays, NO ONE thought he'd fall to 49.

Had he taken the BPA, we wouldn't be upset.

The BPA at both picks in R2 were either OLB, ILB or NT.

Value met need, and we passed.

So, how is you and others projecting them as crap any different?

The other side of the coin is that the complainers are projecting busts out of the players taken and projecting greatness out of players who fell to the 5th round.

Why should one side be free to go over-the-top, but not the other?

Because they think they post louder then the rest of the Planet. LOL


PhilFree:arrow:

I'm hardly going over the top and declaring them total busts. Allen Rossum had a 10+ year career.

The elite player projection thing is just stupid and used to justify the selections. It's highly unlikely.

Exactly. I never said McCluster would be 'elite', I just said he looks to be used like Welker. No one knows. Its a crap shoot.

Who's projected McCluster or Arenas to be busts? I haven't seen it.

What I have seen is people upset that Pioli apparently values part timers, special teamers and TE's more than players at core positions. And that he apparently has a short memory, because we drafted a nickle CB, KR and traded up for a TE just LAST YEAR.

Sure, a KR is nice to have, but is it more important than shoring up the worst run defense in the league when there are highly graded ILB's and NT's available?

This board universally wanted them to plug the gaping holes in our front seven, and the board fell perfectly for them to do so.

Funny how just a day later, people are fine with not filling those holes and taking luxury picks instead.

What I ripped them for last year was taking a ****ing 5 tech at #3 overall and being WRONG about him as a player. If they had taken Harvin, Matthews, Sanchez, Oher, Crabtree or Cushing at #3, it may have looked like a reach but in reality, it wasn't.

I also ripped them for taking another 5 tech in round three, taking a CB in round four and so on, while ignoring real needs at WR and offensive line. And while I was correct about Louis Murphy in the 4th, Urbick's been a disaster in Pittsburgh and can't get on the field.

In 2010, they addressed needs with playmakers. They may not be the needs that you felt need to be addressed at the time, but they did need to be addressed.

The only offensive playmaker on the roster was Jamal Charles. Now, they've added a guy like McCluster which can score from any skill position. If they had "reached" for a guy like Linval Joseph, I would have been fine with that but at least they addressed a position of need with a playmaker.

They took Arenas, who Gruden described as a Ronde Barber like player (having seen him in high school and the SEC) over a fatass like Cody or an ILB like Washington, Lee, etc. Again, they addressed a position of need (nickel back) and the return game, getting the most dynamic returner in the nation. I'd have been fine with Lee or Washington but Arenas addressed two needs in one player.

As I stated in a different thread, I think that Pioli is approaching this team as a complete rebuilding project and he's going to put HIS type of players on this football team. I think it's going to be 2012 at the earliest before they're ready to consistently compete for championships, but I think I at least understand the method behind his apparent madness.

Whether it works or not, time will tell.

This is laughable bullshit ROFL

It really is.

Reaper...NEWSFLASH...your best available player isn't Scott Pioli's best available player...

Just because you have "Player X" as your best available doesn't mean Scott Pioli, or any other GM, has that same draft board...

In fact, I find it hilarious that you amateur draft "experts" don't understand that SIMPLY concept...

CLEARLY...the Chiefs were drafting the best on their board when they were on the clock...

Mel Kiper, Walter Football, Hamas Jenkins...just because their BPA is a NT...doesn't mean he's the BPA on the Chiefs board.

You guys are colossal morons and you prove it every single draft weekend.

I obviously can't speak for Pioli... but we don't know if that's the case. Some of these guys clearly use a way different board than everyone else. The whole Parcells tree seems to have their own ideas... Bill Polian is out there in left field playing a different game most of the time, etc.

Get out that Koolaid Pioli pic because that's what we're back too, and stunningly we are right back to the same uneducated posters screaming "Pioli" as if he were unquestionable, it's last year all over again.

I'm not fine with it, I've come to terms with it. I've been a fan since the early 80s. I was pissed 2 days ago. I'm over it. Staying pissed about it isnt healthy and isnt gonna change things. Just trying to find a silver lining...

Yep just like you defended that giant turd of a draft from last year.

I defended it, too.

Fool me once....

You know what's funny?

EVERYONE sees it...

Except Chiefs fans.

This team is going to be and up and coming team and this draft...PROVED to me...Scott Pioli will be a great GM for this franchise.

He's building a team exactly how he sees fit...first 5 picks...high character guys, team captains, LIVE AND BREATH football...and all have tremendous ability.

For years everyone is so excited about Gosselin's mocks and his top 100...and we landed 5 guys who were in the what, top 60?

I have a great, great, great feeling about this draft class.

Hey, its Debbie Downer. Excuse me, I need some Prozac before I start reading your posts...:)

....LOL......"This".....LOL..


I see why they don't like you.....


PhilFree:arrow:

Drafting untalented team captains doesn't win games, we drafted a safety who ran a slower time than some of the OT's, there are great character people that post here, I don't want them suiting up for the Chiefs.

Scott Pioli is building a boyscout troupe, that's nice, it doesn't win games.

Of course reading Hootie's posts are always humorous because the guy would literally defend any pick.

Because he's more uneducated about this topic than even you are?

I don't think I defended it at all...

Last year...

I was 100% on the...

Well, I have no idea, these aren't exciting picks but Pioli is the executive of the decade fence...

and we still have no idea whether or not that draft class is a failure yet anyways...depends on Jackson and Cassel...so far, off to a bad start.

But at no point was I like "wow, this class is going to be great!" last year...at NO point.

This year...wow...I feel 100% confident we had a MONSTER draft...

Berry and Asomoah are locks...McCluster and Arenas have game changing ability and tremendous track records...and if their game transitions into the pro game...wow. Right there. We win...

Anything we get from Moeaki or our 5th round picks is just gravy.

I'm not sure that they were even doing that, unless they limited their board to very specific kinds of players. For instance, Haley talked about KR being not just a need, but a must. Perhaps the Chiefs were limiting their board at times to players with return ability. Perhaps the Chiefs were limiting their board to team captains. I just don't get the sense that Pioli's board took into account a broad swath of players. They seemed to go really specialized for this draft.

Worst front seven in football.

UP AND COMING!

LOOK OUT!

http://www.sportsfanlive.com/roller/...onVsChiefs.jpg

Let's just implode Kansas City Sports... then we can flitter away back into obscurity like Omaha.

Yes, you did.

You spent the entire ****ing draft weekend talking about how Pioli is a GM and we aren't etc etc, hey just like now.

1.) What you claim are luxury picks are obviously not. Anyone who understands football understands that you need tight ends, for example.

2.) I keep getting confused. How does a NT that falls to the 5th round end up being "highly graded"? Who's doing that grading and, if that grade is accurate, why the hell aren't other teams jumping on those players? Rather than bitching at the team for not drafting that future HOFer, perhaps you should be re-evaluating the analysts.

3.) Just to point to a specific player as an example.... Cody was being derided by many here and/or elsewhere for being a big fat player who was too slow, etc... The team that took him will be using him in a 4-3, where his lack of speed and mobility will be less of a problem. How is it suddenly supposed to be a disaster that this kid got passed up by the Chiefs?

4.) You continue to post as if you expect every draft pick to be an instant success in order to avoid bust status. That's clearly not the case. No players busts from the 7th round, just for an easy example. Missing on picks does not prove a team/GM/front office sucks, it just proves that it's the same as every other front office throughout NFL history.

5.) Your opinion on BPA is exactly that. It's opinion, not fact.

Given their track record, I'd be surprised if they had more than 150 guys on their board. Probably less than that.

I hope Eric Berry enjoys tackling, he's gonna be doing a lot of it.

you keep worrying about 40 times...

that's the problem with you and Hamas...

(and Al Davis)...

too much stock in 40 times...this is the NFL, it's not a track meet...

a 4.7 is plenty fast enough to be a great NFL player...it's whether or not they have football instincts and intelligence and work ethic etc. etc. etc.

and we're going to keep seeing it...

and besides...untalented team captains?? Ha.

McCluster/Arenas/Berry/Asomoah...those guys have all the talent in the world.

No wonder people are giving us A's for this draft. It was a great draft for a team that needed playmakers.

Im pretty sure Gosselin rode teh short bus.

but it's not like I was ever once excited about a pick...

shit...the only pick everyone seemed to like was Donald Washington and now everyone already hates the guy...

I wasn't excited about Tyson Jackson. Not one bit. Or Alex Magee...

But I didn't ****ing mope about it and ruin an entire draft weekend for everyone on this board...that's for sure.

But I challenge you to find a post ON DRAFT WEEKEND last year where I said I thought Tyson Jackson was a great pick!

I don't think you'll find one.

I do however, think Berry/McCluster/Arenas/Asomoah and Moeaki were total wins and that this will be a better draft class than the one we had in 2008.

Uneducated?What? LOL

PhilFree:arrow: