After seeing that you know he hated the position he was in. His hands were tied to say the least. I'm not disagreeing with Haley's dismissal, but any coach in the league would've gotten fired with Cassel/Palko at QB. And I really do believe he was starting Palko to say **** you to Pioli because Haley knew he was gone no matter what. Tonight's program really showed us what thought was just speculation before in a lot of areas.

That is taking a shot at Cassel dude lol

Frankly, I don't know. I don't think that was Haley. I imagine it was Pioli. I don't know that the doors were unlocked last week.

I do know that Haley controlled who played, when meetings were held, when the worked out, and how he answered questions.

I don't think that Pioli has handled everything right, but when it comes to their relationship, I believe that Haley was the one who was most responsible for the breakdown.

They are both backup caliber QBs. I'd rather have Thigpen as my backup compared to Cassel.

We would have been better off letting Pioli go. Clark moving into a
Jerry Jones type roll. To make the transition seamless he could have waived Matt Cassel. Then come up with some catchy little phrase like "just win baby". Imagine the action on this board then.

The Niners are frauds?

Is there any place I can watch this online? I missed it and would really like to see it for myself.

"Just bankroll, baby"

God, I can't believe I'm saying this but does anyone else think Todd would have been a better coach under Carl Peterson? King Carl for all his faults seem to let the coaches put their stamp on the team. I'm not saying he is a better GM at all, but I think Haley would have done better.

Marty, Gunther, Vermeil, Herm, each of their teams had the identity of the coach stamped all over it. I don't feel like this was ever a Haley stamped team. In fact the Haley reign was very schizophrenic. I still got the feeling I don't know what kind of coach Haley is and can be.

He was bluntly taking a shot at the Chiefs and passive aggressively taking a shot at Cassel. You could tell. Dude hated Cassel.

That's all speculation. They both likely had a part in it. Todd's volatility and inability to get along with his own coaches would probably suggest that he has a major issue in terms of getting along and building consensus. I see Todd as a control freak, and Pioli, while less volatile, is also a control freak. You put two control freaks together, it wont end pretty...

So did PeeHoli add them or did Haley coach em?

Several members of the media have now reported that the locks came off the doors the day after Haley was fired and Romeo was introduced.

If you "imagine" that it was Pioli who ordered them locked in the first place, then what possible motive could he have for doing a complete 180 immediately after releasing Haley? He's either trying to make it look like it was Haley's fault or he got slapped by Clark and told to shape up or he's gone too.

I bet they will be a lot closer. They are currently 5-8. That projects out to 6-10.

I bet that the Chiefs will be better than 6-10 next year.

No, not really.

"Hey Dick, you want me to draft some other guy, well shove it. Here's Larry Johnson."

And, there it is.... a complete and total lack of objectivity.

I think it was Clark. Pioli didn't look very comfortable in that press conference to me.

Better than 6-10 does not equal closer to a Super Bowl.

You have gone full reerun. How many pro bowls has Tyler Thigpen played in? I understand that hate, but at least be objective.

Arguing who is a better backup is missing the point.

At least Clark thinks so lol.

I understand that, but the Chiefs were what the head coach was at the time where other organizations are what the GM and team basically are at that time. Vermeil said the most important positions on any team are QB, RB, and LT. Carl went out and got those guys for him. What a ****ing sad day when I'm arguing Peterson > Pioli :facepalm: I think I'll go shove a Christmas Tree up my ass.

No shit. By that logic, because of the injuries we should have kept Haley since we were 10-6 last year.

Not saying its true but following the logic.

ROFL

thats whats bein sad brah

Or maybe everyone in the know already knows what Pioli is like, what went down and how Haley was screwed. Maybe Pioli is easing off and letting Romeo be a little more loose with info and "do what he wants" to not only make Haley look worse, but to make himself look better. As it stands, who wants to work under Pioli?

Problem with all of you Haley bashers is you refuse to see that it's not that Haley thought he was smarter than Pioli, which he is, it's that Pioli thought he was smarter than Haley.

Haley constantly made Pioli look bad to his boss. Haley was right about Tyson Jackson, and probably right about who he wanted to take instead(my guess is either a tackle or Raji). Haley was right about Berry, which we learned Haley basically had to jump on the table to get Pioli to draft him.

Everyone was under the impression that Haley "liked" Matt Cassel. Don't think so, just think that he knew Pioli was "tied" to him, so his job was also tied to him. Haley needed to make Cassel work, b/c if he didn't, he would lose his job, b/c Pioli wasn't getting him another one.

Haley was upset about some of the guys we let go in FA. (wonder if that was Shaun Smith) and the fact that Pioli wasn't getting him the kind of talent he asked for. He wanted a RT, Pioli got him a LT(Gaither) who either couldn't, or wouldn't play RT. So to spite Pioli, Haley played Richardson instead. I'm sure as soon as Moeaki went down, Haley wanted to bring in some TE's, and that might be why he let O'Connell continue to fail for so long.

Sure Haley wanted a new QB, not a rookie, and Pioli brought him Palko. So what did Haley do? Showed Pioli just how good a guy he thought was good enough was.

I think Haley is a phenomenal talent evaluator. Pioli just thought he was better.

JD is delusional. Haley won't coach again, He looks so bad, blah blah blah. Haley was dealt a crap hand and everyone in the league knows it. Everyone except Clark Hunt. No one will hold this against him. How could they? I wouldn't. If you're done dirty, sometimes you gotta do dirty.

I know, really looks bad on Crennel ehh?

You gone truefan on us? Drinking Pioliaide? Pioli is the problem. Haley was our best chance at getting out of this stink.

I believe it was Victor Hugo who said, "There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come." Oh, how wrong ol' Vic was ...

Sadly, "an idea that just won't friggin' go away" kicks "idea whose time has come"'s ass.

FAX

I don't. I think it's telling that he holds it against them for not asking tough questions and making Pioli's goal of controlling the situation easier.

"Todd, what's with the beard?!" or "Why the old hat?" When they should have been asking "Why do you still insist on going with Matt Cassel when it's obvious he's not an NFL QB?" or "How do you feel about the lack or activity in free agency, not the lack of big moves per say, but the situation it's left the team in with regards to the (safety/QB) position(s) not that (Berry/Cassel) has gone down?" Anything. Any ****ing thing to put some pressure on this organization to succeed.

No. When in doubt, always blame the guy on top. Especially since he made the hire.

I don't think Haley was a poor fit for the team. I just think Pioli is so close-minded that he thinks there is only one way to do things. Here's what we do know. In almost every single way, Pioli did things exactly as he did in New England. Closed door policy, coaches saying nothing, secrecy, etc.... Same exact 2-gap defense, same Charlie Weis offense, same focus on role players/leaders/cheapness, and a bunch of players who played for the Patriots (including Cassel, the most important guy on the field).

Pioli's the boss. But this entire team model reeks of Pioli. And the biggest mistakes in personnel, apart from Palko, are owned by Pioli. When a guy gets his way all the time, he's the guy most at fault. You can say Haley needed to be tougher in fighting off Pioli, but I think that's a tough battle to win.

Pretty good post right there.

So you are judging him on how he acted when he knew he was gonna be fired as the scapegoat and not on what he did as a coach?

Haley couldn't have done a better job with this young roster in terms of uniting them for a common goal. Up until these last few weeks, this was a VERY cohesive team and that almost all had to do with Haley and how he coached them. The asshole and the guy who played bags and went to movies.

Im glad the mods finally got it right.

SenselessChiefsFan is absolutely spot on.

Senseless, please go ahead and redirect yourself to www.chiefscoalition.com for further posts.

Your insight will be appreciated over there.

I don't know the answer to that. What I do know is that Peterson would have built the system around Haley and would have given Haley a ton of say in what players he wanted on his team. Granted, he would never let Haley hire assistant coaches outside of his tree...

Peterson was the complete opposite of Haley. He was too accommodating of what his coaches wanted (that is, until Herm came into town and he somehow became stubborn).

Too much logic........must resist........can't blame Pioli or bathroom door gets locked again.....

ROFL

FAX

Cassel?

I mean look at the rest of the roster (if healthy) and the improvement Haley got from his players here across the board....

Cassel is gonna get a lot more people fired unless he is cut or traded to some dumbass team willing to give up a 6th or 7th rounder for him.

I would LOVED to have seen Haley be able to coach this team with a good quarterback...I dont even think he would have needed a great one, or even top 5...just good.

What he got from Cassel in 2010 was as close to magic as Ive seen in quite some time in the NFL.

I fear there's a lot of pep rally in Mr. SenselessChiefsfud's ancestry.

FAX

Pretty sure you mean Peterson was the complete opposite of PIOLI.

And he got stubborn with Herm because Herm wanted to blow things up and go young. It's hard to blow everything up and still put butts in the seats.

So now you're call Cassel a pro bowl QB? B/c how many QB's in front of him couldn't play due to injury, surgery, or oh yeah, playing in the ****ing superbowl? Cassel sux. Thigpen sux. Both backups. No need to talk about it.

Yes, Haley did control who played, mostly. He can only choose from the talent he is given though. It seems he has a case of "How do you expect me to cook the meal when someone else is buying the groceries" itis. Playing Richardson was as much a **** you as was playing Palko.

The fact that you acknowledge that you believe when meetings were held and when the team worked out as problems, and insist that Crennel mentioning them weren't shot at Haley is ridiculous. Just duh.

You honestly believe Todd had full control of how he answered questions and had no reason to fear any kind of consequences? Honestly? Even after the long history of Pioli talking over Haley. In the initial presser, Pioli talked and talked and talked, and Todd only got a chance when directly addressed. Then of course there was the article by J.Whit about how Pioli talked and talked and talked and didn't even give Haley a chance to answer questions directed at him while at dinner with J.Whit? This guy was no problem whatsoever. None. Haley had no reason to resent Pioli. none.

Also, do you really think that Haley couldn't get along with HIS coaches? Seems to me that Crennel was "pushed" on him and he was mostly okay with that, but wanted no part of Weis, and that is Haley's fault? Seems to me that Pioli said he was giving Haley complete control of his staff, Scott would just have to sign off on it. Instead though, Pioli decided to call Haley dumb and proceeded to try and show him that the Patriot way is the only way. Then, of course, this offseason, Pioli wanted to force McDaniels on Haley, but Haley would have no part in that. Haley had to hire someone, Pioli wasn't going to let him run his own offense, so Haley promoted Muir.

That's accurate. Don't get me wrong. CP was loyal to a fault. He listened to Vermeil on Sims and kept Lynn Stiles in office longer than he should have. The problem was that under CP, coaches pretty much controlled the personnel process. You have to have a coach who knows what he wants, and a GM who can use his expertise to get that kind of player.

In KC, we've never really had both. Coaches got everything they wanted under Peterson, and coaches get nothing they want under Pioli.

Pope
Breaston
Long
Urbhan
Jones
Brown
Palko

That's a list that kinda disproves your statement, buddy.

I think you should take Breaston off that list. He will be fine with a real QB.

Its a list of guys that Pioli signed for Haley.

Breaston is absolutely one of those guys.

I bet he feels ripped off after seeing Haley get fired and after signing here for his "prime years contract"

Oh I see. I thought it was just failures of guys that Haley wanted to come in. I think Breaston will be cool with it if we get a real QB. Its not like we are the Browns. We may not be GB, but with a QB, we have a lot of talent on both sides of the ball. Plus he got the money he wanted, I am sure he will be alright.

It doesn't disprove my statement. How many of those players required any kind of real investment. Breaston is the only one. Those guys combined, minus Breaston, didn't come with picks and probably combine for the salary of Jamaal Charles.

Matt Cassel/Vrabel? 2nd round pick and $60+M.
Romeo Crennel - forced a complete shift in defensive scheme
Charlie Weis - dictated the offense

Everything about the scheme was Pioli. Haley was allowed to add some supplementary pieces. That's like letting your boss pick your house, but you feel good because you were allowed to buy a sofa.

LMAO

Whatever. Dude should have had the smarts not to hook up with a shit QB for his prime years.

In these kinds of ChiefsPlanet discussions, more often than not, somebody takes black and another takes white, or so it seems. Actually, there are many shades of gray. That's just the way it is in real life.

It's unreasonable to assume that Haley and Dr. Evil had a conflict over every, single player or never agreed on anything, ever. Instead, it make far more sense that they occasionally agreed on players. For example, it's perfectly logical that they would both see the need in beefing up the WR corp in order to help Cassel, and this would easily explain Baldwin and Breaston.

It also makes sense that they would disagree over other guys and, in cases like that, Dr. Evil would stick it to Haley by giving him the worst player possible without violating league rules and signing a girl or a one-armed Zeta Reticulite who got left behind after leaving the spaceship for just a second to take a pee.

However, based on the more dependable sources that are reporting on this deal recently, it appears that Dr. Evil discounted Haley's potential contribution to the franchise and undermined him at every possible turn. And, if that's true, Dr. Evil must be held accountable and that means only one thing; being drowned in a vat of boiling rat urine.

FAX

Forget CP, thats how people handle real life. Black and white so no thought is needed. There is plenty of blame to go around. We just need to hope that the guy still here makes up for it with the right moves.

Oh well the guy really isn't worth his contract.

He did get a lot of money for a slot reciever. If we get a real QB, along with keeping Bowe and Baldwin improving, its only going to make Breaston that much more dangerous. Running 3 wide with a healthy Moeaki will either give Charles more space or let the recievers have a lot of room to work.

No qb, no future. Its as simple as that. Keyshawn said it, if you all had a real qb, you wouldnt be sitting next to me.

Watched the interview last night at a sports bar during dinner. What was with his shirt hanging out the front of his pants? He looked liked his Mom rushed to dress him for the school bus.

Thought Haley was pretty damn good, took a few subtle and a couple of not so subtle jabs, the guys asked him good questions and showed they thought he got a bum deal, and much of what he said we all pretty much knew: the HC always goes first when a GM makes bad personnel decisions.

If Pioli insists on sticking with Cassel we will lose another year waiting and then Pioli will lose his job. That really sucks...........

I can't understand why Pioli would not want Haley to run the offense, what with all the success he's had in 2009 and 2011.

And, the defense was set in stone the minute they drafted Tyson Jackson, according to you..... so what difference does it make whether it is Clancy or Romeo? I mean, other than the coordinator being effective.

To use your analogy, Haley wanted to buy a crack house filled with hookers and a meth lab, but Pioli wanted to buy on a different street.

To make up for it, Pioli let Haley bring in a couple of cars on blocks to 'spruce up the place'.

Now, as for the merits of your story.

#1) Gailey was still here, and Haley couldn't work with him, so he was fired. Kind of disproves the whole things being forced on Haley.

#2) Crennel was their first choice as DC, but he wasn't up to it in Haley's first year.

Do I think that Weis and Crennel hires were strongly encouraged? Yes. Do I think that they were forced on him? No. Do I think that Haley had any better alternatives that Pioli refused? No.

Heck, look at this year. McDaniels was available as OC. Weis had just quit, and the team still had Cassel under center.

If you are right, I believe that McDaniels would have come to KC. If Pioli was the control freak that you say, then why wouldn't McDaniels have been forced on Haley?

LOL he took a shot at KC media

Have we really forgotten that Elvis Grbac was Peterson's Cassel? It would have been the same dynamic as Peterson was into saving his ass as GM and Haley still would have been a lunatic ego rookie with nothing in his past to back up the chest poof.

It MAY have taken a bit longer to go "Boom" but that is it.

Tells me that there are at LEAST two people here not suckling off of Haley.

Because Clark told Pioli to let the leash off? We've already had several reports from local media guys that Haley wasn't the reason for tight security. PR people stepping in when Haley was talking to reporters away from the press conferences. Haley rolling his eyes and saying "that's what you get here. They'll (the chiefs) bring out the shock collars if you don't do things their way.

Keep thinking this all you want. People involved with the team, plus local media who have access to the team have all said differently. But go ahead and believe what your mind tells you.

smart guy, this Keyshawn Johnson.

Multiple sources have confirmed, one of which was allowed in to observe the team for a book, that Weis was in fact a Pioli hire and that Haley wanted nothing to do with it.

Has also been confirmed by multiple sources that Pioli wanted to force McDaniels onto Haley last offseason. I'm guessing that this time, when Haley said no, Clark listened. Especially after what he'd done to the Broncos...

Senseless is blinded by hopeful homerism right now. He doesn't want to believe that Pioli is the problem, b/c Poili's still here, and that would hurt his faith in the Chiefs.

Not true. When Haley AND Pioli was still here, I blamed Haley.

Pioli doesn't choose who plays. I have seen too many examples of Haley being stubborn and inflexible.

Please put links to those sources. Especially the one where Pioli tried to force McDaniels on Haley.

Oh, and I wonder why McDaniels is rumored to be a possibility if Clark stepped in and said no to him last year after what happened in Denver.

The logic is lacking in that argument.

Make sure and remove the stand and go trunk first, too much resistance the other way and the branches will break.

Todd's wife = Semi MILF

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u93G568DK-Q

McDaniels being considered is mostly speculation. Besides that, the big reason Clark would say no is b/c Pioli already tried to force Weis on Haley and it didn't work out. Why would forcing a different guy on him result in anything different.

Haley's gone this time numb nuts. The only thing potentially holding Pioli back from hiring McDaniels is how Chiefs fans would accept the move. He could very well assume that a year has been enough time to remove some of the stigma attached to McDaniels. Besides that, he's already in hot water, might as well do it his own way, either look like a genius or go out in style.

How about that Karen Kornacki? ROFL

Completely and utterly misinformed. As usual.

Clark Hunt himself said publicly he asked Haley to consider keeping Gailey.

If you are Haley and were just hired to your first coaching job by a guy that had multiple Exec of the Decade awards, are you going to start it off by telling him to tell the owner no?

You don't live in the real world.

How could we possibly know?

She redefines butthurt.LMAO

His PR coach.

Pioli, telling him what to say. :)

Pioli went into KC bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, and within 3 years realized he was stuck between a cheap rock (ownership) and a controlling hard place (Pioli).

Let's say you get hired as a manager of a store. You go in all excited. Then you find out the store ownership isn't spending enough money to let you hire quality employees, and you're stuck with halfwits and malcontents you have to try to run a business with. Then you find out that the Regional Manager overrides you on all decisions. You find yourself a puppet in between ineffective and miserly Upper Management, and the Regional Manager who micromanages and controls. You realize you're not doing a whole lot creatively except trying to control the minimum-wage employees. So you check out mentally. Can't really blame the guy if that's how it went down. (And if you get fired by said company, but realize that other companies in the same area will probably hire you in time and give you another shot, you'd probably be relieved and well-rested and better-appearing too. In his view, he was freed, not fired.)

Well, he must be reeruned, then. He had the opportunity to go work for maybe the richest owner in the NFL, but picked KC, apparently not thinking to ask whether or not he'd be given enough money to work with.

Hell Yeah! Dude way outkicked his coverage.