The Rams invested a number 2 overall pick in Jason Smith and spent a high 2nd on Saffold. It would be a collosal waste of resources and they might as well change thier team name to the St. Louis Sacofpoos.

The Rams can trade likely with the Browns and get two first round picks. The key is that they only have to move back 2 spots and can still get Blackmon or Kalil.

Then with that other first round pick they can get a wr or tackle, whichever one they didn't take. They can get those two players and pay them less than they would have to pay Bowe.

While I do think Bowe is a great wr, it makes no sense financially for the Rams, who don't have any cap space.

Bowe is a good receiver. I would sign him to a huge contract yesterday.

But is he in the same class as Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, or Megatron? Absolutely not. And that has nothing to do with the QB. When I see Bowe take over games the way they do, maybe. Statistically, yes, he matches up. But he's not in the same league as those guys.

I'd get the job over you, given that your plan is to buy expensive players when your cap is already tight and to trade away 10-year prospects so my rebuilding team can win today.

He would be if he didn't have garbage QBs his entire career.

Those guys have really good qbs throwing them the ball. It's hard for Bowe to take over a game when every other ball is high or low.


Look at what Fitz has done since Warner left.

When you have a franchise QB with an injury history, there is nothing wrong with stacking your team with Left Tackles. That's the same garbage mentality that would have the Lions passing up on Megatron because they messed up on Rodgers and Mike Williams.

The Rams absolutely have to upgrade their Left Tackle. It is mission critical. They don't have a ton of money in free agency. So you think you should put Bradford at risk just to save face?

Kalil is a great LT prospect. They could potentially come away with Kalil and the second best wr prospect in the draft in round 1.

It doesn't? ROFL Seriously?

Great, so the rest of thier team can be shit because they have so much invested on the line. If they trade down and grab both of Cleveland's first that would be a bit different.

Bradford hasn't proven enough to be called a franchise QB anyway...I reserve that title for folks who have earned it.

Fitz is doing just fine without Warner. He had one of his most productive seasons last year behind QBs worse than Cassel.

I'm not talking about statistically. I'm talking about... in the playoffs, do I have any confidence that Bowe is going to beat guys like Revis and Asomugah and Champ Bailey consistently? I'm sorry, but I've seen plenty of games where Bowe gets smothered by a very good corner, regardless of QB play. Guys like Randy Moss and TO in their prime, and Fitzgerald and Megatron and Andre Johnson are unguardable, even against the league's best. And that's leaving out the point that while Bowe has QB disadvantages, he also has had enormous advantages for most of his career. Like having Tony Gonzalez draw double and triple teams. Like teams loading 8 in the box and leaving Bowe one-on-one without much outside help.

I like Bowe as a WR. But I think we're being homers if we think he's among the league's elite. He is just a notch below that.

Umm... we all know that a franchise QB is critical for a franchise. Would I invest a shitload to keep my fragile QB on the field and off his back? Every ****ing time.

So did Dwayne Bowe.

We all want Bowe to be at that level. I don't think he will be. I think Fitz and Megatron are just physically better than everyone. I think Johnson is there too but it took him a little longer to figure it out.

I think Bowe is probably a top 5 or 6 wr. Is he a top 3 guy. No, but he doesn't have to be. I think he's a great possesion wr, who can be more with the right qb.

I think he has alot of room to grow.

And teams did load 8 in the box but Bowe didn't seem to get alot of one on ones. His only playoff game he had bracket coverage and a qb who didn't even throw a ball his way.

If he truly was a "franchise QB", we wouldn't be talking about the line would we? He'd get rid of the ball on time and raise the level of his teammates around him. I thought that was the definition of a "franchise QB"?

He had Kevin Curtis to take the pressure off of him in that game and Chris Chambers drawed the coverage away allowing him to grab 15 TD's in a season!!

Huh? That's absolutely reckless. There is no QB in any situation who's going to survive with a LT that gets beat on a regular basis, and can get to the QB before he even has a chance to drop back.

If I have a QB who can be franchise, but has injury history... why in the world would you take that gamble to expect him to make quicker decisions vs. giving him players who can buy him more time?

This absolutely nails it.

Being a notch below elite is still very good. But he just doesn't have the physical makeup to be as good as the elite guys. That's not in any way a knock on Bowe. Again, I'd sign him yesterday to a huge contract.

While the tackles are shaky, Drew Brees' consistent ability to get rid of the football quickly covers up many of Bushrod's flaws\

From an aritcle on the Saints o-line. You don't need a bunch of high end picks to have a good line and a QB with a quick release can make a bad tackle passable for an elite offense.

I think Bowe is close to the elite great line. I think with say Orton at qb, he could be a great wr.


But like zilla said, the top three guys are just physically at another level. Could bowe get there? I dunno maybe. If he doesn't get better qb play no.

My problem is that he puts Blackmon in that category before he even plays a down of football with the men. Bowe produces with shit QB's and he can never be any better than what he is :rolleyes:. Get a real QB in here and he'll put on a show.

I've went back and watched some stuff about Baldwin. I'm really excited about what this guy can become with the right coaching and quarterback. I really really hope we bring Orton back as he throws a really good deep ball.


I think Baldwin has the physical tools to be a fantastic wr. I think he could be Vincent Jackson type deep threat. We need to lock Bowe up tho so Baldwin can be the number 2 for a while to get his legs under him.

I agree PGM. I think Blackmon has the skills and talent but you just never know til it happens.

1 - Drew Brees got injured on a play that almost ended his career
2 - Not every QB is Drew Brees. And shame on you if you call your QB a failure because he isn't Drew Brees.
3 - It is reckless to expect your 3rd year QB to have Drew Brees like instincts that quickly. Even Drew Brees didn't have anything close to Brees like instincts that quickly.
4 - If you have Big Ben or Rodgers, you don't worry much about their health because they've proven they can take a hit. When you have a QB with an injury history, I sure as shit am going to protect him with insurance. Just because I worry the same for Stafford, doesn't make me think any less of him as a franchise QB, and I would absolutely take that baggage.
5 - You're also acting like there is any harm to getting a good Left Tackle. If your QB ends up developing Drew Brees like instincts and has a franchise left tackle, your team is a hell of a lot better. Hell, Brady makes bad receivers look awesome. Are you going to tell me that because Bradford should ideally make bad receivers look good if he's truly franchise, that they should pass up on Blackmon too? C'mon, man. Just because a QB elevates the play of players around him doesn't mean you surround him with shit and force him to make lemonade.

3 high round picks on Left Tackles in 4 years is not how I'd go about building a team. That is all. It's just an opinion. They've already got a number 2 overall pick sucking it up on the right side. Damn, that team has swiss cheese like holes and they've invested a TON in thier o-line in recent years. Franchise also shouldn't be put in front of a QB's name until he's earned it.

As I understood it, the 30% rule was a provision put into the last CBA that only applied to contracts being signed during that CBA's final death knells. It only came into effect once the salary cap had expired, or once the CBA was in its final year, or something to that effect. That's why it suddenly became a big deal around 2010, but nobody had ever heard of it before then.

Now that all the CBA stuff is cleared up, I would think it's a dead issue. I'd go as far to say I'm certain it is, or the 30% rule would have applied to numerous contract extensions that have been signed since the new CBA was ratified. Guys like Tamba, Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, etc. have all gotten new deals coming off their rookie contracts. I don't remember a word about the 30% rule impacting any of those.

If I'm the new GM, I wipe my hands clean. It doesn't matter what mistakes the previous front office made. If they believe Kalil can be a franchise LT, you get him. He is exactly what you need at this stage. The Lions made collossally bad mistakes burning high picks on WRs. Worse than the Rams because, unlike at left tackle, there is a wealth of talent in free agency at the WR position. Imagine if they passed up on Megatron to save face instead of making the right pick.

This place has gone absolutely bonkers with their obsession around building your team as if you're going to have Drew Brees or Tom Brady. To the point where we're talking about passing up on people who can help your QB because the expectation is that your QB should be able to do the job all by himself.

If I have a good enough tackle in Branden Albert and I'm the Rams, then yes, my top priority is WR in the draft. Right now, given that they have horrible options on the roster and no options in free agency, your approach is to walk into 2012 protecting a fragile QB with a horrendous Left Tackle, and then when Bradford gets injured, blame him for not making quicker decisions.

They already have a young, 23 year old left tackle on the roster that they invested a high pick in. It's not like Saffold can't get any better. I don't see whey they HAVE to go left tackle when they have holes all over the place. I've already said multiple times they have invested HEAVILY into the line already, so I'm not saying they can just put bodies out there. The young guys they have may develop into something, but why am I shocked, folks at Chiefs Planet give up on guys all the time.

This, closer to the reality than anything else posted. Bowe would be a surer bet than Blackmon, but that surity comes with a price tag which the past management made sure they could not pay.

So, let me understand this, Brady makes shit receivers look awesome, while there's nothing a good QB can do to help Dwayne Bowe reach another level?

You're talking out both sides of your face.

You give Bowe a Schaub or even a Flacco, guys that can make all the throws, that can "throw their receivers open", then Bowe absolutely can take his game to that next level.

Now, if I thought the Rams had the money under the cap to afford Bowe, and thought that we had the ammo to compete against the Browns to make that move, making that trade wouldn't be a question.

Bottom line, in spite of your ramblings, the only real reason this trade idea doesn't work is money.

How the hell are the ****ing Rams up against cap problems?

You know the organization is poorly ran when you are cap strapped AND have the second overall pick.

I mean really, how is that combination of things even possible?

We have way more talent than them and have half the payroll and won a lot more games.

I know they have a ton of money invested in the O-line and it's still shitty...

Rams just hired les Snead.

That's an interesting point.

In researching teh 30% rule, I didn't find anything that discussed players that might be affected by this rule in 2012.

It was all 2010 add 2011.

Since he worked for Thomas Dimitroff in Atlanta, does thi smean teh Patsification of the league continues?

I hadn't really thought of this and it was brought up in the draft forum, but if we draft Poe, could he play a Ngata role and just play all over the dline?

Poe would be a pretty big project for that high of a pick.

He is a small school kid.

I think he will be available in the second round unless he hits a bunch of homeruns in workouts, during the combine and in interviews.

One thing is for sure, if we do pick him without a trade down...Romeo must have fell in love with him and that would be reason enough to be excited because Romeo has been the gold standard for 3-4 DL play for almost 30 years.

If we could come out of the first 3 rounds with


Richardson, Poe, and Massie it would be a grand slam.

Overpaying a free agent like this is fine. Because the alternative is to spend nothing and leave a huge gap at WR. But saying you want that veteran instead of a younger, cheaper draft pick at a pick like #4 where there's a high probability you're going to get a very good starter for 10 years? That's something else entirely. There's a lot more to this than money. Especially for a team like the Rams who are 2-3 years away from being good. This reeks of a desperate team trying to win now, not one trying to methodically build a franchise.

And Bowe is more than likely going to be grossly overpaid. He's a good receiver, but the fact is he's going to get Larry Fitzgerald money when he isn't Larry Fitzgerald. On pure talent alone, he doesn't measure up to those dollars. But there are other limiting factors. We haven't seen Bowe make big plays in really big situations on a consistent basis. He hasn't measured up very well consistently against elite corners. To this day, regardless of the QB, none of us knows for sure if he's a guy I want to be throwing the ball to in the 2 minute drill in a playoff game. Does he ever give you that feeling? Maybe that's purely a problem with the QB. That's a lot of money to assume the QB is the only problem there.

If we pick up Solilai, then Poe would be a phenomenal project to develop next to him. If the Chiefs don't pick up Solilai, then you're right, may want to draft a guy who might be more NFL ready right away.

What's wrong with you lately, zilla?

You think Bowe is gonna get a deal even in the same ballpark as Fitzgerald?

Not a chance. I'd bet his deal will be closer to half of that amount than the full amount...in fact, I doubt he signs long term till mid season 2012...once he sees we have solified the quarterback position...I would do exactly that. Franchise tag.

Which brings me to the next post.

If we sign Soliai, our NTs next year better damn well be he and Powe...if we spend a first or second on a guy like Poe and flush Powe...that will be disappointing.

In short, if we sign Soliai...our DL is a finished product. Not a work in progress in need of another significant investment.

Especially when we have some big needs in other areas.

I really like what I've seen of this Massie kid.

He could definitely be a target for us in the second and third round and could probably start right away and play at a pretty high level.

I'd like to know more about him, but what I've found out so far is very impressive.

He would probably keep O.cities neighbor off the field, though.

Eh my neighbor moved out. I'm done with him, he didn't say bye and kept the wife's cookie container, that we gave him full of chocolate chip cookies.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Amon Gordon. He's a free agent isn't he? He played well and would be a great backup to Soliai.

True.

2011 NTs:

Gregg
Gordon
Powe

2012 NTs:

Soliai
Gordon
Powe

I sure hope so. But again, if I'm the Chiefs, I pay Bowe a lot, even if it's overpayment.

If I'm the Rams, that's a much different story. They need to win later more than they do win now. And I'm not going to give up young picks to bring in a guy like Bowe.

IMO you only bring Gordon back if you've given up on Powe or we don't get anyone else as a starter.

Larry Fitzgerald had a phenominal post season with Kurt Warner getting him the ball.

His production, overall, hasn't suffered substantially since Warner retired, but he's not making the same big plays that he did with Warner, because the QBs aren't egtting him the ball accurately and on time the way that Wardner did.

Andre Johnson was a vurtual non factor in the Texans postseason.

To suggest that a real NFL calibre QB wouldn't have an impact on Bowe's performance is burying your head in your ass.

I think Bowe would put up a monster year, having a full season of Orton.

Does anyone here know Sam Mellinger or Adam Teicher personally? Maybe ask them to clarify the 30% rule and anything else that's going on in free agency right now wrt to any rules? You know pretend to be actual reporters from a bygone era.

Why? You carry 3 nose tackles.

As far as the roll over cap $ goes, allowing the Chiefs to be 30 million over the actual cap this year, what happens the next year? If the Chiefs signed a FA with the extra 30 million, they would still have to shed that to get under the cap the following year right? Basically, I am asking if this 30 million is only allowed for one year. That would make sense, and kind of makes you use it on 1 year contracts I would think.

If you wanted to bring in a free agent on a long term deal, you could set him up with easily attainable performance bonuses that hit in that first year, or perhaps a huge roster bonus that gets paid if he's on the roster the first week of the season.

I would guess there's a number of imaginable ways to structure ot so the big hit in this year.

What would you guys think about throwing some serious cash at Mario Williams?

Gotta be very careful on what type of person you do this with, though.

Hand that check to the wrong guy and all you did was buy some problems.

I would have no problem going that route with Carr, though.

It depends on what we can do with the other positions. If we aren't spending on a QB, have gotten the OL and NT as well as resigning our guys and have extra money I am willing to do it although I do believe in Houston.

Who knows, if we get outbid on the OL FA's, don't get Soliai, and resign Carr and Bowe thats not a bad choice at all. I don't think you could use the extra 30 on him unless the contract was front-loaded like crazy.

With all this money and people out there it gets you thinking, although with this team thats probably a perfect way to be dissapointed.

B/c dumbass. If a 6th rounder doesn't claim the backup position by year #2, it's obvious he won't develop and you get rid of him. ****, how many times do I need to tell you?

He was on his way for 200 against that brokedick Bailey....before getting hurt out in Pile High in the season ender.

If Bowe can catch 15 touchdowns with Matt Cassel as his quarterback, is it crazy to think he could get 20...even with a guy like Orton?

I think that could be an attainable goal.

But only 2 are active.

**** that.

Powe will be a good player. Its really unfair to talk about dumping him before his second year when his first was cut back because of the lockout and the fact that we had two vet NTs out there that played well all year.

He plays one of the positions that fans and coaches need to display patience with.

Quarterback
Corner
DL
Wideout

It's not like the guy is a running back/linebacker that typically steps right into the action and plays at a high level...he plays a position that requires not only a big jump in physical competition, but also in the mental part of the game.

Blocking schemes in the NFL are far more advanced than that in the SEC.

If you don't understand how the center and guards are trying to handle you and make adjustments to better protect your gaps, you end up getting blown off the ball with consistency and your linebackers and secondary suffer for it because generally those guys key off the nose.

Jason Smith is dogshit, absolute trash. That #2 overall they spent on Smith is a sunk cost and simply not worth worrying about anymore.

The Rams are going to go as far as Bradford can take him and right now Bradford is getting abused. Kalil would essentially be like drafting a new franchise QB in Bradford since he's been completely vitiated by the failures of their O-Line.

I think Blackmon's probably a slightly better pick for them, but Kalil would certainly be a good one as well.

Great point, thats what keeps being willfully overlooked by some.

He's been a 1000+ guy for QB's a lot worse than Orton, with a QB that can hit him in stride for yac more often than not, instead of him constantly having to pull off clown show catches on poor throws... he can be one of the very best imo.

The right thing for them is to move down to #4 and take a linemen with that pick and use the profit pick on a linemen, too.

I'd spend in free agency on the OL, too.

Maybe even take a shot at Gaither.

Everyone knew that Bradford could be damn good, but that you were almost required to put a brick wall in front of him for him to display the accuracy and timing in his throws that he was able to show in college.

I think the kid has a chance to be Troy Aikman good, but not if he keeps getting hit and having to severly rush his throws.

I'd give them our #11 pick right now for him and they could take RG3 and get a quality receiver for him to throw to at 11.

RG3 could probably mask a lot of the problems that line has where Bradford really can't.

Nothing is ever that simple.

Yes, Bowe puts up good numbers statistically with a bad QB. But again, my concern continues to be... is this is a guy who is in an elite class when it comes to "I have a big game. I need you to take over in the 4th quarter." Do you realize that about half of his yards and TDs in 2010 came out of 3 games? (Denver, Jacksonville, and Tennessee). In the other 13 games of the season, he had about 600 yards and 8 TDs. That's good, but it's not anywhere close to elite. Is this a guy I'm comfortable matching up against the Ravens in a playoff game? To put together 3 or 4 consecutive great playoff performances?

We are making a huge assumption by saying he disappears in big games because of his QB, but what if it's just that he's not elite enough to consistently beat elite corners?

That's why I say he's not in the same league as the elite guys like Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson. I know that there is no corner that can stop him and in the 4th quarter, I know they can take over games. I don't know the answer to that with Bowe yet. My guess is, he doesn't have the freakish talent those guys have to ever make that step to elite status. I think his ceiling is a lot lower than people are claiming. I think a good QB is going to make Bowe look like a God against bad teams. I just wonder if he can do it in games where he need him most.

Doesn't he play the same position as Hali?

Not just that. First, we have Justin Houston as our second pass rusher. Second, he's too big to be a prototypical 3-4 OLB.

I read there are over 600 free agents this year. That is unheard of. There is no reason for the Chiefs not to be active this off season.

Just thought I would share this site for those of you like me and need to an idiot-friendly site to keep track with what is going on with the FA on our team...

Easy to follow...

http://www.macsfootballblog.com/p/20...ee-agents.html

I don't give a **** who is better than him.

I really don't.

The way Baltimore defended him in that playoff game was th screaming "you don't have anyone else and even if you did, your quarterback doesn't know it"

It wasn't a case of "Bowe can't beat a coverage corner" it was "almost no receiver can beat bracket coverage when his qb is matt Cassel"

Baltimore basically dedicated a corner and safety to Bowe on every single play and said "beat us with somebody else" and when Charles got hurt it was basically over.

I'd be willing to bet that Bowe (with a full year of Orton or someone better than Orton) would have a bunch of career years and would challenge some all time single season records.

I made this observation last year when the lockout pushed free agency back:

This is probably gonna be the deepest free agent class in 20 years for the same reason the 2010 draft class was the deepest in a similar time frame.

Last year, a ****ton of players were signed to 1 year deals because of the lacking timescale between the time free agency started in relation to the kickoff of camps and preseason.

More than normal, players signed 1 year deals to stay with their present team rather than having to spend a year learning new systems and everything "on the fly"

That basically equates to this free agency period being last years and this years squashed into one.

That could prove very advantageous to a team with a lot of room to spend (cough cough) in a year previous to the one in which we are forced to spend that cash.

I've said it a couple times and I'll say it again right now.

I think this is gonna be the year in which we spend some serious coin in free agency if we are truly looking to be a future superbowl contender.

May I ask what makes you think that?

His hands are above average, but not great. He's not exceptionally fast in a straight line, nor is he all that quick in and out of his cuts. He's not the most focused guy out there, as we all know and his route running is solid but not Marvin Harrison. He's incredibly strong and has good, but not Fitzgerald-esque, body control.

He has a nice package of pretty good attributes and is clearly a very good WR - but "challenge some all time single-season records"? Why? What have you seen in his actual physical potential and day to day performance that suggests to you that he is capable of one of the greatest seasons of any WR in NFL history?

Bowe has statistically been the biggest benefactor of Cassel's inability to play big-boy QB. Cassel locks in on Bowe and simply force-feeds him. If Manning or Brady or Brees were behind center, a lot of those passes would've been spread across the field to other WRs.

I'm not convinced that a new quarterback would greatly improve Bowe's numbers. It would improve his performance in that his catches would mean more and come at more critical junctures; but I simply don't see the physical upside or mental approach that would put him on par with the truly great WRs in this league.

If you want historical perspectives - he's Michael Irvin to Calvin Johnson's Jerry Rice. He's a very good to even borderline great WR - but there's nothing historic about him.

With a cohesion killing collection of Cassel, Palko & finally Orton, not too mention the absolute confused mess of the offense in general this year... Bowe still wound up in the top 10.

Theres no way that a full year with ONE solid qb doesnt vault him into the top 5, and thats elite no matter how you want to slice it... and i'll simply refuse to hear the tired 'stats dont matter' argument, if they didnt matter they wouldnt be kept, they are proof positive of production, period.

Top 10 in what? He was 13th in yards and T-45 in TDs.

He's #10 on the overall regular season list.

Link?

NFL.com/stats

Where's the "overall" option?

Based on # of receptions, he's 10th

I stand corrected, not overall but in receptions.

Is that not a good enough indicator of production? is he going to be #1 in td's with the motley crew of qb's he's had? the mismanaged offenses?

Hopefully, he'll get a consistent offensive approach & a decently talented qb this year, then we'll see where everyone stands.

Bowe is open a lot when Cassel isn't looking his way.

The playoff game was a perfect example of that. Everybody that was there knows Bowe was wide open for 2 touchdowns.

That shit happens all the time.

I think if we had a quarterback that could spread the ball around, Bowe would be getting wide open looks all the time and we would have a guy that can get him the ball in those situations without hesitation.

22 is a stretch, but I could see him catching 19 or 20 TDs with a legit quarterback and the weapons we have.

Bowe is not the only reciever that was open A LOT that didn't get looks. Baldwin was open on MULTIPLE occassions. We need a QB that can look downfield , thats for sure.