Alterraun Verner is actually a very good CB with the ability to start on the outside.

His PFF rating blows Arenas out of the water.

Would you like to know more?

That is the kind of player Pioli needs to be hitting on since he is Mr. Universe GM Of The Millenia

Also, the argument isn't that "Pioli should have picked X corner in round 3 or 4 instead of Arenas."

It's only that he could have picked someone else in the 2nd.

Could have easily found a nickel some other way...it's not exactly a hard position to fill.

Someone did, though.

If the bolded isnt your argument, then why do you keep saying "he should have gotten a guy like him in the third/fourth round herp."

The rate of success of Piolis picks is far greater than most teams.

If you get 2 starters from 1 draft and 1 or 2 more guys that stick on the roster, you are doing well.

We have hit on almost 75% of our picks. (meaning they are solid contributors and are still on the team)

Its a shame Pioli has failed thus far at the most important position, though.

It almost eliminates everything positive he has done.

Think about that for a second.

75 percent is an absurd number.

Especially since I'm sure you're including guys like Allen Bailey, who are not impressing at the moment.

Pioli screwed up on 8 of 9 picks in ONE DRAFT (including Cassel trade)

There's no way that translates to 75 percent.

"Solid contributors and are still on the team"

I count 17/24 that are still on the roster from the 3 drafts Pioli has had (Im obviously not gonna count anything from the 2012 draft) and all of them look to contribute this year.

Thats 71%...close enough.

1 26 Jonathan Baldwin WR Pittsburgh
2 55 Rodney Hudson C Florida State
3 70 Justin Houston LB Georgia
3 86 Allen Bailey DE Miami (Fla.)
4 118 Jalil Brown DB Colorado
5 135 Ricky Stanzi QB Iowa
5 140 Gabe Miller LB Oregon State
6 199 Jerrell Powe NT Mississippi
7 223 Shane Bannon FB Yale

1 5 Eric Berry SS Tennessee
2 36 Dexter McCluster WR Mississippi
2 50 Javier Arenas DB Alabama
3 68 Jon Asamoah G Illinois
3 93 Tony Moeaki TE Iowa
4 142 Cameron Sheffield LB Troy
5 136 Kendrick Lewis FS Mississippi

1 3 Tyson Jackson DE Louisiana State
3 67 Alex Magee DT Purdue
4 102 Donald Washington DB Ohio State
5 139 Colin Brown T Missouri
6 175 Quinten Lawrence WR McNeese State
7 212 Javarris Williams RB Tennessee State
7 237 Jake O'Connell TE Miami (Ohio)
7 256 Ryan Succop K South Carolina

Jalil Brown? Ricky Stanzi? Jerrell Powe? Allen Bailey? Dexter McCluster? Cameron Sheffield?

JAKE O'CONNELL? TYSON JACKSON?

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

You think Pioli hit on those picks?

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

Cleanup on aisle homer, BossChief has made a mess.

I would dispute the claim that Ryan chokes in big games, but even if he did... a 1pm ET regular season game against a team that finished the previous year bottom of a garbage division is probably not something he considers a big game.

Yeah, this is definitely not a big game.

This is an NFC powerhouse taking a road trip to take a shit on an AFC bottom feeder.

I dunno if things are that bad. It is true the falcons O-line is aweful, and the overrall tackling ability of their D leaves a lot to be desired

contributors? what have they contributed exactly? 3/4s if this list have done nothing good in terms of legitimate NFL production in their careers yet. Absolutely nothing. Pure homerism to crown these guys already even as even role players

Cody's a 3 down player :rolleyes: All that fat POS has done is bellyflop on Charles in a playoff game

I don't think they should be taking any road game for granted. Make them one dimensional.

For players in their second and third years, they contributed quite a bit, actually.

Like I said in the top line "solid contributors that are still on the team"

Tell ya what...

Give me 5 teams in the NFL that had better draft classes over that time period.

Now, dance.

The guy pimps the shit out of marginal players on other teams. It's pretty funny seeing him bag on someone else.

He's a loser
Posted via Mobile Device

You have no idea how the NFL works, do you?

If a team gets 2 starters out of a draft, its a successful draft.

We got 3 starters already out of the 2011 class in Baldwin, Hudson and Houston...3 more out of the 2010 class in Berry, Lewis and Asamoah (and arguably 3 more that could be considered starters in DMC, Arenas and Moeaki) and out of the 2009 class, he got Jackson, Succop and Belcher.

Anyone that thinks thats not a good 3 year stretch of drafting, doesnt know what they are talking about.

The bust rate for 2nd rounders is 50 percent. 3rd round? 70

If I have some extra time to burn someday, Im gonna go through every single 2nd and 3rd round pick the league has had over the last 15 years and see what percentage of them are even in the NFL after 3 years.

Then, how many of them are starters after 3 years.

Then, how many are probowl quality players after 5.

I bet the numbers would astonish the majority of this board.

Yep.

Jackson is one of the better 3-4 defensive ends in the league right now.

McCluster has been the featured guy this past preseason in the Chiefs offense and played well.

Brown, Powe, Bailey and Stanzi are just starting their second year after a first year that didn't have a training camp, and saw a head coaching change. Brown and Bailey contributed last year in situational play and were effective. Powe has looked the best of all the NT on the roster this preseason.

It doesn't happen overnight, and it doesn't happen through free agency. The past three drafts have been superb in filling in the holes and getting better talent on this team.

You want a reason to bitch about shitty drafts? Go look at the 20 years previous to Pioli and see how many of those guys in those drafts stuck around after a couple of years.

It's refreshing to see our draft picks develop within the system and stick around. It's a good way to build a quality team.

You wouldn't take lee over arenas? I like arenas but I really disagree with that. Laughing at the idea is even more out of control.

Gadget position? Tate is a three down starter? No.

I will not deny that Pioli hasn't done a solid job rounding out the roster, but where is the drafting genius that everyone thought was Pioli? All of our impact players/bonafied stars are all from the previous regime with the exception of 1.

Flowers, Bowe, Carr last year, Hali, Charles, DJ are all from the previous regime, and 4 of those players made all pro type impacts within their first 2 seasons.

The only all pro Pioli has picked out of his 3 drafts has been Berry.

Carr, Hali and DJ weren't much more than just potential in 2009. This regime either developed them or completely turned their careers around.

Give credit to the previous regime for Flowers, Charles and Bowe though...no doubt.

Well they would be 7.5 favorites at home. Lines have been consistent at -1 to -1.5. This is the easiest bet of week 1.

BB hasn't been killing it either. They seem to have been best together plus they got some luck. Pioli kills himself with the qb issue. If he fixes that the rest of his moves get more light plus probably improve with a better qb around them.

If you do that your P will have double digit punts.

If we can limit Cassel's attemps to 5 or below we will win this game, no doubt.

Who was all pro within 2 seasons?


Maybe Bowe. Maybe.


This is something i've been thinking about with all the "the core guys are from Peterson" talk.

They are, no arguing that. However, this is Pioli's 4th year at the helm. So at best, this is the 4th year in the league for some of his picks and 3rd year from some, so on and so on.

Some of his picks have the potential to become cornerstones(Houston, Berry obviously, Baldwin, Poe, Hudson, Asamoah, Jackson, etc). Potential. They are still young pups in the league, we have no idea what they will become yet.

However, in my opinion, there in-lies the problem with Pioli's formula he seems to be using here. He's tried to build up the overall talent of the team and done a pretty good job of it. Has drafted some guys that have potential to become stars in the league and some guys who aren't still in the league, so yeah of course he's missed on some picks. But, by building the team first and not having the QB, it makes it much tougher. If you have the "Guy" at qb, you can still win games and keep your job while this young talent you have done your homework on and drafted grows into what you vision them becoming.

Pioli might have done a great job putting together this roster, but if they don't win now, he's not likely to be around when the real fruit comes to bear, so to say. Which is why it seems like the bass ackwards way of doing things.

Look at the Lions. Roster for Roster, I'd say we would stack up pretty favorably and likely be ahead in some areas.

But they have a star at QB. Legit gunslinging star, who can carry them while they continue to build the roster into what they want. It's that part that Pioli seems to be really great at doing. He's built a talented, while unproven at alot of places, roster. He just went about it the wrong way, if that makes any sense.

If you are a gm in this league going after a qb at all costs and then building the roster has a better chance of working out quicker than building and then getting the qb. Obviously police tried getting the qb but it should have been a 1 yr trial. He continues to make his job harder waiting for a chance in the draft instead of making one no matter the cost.

This is where you come to an impass. You want to keep building the roster by not giving up picks, but without the right QB, what exactly are you building for.

Flowers, Bowe, and Charles are 3 players who looked to be future stars within their first 2 seasons.

I am not denying Pioli has done a solid job rounding out the roster, but there are some things that bother me, picking a solid 3/4 DE with the third pick in the draft. Let me ask you something, would you have picked him first? Because we were not that far off.

Signing Matt Cassel to a long term deal and giving him Drew Brees money overshadows anything Pioli has done.

Remember, as to rounding out the roster I give him some credit, but building the foundation he has failed, and failed hard. Everyone acts like we have a good roster. Why? Where is the depth? Our backups continue to get killed during the preseason. It is sad to think that in our 4th season we are still struggling with depth issues most notably the CB position. I guess Pioli didn't learn last year.

There is no question giving up picks will probably hurt short term but I think odds are, nearly guaranteed if you hit on the qb, you will be better quicker. I would take an average team with a very good qb over a very good roster with an average qb. I would take it without blinking.

I assume you meant average team with good QB?

Yeah.

Most of the teams in the NFL that are successful have drafted qb's either in the first or second round.

Yeah, I would too.



But I'd really like to have a great team with a great QB.


I'm not as down on Pioli as some but I'm also not as high on him as some. He's done a pretty solid job building the roster, but without the QB it might prove to be an exercise in futility.

His mistakes, or perhaps his non-hits if you will, have been magnified by not having a qb.

He has had some mistakes, but like Boss pointed out, he's actually done a great job drafting guys.

He just hasn't gotten the bus driver yet.

You know, BlackBob, as a therapist I expose denial everyday and for a moment here as I initially read your post I thought to myself, "BlackBob is not in denial he raises legit points UNTIL I was reminded who our QB is with Lewis and Hali out with Flowers and Toribio very gimpy and questionable.

Good try though man!!! For a moment there I was positive and that moment was a brief sigh of relief but then reality hit:doh!: But sincerely I thank you for that brief moment of fresh air:D

Its not just drafting guys, either.

He has done a good job getting us talent via free agency, too.

Hillis
Boss
Winston
Routt
Lilja (as a stop gap)
Weigmann (stop gap)
Breaston
Elam
Draughn
maneri
Pitoitua
Smith

I know Im missing somebody, but thats not a bad list of free agent talent he has signed.

As a Chiefs fan, we all better pray to you can add



Cassel (stop gap) to the list.



I can't for the life of me believe that Pioli, a guy who has a pretty good eye for talent, think Matt Cassel is a legit leader.

Cassel is a good leader, he just isnt a good quarterback at this level.

It's true he hasn't really passed over a ton of replacements, although there have been some. This yr won't be different if we get a low 20 s high teens pick. At some point he is going to have to force the issue

This is why people make fun of you for being a homer and a blowjob artist for Scott Pioli.

DMC is a #4 WR.

Arenas is a NCB who played 382 snaps last year.

Those guys don't play a starter's role, nor do they even have the talent to start. At any position.

Tha G.M. just can't swing and miss on a QB and HC. IMO, he's done it twice with the HC.

Some of these guys have not even played for us yet. What about depth? We are still struggling with depth despite what we went through last year. For having 4 offseasons that is nothing to brag about.

Routt? Really? You forgot to list Matt Cassel

So Pioli, the highest paid GM in football, is excused from picking Dexter McCluster. Got it.

I'm not concerned about HC as much as QB.

QB is FAR more important.

See Tony Dungy.

Who do you want him to take the past three years?

Sanchez? Clausen? Weeden?

Let's be serious, the Chiefs, under Pioli, really haven't had the opportunity to pick a first rounder that wasn't a complete reach.

I'm all for picking a QB in the first round, but let's get a good QB versus reach for a project.

Next year is the year. You've got four guys who'll get graded out as first round prospects. Cassel's contract is over in 2014. The media is now putting on the full press for a QB. So's the fan base. The 2013 draft is the one where a really good QB is going to be there for the Chiefs and it won't be a reach.

So you expect the Chiefs to be bad again and draft top 10 again? That's the only way they get a top QB. And even that's iffy. I've stopped worrying so much about who they draft. None of us can change anything anyways.
Posted via Mobile Device

All 4 QBs won't be drafted top 10.

Andy Dalton, Michael Vick, Russell Wilson Tj Yates, Josh Freeman off of the top of my head.

Cassel has shown without a run game he is ineffective, I would rather have any of the qb's above than Cassel

Probably true. But to have a decent shot at a top guy you have to be bad. Aaron Rodgers only happen once in a blue moon.
Posted via Mobile Device

No, I expect one of those four guys to be there when the Chiefs pick. Barkley, Wilson, Smith or Jones. Near identical skill sets that would really fit with the team and coaching staff as it now stands. And you can throw Glennon into the mix if he has a big year. He's a very nice player as well.

Four, possibly five, QB's that are first round material. The Chiefs will have the opportunity to get one and with Cassel's contract expiring in 2014 and Quinn and Stanzi's lacklusterness, the media and fan pressure, solid young players at most positions, it's gonna happen. I'm smelling QB in 2013 for the Chiefs.

Pioli is not going to pick a QB.

He made zero effort to replace or push Cassel this past offseason when it made a mountain of sense to do so.

Would have been really easy to sign Kyle Orton and have him waiting in the wings if Cassel started 0-3 again.

Russell Wilson or Nick Foles would have been excellent picks. Both offer far more potential, and have more ability than Quinn or Stanzi.

Pioli just isn't interested in any other QBs.

He's got his guy.

Only way to get rid of Cassel is to get rid of Pioli. I firmly believe that.

Orton LMAO

Come on, man.

Orton is a lot better than Quinn. No one can argue than that.

This is easily a 10-6/11-5 team with Kyle Orton.

With Cassel? Might be a 7 or 8 win team.

Sign Kyle Orton and you at least present the picture that you tried to find a viable alternative.

Quinn was a BS signing that only true fans put any value in.

Orton threw for more YPG and passing first downs, had a better rating and record than Cassel did in 2011 with the Chiefs. He did that with about 6 days worth of practice with a team he had never played with before. Even if he didn't start here he would of been a viable backup to Cassel.

God dammit.

I swear to god I am not New World Order.

C'mon man.

If the Chiefs picked any of those guys in the first or second round, this place would have imploded and I wouldn't have touched Dog Killer with a ten foot pole when he was parolled.

That those guys worked out, and Dalton, Wilson and Freeman all have more to prove regardless, is irrelevant. Freeman was a reach and Dalton, Wilson and Yates aren't/weren't first round talents. Sometimes you are lucky and sometimes you are really lucky as the Colts were this draft.

However, there are four, maybe five guys this next draft who are basically the same player. All very good QB's. One should be available when the Chiefs pick. If they don't, they don't, but the opportunity to grab a real first round guy is going to be there this next draft. Or it should. You never know what lunatic team trades up or whathaveyou, but in a straight forward draft, this is going to be the Chiefs best opportunity to get a graded out first round guy since Aaron Rogers and Brady Quinn. (Though, oddly enough, we now have Quinn. Maybe the team is okay with/agrees with Coogs and thinks he's the QBOTF.)

LMAO You're comparing him to Cassel?

Not a good measuring stick.

Yes, Orton played well, but struggled in the red zone.

Holy shit. Did you watch any of Dallas' preseason games? Orton was ****ing atrocious. Beyond bad.

**** that noise.

Quinn is a total upgrade to that pile of monkey shit.

I don't know...you both have the same rep. LMAO

His red zone play was garbage.

I'm not gonna argue about this because he was not the answer.

Based on several years of NFL play, Orton drops nuclear bombs on Brady Quinn's Hiroshima and/or Nagasaki.

**** preseason.

Orton's problem is he just doesn't give a shit.

That's why he went to Dallas.

Didn't have to worry about competing for a starting job and got a nice contract.

You (Or someone else) asked who I would rather have at qb and I told you.

We both know Pioli won't pick a qb in the first round. I agree it's a great idea but it will not happen.

I'm not talking about hindsight you tool. There was no way that anyone was taking any of those guys for this team before they were drafted. And Vick was a total coach killer, let alone canines.

Tell Orton the reward is a bottle of jack and he may lead the team to 11 wins.

So what DB was taken in the 3rd or 4th round of that draft that is better than Arenas, and has the 3rd highest PR av. in the league?
Arenas also played 60% of the teams defensive snaps last season, so he's nearly considered a starter, and a well above average one.

Show me one GM in the league who hit a home run with every pick. They don't exist. Pioli has drafted as well as any GM in the league, and if you don't agree, I'd like to see a couple of examples.

Oh, and are you taking my bet or not?, I'll even allow you to start, and post in the Gif'd up thread, as long as I can post in that thread as well if i lose. That will at least be able to stop you from shitting in every thread.

I'm too lazy, but someone should compare the Chiefs drafts from 09-11 with Baltimore(De Costa) and Atlanta(Dimitroff).

I would bet that we have added a comparable amount of quality starters as those teams have, and those teams also have some guys that didn't pan out as well. We have very very few players who have actually completely washed out. McCluster was over drafted, but it's not as if he is a complete wash out.

Overall, I'm pleased with Pioli's drafts.

Were he's failed is Cassel.

Ha. Didn't take you long, did it?

What other McCluster bets you still have on the table?

If McCluster gets 40 catches, I have his sig for 6 months. If he gets 50, I have it for a year, If he gets under 20, he has mine for a year, and that all starts after he loses his 300 touches for Charles bet with Boss.

Doesn't he get tired of Dex owning his ass? It's like Homer reaching for the donut and getting shocked over and over and over and over...

I t hink the chiefs will lose. In fact, I think they lose convincingly. Maybe by 10 to 13 pts. However, I think that Daboll showed in the first and last preseason games that this team will be capable of running the ball when they make it a gameplan to do so. This game, perhaps more than any other will depend on keeping Matt Ryan off the field as much as possible. The entire advantage of the Falcons is in their top ten passing attack vs our depleted pass defense for this game. If the chiefs run the ball like I think they can, they can control the time of possession perhaps 33 to 27 minutes or better. If they do that, then I could see a scenario where they keep it fairly close, but I still see them losing.

He wants to be right about Dex being garbage so bad but he's just not. The guy was over drafted. He needs to just get over that fact, and realize, that he can and will be productive. Like I was saying about he, and Arenas. People are so mad about where they were drafted, that they just can't let themselves realize that they are not bad players. Especially Arenas. With the health of our secondary, people should be thanking God that we have Arenas. He may be the 2nd best CB on our roster at this point.

If the Chiefs win 10, none of this matters because he won't be around for a yr.