He had good to respectable completion percentage. And then I just have to go with the two games I watch live, despite what a train wreck the Eagles were, I came away impressed. I remember being angry and jealous that Reid seem to always find a QB

He's young enough maybe he can be developed. I don't see it but it isn't completely out of the question.

He just to me looks like another prototypical size and strength guy that in reality can't play. But he's also only 24 so we'll see.

yep.
Posted via Mobile Device

Thats what bothers me actually. He had Reid for a year, so IMO, thats about as good as his accuracy can get.


I just don't think a QB with accuracy problems ever comes out of that, and I'm tired of having a QB with accuracy concerns.

You think the first seven starts of his rookie season, on a team that basically already tanked, is as good as he'll get? I hope if we draft Geno, and he struggles you don't say, well, that's what he is.

Yeah, cause thats what I said.


Generally, guys who have accuracy problems, always have accuracy problems. It can be improved with footwork and mechanics, but not a whole lot.

He can improve in terms of his mental ability etc, but as far as accuracy, I'm not sure.

And I say what a accuracy problems? A clip of him overthrowing a receiver? His CP was not bad at all.

Obviously you are a little biased on this, because you like Foles this much. But he had accuracy problems coming out of college and he had bad down field accuracy last year. Outside of 15 yards, his accuracy wasnt' very good.


You don't have to get so defensive on the matter. I watched alot of him coming out last year, cause I thought he Chiefs might draft him.

He has the measurables HC's dream about but his accuracy is ass...

Alright. I'm sorry about the defensive stuff. Its Not even that I love Foles, I get more defensive with what seems like players getting dismissed because they aren't Geno Smith. I think some here are being unfair to the new regime, that if they don't see Geno as the answer, or think there's more than one way to solve the QN situation, that they're SP RC 2.0.

I didnt think much of Foles coming out, but his play, in what I consider almost a no win situation last year impressed me.

Thats fine. But it's not just Geno Smith. Yeah there are a few around here who are all Geno. But it's more the QB spot.


Getting a retread instead of drafting a QB in the first round like we've always talked about on there have some people pretty pissed, which I can't say I don't understand either.

And if they do decide to go with Foles, there are some similarities to the Cassel situation. Not as much with the player, but the situation.

After watching 3 QB's in a row with horrid accuracy I'm sure that's the one thing I'm looking for.

The team will make its decision but I want the most intelligent and accurate guy out there...

His biggest problem is with his accuracy. That's either something you have or don't.

I don't see him getting a whole lot better.

It's not unfair to the new regime. They just happen to be heading up the franchise that some of us have been following for 20-30 years.

It may not be fair but it's human nature - they now own the sins of the past, it comes with the job.

That's fine. I'm just not going to make them pay for the sins of the past before the season starts.

Back to defending Foles. He was 15th in the NFL in CP, on a crappy team with a crappy line. I think he can improve on that without a doubt.

How does he get more accurate? Guys improve on that alot?

Accuracy is one of the more fixable aspects of a QB. Because it's using something with their motion that needs to be tweaked.

Thats just wrong. Muscle memory isn't an easy thing to fix at all. Sorry, but again thats wrong.

First off, again he wasn't bad at accuracy last year, and yes, he can get better.

This is a completely inaccurate statement, but that's par for the course for you.

Accuracy can be refined and improved slightly, but if you don't have the muscle-memory to perfectly replicate your throwing motion every time, you're not going to be an accurate passer.

Watch the Drew Brees sports science and you'll see what I mean. Every single time Drew Brees throws the football, his arm does the exact same thing. Meanwhile a guy like Foles does not. His muscle memory isn't that precise. Moreover, even if you do dink with his mechanics, as soon as the shit hits the fan his body will revert back to what it was originally trained to do and he'll end up going to his old mechanics under pressure and turning the ball over.

Accuracy is the single most difficult thing to find in a quarterback and it's the the most important innate skill for them to have. Decisionmaking can be taught and pocket awareness can be schemed around. If a quarterback isn't accurate, there's nothing you can do to hide it and there's little you can do to fix it.

It's been shown that his down field average isnt' good and he has average accuracy in the intermediate zones and good accuracy underneath.


Coming out he was questioned about accuracy and decision making, which is what seemed to plague him last year.


I like DJ's examples on these things in using letter scales. Say he's a B- in regards to accuracy. He can get to a B, maybe even a B+, with mechanical overhauls etc. But he just can't get to an A.


Now not saying that he's a B-, just using that as a guide.

If you have little muscle memory, than of course you can fix it. Hence my comment about tweaking their motion. If they just throw like a kid with downs, then no it isn't easy to fix.

But typically accuracy, like with Foles or Tyler Wilson, it's just an inconsistency with their mechanics that they need to tweak. A good QB coach can fix that.

Yeah, because it happens all the time.

And no, muscle-memory is a talent, same as quick-twitch musculature and raw arm strength. You either have the physical talent to repeat your delivery or you don't.

If you have it, you'd have developed it by your senior year.

It's not just taught and history proves that.

I wouldn't either if I could help it.

I'm just too jaded, unfortunately.

I'm done implicitly trusting anyone.

Kelly pretty much just put the Foles stuff to rest at the presser, so I think we can move on from that.



If you take him at his word of course.

He was almost exactly AVERAGE last year. He was a solid "C+".

He can be a B-/B kind of guy. He will NEVER be an A. I want an A.

Tyler Wilson had it. He just lost it when he was having to force balls playing for one of the most ****ed up teams in college football.

Foles will be great. Possibly better than Geno will ever be.

Deal with it, bro.

thank you sweet God...
Posted via Mobile Device

No he didn't. He just knows how to raise a player's trade value.

Yep, it was him forgetting his muscle memory, nothing to do with his bad shitty decision making.

Where are these accuracy issues coming from? Foles' senior year, he had a 69.1% completion percentage with 7.7 ypa (Geno was 71.2% with 8.1 ypa with much better weapons on offense, just for comparison's sake). Foles was on a horrible team with only one decent weapon on offense and nothing else. To make matters worse, his head coach got fired mid-season so he also had to deal with a coaching shake-up.

With the Eagles, he also had to deal with no o-line and a revolving door at WR, as well as McCoy being injured a big part of the second half of the season. He had no real time to get the timing down with them. Remember how bad TrINT looked his first year when we had terrible receivers that he was just getting to know?

I suspect 99% of the people bashing him never saw a single game of his in college and are pulling shit out of their ass to pump up their QB du jour.

I don't know if he will end up being a great QB or not, but it would be nice if the talk was a little more realistic.

Tyler Wilson never had it.

He was a chucker under Petrino that threw balls up for the best WR corps in college football to run under. Wilson's greatest strengths have been aggressiveness and swagger. He damn sure hasn't been known as an 'accurate' passer.

Lol, Geno fanboys.

I was down on Tyler Wilson before I was heavy on Geno Smith, but try again, sport.

I don't believe that.

I'd take him over a guy like Bray or Barkley in a heartbeat...

Nobody is bashing him. He's not an elite QB prospect. He just isn't.

Probably not.

However, there were a ton of posts just last page talking about how inaccurate he is, which was the point of my post. I watched him a ton in college and never saw that.

He doesn't have elite accuracy. He's very hit and miss outside of 15 yards.

Like I said, he's a solid C+/B- kind of guy. His upside is probably B/B+ at best.

We need to be shooting for an A.

That's fine; I want someone like that too.


Just curious. Where do you rank Dalton and Ryan. B range?

Ryan has worked himself into the A-/B+ range. Dalton is probably B quality.

Yep. I think those guys are both high-end game managers and that's about it. Not a popular opinion but so far I've been pretty right on.

Thanks. I've been wondering what the bottom level QB people would be satisfied with (not talking about Foles anymore, just in general). Obviously, everyone wants the next Brady or Manning but there aren't too many of those.

So, is Dalton the bottom level? If Reid and Dorsey tard out and take a non-QB at #1 but get Dyset later and he ends up being another Dalton, would that be acceptable?

Personally, I've never been that impressed with Dalton, though I don't watch the Bengals very much. I would love to have someone with Ryan's skills (or better).

By the way, no trick question here nor am I being argumentative. I'm honestly curious. Shit, I was so tired of Cassel, I might have been happy with Orton (for a while anyway). :eek:

I don't really want Dysert. For me it comes down to Geno, Barkley, or Wilson.

That wasn't really the question but thanks anyway.

That's dumb.

Accuracy and arm strength are two things that for the most part you are born with or you aren't.

Accuracy can be improved some with improved footwork and mechanics but you aren't going to turn Jake Locker into Aaron Rodgers.

Well, to answer the specific question but take Dysert out of the equation, no, it wouldn't be acceptable.

We have the #1 pick in the draft. If we end up with Andy Dalton out of this draft, I'm going to be disappointed.

You don't get Foles because he is a franchise QB, you get Foles because out of all the available options, Foles knows Reid's offense the freshest, and is the cheapest out of all of them. You use him for one year to see how he progresses with actual weapons and O-line, and also allow him to teach up and help Geno transition into the pros and Andy's system. We know that Andy already likes him since he did just pick him last year, and would you find a single player in this draft in the 3rd or 4th round that would impact the team like a young scheme-familiar QB would? Trade him for a 3/4th pick, let him get a shot this year for a few games so you dont throw your new franchise QB to the wolves, and see if you have someone that could be a quality backup or potential trade bait in the future once Geno develops.

They're not getting Foles AND Geno.

Agreed, someone who will truly work at it can up their percentage, someone like a Flacco... but a Mitch "wild thing" Williams type like Locker will probably never have elite accuracy.

There has to atleast be a little bit of it there to begin with.

Why wouldn't they?

Because you don't acquire a young kid with upside in Foles to sit him on the bench.

You backup a rookie with a vet.

Initially you aren't sitting him, you give him the starting job off the bat and let him run with it. There is zero reason to rush Geno to play, let him sit and learn the same as Rodgers did. Lets say Foles dominates with his playing time, now you have two young quality QBs to work with and Andy is known for trading off his QBs that he developed for draft picks (See Kolb and Feeley). I just don't see any reason not to do this, especially with the price of Foles' contract that he would bring, there isn't a QB in the entire market that can come here that cheap.

You're thinking about this logically. Step back and look at it the way it almost always happens in the NFL.

If they trade a 3rd for Foles, he's the starter. He's not a stopgap or a backup.

And If they draft Geno #1 overall, he's going to start.

I see where you're coming from, but I feel that you'd be hard pressed to find a scout or even fan who thinks that it would be in the Chiefs best interest to start a raw Geno on the first day. Even some of Geno's biggest supporters realize that he isn't realistically worth the first overall pick but instead is just the best Qb available and no other position on the team needs an upgrade as sorely as the QB position. Therefore, I feel like all former trends regarding a number 1 overall QB should go out the window, because honestly, he isn't good enough right now to start day one and produce like you would expect from a number one pick. That's why I say let him develop and let Reid, Pederson, and supposedly Childress work their magic and turn Geno into whatever he is capable of being.