No, he's not... if he was such a gamebreaker, the pats offense wouldnt have put up a measly 13 points against baltimore, even without gronk.

He's an excellent slot guy who's quick out of his breaks and has great hands... but without other players helping keep the heat off of him, he's easily accounted for and contained.

He's a great complementary player, but not a true difference maker who can line up anywhere and consistently win that battle.

Here's my thought on the Welker signing...

It doesn't fix their problems from 2012 and what ultimately cost them the playoff game vs BAL. Denver's defense has improved a lot over the last 2 seasons, but there's still work to be done - holes to be filled.

However, a big part of what makes Manning successful is having lots of weapons and working the slot receiver. Welker is an amazing addition as a slot receiver and while it wasn't a top priority, how do you pass on the opportunity at that price? It was a no-brainer signing to me and yes, Welker has a lot of wear and tear, but he's far from being old and washed up.

This signing makes their offense more lethal... which they'll need if when they get caught up in shoot outs, which they will in 2013 if they don't make a major upgrade in the secondary.

All in all ... not a lot to point at and laugh at with this signing.

You're going to compare this guys' career, against a single game against Baltimore?

Get out.

PFF also says they looked amazing against the Ravens. Really stepped it up that game...

Well, actually he does. He gets open so quick, is great at hot reads and is in such good sync with his QB, he goes a long way towards reducing the effectiveness of a blitz or very good pass rush.

The best WR in the NFL doesn't settle for 12 million over 2 years.

I think that's why he's a great difference maker. Recently, in NE with the injuries at TE - Welker was 'the man' in the passing game. He's not built to be "the man", he's built to be an amazing "other weapon" and that's exactly what he's set up to be in Denver with Thomas, Decker and Tamme. That is a nice 4-some in the passing game, one of the best going into 2013.

I think you'll be hard pressed to find 3 other teams with a better "4" in their passing attacks.

If I'm John Dorsey, I would have made some calls and tried to get Wes Welker.

**** Donnie Avery.

I would have no problem giving Wes a 2 year 14-15 million dollar deal.

Why do you cry when people say Brady is better than Manning? What can you do about it? They are both HOFers and better than what the chiefs have

That seems amazing, and stupid, to me.

Most seasons, 10+ pass receptions: 19, Jerry Rice 1985–2004
Most seasons, 15+ pass receptions: 19, Jerry Rice 1985–2004
Most seasons, 20+ pass receptions: 19, Jerry Rice 1985–2004
Most seasons, 25+ pass receptions: 19, Jerry Rice 1985–2004
Most seasons, 30+ pass receptions: 18, Jerry Rice 1985–2003
Most seasons, 35+ pass receptions: 18, Jerry Rice 1985–2003
Most seasons, 40+ pass receptions: 18, Jerry Rice 1985–2003
Most seasons, 45+ pass receptions: 18, Jerry Rice 1985–2003
Most seasons, 50+ pass receptions: 17, Jerry Rice 1986–2003
Most seasons, 55+ pass receptions: 17, Jerry Rice 1986–2003
Most seasons, 60+ pass receptions: 17, Jerry Rice 1986–2003
Most seasons, 65+ pass receptions: 15, Jerry Rice 1986–2002
Most seasons, 70+ pass receptions: 13, Jerry Rice 1986–2002, Tony Gonzalez 1999-2012
Most seasons, 75+ pass receptions: 13, Jerry Rice 1986–2002
Most seasons, 80+ pass receptions: 12, Jerry Rice 1986-2002
Most seasons, 85+ pass receptions: 7, Jerry Rice 1986-2002, Marvin Harrison 1999-2006, Cris Carter 1993-2000
Most seasons, 90+ pass receptions: 6, Torry Holt 2002–2007, Marvin Harrison 1999-2006, Jerry Rice 1990-2002
Most seasons, 95+ pass receptions: 5, Jerry Rice 1990–1996, Marvin Harrison 1996-2006, Wes Welker 2007-2012
Most seasons, 100+ pass receptions: 5, Wes Welker 2007-2012
Most seasons, 105+ pass receptions: 5, Wes Welker 2007-2012
Most seasons, 110+ pass receptions: 5, Wes Welker 2007–2012
Most seasons, 115+ pass receptions: 3, Wes Welker 2009-2012
Most seasons, 120+ pass receptions: 2, Cris Carter 1994–1995, Wes Welker 2009-2011


Most games, 1+ reception, career: 296, Jerry Rice 1985-2004
Most games, 2+ receptions, career: 284, Jerry Rice 1985-2004
Most games, 3+ receptions, career: 256, Jerry Rice 1985-2004
Most games, 4+ receptions, career: 213, Jerry Rice 1985-2004
Most games, 5+ receptions, career: 166, Jerry Rice 1985-2004
Most games, 6+ receptions, career: 128, Jerry Rice 1985-2004
Most games, 7+ receptions, career: 86, Jerry Rice 1985-2004
Most games, 8+ receptions, career: 51, Marvin Harrison 1996-2008
Most games, 9+ receptions, career: 32, Marvin Harrison 1996-2008
Most games, 10+ receptions, career: 18, Wes Welker 2007–present
Most games, 11+ receptions, career: 12, Marvin Harrison 1999-2004, Wes Welker 2007-present
Most games, 12+ receptions, career: 9, Wes Welker 2007–present
Most games, 13+ receptions, career: 5, Wes Welker 2007–present
Most games, 14+ receptions, career: 3, Jason Witten 2007–present
Most games, 15+ receptions, career: 2, Brandon Marshall 2008–present, Wes Welker 2009–present, Jason Witten 2007–present
Most games, 16+ receptions, career: 2, Brandon Marshall 2008–present
Most games, 17+ receptions, career: 2, Brandon Marshall 2008–present
Most games, 18+ receptions, career: 2, Brandon Marshall 2008–present


I see two names come up very often.


Nope, don't worry guys, Wes Welker is overrated, and a product of his system.

Yep.

Exactly, how many 2-5 yard passes did he catch from Brady over the years? That's another way you rack up 5 out of 6 seasons with over 110 receptions - move the chains. Welker is not a #1 receiver... that's not his role.

The most dangerous and productive one just did.

You are out of your ****ing mind. Just for the record.

Then why does he almost exclusively play slot? if he was a true blue big play guy who can literally do it all, dont you think he'd be used more at two or even one?

Great player in the right role, but he's far from what you're trumping him up to.

My statistics posted, disagree with you.

And we wonder why the Hootie Mirror thread dragged out for 11tybillion posts.

He doesn't have the size to play #1 or #2.

That was a really dumb question by you.

PS, never said he could do it all.

I totally agree, combined with the rest of that corp he's going to be an excellent get for you guys.

49-3 Giants beat Montana/Rice in playoffs.

Never pin a loss on one guy unless it's truly egregious. It makes no sense at all.

The biggest difference maker WR in the league -your assertion- CAN do it all, thats the point you're missing.

Yeah, Idiots are sitting here saying Wes Welker isn't one of the best receivers of all time, or THE SINGLE best slot receiver to ever play the game.


And he just went to a division rival while we signed Donnie ****ing Avery.

I've seen this before, our divisional rival that we hate more than anyone, just signed a superstar, so we, in our infinite fear, decided to downplay the guy.

"Peyton isn't the same, he won't do well". Boom, comeback player of the year, great season, one of his best, and they won the west.

Lets not fool ourselves, Wes Welker is the ****ing shit, period.

The Broncos need a safety that can help Bailey deep. Bailey is still a great corner. Just not when he's having to run with Torrey Smith. They could also use a DT that can penetrate. Von and Doom were neutralized against the Ravens. I'd say they are a contender just as much as anybody else. But anything goes in the playoffs (they outplayed the Ravens, Moore was stupid).

(Bronco fan here)

which will impact the game more?

1. broncos signing welker

2. all the shit the chiefs did

it makes the Pats considerably worse...

when they were toying around with Eldeman over Welker that offense wasn't nearly as good...the injuries happened, Welker is reinserted, and all of the sudden Tom Terrific is Tom Terrific again

Amnorix and the Pats fans can parade around like 'oh no big deal' but it is a big deal

No, that is YOUR assertion.

A difference maker is not somebody who can lineup anywhere on the field.

Its the guy who can get open, get free, get yards, and produce first downs when called upon.

Wes Welker is the single BEST at that, in this league.

Bingo

Despite the fact that Edelman and company can and probably will develop into an adequate replacement, nobody will ever replace Welker's ability to make a play, his ability to get open and get free, or his ability to be clutch in big moments.

Huge loss for the Pats, and a Monumental gain for the Broncos, and dumbasses are here thinking, "Nah, he won't amount to anything for the Broncos, he's done, past his prime".

Holy shit.

Welker takes $12M over two years. $6M per

We pay Donnie ****ing Avery $11M over 3 years. Nearly $4M per.

We pay DeVito $12M over 3 years. $4M per.

Fasano, $16M over 4 years. $4M per.


Someone is doing this right, someone is doing it horribly wrong.

Exactly...I see this as hurting the Pats wayyyy more than helping the Broncos.

JFC LMAOLMAOLMAOLMAO

you're the worst

Avery is getting 8.55 mil but ok...

Welker is a great weapon in the right circumstances, but you're clearly wrong just by virtue of the fact that apparently nobody in the NFL was willing to offer more than 2/$12. If he was the greatest thing in the universe, surely he'd be worth more than that.

Unless, of course, you're right and 32 NFL GMs are wrong. That must be it...

Who are you arguing with?

Wes Welker is fantastic, and I have yet to hear anyone say otherwise.

Debatable, but you have to admit, this is a HUGE gain for the Broncos offense.

It means Thomas or Decker or hell even maybe both are going to have MONSTER years now.

What does that have to do with this statement:

You most assuredly did not say he was the most dangerous slot receiver in the league. You said he was the most dangerous - period. That's as stupid a statement as has been uttered around here...ever.

Welker was targeted 174 times last year; I'd say that has a little to do with his lofty catch numbers, don't you? And he's not being asked to make difficult catches up over his shoulder and way downfield - he's squatting into zones and making fairly easy catches. Over the last 4 years he's been targeted 605 times. Yeah, 150 targets/season...no big deal.


Morever, his drop rate really isn't that good. Last season he had 133 catchable balls and dropped 15 of them; a drop rate of over 11%. For the record, Stokely's drop rate was 4.26% Danny Amendola had a drop rate of 3.13.

You're full of shit. Welker actually drops an above average % of passes thrown his way. He's not a downfield threat. Sure, he runs good routes, but that's usually the last argument guys make when they can't explain why a WR is actually catching a bunch of balls. Ultimately, Welker's no Marvin Harrison. He runs decent routes, but they aren't amazing.

Wes Welker is a system WR - the end. I'm not convinced he's even a shred better than Danny Amendola and every rate stat bears that out, even if the raw counting stats do not.

I repeat - Wes Welker doesn't scare me.

I agree. I think Gronk and Hernandez won't be nearly as effective even if they can stay healthy.

It will be a big deal if he isn't adequately replaced by another "plus" receiver and/or Hernandez or Gronk go down AGAIN.

There's many ways to skin a cat. Other teams have won it all with lesser QBs than Tom Brady and without Wes Welker. In fact, we haven't won it ever WITH Welker.

The Patriots aren't dead meat now. It's day two of free agency. But they better spend/draft wisely, because they just lost a very, very good player who was everything you want -- consistent, tough, intelligent, talented, etc.

I think the Patriots took a big step back... look at their WR production outside of Welker in 2012. Then, take away Brandon Lloyd... now look at the numbers. They have some work to do.

As said before, if Welker is "Best WR" in the league, why didn't every GM go ****ing crazy trying to sign him?


He loves Denver so much that he will take 2 1/2 times less money? You are out of you ****ing mind!?

Yeah I'm sure Welker had KC circled

Yes, but he's painting Welker as the greatest WR in the NFL today, which is nuts.

He's a slot receiver, there isn't a huge need for a SLOT receiver out there right now, and there aren't many teams with enough cap room to manager their free agency frenzy AND the draft, while re-signing their current players.

Its a lot different than say, a Franchise QB like Peyton Manning hitting free agency.

Guess what, 32 teams didn't take a stab at Peyton Manning, why? They didn't NEED a QB, or they thought they couldn't AFFORD a Peyton Manning.

Same applies here, but your talk makes the assumption that Wes Welker is merely a product of his offense.

If that were the case Edelman would have done the same when given the opportunity, he didn't. Welker is the real deal, and the Broncos just got him on a huge discount, and every talking head in the NFL is agreeing with what I have to say right now, and disagreeing with the detractors of Wes Welker.
Are you reading this thread? Just curious.

Welcome to the AFC west, Wes. Chiefs fans look forward to your bimbo opening her specimen cup.

Well, he's also the biggest reason Matt Cassel became a Chief.... sure, he won't get you 20 yards per catch, but he's the only WR in recent years to lead the league in YAC, and in the year of Cassel, he beat out the next WR by about 200 yards. Top 10 in the league in receptions, ypg, etc; is a bit better than decent. Developing Thomas simply makes Welker more dangerous in that offense.

One game does not a team make.

Oh now you're just doubling down on stupid. Of all time? **** me - Wes Welker isn't one of the top 50 WRs to play this game. Probably not one of the top 100. There are 15 guys in the league better than him right now and at least 1 on his own team.

He's an undersized product of a pass-happy system that feeds him passes in short (of which he drops a slightly above average amount).

Tom Brady just built himself another legend. Wes Welker is the WR version of Scott ***** - nothing more. He was smart to play with Peyton where he won't be completely unmasked.

The Avery contract is reasonable.... What is with the constant bitching?

You know the answer to that.


CP

That is very likely, and you'll see Welker post a modest 75 catch, 1100 yard season, and you'll have 3 receivers posting similar stats for their team.

I'm not reading through all of that to make a point you don't understand.

Wes Welker for the last 7 years has been the most productive receiver in this league, and the most dangerous.

He isn't the best, and he isn't the most gifted wide receiver ever. He is the most productive, and the most dangerous.

That's what I said, and the NFL's statistics back me up.

He is not a system receiver, and the statistics do NOT back you up on that claim.

Because he's not a #1 or #2 receiver like I stated. He's a slot receiver. There isn't a huge market for them right now.

I'm the worst for pointing out that a division rival signed a difference maker for peanuts, while we signed scrubs for $2M a year less?

Ok.

I guess I'm already the worst in your eyes, so I'll go ahead and mention that we traded the 34th overall pick for a game manager QB in an effort to win now against the best QB in the game and his merry band of stud WR's.

One of the first sentences out of our new GM's mouth was that he wanted to "build through the draft."

Then he follows that up by getting rid of the 2nd most valuable pick we have, and in the process, completely devaluing the only 1st overall pick in team history.

You don't have a goddamn chance over the next two years with Manning at the helm, so build your ****ing team to be a ****ing dynasty when he retires. Instead, you're going to spend the two most valuable picks in franchise history on a RT and a game manager QB.

Awesome.

He's not named Geno Smith.

Jesus, you've gone back to this one.

Repeat this after me:

Wes Welker is more dangerous than Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, Julio Jones and Brandon Marshall.

Can you do that for me? Just type nothing more than that.

I need something really stupid for my signature and that should be an excellent quote.

not reading that

LETS HIRE OTWP AS CHIEFS GM

WE'D HAVE WELKER, GENO, BELICHICK, JERRY RICE AND WE'D WIN EVERY SUPER BOWL EVER!!!

Wow, Wes Welker isn't one of the best receievers of all time?

He's constantly and consistently in the record books for things Jerry Rice couldn't do, or, he beat out Jerry's records.

And now you say he's not even top 50 and maybe not even top 100?

Get out, go watch Soccer or something.

He is trying to justify his ramblings by saying that Welker is a slot receiver.

The most dangerous WR in the NFL is going to get paid no matter where he lines up.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DeumyOzKqgI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I don't know about that, but I know we wouldn't have spent the 34th overall pick and $12M on Alex Smith and Chase Daniel.

GOD YOU'RE A GURU OTWP

Wes Welker is and has been the most dangerous and productive receiver in this league. He is not a possession receiver like Johnson, or Green, he is a slot receiver. He is small, and he gets wide open better than anyone in this league, and Tom Brady and the Patriots utilized that to the fullesct extent while Welker was there.

Because of this, they were able to eliminate the pass rush, created more first downs as an offense by comparison to your other receiver's teams did against common opponents, won more often, and put up more points.

It is because of Welker's skill of getting open, that Brady and that offense could do what it did against the pass rush, neutralizing pro bowlers and future hall of famers, so they could win games.

Calvin Johnson doesn't eliminate the pass rush, neither does AJ Green, Julio Jones, Roddy White, or Brandon Marshall.


You are closed minded, and thinking inside the box.

You think my claim is based on pure talent, it isn't. AJ Green is the best receiver in this league in terms of talent, period. Calvin is #2, Fitz is #3.

Those three can't touch Welker's skills at getting open in the slot to eliminate the pass rush.

Of course, you didn't think of it that way, because you don't think about the big picture.

People here are saying, "Oh, we just need to hit manning and hurt his neck to neutralize him and Welker", you won't get a chance to hit manning because he'll have already thrown the ball to Welker because he was wide open because you blitzed him and didn't cover Welker.

"I overplayed the shit out of my hand, can't back up my mouth so I'm going to just repeat my idiocy"

Got it.

Your statistics don't back shit up, other than the fact that few WRs in the history of the NFL have had as many catchable balls fed to them over a 5 year period of time and that Welker, at his best, catches a roughly average number of them.

I understand your point - it's just really really stupid.

Dressen and Tamme can now take a back seat and that offense is going to run like 2004 Indy

Read the post I just made that you didn't read.

Too soon junior.

Christ, we're all guru's.

After watching this organization operate for the past 30 years, you learn how NOT to do things.

It doesn't take a goddamn nuclear physicist to realize that you don't win championships without drafting a developing a franchise QB and building a roster around him through the draft.

For whatever reason, this organization continues to repeat history, because they haven't learned from it.

GURU

SIGN HIM UP

GIVE HIM A HIRE

HE'S AMAZING

Agreed the Chiefs could very well be ****ed but as for Denver winning it all they better hope to hell the road to the SB is either as a road team playing in domes and good weather cities or that Denver has a heatwave in January.

You should love Alex Smith, then. Evidently check-downs get you rock hard.

Because everyone knows that all receptions are created equal, regardless of era, YPC...anything. All that matters is the raw number of catches you have, even if you're just barely average at actually catching the ball when it's thrown to you.

Please - repeat your reception figures again. I didn't hear you the first time (and address them several times).

Go ahead and convince me that Wes Welker is a better WR than, say, John Stallworth.

he would have traded a 7th for Boldin and signed Welker for league min

.http://i.imgur.com/0RtOB.png

Do you really think that Welker was being checked down to?

A vast majority of welker's no huddle receptions are plays designed to go to him.

Seriously, go watch a pats game, you're a ****ing tard.

meh, oh well. Im not scared of welker

You're really going to argue that Wes Welker has a physical skill-set that no other WR in the league can duplicate?

His first step is good - it's not great. He gets open because the routes he runs are brilliantly designed, not because he's just a damn wizard with his feet.

And you're honestly going to try to argue that a slot WR eliminates the pass rush? Wake me when we're putting Tamba Hali or Justin Houston on the slot WR.

That's just an ass-backwards argument. If anyone eliminates the pass-rush in NE, it's Rob Gronkowski, who does occupy LBs. Wes Welker does little more than draw the attention of overmatched Nickle corners. In that regard, he's no different than any slot WR; even Steve Breaston in the slot was getting teams to take a LBer off the field and bring in a nickle DB.

But hey, I respect the attempt to spin your way clear of a bullshit statement.

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet

Makes sense. Kinda. If any of this made sense. RT @jeffphowe: Welker's $12 million is fully guaranteed.

Of course they were designed to get to him. Just as pass after pass after pass was forced into him.

A check-down isn't any worse than a designed 7 yard dump.

Rep'd and sig'd.

Patriot fans should be pissed.

Nah ... Danny Amendola or whatever his name is out there. If they can keep their 2 TEs healthy and if they can get someone like Danny on board, lock up Edleman... they're crusing dude.

You don't get it, you really don't. I can't explain a philosophy to you if you lack the ability to see the WHOLE picture.

Wes Welker is the best slot receiver to ever play. One of the best receivers to ever play, period.

Lets just leave it at that, or you'll have serious trouble trying to keep up.

So then you do realize that a play designed to go 7 yards, with a release of seconds after the ball is snapped, which eliminates the rush, is a strength of someone who can get open in that time?

I'm glad you agree that Wes Welker is ****ing awesome and just became a huge boost for the Broncos who do not have a slot receiver with the same skillset, and have now eliminated our pass rush by the mere stroke of a pen.

Now get out.

Draft the best possible pass rusher and put that mother****er in on 2nd and 3rd down with Tamba and Houston.

That's really the only option now.