A short-sighted plan, which was the original discussion, but I digress...

Agreed.

Dude come the **** on already.
They tagged him believing they were going to get someone to trade a pick for him. They played poker and lost. Miami nor anyone else would give up a pick with the $ amount that Albert wanted too.

Judging ANY player based solely on their rookie season is stupid IMO.
Geno included.

So you admit they gambled and lost?

Good enough for me.

Who said anything about Geno?

Read the thread...

What they could have gotten was a third, which we will get anyway as a comp pick

There you go again talking about "plans."

Classic Carl move.

I'd rather take a pick I could trade and comes before the comp picks vs the comp pick that cant be traded.

Not to mention that 3rd rounder would have been this year, in one of the deepest drafts in a long, long time...

It's not ignoring that fact. It's not buying the logic or idea that it makes sense to build short-term in year 1 of a regime and then build long-term from that point forward.

Would have been last year actually.

If they let him walk in FA last year they might have got a 3rd round comp pick this year but they also signed 500 FAs, so...

Autocorrect.

I meant to say it COULD have been this year.

They could have traded Albert for future picks...

Would have gotten that anyway a year sooner though, no?

Yup I believe he isn't the answer.

Jets are already shaky on him. Reason he fell so far

I think getting the QB you truly want moving forward trumps all.
Building confidence within the organization that you can win with that QB cannot be overlooked either.
Try to imagine the questions that would exist had last season been a complete abortion.
There would be no trust in Smith, or Reid, or Dorsey.
As it stands now, MOST of us feel like we have a QB that we can win in the post-season with, and that is the most important thing in today's NFL.
They ****ed up on a few things, but it actually looks like they succeeded in answering the most important question that any of us could have.

IF Alex Smith is the quarterback he was over most of the second half of the season and in the playoff game, you've got a 3-4 year window with him.

His age 30 season seems like a strange year to focus on building for the future... especially considering that most of the rest of the core players are also entering the downside of their careers.

Just have to hope the brain trust has it in them to have a replacement ready to take over the reigns, like with Rodgers taking over for Favre or Kapernick taking over for Smith. If not then I guess it will be more of the same old for the Chiefs. Hopefully this staff is different than the rest.

COULD get as a comp pick...

With the contract he got, it's WILL get a comp pick.

With our core of talent and Smith at QB they better be making moves to win now...

I am at least 5 years past being able to rely on "hope" when it comes to the Chiefs and front office decisions.

So it's ok for you to call Geno a bust but everyone else calling Fisher a bust needs to wait? Excuse me while I never value your opinions again.

Any rookie that doesnt have an arrowhead on their helmet and struggles is a bust.

However, if they do have that arrowhead on their helmet they have all the talent in the world and just need time.

Well we got nothing else to rely on, unless we want to rely on Save Our Chiefs to fly banners over the NFL offices and convince them to give us a Lombardi Trophy out of sympathy for the fans.

Otherwise, hope is all we got.

Yeah, he's already admitted to being a hypocrite.

This is my concern.

Question for all those championing Fisher moving to left tackle -

What exactly did you see out of him last year that makes you excited to see him potentially line up at left tackle this season? Because I saw a guy that would occasionally make good plays, but was routinely overmatched and injured for a majority of the season, and that was on the right side playing some horrid defenses.

Convince me this move isn't a glaring view of the ineptitude of the front office in dealing with Albert. Make me excited for this move, please.

last year's FA was a stop the bleeding approach... and it worked. Probably better than they even expected. Now that they have a core, they are going to build through the draft. You, and others might not agree with it, but it seems perfectly reasonable to me.

They wanted to get butts back in the seats and they did that, now they are trying to keep butts in the seats for a good long time... not just the next year or two.

Hope in one hand, shit in the other...

Too bad they weren't playing for a championship instead...

I don't think either one is a bust. I think BOTH players were obviously guys that needed time coming out. I don't know if Fish is ready or not but I'd like him to compete for the position and prove it first...

I'll give him his fair time, as any player in this class deserves, but I never liked him. Even as a prospect before the draft.

I'm not going to rely on anything. I'm going to call it like I see it and need evidence to trust what is being done is the right thing.

Example: If they pay Alex Smith based on the playoff game and not the whole body of work, I will not believe he can bring that level of play week in, week out (and therefore be worth that salary) until I see it actually happen.

Some teams deserve hope and faith because they have an established history of being savvy and effective. The New England Patriots. The Indy Colts. The 49ers. The Tampa Rays. The Boston Red Sox. The St. Louis Cardinals. The Texas Rangers.

Some don't. The Chiefs fall in this category. Maybe Dorsey can get them into the previous category, but it's going to take time.

Until then...Show me.

Well, I think we generally all agree that we have a top notch coaching staff minus our DC perhaps.

We have all seen Dontari Poe be an absolute nobody as a rookie to blowing up in his second year. We're putting trust in the coaching staff that Fisher will have the same progress.

Just because Fisher was overmatched as a rookie does not mean that's his ceiling and the player he will be this season or for the rest of his career.

That's up to the NFL...

Of course not.

Then again, it's also possible that he's WORSE at LT than he was a RT.

Acknowledging reality isn't a bad thing and doesn't make one a pessimist.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree.

All I'm saying is, there ain't shit we can do about it. I would root for a better franchise if I had it in me, but I don't. I'm a Chiefs fan until I die, unfortunately. So I'll just keep hoping like the sucker I am.

If the Chiefs continue to sleep through the rest of FA then they will get a 3rd + a few more mid round picks.

They haven't signed shit, yet, that would even come close to making up for the loss of Albert.

Of course not. I'm open minded about this move. Fisher is going to sink or swim this year. We drafted him to play left tackle, so right or wrong that's where he's going to play. If he sucks at left tackle then I don't think it means he should have stayed at right tackle. In that case he probably just sucks either way and was a complete bust.

We're in the same boat.

The only difference is perspective.

There's a history and a somewhat understood formula for us to judge this on. It's not like the NFL can just decide on a whim. Based on the history of compensatory picks and a limited understanding of them, we are pretty likely to get a 3rd for him. We got a 3rd for Brandon Carr, I'm pretty sure we'll get a 3rd for Albert.

Smith being in the prime of his career gives this team a chance to take advantage of what our core players have left and gives the team a min. 3-4 year window to find our QBOTF.

I totally agree with the bold. The problem is the NFL doesn't release all the criteria for getting comp picks. Some, yes. We all know it's partly the value of players lost compared to value of players gained.

There's also other criteria (record? closeness to cap? playoff teams?) they use and have admitted to using that they haven't released and we don't know about...

This is definitely a possibility. The best thing we can do at this point, is to find out as soon as we can what Fisher will be, and the only way to find that out, is by playing him.
He could be horrible for all we know, and should know by mid-season.
No sense in wasting more time.

Everyone and their mother expects a 3rd round comp pick for Albert as it stands right now....

The Chiefs have lost what? 5 fulltime starters this offseason? Theyve signed 1?

Top notch? I don't know that just being better than what we had makes it top notch. I wouldn't necessarily agree with that.

I like Andy Reid, but the guy has never won a playoff game without Jim Johnson coordinating his defense. I think he's good, but I'd hesitate to say "top notch."

I think Toub is a great ST coach.

Not crazy about Sutton at DC, though I at least like his system more than Crennel's.

Re: Fisher...

You're correct that the book isn't written yet... but the first chapter sucked. Not a promising start... and one that DAMPENS expectations for him.

The odds that he's even as good at LT as Brandon Albert are lower now than when he was drafted (and even then, weren't slam-dunk level).

You were indeed right. And for being so, you may have this girl for the next 57 nights and **** her brains out...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5t-wb-RjA1...i+body+(1).jpg

I would expect the coaches to be able to watch him and Stephenson take snaps at LT in practice and be able to determine which one is the better option, and then play that guy.

It's THEIR job to figure out if he's horrible or if he can handle it.

I really don't understand this thinking.

First, I don't think Smith was a different QB in the second half of the season than he was in the first. I think the level of competition changed, the performance of his own defense changed, and so he therefore had to change the way he "managed the game".

Second. If Smith is 30, why does everyone think he only has 3 or 4 years? Romo and Brees are 34 and 35 now -are very much considered to be among the leaders in the NFL and neither show any signs of being done anytime soon.

Brady is 37 and still playing at an extremely high level. Manning at 38 is still considered the top in the league and people expect he may go 1 or 2 more seasons.

QB's don't typically retire earlier than these guys because they can't play the position anymore, they retire or are replaced because teams draft a better QB under them. If that happens with the Chiefs then what are you worried about? If someone comes along in the draft and mentors under Smith and wins the job then the window is open. If not, then Smith is still likely performing at a high level after the 3 or 4 years you guys are constantly claiming as his lifespan.

I'll grant that our coaching staff has done wonders with Poe. Even so it just means that Fisher basically has to throw away a bunch of what he learned his rookie season to learn a new position.

I hope the kid
- heals quick
- gets WAY stronger
- is a quick learner

because the defenses he's going to face this season are another level up from what he played against last season. Frankly I'd feel way more comfortable if the front office hadn't fumbled around with the Albert situation and had Fisher at left tackle last year.

There is no substitute for actual playing time, and experience in order for a player to develop, and there just isn't any way to know how a player will respond until the actual bullets start flying.
This is not debatable.

This, exactly.

4 years of play in his prime, is the MINIMUM that should be expected out of a 30 year old QB.
He's not 25, but he's also not 35, which people tend to act like.
He is in the prime of his career, and should be for half a decade.

All the more reason to play for now instead of when he's 34. It's not like he hasn't had concussion problems or anything. Look what happened to Trent Green...

Ok... he might not be in his prime past 34 but he isn't going to be fitted for a walker on his 35 bday either. If his level of play drops off we'll hopefully have a QB that has been learning from one of the smartest QB's in the league for 4or 5 years. If his play doesn't fall off drastically, then you roll with him for as long as he is able to go.

Either way, Chiefs should be in good shape at QB for quite a while.

Trent got his brains scrambled at 36 yrs old.
That would give us 6 years of Smith in his prime.

I believe that any regime should have assembled their roster, and be ready to compete for a championship by year 3.
If this team is not ready by 2015, I view it as failure.

That's just wrong, completely wrong.

He doesn't have to throw anything away.

He just has to 'mirror' the hand/foot placements of what he has learned. He has predominantly played left tackle in the past as well.

How did the front office fumble the Albert situation?

Albert wanted to be paid more than they thought he was worth.
Miami wasn't offering anymore than the Chiefs would get for a compensation pick this year.
Having a rookie start at RT is probably better than having him start at LT
we had an incredible young Oline last year that would been even more of any issue had the traded Albert.

you can make a argument that the front office handled it perfectly

Only you would try to make that argument.

Albert asking for too much?

Tag him.

Draft tackle 1.1.

Let Albert, Schwartz, and Asamoah walk out the door.

/perfect

"Ok Eric, don't forget what we taught you about form and leverage last year, just do it exactly the opposite of the way we taught you to do it last year." Sounds like he's going to have to forget a bunch of what they taught him last year.

The front office ****ed it up simply because they tagged Albert. If there was no real option or plan to keep him on long term, as obviously there wasn't now that he is in Miami, they should never have tagged him in the first place. If the plan was to take Fisher, then do it and put him at left tackle LAST year. I don't remember the Broncos putting Clady at RT to "break him in to the NFL".

The whole situation was just poorly executed, and it cost us a draft pick THIS year because they didn't think they were getting value for Albert in what Miami offered. Well surprise, Albert still ended up in Miami, and we are sitting here with our dicks in our hands. Not playing out to be one of Dorsey's better moments so far with us.

Then ****ing take it. We could have used the pick and Fisher could have used the PT.

I feel sorry for Alex. I hope he makes it past the first game

My biggest personnel goal for this team is for them to have Smith's replacement identified, and on the roster prior to 2015 season..
However long it takes him to take the reigns will depend on when Alex either falls off, or is just simply supplanted.
Regardless Smith himself should have a 4 year or so window to win a ring after 2015.
And if this team is successful at building through the draft, the new QB should be able to take over a team that can compete year in and year out.

Those Seahawk and 49er games. Lol.

I hadn't really thought out about the comp pick scenario.
Had we let Albert walk last off-season, we may not have received the comp pick.
So, yes, it could be argued that they handled it correctly.

It's a lot easier to scramble when the RT gets beat off the snap and you can actually see it happen...

I don't buy that at all. That's the "he was just holding back" argument. If you want to say he got more comfortable in the offense, fine. If you want to talk about him being more aggressive throwing the football, that's fine, too. But the "he was holding back because he didn't need to" thing? I will never buy that.

None of those guys rely as much on their legs as Alex Smith did to be effective. Smith also has had shoulder and concussion problems in the past. A flare up or reinjury of either could be a big problem for his long-term health.

The bigger issue, that I was trying to call out, is that with the exception of Justin Houston and MAYBE Eric Fisher (who hasn't proven he is even competent yet), all the rest of the "core" players are guys who are nearing the end of their prime/hitting the wrong side of 30.

It seems like a strange time to switch to a long-term build approach.

Ya... no.

The Chiefs tagged Albert long before they drafted Fisher.

The Dolphins were rumored to be offering a 3rd.

Any 3rd > comp pick.

Why not hold out in hopes for a second with the consolation prize being Fisher having a year to adjust, put on weight, and have a year in the strength program before having to protect the blind side of the QB that you just traded two 2nds for.
Not to mention having the goal of winning as many games as possible to instill confidence within the organization and fan base in said QB.
Like I said, had Smith had a shitty season last year, we would be having a completely different discussion.

Are you stupid or something?

It's going to be brutal if he plays like he did last year.

But we got nothing in return for a left tackle we franchise tagged last year. Dorsey ****ed this up.

No, we wouldn't.

There would still be a ton of people saying "just give them a chance. The jury is still out."

But why? We're going to get a 3rd rd comp pick for Albert, same as what we would have gotten.

I think they wanted to dish him out, but him staying helped us a lot. I think that Albert showing him the ropes last year is gonna help Fisher this year.

Its not even close to the same.

It's not a long term approach IMO.
This team has the talent to compete for championships next season.
Our core players should get their window.
To be a good/great team you have to draft well to have guys in place to take over as core players.
Guys are always going to be getting old. It's up to the FO to draft well to have new guys to take over.

Of course there would, but fact is, we are not having that conversation are we?

I agree it was muffed. But we are getting a 3rd as a comp pick.

But I would like jd and others to explain to me why a third rnd comp pick is no where near the same?

Had we straight up let Albert walk last off-season, instead of franchising him for a year, we probably would not be getting a pick at all because of the FAs we signed.

Its pretty simple.

A 3rd round pick is TRADEABLE. A comp pick IS NOT.

Nevermind the fact that the Dolphins have the 81st pick in the 3rd, 15 picks before the comp picks even start rolling out. But we wont even get the pick til next year.