Dumbest shit I ever heard.

Let me tell you how it really went down...

Kraft "were gonna cheat the cap and cut your cap number in half and I'll pay you the other half as my personnel hair consultant. I've already told Roger about it and he will approve the contract.

Tom "Sweet."

Right, the cheating Cheatriots cheat so they cheated and asterisk, asterisk, asterisk. Got it!

I really like how you describe Goodell as being in Kraft's back pocket in your "how it really went down" immediately after Goodell hammered them ridiculously in Deflategate. If Goodell is in Kraft's pocket, he has a poor way of showing it. But ignore facts that would easily explain why Brady didn't chase every last dollar, and go with your blind hatred. Hardly matters to me.

Look,

I don't really care if Brady is taking 50% of his value because "he wants to win", "his wife is rich", and "he's just a super swell guy."

It's still cheating. So, one Randy Billionaire some day makes the NFL and is the next Tom Brady and decides money doesn't matter and plays for the league minimum with no guarantees his entire career while being the best in the game ... that's fair, eh?

Brady basically cheats the cap by $10M (2-3 elite players) every year. NO ONE ELSE DOES THIS. Not Peyton, not Drew, not Eli, not Ben, not Aaron ... no one.

So any way you shake it it is a total bullshit contract. Good intentions or not.

I don't really like that, either ... but he did that because the Spurs refuse to pay a luxury tax. The NBA has a SOFT cap, not a hard cap like the NFL. The only thing he did was save his owner money. Brady, in the HARD CAP NFL, is freeing up $10+M per year in contracts they can give to STAR players.

While I 100% think Brady is going to get paid for years and years after he retires from the NFL by the Patriots, even if he ISN'T, and these contracts are truly so he can free up more space so the Pats can have that built in advantage ... it's still bullshit.

So Tim Duncan and the Spurs are also cheating?

Every player who leaves money on the table is cheating?


I do agree with you however that what Brady agreed to gives the Patriots a competitive advantage. It may also be fundamentally unfair, because his wife's ridiculous wealth puts him in a position that no other QB enjoys -- the ability to basically make no money and still be absurdly rich. If I were the Ravens or Steelers or PeytonManning's team, I wouldn't be very happy about it.

Maybe there should be rules around it, though God knows how you would draft them. What system could you possibly have? It would be very difficult. The concept that Brady (or some other superstar who doesn't need money) could play on a veteran minimum contract is definitely troubling.

I think Big Ben is in the true franchise elite status right now. The guy balled out hard last year with problems on his team.

Not exactly, at least according to this article

Andrew Luck for 5 first round picks. And not even give a second thought

ROFL

I wonder if there are rules about players getting paid by the owner in other ways (consultant, advertising, etc.) as well.

I don't really care at this point.

If more than just Brady were doing it, it would be one thing. But literally every other QB plays for market value, if not higher, other than arguably the best QB in the league ... who plays for considerably less than Alex Smith.

At least he makes SOMETHING, though. Can't wait until a rich QB decides he's going to play for vet min to really make me super happy about it.

ROFL Comedy. Wilson had 20 less touchdowns than Luck and 18 less than Rodgers. He had 1,200 yards less than Luck and 900 less than Rodgers.


But yeah, they're totally in the same tier. Totally.

I dont' know off hand, but the rules must cover all compensation in any way, shape or form. Otherwise, the rule would be meaningless. Teams could give star players "contracts" with their other businesses, or personally, and then the whole system collapses. Can't work that way.

I'd really like to see a standard contract for the entire league that pays players a league minimum and then has performance clauses all over the place. I'd like the NFL's winningest teams to be the ones that know the most about football rather than the ones that do the most creative accounting.

It would be rather simple, and composed of two parts.

Part 1. Minimum base salary. Starts with the rookie minimum and then rises with each year of seniority.

Part 2. Performance clauses. Each position gets performance factors identified, and you make $X for reaching each tier. A neutral third party tracks the stats. You'd probably build in a factor that is "percent of team's performance" so that players wouldn't get unduly penalized for going to a bad team, i.e., being a wide receiver when Matt Cassel is your quarterback.


Let's stop Elway from playing for league minimum and then getting cushy jobs with the team for the next 20 years.

Every other QB is the main breadwinner. Brady's position is unique due to the extreme wealth of his wife.

You're right -- what if Aaron Rodgers says to himself he's making a killing with endorsements and made plenty through the years, time to take vet minimum and WIN BABY? There's nothing to stop him.

I like the pay for performance type stuff rain man.

It'll never happen, but I like it.

Boss is the most dramatic guy I've ever came across but there are a few things here you must consider:

1) The Patriots cheat. This has been proven now. Twice.

2) How's it going to look in 5 years when Brady is a retired team employee?

I do know that rich guys don't just take less because they have a rich wife. And are we really to believe that Tom/Gisele are forever, ever, ever? I am fairly certain they both have their own prenups (I could be wrong, who knows).

But it is impossible to prove. So cheating isn't the right word, but, as Amnorix has pointed out, it is an unfair competitive advantage which sucks for the rest of the NFL.

Yeah, I don't get the rage for brady doing it. If it's such an advantage,other teams should tell their qbs to do it or get bent.

pay for performance would never work

Marshawn Lynch would punch coaches for taking TD's away from him on the 1

receivers would constantly cry about not getting enough balls

rush backers would never agree to drop back into coverage

it would be a total shit show

Side note:

1. who has won the most Super Bowls in the free agency/salary cap era by a mile? Bill Belichick.

2. who has an ECONOMICS degree from college? Bill Belichick.

Unrelated? Nope, they sure aren't. When the 4-3 was all the rage in the early 2000s, Belichick built a 3-4 defense. Law of supply and demand. Those big DLs and two-gappers? Nobody else really wanted them.

Now, the league is trending much more to 3-4, and what do we see? Patriots are heading toward 4-3. Where the league has more demand and less supply, the Patriots move away from that and go to where he can get more bang for his buck using a different system to win.

"Hey Andrew, you're going to take $8M a year, or get bent!"

...LMAO

Pretty sure FRANCHISE QB'S have all of the leverage, not the organization.

"Hey Andrew, get bent!"

31 other teams offer him 100% guaranteed $150M contract within 5 minutes

3. Who has been busted for two major cheating scandals within the last decade?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...1ed9dd4e8d.jpg

The other advantage of this system, which the league would really like, is that it'll force declining players out the door sooner. If you keep having to pay more and more for a Charles Woodson or a Jerry Rice or a Bruce Smith, with no option to lower his cost, eventually he'll get forced out of the league and will be less likely to sue for medical reasons later.

One potential challenge to this is whether it would be age discrimination, but I'll let the courts decide that. The fact that there's an increasing vet minimum now may mean that it's okay.

Sure, but then go be smart and spend the money to build a better team.

QBs just don't s3em to be the force multipliers they once were.

They do have these franchises over a barrel because therr are a drought of that type of player around, but the franchise doesn't have to pay it either.

Wilson had 200 less attempts.

This is a Jamaal Charles vs Adrian Peterson/Marshawn Lynch/Lesean McCoy argument here. Jamaal almost always has less yards than those guys, sometimes by a wide margin. He's probably the best out of the group, though (aside from AP).

Then I guess they can go put their communications degrees to work and find another career.

Never thought of it this way.

Thanks for that insight. Truly, no bullshit.

you have got to explain to me why you keep using 3's instead of e's

it's driving me insane

pay for performance by team wins would be something that might work ok ... but then you'd have players refusing to play for the Browns and Chiefs and it would turn into the NBA where you'd have about 10 super teams and 22 shitty teams

pay for individual performance would ruin the league ... I think you'd see more fights between the same team on the field than guys fighting their opponents

hell, that would actually be kind of entertaining. Let's do it!

Other than AP, LeSean and Jamaal have comparable totals. They all range within 1100-1500 yards per season. Luck, Wilson, and Rodgers don't have comparable totals in the least bit. Luck and Rodgers are comparable. Wilson isn't close at all.

And even if you go by yards per attempt, in 2014:

Aaron Rodgers: 8.4
Luck: 7.7
Wilson: 7.7

And it's not Rodgers, or Lucks fault they're given more responsibilities and have to carry their teams more than Wilson has to carry his. If Wilson has a game where he has 150 yards and 0 touchdowns, chances are the game will still be close and the Seahawks can still win. If Rodgers or Luck have those types of games, they likely get blown out.

3 years from now these comparisons between Wilson and Luck will be absolutely LAUGHABLE.

They kind of already are. If Luck was with the Seahawks, they'd blow teams out every single game. He'd have at least 2 superbowls right now. I mean, Wilson only needed 174 yards per game in his SB winning post season. How many QBs in the league would be unable to do that?

I'm not sure why you'd include the YPA stat there. Does that not prove my point? (Besides the fact that A Rod is a ****ing beast- although, if I'm not mistaken, Tony Romo led the league in YPA last season).

Wilson and Luck have comparable YPA stats. While Luck consistently throws for 4,500+ yards he also consistently throws 600+ passes whereas Wilson is lucky to attempt 450. You can't blame Luck and Rodgers for being asked to throw more passes just like you can't fault Wilson for not being asked to throw more passes.

He's more than capable.

yeah, and when they're not, I'm sure we'll hear back from you

I feel like the Wilson bashers on here look at a box score rather than watch the games. That's the only explanation.

That's ridiculous. LMAO

Yeah, you're right. The Hawks would be 57-0 the past 3 years with Luck. 3 Super Bowls. No doubt.

LMAO
LMAO
LMAO

Good God man.

more than likely, Luck would get the same excuses he gets in Indy and everyone would say, "well come on! Look at who he's throwing to!"

I'd argue the Hawks would have ZERO Super Bowls with Andrew Luck. Considering the 49ers were better than the Hawks two years ago and it took a HELL OF A SMART play by Wilson to beat them in the NFCCG. I don't think Luck wins that game.

A ridiculous hypothetical, none the less.

If that's the case, Peyton Manning would have won 12 Super Bowls with Belichick. For sure! I know it! Yep!

SEA offense last season was nearly the same ability at scoring points as 2012 49ers.

Basically what I expect KC to do this year. Just inside top 10 in points per drive.

Comparing the Colts and Seahawks, which team would you rather play for?

I like Wilson, but if he's as good as you preach, Seattle should have won 3 SBs by now.

I'm on my phone and the 3 is right above the e and I'm lazy to fix it.

that's fair LMAO

I've seen it like 3 times and didn't know if it was some sort of thing you do lol

Sometimes I don't catch it, sometimes I do but I let it ride because it pisses SNR off so I do it anyway

How exactly would they not be better? Is Luck a better QB than Wilson? Yes. Does the Seahawks defense make it EXTREMELY easy for a QB to win there? Yes.

Seahawks allow 18 points per game in the playoffs past three years. They allowed 13 points per game during the superbowl run. Yeah, I can't believe Wilson is able to overcome that.

There's a huge disparity between the Colts running game and defense to the Hawks.

Luck on the 2013 Hawks team would have won the SB.

Alex Smith also had a season where he had 8 yards per attempt. I guess he's in the same tier too.

Just cause the averages are close doesn't mean that a player would be able to sustain it if his workload increased. I don't think Wilson would be as good as Luck if his workload and responsibilities were to suddenly increase.

I just repped you LAUGHABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!! So you can find it to make me eat crow.

Conversely, Wilson's play aids the defense. He is really good in the read option game paired with lynch.

I don't know man. The Seahawks allowed 13 whole points per game! How do you overcome that?

He also had 849 yards rushing.

I mean come on.

Best D in the NFL. Top 3 Rushing attack. Top 10 OL. Top 10 ST's.
Percy Harvin and Golden Tate at WR with a couple of decent WR's (Baldwin/Kearse) added.

a lot of QB's would have won the SB on that team. It was such a good team that they didn't even need the QB to carry them they were so talented.

I'd like to see luck run the read option. I think he could do it pretty well.

Not Kaepernick but pretty solid.

Not really any reason for him too though

I think Luck has the potential to be the best ever. Maybe. Right now? Wilson > Luck.

Luck is better at getting every excuse in the book when he plays poorly, though. I'll give him that.

I would take Luck over Wilson based off potential, no doubt. And size. But right now, Wilson is better.

When asked to make big plays or carry them, wilson has come up big in big games though.

ROFL

Top 3 rushing attack ... because the QB. The OL is overrated. Yawn on special teams.

Percy Harvin played 1 MEANINGFUL GAME in his entire Seattle career. 1. You're trying to act like Percy Harvin meant anything to Seattle? Uhm, after they traded him they didn't lose a ****ing game until the Super Bowl. But you're right, they had Golden Tate.

Man.

Russell really had it made with Golden Tate in 2013. And 1 game of Percy Harvin. Wow! I could have won a Super Bowl with that team.

So....he still has less than Rodgers and Luck. Even if you don't add their rushing totals also.

I'm curious, based on what?

Wilson isn't as good in the pocket, its pretty close out of the pocket.

Wilson is a better runner but again, luck isn't asked to do it, dunno if he can or not.

I just don't see anyway wilson is better than luck right now. And I hate luck.

I think wilson and his rookie contract make him a top 10 QB because of what he himself brings as a player and what that contract allowed them to do.

LOL.

And when Wilson plays poorly.... he still wins because he has a defense that can keep a game manageable when he throws 4 INTs. When Luck throws multiple INTs, the opposing team scores 40.

So...you just conveniently left out nearly 1,000 yards of total offense.

Those don't count.. Or something like that.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/writer...till-just-good

It's an article just before the SB and it's from prisco, but there's some good stuff in therr from former players and people around the league.

And he threw 4 INTs targeting Jermaine Kearse ... who caused 2 of the 4. 1 of them was bad. Probably as bad as the 1 Aaron Rodgers threw in the 1st half.

You're referencing 1 game. And it's also the same game where he scored 3 TD's in 5 minutes in 3 drives to win and get his team to another Super Bowl.

...and how did Andrew's team do against the Patriots over in the AFCCG?

I'm so tired of 1 guy getting every excuse while the other guy gets the exact opposite treatment.

It's been done for 10 years on this board with Brady and Peyton.

So at least the board is consistent.

Now? Aaron and Luck can do no wrong. Russell? Hell, one guy calls him Russell Dilfer on here. So insane.

Wilson threw 7 INTs all year. He never threw more than 2 in a game. You watch football, right?

Not really. I'm comparing apples to apples. When I talk about Mike Vick, I don't add in his rushing totals in order to make him look like a great QB. So I won't do the same for Wilson. That's a luxury he has, and that's fine. But if I'm comparing two QBs, for the most part, I will talk about their passing abilities and numbers.

And like I said, even if you do include his rushing, Lucks' and Rodger's passing yards alone are greater. And they still have double digit touchdowns over him.

Luck had 300 yards (about) rushing and 3 tds in 2014. Not totally pedestrian himself.

and Ron Jaworski called Wilson the MVP of the NFL last year

I'm to the point where I watch as much football as Pete ****ing Prisco so I don't really give a shit about the opinions of these guys

and honestly? Did Prisco play QB? Because I know Jaworski did.

He threw 4 interceptions in the NFCCG.

So leading the NFL in yards per carry while racking up 849 yards and 6 TDs isn't a huge part of what makes him great?

But hey! He threw those 2 great passes at the end that won them the game! That makes him a great quarterback! Nevermind the interceptions that put them in that position in the first place. Nevermind the defense that kept Aaron Rodgers in check and allowed Wilson to have that opportunity. Nevermind a punter had to throw a touchdown in order to get to that point. Nevermind the greenbay tight end that dropped the onside kick to ice the game.

Just focus on those 2 plays and you'll see Wilson was great.

He's pretty connected around the league and broke down Wilson's play with videos and commentary from players of opposing defenses.

I myself don't really care if a guy played the position or not. Dilfer did and I think he's a goon sometimes too

Sure I guess if you want to include rushing stats as part of how you evaluate quarterbacks.

If that's the case, how far does Alex Smith go up in the rankings? He's a decent running QB. He had 430 yards with 5.7YPC in 2013. Was he elite that year too?

Ron Jaworski the same guy that said Colin Kaepernick will be one of the greatest QBs to ever play football?



Yeah....

Long term, I take Luck. He's the prototypical QB with the prototypical size. After 3 years, Russell has been the best QB of that draft class.

This board has overrated Andrew Luck to the nth degree. He was really good last year, but he wasn't great. He still makes a lot of mistakes guys like Peyton Manning don't make. He still gets inexplicably crushed in games he shouldn't lose.

In his last 4 games of the season, they went 3-1. He posted QBRs of 38, 30, 11 and 50.

They beat Cleveland, Houston and Tennessee.

Wilson has the better team ... but Wilson also doesn't play in the AFC ****ING SOUTH.

Hypocrites.

It's tough for me in the wilson vs luck debate because we just haven't seen wilson be asked to throw it that much and take that much risk. However, just because he hasn't been asked too, doesn't mean he cant. I think he can, but back to the question, do you believe he can enough to make him the highest paid player in the league?

Tough.

And Rodgers couldn't do shit with the 5 extra possessions. What's your point? If Aaron was so much better, the Packers should have won. He didn't even sniff 200 yards in the biggest game of the year in a game where Seattle kept giving him the ball. Does he get a pass?

7 play 70 yard TD drive
4 play 50 yard TD drive
6 play 87 yard TD drive (OT)

to end the game

in the NFC Championship Game

...but I guess we can talk about those 20 missed shots Jordan had in Game 6 of 1998 when he was terrible in the fourth quarter until the last 3 minutes

...but it's good to see Aaron Rodgers gets a pass for this game since Seattle's defense is just too good, I Guess

Brady tore up that elite defense pretty easily in the Super Bowl

...but apparently they were too tough for poor Aaron Rodgers ...

and Andrew Luck! That 12-33 against New England with 120 yards and 0 TD's and 2 INT's in the AFCCG ... what could he do?!?!?!?!! 1 against 53!

12-33 is fine

but throwing 4 picks and then winning the game with 3 clutch drives proves he's not as good as Luck

I think

...whatttttt

They do play in a shit division where he basically gets thr Peyton treatment in that they'll win 12 every year or so and make the playoffs.

Wilson plays in a tough division but has a much better team.

I watch alot of football like you and like you said I feel I have a decent idea of what I'm watching. They're just different types of qbs.

So let me get this straight: John Schneider and Pete Carroll, two guys that have had excellent results since being hired, which include two Super Bowl appearance and one victory, are now wrong if they let Wilson hit free agency? How does that work?

From Sports Illustrated's Robert Klemko this morning:

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/06/22/nfl-ch...well-eagles/6/

3. I think the Seahawks ultimately will franchise Russell Wilson in 2016 after his rookie contract expires, then let him walk in free agency. Based on the numbers I’m hearing out of the current contract talks, Wilson wants to be paid like the type of quarterback who would excel in any offense, without a world-class defense and an All-Pro running back. And despite all of Wilson’s successes, I don’t think John Schneider and his coaches are convinced he’s that kind of quarterback.

I will give Luck some credit for his clutch play in the Pro Bowl.