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cosmo20002 11-09-2015 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat (Post 11872237)
9. Alex Gordon – Royals. Five years, $105MM. Gordon was drafted second overall by the Royals in 2005, one pick after Upton. He has become one of the game’s best left fielders, combining elite defense with excellent on-base skills and decent pop. Gordon’s left-handed bat would look great in a lot of lineups, but most MLBTR writers expect him to remain in Kansas City. How far will the World Champion Royals push the hometown discount? We feel Gordon’s earning power is around $100MM, so it’s hard to picture him accepting something below $75MM.

I honestly don't think I've seen any writer, national or local, predict he'll stay here. Guess I'm not looking in the right places.

tmw4h5 11-09-2015 06:26 PM
If we hit on just a few players out of the list of Mondesi, Starling, Zimmer, Dozier, Griffin, Almonte, Binford, Bonifacio, Blewett, Cuthbert, Russell, Watson -- I don't see a reason why this window has to close and why we have to go into rebuilding mode. Sure, if 2017 rolls around and we're playing poorly by the break, by all means, trade away some pieces that we know we won't be able to re-sign. But, I don't see a reason for a complete breakdown of operations and a full rebuild.

(KC Royals prospect Bubba Starling is continuing his 2015 breakout at the plate by hitting .308/.326/.558 with four home runs in 14 games in the Arizona Fall League (AFL) - from Royals Review),

RealSNR 11-09-2015 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 11872891)
Uh oh, Twins looking to add some pop

Win the rights to bargain with Korean slugger Byrug Ho Park


http://mweb.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on...-byung-ho-park
They've already got some pop in their hitting. The trick is going to be finding a spot in the field for either Sano or this new guy. They can't both be DH (and if they are, it's kind of a waste of resources)

cosmo20002 11-09-2015 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 (Post 11872757)
This team is going to be rebuilding after 2017. We may never see a core group of guys like this again in our lifetimes. Why not sellout to keep Gordon and Zobrist, enter 2016 and likely 2017 as WS favorites, and who cares if that screws us for a few years after 2017?

Opportunities for a 4-year WS run basically never come along for a team like the Royals. We have to go for this.
That's basically how I feel. Keeping the team a top contender the next two years also helps keep the revenue coming in through attendance, hopefully those postseason games, and of course that next TV contract. Spend $ to make $.

I hope Dayton doesn't think that his near-perfect record on acquisitions the past couple years is going to last forever and that he can find a couple replacements for Gordon and Z if he just crunches the sabermetrics hard enough.

Pitt Gorilla 11-09-2015 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmw4h5 (Post 11872904)
If we hit on just a few players out of the list of Mondesi, Starling, Zimmer, Dozier, Griffin, Almonte, Binford, Bonifacio, Blewett, Cuthbert, Russell, Watson -- I don't see a reason why this window has to close and why we have to go into rebuilding mode. Sure, if 2017 rolls around and we're playing poorly by the break, by all means, trade away some pieces that we know we won't be able to re-sign. But, I don't see a reason for a complete breakdown of operations and a full rebuild.

(KC Royals prospect Bubba Starling is continuing his 2015 breakout at the plate by hitting .308/.326/.558 with four home runs in 14 games in the Arizona Fall League (AFL) - from Royals Review),
I've been beating this drum for a while, but the competitive balance draft has been boning us. We've been insanely unlucky in the past two years, missing out completely on a pick. That could have really helped us going forward (down the road).

WhawhaWhat 11-10-2015 07:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 11872891)
Uh oh, Twins looking to add some pop

Win the rights to bargain with Korean slugger Byrug Ho Park


http://mweb.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on...-byung-ho-park
Also a bat flip superstar. Hope to see that over here just not against the Royals.

http://mlbfancave.mlb.com/assets/ima...g_pj7gux6z.gif

duncan_idaho 11-10-2015 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmw4h5 (Post 11872904)
If we hit on just a few players out of the list of Mondesi, Starling, Zimmer, Dozier, Griffin, Almonte, Binford, Bonifacio, Blewett, Cuthbert, Russell, Watson -- I don't see a reason why this window has to close and why we have to go into rebuilding mode. Sure, if 2017 rolls around and we're playing poorly by the break, by all means, trade away some pieces that we know we won't be able to re-sign. But, I don't see a reason for a complete breakdown of operations and a full rebuild.

(KC Royals prospect Bubba Starling is continuing his 2015 breakout at the plate by hitting .308/.326/.558 with four home runs in 14 games in the Arizona Fall League (AFL) - from Royals Review),
2018 looks to be a rebuilding year, but it be a quick turnaround rebuild if a few things go well, rather than a complete descent into the suck.

Ventura and Perez will still be there. If one of Zimmer/Almonte becomes an effective MLB starter in the next two seasons, 40 percent of your starting rotation is home-grown and cost-controlled. Even if they do rip up Salvy's contract and say, double it, he's still an extreme bargain.

They need one of Starling/Bonifacio to become an effective every day player who can provide some offense.

And they Mondesi to be what they think he can be (a great defensive shortstop who is a plus bat at the position... .280/15/.330 OBP/.450 SLG type).

One way or the other, KC looks to be in line for a SLEW of compensation picks following 2017, unless the CBA is drastically changed.

Hosmer
Moustakas
Duffy
Davis
Escobar
Cain

All guys who would likely command a QO and still get signed elsewhere.

I could see them working out extensions for Davis and one of Cain/Moustakas when the time comes... which also would make that 2018 window a little more open.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 11872891)
Uh oh, Twins looking to add some pop

Win the rights to bargain with Korean slugger Byrug Ho Park


http://mweb.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on...-byung-ho-park
Said player was out-performed in the Korean league by former major leaguer Marcus Thames this year. He's a quality prospect, but I don't think he's Jose Abreu.

The Twins will still have to agree to terms with Park, and that's no guarantee.

Minnesota might have to trade Trevor Plouffe, who has been a solid player for the Twins, to make things work if they do sign Park.

ReynardMuldrake 11-10-2015 10:07 AM
To give you an idea of how far we've come, this article is from Dec. 2012. Amazing that we've almost doubled our payroll since then.

Quote:
By BOB DUTTON
The Kansas City Star

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Royals owner David Glass created a stir recently in revealing $70 million to be the budgeted break-even point for the club’s 2013 payroll.

Well, the financial pinch is a lot tighter than initially believed.

That $70 million includes far more than salaries allocated to the 25-man roster for opening day. Club officials say it encompasses the entire 40-man roster and also includes the signing bonus limits for the draft and international spending.

That reduces the break-even point for the 25-man roster – the figure generally used for comparison purposes in public discussions – to roughly $57 million. The draft and international limits under the new labor agreement comprise about $10 million.

It also means, as things currently stand, the Royals are already over budget since the projected payroll for their 25-man roster is roughly $65 million.

Glass expressed willingness to subsidize the payroll at a moderate level, which he said he has often done in the past, but the numbers explain why general manager Dayton Moore believes any further payroll additions will likely require corresponding cuts.

“I’ve always been willing to spend whatever cash we’ve generated on payroll,” Glass said, “and I’ve even been willing to subsidize it under conditions where we have an opportunity to be competitive in our division. I’ve never changed from that.”

While top club officials, present and past, affirm Glass’ contention that he doesn’t pocket an operating profit, those assertions are a stark contrast to figures published by Forbes magazine, which contend Glass made about $100 million from 2000-11.

Major League Baseball has long contended the Forbes figures, which are calculated without access to club financial statements, are wildly inaccurate.

“Mr. Glass has gone above and beyond,” Moore said, “in supporting our team in everything we’ve wanted to do internationally, through the draft and in building and improving our major-league payroll. He’s been extremely supportive.

“We’ve signed virtually every single player who we’ve identified as being worthy of a long-term contract. Does he ask tough questions? Yeah, but there’s not anybody I’ve ever met who is more passionate or a better historian of the game. He owns a major-league team for all of the right reasons.”

Saul Good 11-10-2015 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 11873805)
2018 looks to be a rebuilding year, but it be a quick turnaround rebuild if a few things go well, rather than a complete descent into the suck.

Ventura and Perez will still be there. If one of Zimmer/Almonte becomes an effective MLB starter in the next two seasons, 40 percent of your starting rotation is home-grown and cost-controlled. Even if they do rip up Salvy's contract and say, double it, he's still an extreme bargain.

They need one of Starling/Bonifacio to become an effective every day player who can provide some offense.

And they Mondesi to be what they think he can be (a great defensive shortstop who is a plus bat at the position... .280/15/.330 OBP/.450 SLG type).

One way or the other, KC looks to be in line for a SLEW of compensation picks following 2017, unless the CBA is drastically changed.

Hosmer
Moustakas
Duffy
Davis
Escobar
Cain

All guys who would likely command a QO and still get signed elsewhere.

I could see them working out extensions for Davis and one of Cain/Moustakas when the time comes... which also would make that 2018 window a little more open.



Said player was out-performed in the Korean league by former major leaguer Marcus Thames this year. He's a quality prospect, but I don't think he's Jose Abreu.

The Twins will still have to agree to terms with Park, and that's no guarantee.

Minnesota might have to trade Trevor Plouffe, who has been a solid player for the Twins, to make things work if they do sign Park.
QOs are interesting to me, as teams clearly have not figured out how to use them effectively. The last I had seen, not a single player had accepted one. That means teams aren't using them enough, thus a lot of picks are being left on the table. If nobody is accepting the offers, they aren't being issued often enough.

mikeyis4dcats. 11-10-2015 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 11873835)
QOs are interesting to me, as teams clearly have not figured out how to use them effectively. The last I had seen, not a single player had accepted one. That means teams aren't using them enough, thus a lot of picks are being left on the table. If nobody is accepting the offers, they aren't being issued often enough.
I think some of it is no one wants to be THAT guy, the first to accept one. QOs seem to me to be regarded as lowball offers for the most part. Those that are close to being worth the money aren't getting one because they are signing deals anyhow, only big money players are getting them, and more as a formality.

siberian khatru 11-10-2015 12:04 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash">#Royals</a> officials privately more optimistic about keeping Ben Zobrist than teams&#39; other big free agents -- Gordon or Cueto.</p>&mdash; Jerry Crasnick (@jcrasnick) <a href="https://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/664134712626192384">November 10, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

RealSNR 11-10-2015 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by siberian khatru (Post 11874071)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash">#Royals</a> officials privately more optimistic about keeping Ben Zobrist than teams&#39; other big free agents -- Gordon or Cueto.</p>&mdash; Jerry Crasnick (@jcrasnick) <a href="https://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/664134712626192384">November 10, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I don't think anybody was expecting Cueto, but Zobrist over Gordon is a bit of a shock to me.

Bowser 11-10-2015 12:06 PM
Haven't read the thread in a bit, but is the rumor of Joe Maddon wanting Alex in Chicago still going strong?

Saul Good 11-10-2015 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser (Post 11874077)
Haven't read the thread in a bit, but is the rumor of Joe Maddon wanting Alex in Chicago still going strong?
They really don't have a spot for him unless they want to move a gold glover to RF.

duncan_idaho 11-10-2015 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 11874079)
They really don't have a spot for him unless they want to move a gold glover to RF.

I was told they talked to him about RF when converting him in the minors, but he wasn't comfortable reading fly balls on "that" side of the field.

I'd be shocked if he signed somewhere knowing they plan to move him to RF.

Re: More QOs...

I think teams are very judicious with them because you don't want to get stuck with a marginal guy.

From the players side, it might seem a little too close to the pre-Curt Flood days for some. I think we see some accepted this year.

cosmo20002 11-10-2015 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 11873835)
QOs are interesting to me, as teams clearly have not figured out how to use them effectively. The last I had seen, not a single player had accepted one. That means teams aren't using them enough, thus a lot of picks are being left on the table. If nobody is accepting the offers, they aren't being issued often enough.
I'm not sure they are really meant or expected to be accepted. It fits such a narrow range of players, so narrow that nobody has ever accepted.

Pretty much anyone good enough to be offered a 1-yr deal worth $15M is going to be good enough to be offered multiple years at $15M or more as a free agent, so why would they ever take the deal.

It seems to only possibly fit a player right on the edge of the $15M market value, where he thinks that taking a 1 yr deal and having a good year will catapult them into a much higher range the next year. But even then, do you pass up multi-years at $15M as a free agent to take 1 yr at $15M in hopes of later getting multi years at $20M, when you risk injury or a bad year and ending up with multi-years at $5M?

Saul Good 11-10-2015 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 11874085)
I was told they talked to him about RF when converting him in the minors, but he wasn't comfortable reading fly balls on "that" side of the field.

I'd be shocked if he signed somewhere knowing they plan to move him to RF.

Re: More QOs...

I think teams are very judicious with them because you don't want to get stuck with a marginal guy.

From the players side, it might seem a little too close to the pre-Curt Flood days for some. I think we see some accepted this year.
You're almost certainly correct regarding the reasoning behind teams not offering more, but the teams are wrong, IMO. It's like bluffing in poker. If you never get called, you aren't bluffing enough. We know that players tend not to want one year offers. Give them out liberally, and if you end up overpaying a player by $2,000,000 here and there, so be it. Until the numbers change, the small risk of slightly overpaying a player is worth the opportunity to stock up on high draft picks.

Saul Good 11-10-2015 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 (Post 11874114)
I'm not sure they are really meant or expected to be accepted. It fits such a narrow range of players, so narrow that nobody has ever accepted.

Pretty much anyone good enough to be offered a 1-yr deal worth $15M is going to be good enough to be offered multiple years at $15M or more as a free agent, so why would they ever take the deal.

It seems to only possibly fit a player right on the edge of the $15M market value, where he thinks that taking a 1 yr deal and having a good year will catapult them into a much higher range the next year. But even then, do you pass up multi-years at $15M as a free agent to take 1 yr at $15M in hopes of later getting multi years at $20M, when you risk injury or a bad year and ending up with multi-years at $5M?
That's sort of my point. Even a guy who is worth $10mm a year is likely to reject a single year deal of $15mm in order to secure a longer contact. It's an inefficiency in the market that has yet to be exploited. Worst case scenario, you slightly overpay a player for one year. The upside is a free first round draft pick.

Saul Good 11-10-2015 05:25 PM
So it sounds like the Reds are having a fire sale. Joey Votto is owed $200,000,000 over the next 8 years. How much would the Reds have to eat in order to make it worthwhile to take him?

I'd say $40,000,000 or so would make it tempting. 8 years at $20,000,000 AAV?

Nightfyre 11-10-2015 05:45 PM
I would hate to have the Royals fall off the front page so soon, so I will post a hypothetical again:

Royals Push Payroll to 155M

Existing payroll is 97M
Deal Dyson/Infante (-8, 89)
Offer Holland a three year deal (4/5.5/10[M.O.]) (+4,93)
Offer Gordon an extension (5/85) (+17,110)
Offer Zobrist an extension (4/52) (+13,123)
Offer Heyward a contract (10/200, Player options starting at year 7)(+20,143)
Offer Latos* a contract (1/10M)(+10, 153M total)

Note: Latos takes a one year deal in a pitchers park with the best defense in baseball behind him. He takes this deal because he needs to rebuild his reputation. The Royals straighten his ass out in the clubhouse and Latos moves on to a huge contract next year. Royals tender a QO and get a pick for their troubles.

C: Perez, Butera
1B: Hosmer, Morales
2B: Zobrist, Colon
SS: Escobar
3B: Moustakas, Cuthbert
OF: Gordon, Cain, Heyward, Orlando, Gore

SP: Ventura, Volquez, Medlen, Duffy, Latos
RP: Davis, Herrera, Hochevar, XXX,XXX,XXX


Then it's just a matter of stocking up the pen again.

WhawhaWhat 11-10-2015 05:54 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">AL MVP, top 3 (alphabetically): Lorenzo Cain, Josh Donaldson, Mike Trout. Winner announced Nov. 19.</p>&mdash; BBWAA (@officialBBWAA) <a href="https://twitter.com/officialBBWAA/status/664228945253003264">November 10, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

KCCHIEFS27 11-10-2015 05:56 PM
Ned yost isn't even a finalist for manager of the year?? Are you kidding me?

duncan_idaho 11-10-2015 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 11874855)
So it sounds like the Reds are having a fire sale. Joey Votto is owed $200,000,000 over the next 8 years. How much would the Reds have to eat in order to make it worthwhile to take him?

I'd say $40,000,000 or so would make it tempting. 8 years at $20,000,000 AAV?

Biggest issue is his age. Votto is 32 years old. And honestly, if you take him out of the bandbox in Cincinnati, you're probably looking at a 20-HR hitter, tops.

He's also been an injury prone guy, and KC has nowhere to play him unless it moves Hosmer now.

If they're worried about Gordon holding up for 5 years at an AAV approaching $20 million, actually getting a more injury prone guy for more money seems like a non-fit.

Coach 11-10-2015 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCCHIEFS27 (Post 11874951)
Ned yost isn't even a finalist for manager of the year?? Are you kidding me?
Sorry, not on our team. But we beat that guy too as well.

KCFalcon59 11-10-2015 06:23 PM
Esky with the GG! Awesome.

KCFalcon59 11-10-2015 06:25 PM
Hosmer with the GG!

duncan_idaho 11-10-2015 06:25 PM
*** Official 2016 Royals Offseason Repository ***
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 11874919)
I would hate to have the Royals fall off the front page so soon, so I will post a hypothetical again:



Royals Push Payroll to 155M



Existing payroll is 97M

Deal Dyson/Infante (-8, 89)

Offer Holland a three year deal (4/5.5/10[M.O.]) (+4,93)

Offer Gordon an extension (5/85) (+17,110)

Offer Zobrist an extension (4/52) (+13,123)

Offer Heyward a contract (10/200, Player options starting at year 7)(+20,143)

Offer Latos* a contract (1/10M)(+10, 153M total)



Note: Latos takes a one year deal in a pitchers park with the best defense in baseball behind him. He takes this deal because he needs to rebuild his reputation. The Royals straighten his ass out in the clubhouse and Latos moves on to a huge contract next year. Royals tender a QO and get a pick for their troubles.



C: Perez, Butera

1B: Hosmer, Morales

2B: Zobrist, Colon

SS: Escobar

3B: Moustakas, Cuthbert

OF: Gordon, Cain, Heyward, Orlando, Gore



SP: Ventura, Volquez, Medlen, Duffy, Latos

RP: Davis, Herrera, Hochevar, XXX,XXX,XXX





Then it's just a matter of stocking up the pen again.

An interesting proposal. Gordon-Cain-Heyward would certainly contend for best OF defense of all time.

They'd be left filling out the bench with cheap internal options, especially in the bullpen, but they could make that work.

I think Latos is really unlikely, as is Heyward. But this does demonstrate that something like Gordon + Zobrist + Mike Leake/Marco Estrada is not completely crazy monetarily.

Edit: oh, and you would need a team that really loved Dyson and saw him as an everyday guy to get them to take Infante's contract. Not sure that team is out there...

Coach 11-10-2015 06:28 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Eric Hosmer wins his 3rd straight Gold Glove. First AL 1B to win 3 straight since Rafael Palmeiro 1997-1999</p>&mdash; Joel Goldberg (@goldbergkc) <a href="https://twitter.com/goldbergkc/status/664237815354388480">November 11, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash">#Royals</a> shortstop Alcides Escobar wins his first career Gold Glove.</p>&mdash; Joel Goldberg (@goldbergkc) <a href="https://twitter.com/goldbergkc/status/664237145784102912">November 11, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

penbrook 11-10-2015 06:38 PM
Cespedes beat Gordon for the GG but Gordon did miss a lot of time

lewdog 11-10-2015 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by penbrook (Post 11875099)
Cespedes beat Gordon for the GG but Gordon did miss a lot of time
I'm fine with that.

tk13 11-10-2015 06:43 PM
That's still strange because Cespedes was traded to the NL. But Gordon's defensive WAR was way down this year. I know he was hurt, but I think he posted like a 0.4... still not the pace he's used to. I think that's a large reason why the Royals are hesitant to throw a ton of money at him.

petegz28 11-10-2015 06:47 PM
Gratz to Esky!!!

kysirsoze 11-10-2015 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by penbrook (Post 11875099)
Cespedes beat Gordon for the GG but Gordon did miss a lot of time
Cespedes played one more inning as an AL LF than Gordon.

petegz28 11-10-2015 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by penbrook (Post 11875099)
Cespedes beat Gordon for the GG but Gordon did miss a lot of time
Gordon says "let me know when you go platinum, brah!"

CaliforniaChief 11-10-2015 06:56 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yoenis Cespedes wins the LF Gold Glove? Well to be fair, his defense was more valuable to the Royals in the World Series than Alex Gordon&#39;s.</p>&mdash; Rany Jazayerli (@jazayerli) <a href="https://twitter.com/jazayerli/status/664241423601049600">November 11, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

ChiTown 11-10-2015 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaChief (Post 11875144)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yoenis Cespedes wins the LF Gold Glove? Well to be fair, his defense was more valuable to the Royals in the World Series than Alex Gordon&#39;s.</p>&mdash; Rany Jazayerli (@jazayerli) <a href="https://twitter.com/jazayerli/status/664241423601049600">November 11, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
LMFAO!!

penbrook 11-10-2015 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaChief (Post 11875144)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yoenis Cespedes wins the LF Gold Glove? Well to be fair, his defense was more valuable to the Royals in the World Series than Alex Gordon&#39;s.</p>&mdash; Rany Jazayerli (@jazayerli) <a href="https://twitter.com/jazayerli/status/664241423601049600">November 11, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
ROFLROFLROFL

stonedstooge 11-10-2015 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 (Post 11875125)
Gratz to Esky!!!
THAT A WAY ESKY. KNEW YOU WERE SPECIAL THE FIRST TIME I SAW YOU IN ROYAL BLUE

ChiefsCountry 11-10-2015 07:04 PM
What's Mondesi's time table to get to majors? September callup, 2017 ready to go. Or is it longer than that.

lewdog 11-10-2015 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 11875175)
What's Mondesi's time table to get to majors? September callup, 2017 ready to go. Or is it longer than that.
I think he's gonna be special. I'm gonna find him at spring training to autograph a ball. I think he's gonna be amazing defensively.

ChiefsCountry 11-10-2015 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 11875208)
I think he's gonna be special. I'm gonna find him at spring training to autograph a ball. I think he's gonna be amazing defensively.
His development, to me, is the big question to either sign Gordon or Zobrist. If he is going to be ready in 2017, no need to sign Zobrist IMO. While its nice that Zobrist can play everywhere, his best position is 2nd base. We really can't afford to block Mondesi either IMO.

Saul Good 11-10-2015 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 11875240)
His development, to me, is the big question to either sign Gordon or Zobrist. If he is going to be ready in 2017, no need to sign Zobrist IMO. While its nice that Zobrist can play everywhere, his best position is 2nd base. We really can't afford to block Mondesi either IMO.
He just seems SO tiny. It's hard for me to imagine him ever having any pop in his bat.

tk13 11-10-2015 07:50 PM
Andy McCullough said in his chat the other day he thinks Mondesi may be on the major league team by the end of next year. That'd be something. But I think they're definitely counting on him in 2017. I think Cuthbert may be too. I think both of those guys are going to be starting for this team in 2018.

tk13 11-10-2015 07:54 PM
It's exciting Cain is an MVP candidate. I don't even know the last time the Royals had someone in the top 3.

Only catch is that's surely coming up in contract negotiations now. He's not going to be cheap.

alnorth 11-10-2015 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 11875240)
His development, to me, is the big question to either sign Gordon or Zobrist. If he is going to be ready in 2017, no need to sign Zobrist IMO. While its nice that Zobrist can play everywhere, his best position is 2nd base. We really can't afford to block Mondesi either IMO.
I would really like to sign Zobrist regardless of how our prospects are doing. I wouldn't even blink at moving Zobrist off 2B if Mondesi is ready, he can do anything but pitch and catch, and that kind of insurance with his bat is very nice.

lewdog 11-10-2015 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 11875293)
He just seems SO tiny. It's hard for me to imagine him ever having any pop in his bat.
I know, eat a ****ing cheeseburger kid!

duncan_idaho 11-10-2015 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 11875240)
His development, to me, is the big question to either sign Gordon or Zobrist. If he is going to be ready in 2017, no need to sign Zobrist IMO. While its nice that Zobrist can play everywhere, his best position is 2nd base. We really can't afford to block Mondesi either IMO.

2017 is a pretty aggressive time table for him, but he's on track to meet it. Depends on a how well he hits at AA this year. If he performs at a high level, Mondesi could get to Omaha this year and be on track for a 2017 debut.

The beauty of Zobrist is his versatility. If Mondesi is ready in 2017, you can find a spot for Zobrist in LF (if you don't bring back Gordon), RF, or even as a DH/rotating UTIL guy (if Kendrys Morales moves on after this season).

cosmo20002 11-10-2015 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 11875175)
What's Mondesi's time table to get to majors? September callup, 2017 ready to go. Or is it longer than that.
2015 World Series

lewdog 11-10-2015 08:39 PM
Does anyone know if Mondesi speaks English?

KevB 11-10-2015 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tk13 (Post 11875310)
It's exciting Cain is an MVP candidate. I don't even know the last time the Royals had someone in the top 3.

Only catch is that's surely coming up in contract negotiations now. He's not going to be cheap.
Rany said last time we had someone in top 8 was 1990. Last time in top 5 was 1985.

Dartgod 11-10-2015 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 11875438)
Does anyone know if Mondesi speaks English?
Qué?

lewdog 11-10-2015 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dartgod (Post 11875480)
Qué?
Just googled it. He is fluent in English since he was born in the states.

bsroyals54 11-10-2015 09:06 PM
[QUOTE=duncan_idaho;11860682]

Personally, I think Mike Leake would be a great fit with KC's defense and park, and I know Moore has long coveted him. He's still young - just 28 - and has succeeded in bandbox Cincinnati for years.

endquote]






Like another pitcher we acquired? With a clench your butthole start every game?

Lex Luthor 11-10-2015 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealSNR (Post 11874076)
I don't think anybody was expecting Cueto, but Zobrist over Gordon is a bit of a shock to me.
I've always thought Zobrist is more likely to return than Gordon. Similar players, but Zobrist is older and will presumably have less value for other teams.

Prison Bitch 11-10-2015 10:08 PM
Star LF for Cleve Michael Brantley had shoulder surgery. Out 5-6 months which could put him back on June 1 or later if he does a few weeks of AAA rehab. This is huge for us since he's the best player on (what I think is) our clear rival for the Central.

noa 11-10-2015 10:14 PM
Not sure if this was already mentioned, but Cespedes got the gold glove over Gordo. Heh.

KChiefs1 11-10-2015 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaChief (Post 11875144)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yoenis Cespedes wins the LF Gold Glove? Well to be fair, his defense was more valuable to the Royals in the World Series than Alex Gordon&#39;s.</p>— Rany Jazayerli (@jazayerli) <a href="https://twitter.com/jazayerli/status/664241423601049600">November 11, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


BAZINGA!

KChiefs1 11-10-2015 10:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 (Post 11872757)
This team is going to be rebuilding after 2017. We may never see a core group of guys like this again in our lifetimes. Why not sellout to keep Gordon and Zobrist, enter 2016 and likely 2017 as WS favorites, and who cares if that screws us for a few years after 2017?

Opportunities for a 4-year WS run basically never come along for a team like the Royals. We have to go for this.

That's kinda my thoughts too. We are looking at a 2 year window...why not sellout & go for it. Keep Gordon & Zobrist. Sign Heyward. Sign a pitcher like Leake or Zimmerman. Resign CY.

Go for it!

Heyward
Zobrist
Cain
Hosmer
Morales
Gordon
Perez
Moose
Esky

That's a powerful, fast, athletic lineup that has a plus defender at each position.

Zimmerman
Volquez
Ventura
Leake
Medlen

Bullpen is still strong.

Go for it!

Saul Good 11-10-2015 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 11875807)
That's kinda my thoughts too. We are looking at a 2 year window...why not sellout & go for it. Keep Gordon & Zobrist. Sign Heyward. Sign a pitcher like Leake or Zimmerman. Resign CY.

Go for it!

Heyward
Zobrist
Cain
Hosmer
Morales
Gordon
Perez
Moose
Esky

That's a powerful, fast, athletic lineup that has a plus defender at each position.

Zimmerman
Volquez
Ventura
Leake
Medlen

Bullpen is still strong.

Go for it!
CY is very high on my wish list.

New World Order 11-10-2015 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 11875807)
That's kinda my thoughts too. We are looking at a 2 year window...why not sellout & go for it. Keep Gordon & Zobrist. Sign Heyward. Sign a pitcher like Leake or Zimmerman. Resign CY.

Go for it!

Heyward
Zobrist
Cain
Hosmer
Morales
Gordon
Perez
Moose
Esky

That's a powerful, fast, athletic lineup that has a plus defender at each position.

Zimmerman
Volquez
Ventura
Leake
Medlen

Bullpen is still strong.

Go for it!

Oh god that would be fantastic.

tk13 11-10-2015 11:48 PM
Yeah that'd be fun but that'd be $90-100 million in payroll too. We'd probably be 2nd or 3rd in payroll and be paying luxury tax on top of it. If the Royals even get to $140 million, which a lot of people think is possible... that might be a top 10 payroll. That's amazing for a small market with an awful TV contract.

And at this point, we could have Rickey Henderson and I think Esky would still be hitting leadoff. I do think Dayton is thinking about the future more than he gets credit for. With Ventura and Perez locked up, and guys like Mondesi, Cuthbert, Zimmer and Almonte on the way... he has something to build around.

KevB 11-11-2015 12:34 AM
The challenge with selling out to try to win another trophy the next two years is that the next tv contract comes up in 2019. Glass and GMDM will want this team to still be competitive and relevant as we go into those negotiations. So they'll work to field a championship team in '16 and '17, but with an eye toward remaining competitive in '18 and '19.

Pitt Gorilla 11-11-2015 12:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCFalcon59 (Post 11875056)
Hosmer with the GG!
Yeah, but he's a horrible fielder.

alnorth 11-11-2015 12:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevB (Post 11876014)
The challenge with selling out to try to win another trophy the next two years is that the next tv contract comes up in 2019. Glass and GMDM will want this team to still be competitive and relevant as we go into those negotiations. So they'll work to field a championship team in '16 and '17, but with an eye toward remaining competitive in '18 and '19.
Yeah, even if we make the playoffs next year and go on a nice little run, it would be a very bad idea to field a bad team in 2018.

Even if they don't make the playoffs in 2018, if we won 86 games, its 3 years out from a championship, we had another playoff team in 16 or 17, new young team with hope, then the local TV ratings are still going to be huge.

cosmo20002 11-11-2015 01:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 11875807)
That's kinda my thoughts too. We are looking at a 2 year window...why not sellout & go for it. Keep Gordon & Zobrist. Sign Heyward. Sign a pitcher like Leake or Zimmerman. Resign CY.

Go for it!

Heyward
Zobrist
Cain
Hosmer
Morales
Gordon
Perez
Moose
Esky

That's a powerful, fast, athletic lineup that has a plus defender at each position.

Zimmerman
Volquez
Ventura
Leake
Medlen

Bullpen is still strong.

Go for it!
Might as well cancel the regular season and advance directly to playoffs with that team.

baitism 11-11-2015 05:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla (Post 11876021)
Yeah, but he's a horrible fielder.
It's a regular season award. His D was suspect in the postseason.

suzzer99 11-11-2015 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 (Post 11876054)
Might as well cancel the regular season and advance directly to playoffs with that team.
PECOTA might even project us with a winning record.

alnorth 11-11-2015 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baitism (Post 11876091)
It's a regular season award. His D was suspect in the postseason.
Thats true, but when do they vote? The postseason might influence people

ROYC75 11-11-2015 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 (Post 11876231)
PECOTA might even project us with a winning record.
82 - 80:shrug:

Saul Good 11-11-2015 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baitism (Post 11876091)
It's a regular season award. His D was suspect in the postseason.
He made 2 errors, but he still made a lot of really nice plays. He made a beautiful scoop on a throw in the dirt by Zobrist in game 5 against the Mets to complete a double play. He also made an incredible play to scoop a pickoff throw out of the dirt and tag out the runner at first. I believe it was in the 8th or 9th inning with the potential tying run on first.

cosmo20002 11-11-2015 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 11876287)
Thats true, but when do they vote? The postseason might influence people
They definitely vote sometime in Sept. After that, players scatter.

Good luck finding the exact way the winners are determined. They post the criteria for eligibility, but the winner is determined by some formula of player vote, manager and coaching staff vote and the SABR Defensive Index. As far as I can find, they don't say what the weightings are, nor do they publish results other than the finalists and winner.

alnorth 11-11-2015 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 (Post 11876358)
They definitely vote sometime in Sept. After that, players scatter.

Good luck finding the exact way the winners are determined. They post the criteria for eligibility, but the winner is determined by some formula of player vote, manager and coaching staff vote and the SABR Defensive Index. As far as I can find, they don't say what the weightings are, nor do they publish results other than the finalists and winner.
ahh, well then the playoffs don't matter until maybe the following season. (ie, someone who looks terrible in the playoffs might have doubters in 2016)

Pitt Gorilla 11-11-2015 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baitism (Post 11876091)
It's a regular season award. His D was suspect in the postseason.
sarcasm.

Halfcan 11-11-2015 02:50 PM
What a great year for Perez-World Series MVP and 3rd straight Gold Glove.

If he keeps playing like this- he will be in the HOF some day.

CaliforniaChief 11-11-2015 02:52 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Interest in O’Day so extensive, even teams with deep bullpens have expressed interest, sources say. Among them: The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash">#Royals</a>.</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/664543932211191808">November 11, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

siberian khatru 11-11-2015 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaChief (Post 11876854)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Interest in O’Day so extensive, even teams with deep bullpens have expressed interest, sources say. Among them: The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash">#Royals</a>.</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/664543932211191808">November 11, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I like other teams' fans' reaction to that possibility:

Crap!

Just what they need.

Jesus Christ

Fansy the Famous Bard 11-11-2015 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaChief (Post 11876854)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Interest in O’Day so extensive, even teams with deep bullpens have expressed interest, sources say. Among them: The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash">#Royals</a>.</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/664543932211191808">November 11, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I'd def be on board with that. He's a player.

Coach 11-11-2015 03:34 PM
Just spitballin'....

Is there going to be a possibility in the future that instead of a 5 man rotation with a 6-7 bullpen guys, that some teams are going to go like 3 2nd tier starters with 8-9 bullpen guys, to somewhat offset the high cost of starting pitchers in the market?

Plus, outside of some high end starters, it's pretty well documented that the 3rd time around the batting order on the same starting pitcher is when his #'s tend to go up.

Thoughts?

BigCatDaddy 11-11-2015 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaChief (Post 11876854)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Interest in O’Day so extensive, even teams with deep bullpens have expressed interest, sources say. Among them: The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash">#Royals</a>.</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/664543932211191808">November 11, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Any idea if what he might be getting? 3 for 25?

CaliforniaChief 11-11-2015 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 11876926)
Any idea if what he might be getting? 3 for 25?
That sounds about right. Probably think Zack Duke from last year, maybe?

I'm sure O'Day's agent was thrilled to see that get out. Probably planted it. I would not expect GMDM to drop an AAV $8 million/year on another bullpen arm. But right now he could sign Jim Abbott to pitch right-handed and I'd probably give him the benefit of the doubt.


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