Some of the draft pundits on twitter are all up in arms over it. Hell, even the over the cap guy is all doom and gloom in 2018 for the chiefs due to high contracts and such.

I don't see any way, barring something crazy like a super bowl win, that Alex and tamba are here next year.

That's a glib response.

The Browns have very good OL coaching. They've failed in many ways but drafting/developing OL talent is not one of them.

This isn't the 'catch all' response it oft is when dealing with former Browns. If the Browns weren't able to make him merely serviceable as opposed to abjectly terrible, there's a very good chance that he just flat sucks.

We shall see.

Another example of a Brown RB failing to hit the hole and run downhill.

I think the Erving reverse-pancake was setting up the defender for a play later in the game. That play would have really gotten blown up if not for the Browns center's chip block.

Seems like the new Browns FO is trying to make the point that the previous regime drated a lot of Dawg-shit.

The writing was on the wall the moment the LDT contract was signed. It was obvious they were preparing for a world without Smith and Hali. I think the Ragland deal suggests that DJ is unlikely to return as well.

There's $42 million that can come off that cap in Smith, Hali, DJ and Reid. If Bailey has a strong, healthy year you'll extend him and reduce that $8 million figure for next season and if he doesn't have a strong, healthy year you'll move on from him.

This team's gonna be fine on the cap next season.

Cleveland's done well in drafting offensive lineman, from Alex Mack to Joe Thomas to Mitch Schwartz and Joel Bitonio.

It's possible that Erving sucks but it's just as possible that he wasn't suited for Hue's offense.

Time will tell.

It looks like both of these trades help the team for now and 2018 specifically.

Zach Fulton is in a contract year. He's likely gone next year, hopefully to a smart team that wants to pay him a decent contract to play C. In reality, Dorsey would have likely drafted that replacement in next years draft with a 4th or 5th anyway.

DJ could be done at any moment and we have plenty of good options to explore, including a would-be first rd pick.

This is going to save us money as well as great depth from small risk moves.

If they do that specific permutation of events they're fine on the cap.

Browns trade Cameron Erving to Chiefs

The Browns weren’t able to trade cornerback Joe Haden, but they have been able to move another player that was on their trading block.

The Browns have traded offensive lineman Cameron Erving to the Chiefs in a deal announced by both teams on Wednesday afternoon. Kansas City will send a 2018 fifth-round pick to Cleveland.

The Browns now have 13 picks in the 2018 draft, including five in the first two rounds and multiple picks in every round other than the third and seventh.

Erving was a 2015 first-round pick by the Browns and spent most of last season as their starting center. He also saw time at guard and was getting time at tackle this summer, but was ticketed for a backup role before reports of their interest in trading him emerged this week.

Erving will likely be in a reserve role for the Chiefs as well and his experience at multiple positions could wind up changing their plans about which other offensive linemen were headed for the 53-man roster. Erving is signed through the 2018 season with salaries of just under $1.3 million and just over $1.7 million.

Erving is the second trade acquisition of the week for the Chiefs. They acquired linebacker Reggie Ragland for a 2019 fourth-round pick in an earlier deal.



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ing-to-chiefs/

Well, there's absolutely no way that Hali and Reid are with the Chiefs in 2018 and Reid's unlikely to make the 53 this year.

I could see Parker being gone as well.

I forgot we got into a disagreement about Cooper before LMAO

And yes, he's a Cowboy

Would they have taken the time to ask Mitch Schwartz what his opinion of Erving is, prior to making the trade?

I can only see Parker cut if Murray and/or McQuay are ready to replace him and I don't think McQuay even makes the 53 this year.

That was my initial thought as well.

Why wouldn't they?

Is he starting at LG?

Eh.

Feels like when the Royals signed Travis Wood.

Maybe he'll be better than what we already have?

He's battling Chaz Green for the job. Green is currently the starter according to their depth chart.

All this fuss over a back up OL? They will coach him up and he'll be alright. He can't do any
Worse than what we've seen Mahomes deal with.

Sure.

And if they have to, that's exactly what they'll do and it wouldn't really hurt them too badly. Worst case scenario is that DJ/Hali cut their figures in half via additional restructuring.

Smith's gone. They're not carrying him at $20 million if Mahomes shows anything at all in terms of development this year.

The point being that they have options and those options aren't catastrophic. Moreover, an extra 5th round pick would've done precisely dick to truly change those options/outcomes.

I thought about putting him in that group but I'm not impressed by Murray just yet. I'd have to see more first.

And he's at an age where he's not going to want to see the market. If they approach him with a salary cut, I'd imagine they can get one done. If they need to free that up, they'll reduce his '18 and '19 salaries by turning '18 into a bonus and reducing the salaries for both years. They may end up keeping him in '19 if he's still effective but it's always critical to remind yourself that Ron Parker is much much older than we realize.

I think Parker and Bailey are the guys we should keep around for a couple more years.

I'm already considering Hali/DJ/Alex gone next year.

Jesus, what a dumpster fire.

https://media.profootballfocus.com/2...Cam-Erving.png

https://www.profootballfocus.com/new...browns-in-2017

Veach better know something Everybody else doesn't know!

I'll say this regarding Erving.

I give the Browns staff credit for coaching OL, but it's almost impossible to be as bad as Erving has been while being relatively physically gifted. Watching his feet makes simply no sense to me at all. I didn't even like him coming into the draft (the Barnes thread was the most involved conversation I had) but I never saw a guy who simply couldn't set his base.

He's regressed considerably. He isn't THIS bad. There has to be a mental roadblock that he's just not clearing. Something is ****ed up between his ears because there's no reason he should be arguably the worst damn interior lineman in football.

So if the physical tools are there, there's at least a non-zero chance that Heck can unlock them.

I'd still cut Jah Reid's ass. Keep Fisher, Schwartz, Morse, Ehinger, LDT, Witzmann, Fulton and Erving. Squirrel Mama away on the PS with Devey. If you lose another T, you move Witzmann out wide and bring Mama up as his replacement on the interior.

Does the center stand on his foot and that causes him to go down in that play

What's colquitts number next year? Surely he's gone as well, right?

FA.

And he'd damn well better be. It's time for Andy to nut up and tell his all-world special teams coordinator that he'd better earn his money with our cheap-ass punter.

Doesn't look like it. Look at his upper half on that play - he's trying to anchor and drive there right as the DL makes contact. Even if he wanted to move his foot back, I don't think he could've.

He just ended up so upright in his stance that the DL got under his pads and absolutely ****ed him up. As soon as he makes contact with the DL, his forward momentum just stopped. But you get no indication from anything else on his body that he was prepared to be driven backwards - he was selling out for drive and did such a bad job staying low that he got detonated.

Hard to find an excuse for that play - everything about it was bad.

We need to plug Erving in right away and let Alex Smith get hurt. Would be worth every penny if that happened.

The 5th round pick is a conditional pick

So this week, Veech has signed a LB with knee issues and the worst O linemen in football.

Man I miss Dorsey.

Well that's certainly one way to look at it.

I seen he was really upright and knew he was ****ed but thought the center caught his foot and wasn't able to step back to try and recover.

Yeah it was really shitty

You're right to judge so quickly. Veech=failure

Boo!

Like I said, it just looks like he's so committed to that initial drive block that 'step back and try to recover' wasn't even a thought on his mind at the time.

I could be wrong, but to my eyes that just looks like a guy getting fed his lunch because he ****ed up real bad, real fast.

JFC

LMAO

Veech was just tooting his own horn a while back talking about not needing the waiver wire because there is So much talent on this team-then trades for two scrubs. :rolleyes:

He could have signed equal and cheaper talent after cut down day and saved us the draft picks.

:hmmm:

C'mon no one actually believed that.

Man, with that amount of vitriol you woulda thought it was Veach that used a first on him to begin with.

I don't think you can find his raw physical talent on the FA wire. Not at that age anyway.

He used a 5th to try to get some upside baked into a backup. There are a hell of a lot worse uses of a 5th round pick than that. If he goes into the market after cuts, you know who he's gonna find? Jah Reid and his ilk. He's gonna find aging guys that are past their primes and can't necessarily be coached up as much as they can be managed/limped along through their twilights. And sure, the floor on those guys is probably higher than on Erving.

But for a backup OL, I see a fair amount of utility in gambling on upside.

Take it easy on my buddy halfcan. He's ingested too much MSG.

He means well.

The 5th round pick might not even happen as it is a conditional pick

Calling Reggie Ragland a "scrub" is unbelievably stupid.

The guy was Top 4 in terms of talent in the 2016 draft, right along side Jaylon Smith, Myles Jack and Darron Lee.

Unfortunately, Smith was injured in his bowl game and Ragland tore his ACL on August 5th, 2016.

Ragland has enormous upside.

You're crazy if you think Mahomes is ready

Now now, let's not go crazy.

Ragland was alongside Lee (depending on scheme fit) but he was not alongside Smith or Jack. Those two guys were considered potential top 10, even top 5 picks before their injuries.

I liked Ragland at the back of the 1st, but he was definitely not considered to be on the same tier as those two guys. Smith and Jack were absolute horses as prospects before injuries knocked them both down.

Agree. Absolutely doesn't matter. We're going to get comp picks to make up four these future low round picks. These guys are basically free.

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For whom?

Not sure where the comp picks are gonna come from. I don't see many pending FAs that are going to draw significant FA interest on this squad. We have our core locked up for a couple of years and the aging guys aren't gonna get comp kinda contracts.

Plus the whole Saban wearing guys down in college is true. Ragland may never live up to his potential but it's still better than Justin March and DJ Alexander

But he was definitely a Top 4 in the 2016 draft and before finding the enlarged aorta, which will in no way affect his football career, considered a late first rounder.

He wasn't a "scrub". He's not Reuben Foster but he's hardly a "scrub".

I hope for their sakes that Smith and Jack can reach their potential.

Again, McClain, Hightower and Mosely have all done pretty well (although as mentioned earlier, McClain is mental).

If the Chiefs can get Hightower or Mosely out of a 2019 4th round pick for in 2018 & 2019, I'll be thrilled.

This better have been a conditional 5th...he's been terrible so far. Cleveland has had decent results from their o-line...so it's hard to blame the coaching.

I guess it also speaks to how bad KC's back-up OL has been in preseason/camp.

Tyreek Hill was a 5th rounder....

Ragland I understand...he was hurt, never played, then had a scheme change. Erving has been a big-time bust

People worrying too much about Bama prospects is what caused Landon Collins to slip past some teams.

I don't think Bama prospects have been quite as bad as some think. It's mainly the corners that worry me.

This. I think Parker is one of the most underrated safeties in the league. Who the **** worries about what Parker is doing? Not me. He's rarely a problem.

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Yep. Lots to work with. I like this move. Goodbye, Jah Reid. :)

The fact that he was not even good enough as a backup for the Browns says it all. Do you not think they "coached him up" and tried everything they could to get a return on their 1st round investment?

If we can cut Jah Reid now- I guess it was worth it, but it looks like we gave up a 5th for Jah's twin though. This guy is soft as a pillow.

It is in fact a conditional 5th

Parker is a top 5 FS. Coming to the Chiefs his problem is he couldn't tackle. I'm glad those issues have been fixed. Gaines on the other hand his problems are unfixable

Every time you all mention Jah Reid



https://lovelace-media.imgix.net/upl...ax&auto=format

Damn, Veach is picking up right where Dorsey left off

Say what you will about Erving in Cleveland, but this isnt Cleveland... this is a typical Dorsey signing, a high upside guy with elite measurables

Even if he doesnt pan out, it shows that Veach is using much the same methodology as Dorsey

I love it

No they won't

I guess we'll see

Uhhhhh no.

Landon Collins slipped because someone put out a video of him gas masking it

lol That wasn't Landon Collins. That was Tunsil.

And Mississippi

Only thing elite is that he sucked at three different positions- the scrub trifecta.

When a 1-15 team is tired of you- there is nowhere to go but up.

Dorsey would have saved the draft pick.

:facepalm:

Dude its Cleveland, even with their solid record along the O line, it doesnt mean that the culture as a whole is any good

Thats no promise the guy will turn into anything, but Cleveland is what it is... and we all see down and out players change teams and turn their fortunes around

Also, dont discount the fact that they never really let him settle in anywhere... they may well have thrown too much at him too soon, and ****ed him all up

My biggest takeaway here, is that Veach seems to be using the same 'decision lens' as Dorsey... and we've seen that style pay off time and time again, too many times for me to question it

Its a 5th, we'll be fine bro

Dane literally made me spit my drink out.

Who knew Dane had a sense of humor?

I read about half this thread and am dying of laughter...

I loved the Ragland trade. I see updside and thought it was worth it given he spent his rookie year on IR...

This trade though? There are people that think this is a value trade? JFC.

Cam Erving is one of the worst lineman I've ever seen grace an NFL field.

MAYBE, if the Chiefs training staff makes this kid do 5,000 squats and 5,000 power cleans a day, this kid will get some anchor strength by next season. Until that happens, this kid is nothing but a ****ing rag doll. Terrible player. Athleticism only goes so far and it doesn't get him all that far.

He wasn't worth giving a pick up for. Not even a 7th.

I know it may be early to say but it appears it is the system more so than the man. For a while when dorsey was fired I feared it may be a Bill Polian type thing where it seemed like more the person than the system.
We learned painfully what happens when its the system with pioli.
This time we are on the good side of that result. Although unlike pioli I still believe dorsey can build a good team if given another chance. I feel great about Veach. Fun time to be a Chief's fan.

Its still early, but Veach so far is coming off like a younger John Dorsey

He is maybe being even more aggressive, but still using the same basic template... and I'm not gonna argue with that

https://streamable.com/jf8fz

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Let's see here. What has this Browns new management done?

-thought Carson Wentz was a shit QB and wouldn't draft him.
-let Alex Mack go
-let Mitchell Schwartz go
-let Terrell Pryor go

They don't exactly have smart people there...

Some might not like the trade but when you think of it, I really don't think that a 5th round pick is any more likely to become a good starter than Erving has of turning it around and becoming a good starter.

I consider that it is more likely that Erving will stay the course and continue being a bust but for a 5th round pick Ill take the risk knowing he was once widely viewed as a very good oline prospect. Plus Veach is supposed to be a good scout so lets see.

Erving has had some epically bad plays. Strung together it makes you wonder how anyone would have thought he could ever step on the field, much less be a first round pick.

Having said that, they must think they can do something with him. If they can, my god hats off to the coaching staff. Still don't give a **** about a fifth, but I think expecting virtually anything from this is wishful thinking.

I think you need to give them more time. I dont feel like they have done wrong so far. It's all up in the air. The key for them is to draft well. They could use John Dorsey.

not sure if these were posted in here yet, but LMAO

https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Kj2...705/jmtd.0.gif

https://i.redd.it/5b7s4pvao3fz.gif

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