More interesting debate would be Allen vs Watson.

Watson..and it's not close.

Hmm, I would have to think on that one.

Lol wut?

Watson. Hes more consistent. More accurate.

Watson has another year on Allen but I think Allen is getting better while I think we know who Watson is.

Holy shit, I thought this was a joke. It's not.

ESPN has Mahomes QBR at 81.4. Allen at 85.7. That has to be the stupiest shit ever.

Allen threw a pick, had a MUCH lower completion percentage (which I thought all of these QB metrics jacked off to) and fewer yards.

Is this some peetarded look at "balls that should have been intercepted but weren't" stat? Even then, Allen probably had more throws that WERE picked off than throws that Mahomes supposedly should have had picked off.

Rushing yards? Is that ****ing it? We're grading QBs by their rushing yards now? If that's the case, then CEH was the best ****ing QB of the night by far!

Idiocy. Pure unadulterated idiocy.

I'm guessing it's rushing yards, especially because he picked up quite a few first downs with his feet.

I haven't watched ESPN in years since I got rid of cable but I didn't realize they had gotten this shitty. What kind of "sports" network rates Allen better than Mahomes last night? I'm completely baffled by this.

I would say the Hi's are potentially higher with Allen, but his lows are lower than Watsons. Allen is wildly inconsistent.

I can see why people would be excited about Allen though. He can definitely makes some plays at times.

Allen looks good at times, but he'll come back to Earth and end up being just another so-so QB that can get you to the playoffs, but never over the hump.

Imagine trading down to avoid Mahomes so you could trade up for Allen.

6 rushing yards makes that big of a difference?

Maybe it’s some stupid Cap nerd analyzing whose production was more efficient for their respective cap hit?????

****ing nerds ruin everything.

Allen needs the Cam Newton offense.

It's the rushing yards. It's actually still not that bad. ESPN's QBR is about the best measure available, despite its warts.

Picking up first downs absolutely do.

I guess I just don't see it. He may have had 6 more rushing yards and picked up some first downs but I can't wrap my head around him having a "better" game than Mahomes.

I looked up an article explaining the formula for QBR and it seems to be all over the place trying to explain it. "ESPN’s Total Quarterback Rating (Total QBR), which was released in 2011, has never claimed to be perfect, but unlike other measures of quarterback performance, it incorporates all of a quarterback’s contributions to winning, including how he impacts the game on passes, rushes, turnovers and penalties."

Oh well. Still got a win so it's probably not worth losing sleep over.

Allen is the same thing as Ryan Tannehill: a bigger-bodied, stronger-armed Matt Cassel. I almost said 'a stronger-armed Alex Smith' but I don't believe either one of them have Alex's football IQ.

It's not. Trust me.

Especially since according to ESPN's QBR, Patrick is the 2nd-best QB in the league right now. ;)

The simple fact is that there's no objective way to measure total performance. ESPN's QBR is more comprehensive than the traditional QB Rating but it's not necessarily more accurate.

Both are likely better than PFF, which is literally a bunch of fans sitting in their basements making subjective guesses about performance.

Inaccurate QB remains inaccurate. News at 10.

Seriously guys, I think we're at the point we can put this to rest. Guys just aren't going to get THAT much more accurate. If a guys struggles with accuracy in college, surprise surprise, he's gonna struggle with it in the NFL.

I agree with that. The one thing I think they do get right is weighting yardage different. Gaining 5 on 3 and 5 should be more important than gaining 5 on 3 and 10. I guess it's better to stick with the eye test and take the experts numbers with a grain of salt.

Both are VASTLY better than Matt Cassel.

I dunno if you're under rating them or over rating cassel.. but no. Just... no.

Uh, no. I would MUCH rather have Tannehill or Allen than Cassel. :rolleyes:

Yes, or even what the Ravens are running with Jackson.

Unlike Jackson, Allen has the arm strength to make teams respect his throwing outside the numbers.

I don't think he was that inaccurate actually.

There's only two throws i can recall that were blatantly inaccurate. And on one of them he was running for his life.

The Chiefs defense just isn't getting their credit due, even from Chiefs fans.

Lamar Jackson: 15/28 97 yards

Josh Allen: 14/27 122 yards. (half of that came on ONE drive)

The Chiefs D shit on the two premiere QB's in the AFC. When they're focused in, they beast.

When they get complacent or don't play with that chip on their shoulder they get games like the Raiders game.

Ridiculous.

He missed alot of pretty routine throws. Part of being an NFL QB is making throws accurately under pressure. He can't consistently do that.

Cassel and Tannehill don’t belong in the same sentence

You'll have to show me because that's not how I remember it at all.

He had two glaring misses: The first down pass to his RB and the overthrow on the post in the end zone.

There was an easy third down throw over the middle to Beasley he missed that would have kept a drive alive. Another one to Diggs that was way off.

I'll go back and watch later.

They highlighted all of them during the half time show. It was the focal point of their discussion.

ESPN QBR usually matches pretty good with the eye test. This time they messed it up. I think the grade for Mahomes is very fair. He was pretty good but not perfect. The Allen grade is about 20-30 points higher than it should be. He was a contributing factor in their loss and he admitted this in the press conference.

He had 3 or 4 more passes that were a good 2 feet too high. He had a half dozen truly errant throws.

Yep.

I was chatting with a friend & it dawned on both of us that the AFC is taking over for future QB's in the NFL.

Mahomes
Watson
Allen
Jackson
Burrow
Herbert
Tua

The Jets will probably end up with the 1st pick which they will use to get Trevor Lawrence.

You don't feel the bad weather conditions had anything to do with it?

Of course it did. But to say he only had 2 bad throws isn't accurate.

True. Allen threw several passes that were just puzzling. Not just the accuracy, but the trajectories and velocities were often . . . not receiver-friendly. He seems to have a hard time with touch. A lot of his passes are missiles that just make catching it a lot harder. Then add in the inaccuracy issues, bad timing or whatever . . .

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Josh Allen having a better QBR than Patrick Mahomes last night is not a great evening for QBR (which I generally like)</p>&mdash; Matt Verderame (@MattVerderame) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattVerderame/status/1318594955233943555?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 20, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Yeah, he's got a cannon but he's like a fastball pitcher, he doesn't have a great change-up.

I agree.

In general, I find ESPN QBR to be about the best rating system out there for QB's. Last night wasn't a great one though.

More like Josh Lollen

What's funny about this is that the next time the Chiefs and Bills meet up, sure as shit their fans will be on here trying to troll CP with this stupid thing. "According to ESPN's QBR ratings, Josh was the better QB last time they met!" I guarantee it.

As I recall, plays in key situations weigh heavily in qbr, and Mahomes just didn't have any to make. The running game was working so well that all he had to do was play the best Alex Smith game that anyone ever saw.

All that bullshit we hear about how he's a gunslinger and makes dangerous throws, and that was one of the safest, most efficient games you'll ever see. On the road. In the rain.

Yep.

Where is Bills Fan???

That dumb bitch tried to explain last year about how the Bills actually won the Mahomes trade.

Come out, Bills Fan!!!

I'm now sure how saying they're bigger-bodied, stronger-armed versions of Matt Cassel can possibly be construed as saying they're the same as Matt Cassel. Maybe if you ignore the bigger-bodied and stronger-armed part of it.

The main point was that they're on the Matt Cassel level of operating an offense. Which is to say their success is I believe heavily dependent on finding the right system and group of players to elevate them. I don't think either is capable of themselves consistently elevating a team to the point of winning a game against a quality.opponent, or of pulling games out of the fire when shit's falling apart around them.

Which is why it's so great for us that we DO have a guy who can do that.

Just a few weeks ago they were saying they wouldn't trade Allen for Mahomes. LMAO

He’s getting hot....

2nd best AFC QB?

Need him to beat the Steelers next week.

I would say so at the moment. Hopefully he takes down the Steelers next week.

I think you have to look at what Baker is doing in Cleveland. The Browns are 9-3 and are playing some great football.

Which leads me to my larger point:

We are starting to see some people saying Baker Mayfield is/will be better than Patrick Mahomes. I think it’s ridiculous, but there are people that feel that way. I was wondering if anyone here would choose Baker over Mahomes. So the choice is simple: who would you rather have as QB for the next 12 years? Mayfield Or Mahomes?

The guy had one of the worst chokes in the playoffs I've ever seen from any QB last year against Houston. All but shit his pants he was so nervous. He also completely folded against the Chiefs in the biggest game of their year this season.

He's improved this year to the point that he's a 5-10 QB in the game, but let's see him get past the big game hurdle first before anything else.

And which people are saying that? People who don't watch football?

You need to stay away from these special needs people. :doh!:

After watching both of them play at Texas Tech, I will unequivocally state that Baker Mayfield will never be the QB that Mahomes is or will continue to be. Even today, watch what happens when Mayfield gets pressured. He panics and will throw the ball up for grabs. Give him a clean pocket and he does a great job. Mahomes is just calm cool and collected. Look at their career turnovers and it'll tell you who you want being the captain of your team.

LMAO Nice copypasta.

Have to be homers, I mean look how many mediocre QB's we all tried to prop up, just hoping they would finally be an answer for us.

There's assholes in every fan base, and sorry to say... even yours.

I just don't get the level of hate coming from CP. I know I was gone from the boards for several years dealing with real life shit - but geesh.

Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes?
 

The talking heads have now added Josh Allen to the MVP list.

No one is saying this.

It wasn't that bad. He tried to play some hero ball but it wasn't that big a deal for a rookie QB.

People get DeBerg'd even when it's not DeBerg.

Thank you Josh for beating the Steelers

It’s going to be a fun rematch in the AFC Championship game.

Disgrace to all red

I was talking to a Bills fan at work today and he lost his shit when I mentioned Josh Allen's accuracy issues. He says stats prove he's top 5 in accuracy, I haven't bothered to look it up. Surely I'm not the only person that thinks its a weakness of his?

You have to admit this is a big improvement:

He’s playing extremely well. Is it time to be concerned?

You should start a thread.

I'm concerned you've run out of schtick

Why should Chiefs fan be concerned about another promising young QB having a good game/season/career?

Nah, think of it as a foil to reality.

Especially considering that said QB already lost to the Chiefs while putting up like a buck twenty-five or something like that.....

Props to the Bills staff. Allen has ascended into top 5 QB territory.

But he’s not anywhere near the top 3 by any means aka Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson.

He’s close. Let’s see if he can win some playoff games this year.

I hate those chain gang ref ads. No one likes officials. I am I the only one who is rooting for the guy to get eaten by a monster in the basement?

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I have no idea why it's in this thread, but I concur. Whether it's a monster or a car wreck or an ad rewrite, I want them gone.

Thought I was in the Saturday game day thread. Long day.

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