CEH is running for 4.7 YPC this year. So no, I don't see how "this" works. That's 12th among RBs. Can he do better? Absolutely. Is he 3rd string? Not even close.

I'll keep playing.

Starting running backs don't put the ball on the ground in crucial situations.

Starting running backs are not a huge liability in pass protection.

I could pull up a long list of backs that run for 4.7/carry and don't start.

You better be prepared to bench the entire Chiefs offense if you want to go down that rabbit hole.

Gore is a bum like CEH. People are delusional.

No joke. CEH has two career fumbles. If we're judging people based on this year's performance alone, they should all be cut.

CEH back at practice today

2021 YPC
Darrell Williams 3.6
Derrick Gore 4.4
CEH 4.7

Your eyes are deceiving you. There is a reason CEH is our feature back.

I think the non-idiots understand this pretty clearly. If CEH is healthy, he's clearly the best choice.

Chief Fan simply decided he didn't like CEH and that was that. We have too much pride around here to go around changing our minds due to little things like data/reality.

I don't think the question is whether or not he's be the best choice (I've said that for some time; Gore doesn't impress me).

The question is whether he's a good enough choice to justify a strong shift in philosophy.

Lets go CEH

team is done with turnovers, time to turn up and run the table

lets eat

Clearly not. He's not Derrick Henry and he's not going to be. Take the runs that are there, catch some passes, and figure out leverage for pass-pro. That's his recipe for success, IMO.

Honestly, I just hope he's healthy/ready. If not, he should wait until he is.

I just want CEH to emerge as a pass catcher and be serviceable as a blocker out of the backfield. This would add more of a dimension to this offense than anything else.

If he can't or is simply unable to be the guy on 3rd and longs, I don't think he can fulfill the needed responsibilities of a RB in this offense.

Our offensive line is opining holes that would rival Octomoms vagina.

CEH is gonna feast.

Kelce is getting so much heat over the middle that I really can't understand why we aren't releasing backs into the pattern over the middle. Simple dagger/arrow routes and stuff like that.

It could help take the spy off Mahomes. It could help Kelce take a little less of a beating. If Kelce isn't getting beat up as badly you won't have to put him in the slot as often to get him a clean release. If you don't need to put him in the slot, you can put him in-line and give the RT more help (critical if it's going to be Wylie again but beneficial regardless of who's there).

And if that's NOT how opposing defenses deal with it, then they'll deal with it by pulling a safety down into the box to pick the RB up out of the backfield. And now you're out of your 2-high looks.

I feel like maybe I don't understand football anymore because some of this stuff seems so damn self-evident and we just. aren't. doing it. I'm really puzzled.

Yep.

CEH's YPC was dipping when he got hurt.

I expect he'll end up around 4.

4.6 to 4.9

It should be remarkably easy to run in this Chiefs offense. It's possible that all of our RB's are so bad that it's just difficult to see it since you automatically get a huge boost by not having to run with so many people in the box - like you would have to do if you were on other teams.

Damien Williams was a 3.6 to 3.7 ypc back and comes here and immediately was a 4.5 to 5.1 YPC back.

CEH is going to feast when he returns.

Should be, but none of our RBs have speed.

Clyde averaged 4.4 last year when he was far healthier.

He had two absolutely huge YPC games this year when he was running through astronomical holes against really bad run defenses (LAC and PHI).

That has skewed his average thus far.

His other three games he was averaging 3 YPC.

He likely ends up around 4 YPC as he recovers from his injuries, and with teams far better situated to stop our rushing attack at this point.

The Chiefs cannot count on Clyde next season. I doubt he even breaks the end zone again this year.

Yeah, I don't disagree at all. He needs to be in patterns. Clearly, Darrel isn't the answer out of the backfield.

Still can't believe we drafted CEH over Jonathan Taylor...:banghead:

Agreed completely. What’s more bewildering is on draft day CEH was advertised as a the perfect antidote to the 2 high look. He was an advanced route runner with good hands who could be relied on to get chunk gains between 5-15 yards when Patrick’s other options were taken away. But that just… hasn’t happened? Instead in year one the focus became entirely on him as a runner (which, he did good, but his main draw had been his receiving abilities) and there was little effort to even get him involved in the screen game. It just doesn’t make sense - especially when we’ve seen what a RB catching out of the backfield can do in this offense with Hunt and playoff Williams.

maybe a coincidence - but with a full-game of CEH, the offense was averaging 33.5 per game.

Without a full-game of CEH, the offense has averaged 17.4.

Fumble

I agree. I was predicting huge numbers for Clyde based on what he did in college and how he should be the perfect fit in KC for this offense. I have no earthly idea why it went the way it did.

It's not a coincidence.

The CEH hate around here was always a bunch of bullshit. Like i said, once a narrative gets started on this forum there's no slowing it down. Especially when the stupids get ahold of it.

He had a bad week 1. No doubt.

Followed by a decent week 2 that was marred by a game losing turnover.

From that point forward he was pretty dang good.

It took a few weeks of D. Williams (who's a decent backup) for people to realize how good CEH actually is.

Sadly, i don't think the "CEH SUCKS" narrative will ever drop.

I'll never understand how people can arbitrarily throw out games in one situation and then compare it to another where they don't and then expect it to mean something.

He was likely a 1200 yard back if he doesn't get injured last season.

IIRC, he was a top 5 rusher in the league prior to getting hurt. There weren't any big splash plays and that's obviously the barometer for how much a player sucks around here.

yeah, I mean if you only count the games Derrick Henry played against KC in the last two years, he's a pretty average running back.

There is a huge disparity in his YPC. Same was true last year, too.

He's just not a consistent player and it's because he lacks any special ability.

He's dependent on the OL.

That's what it means.

He won't end up anywhere near 4.9 YPC.

Nothing wrong with 4 YPC but that's what he is. RB2

I agree.

He’s a solid back that can do about everything well. I think people just want to see a “running backs in the first round” have elite traits. Clyde doesn’t have a single elite trait…his unique skill is being able to do everything well. He doesn’t give you those “holy shit did you see that” type plays you get from a Jamaal Charles, but he also doesn’t typically go down on first contact much. He also makes tiny gains out of plays that would usually go for a big loss fairly routinely, as well.

I’d definitely like to see a lot more from Gore though.

I disagree, to some extent. His lateral quickness was elite, and likely still is, if healthy. Pre-draft, his vision was elite. With the line coming together, this should improve as well.

Detractors of Damien Williams did with him, too.

"His 4.5 YPC shouldn't count because it was buffered by multiple 80+ yard runs yada yada"

I have no real qualms with CEH as a runner. It's more with how he's been used in the offense and Andy's situational playcalling with him -- and I will have issues if he doesn't emerge as a pass catcher this season. This offense can't have a RB who is unable to provide that impact for Patrick Mahomes.

I wouldn't "throw out" those games but they are not a true indicator of his ability. Those holes vs Philly were massive.

All that can really be said to his defenders right now is, show me

Whole lotta talk about how he's been unfairly badmouthed, well he'll be back in the rotation soon, so... show me

Actually do WANT to be wrong about him, we'll see...

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You disagree? Why such a wild disparity in his YPC, then? The same was true last season.

It is a fantasy to say he can be a 5 YPC guy.

What would you like to see?

He's averaging 4.7 YPC and has two 100+ yard games out of 5.

Considering he's gotten 15+ Carries (17) ONCE this season, im not sure what you expect with such limited opportunities. Even in his limited roll, he was producing.

Through 18 career games he has a 4.5 YPC.

The only fantasy is thinking you have solid football takes.

I'm thinking that CEH is a little undervalued.

Is it pure coincidence that this offense transformed from arguably the best in the league into a very mediocre offense immediately after he went down?

Because he's a ****ing RB, do you even football? Holy mother of christ.

Here's Henry's YPC's this season:

3.4
5.2
4.04
4.76
4.48
7.15
2.97
2.43

It's all over the goddamn place, lol. That's pretty damn normal. From 2.43 to 7.15.

Jonathon Taylor, everyone's girl who got away:

High: 10.36

Low: 3.29

Nick Chubb:

High: 9.79

Low: 3.81

How about...

1) Better consistency
2) Prove to be effective in the pass game
3) Display the vision needed to exploit the cavernous holes this line opens

Speaking of limited opportunities, its a fair question to ask WHY his opps are so limited... is Reid carelessly ignoring Clydes pass game prowess? Maybe, but its also perfectly reasonable to assume he isn't displaying the necessary traits in practice

His sources brah

Do more, Detoxing, do more!

Ok, sure.

Joe Mixon:

High: 5.22

Low: 2.36

Kind of my point.

Clyde will never have a 10 YPC game.

His last game was 1.86 YPC though. Gross.

That's your top 4 RB's in the league right now, GoChiefs.

I hope you've learned something.

Or do you wanna argue that the top 4 RB's in the league suck because they have certain games that they go off, and certain games that they don't?

Reid has never used RB's at a high volume. Even when he had JC.

The fact is that CEH is getting MAYBE 15 touches a game and then everyone is asking why he doesn't produce like Henry, Mixon, Chubb and all these other high volume backs.

Even though his YPC is right in line with all of these top backs.

The reason for that is simple. Bad arguments, fake narratives due to frustration and overall poor analysis. GoChiefs level analysis.

No, it isn't your point. Your point is that his YPC through 18 games shouldn't count because there's a few games he goes off and few games he doesn't.

That's your argument. And that's a stupid one. Because as i've pointed it, such is the nature of that position in the NFL.

It's kinda like the Chris Jones dumbass arguments.

"Well he doesn't get sacks every week therefore he sucks. We should cut him".

It's just...poorly thought out arguments.

You must be new here. Welcome to CP! Hope you enjoy your stay!

Not to beat a dead horse, buuuuut.

Damien Williams had 4 catches for 29 yards and 1 TD in Super Bowl 54. Two (maybe three?) of those catches were critical in the game (extending drives and scoring the go ahead touchdown). CEH doesn't need to deliver 100 yard games, but be able to deliver as a receiver in critical opportunities.

It absolutely should be a concern that in this offense CEH has matched DWill's SB54 production as a receiver in only 3 career games.

I'm not asking Reid to run him more, I'm asking Clyde to do better when he does

Reid used to use backs in the passing game better than anyone, and that was one of Clydes supposed strengths coming out... yet he shows up here, and rarely gets a look

I'm just flat out not buying all this revisionist rose colored glasses business, CEH hasn't looked the same since the hip injury

Not hating on the guy, but he just hasn't

In 2019 Williams had 111 rushes 498 yards and 4.5 ypc. 35% (175 yards) of his total yards came on 1.8% (2/91 yards, 84 yards) of his carries. Take out just 2 carries and he had 2.96 ypc. He was absolute trash that regular season.

His 4.5 ypc "counts", but it was the most inflated ypc ever. To act like it's normal for a guy to have 2 of his 111 carries account for 175 of his 498 yards, is ignorant.

I've learned their worst is about the same as Clyde's average.

Putting him firmly in the third tier of runners in this league.

All I'm saying is the notion he won't end up as a 4 YPC back is not based on reality. He's getting worse, not better.

Sure, but he also shouldn't be criticized for having that big play ability. We likely lose the Vikings game without him and there's a chance we drop that end of the year game against the Chargers without him, too.

On CEH. I don't mind if he never breaks an 80 yard run. I just want him to at least produce as a receiver like Damien did.

Ah.

I guess you garnered that from the fact this his YPC is up this year over last. Logical conclusion for sure.

Small sample size.

I think he got it from separating CEHs first 2 games from this season in which he averaged 3.3 YPC and his last 2.5 until he got injured where he averaged 5.7 YPC.

ok, but you can't throw out the big plays. If you did that, Barry Sanders isn't a hall of famer.

This cherry picking of stats is ridiculous. Those plays happened, he took them the distance, and they absolutely count.

some runs get stuffed. Some go for a couple yards. If those count, so do the long ones.

I agree. Then factor in how often do the Chiefs really lineup in a above average run formation. Like putting the QB under center 2 TE's or fullback ...Like 0. you can not tell me the formation does not effect the run game. You can cannot expect Derrick Henry numbers.

Chiefs worst runs come from under-center formations.

What’s the pass/run split under center?


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Darrel - 28 carries, 3.6 YPC
Clyde - 21 carries, 3.3 YPC
Gore - 5 carries, 3.2 YPC

Mahomes - 52 called passes (12 QB scrambles)

Total - 52 called passes, 54 called runs

That's strange. We have the best interior in the league and we cannot run under C. :spock:

It's because the play is telegraphed. We don't run outside because our backs are so fuggin slow.

Chiefs are rushing for less than 4YPC since CEH went out, enough said.

The problem with CEH is that those who were upset with him being drafted at #31, are still upset and trying to justify themselves because he's not the second coming of Marshall Faulk. He's a solid, if unspectacular runner who has been underused in the passing game. His return will definitely help this offense as it does not appear like teams respect Williams or Gore.

I hope he can come back this week. He'll gash the Raiders.

They don't respect CEH, and his 14 yard highlights either

You’re crowning this guy’s ass waaaaay too early.

This is the same shit I had to do with Daurice Fountain. Everybody else is either bad or has been around too long and people are desperate for fresh new and exciting, so they cling to mediocrity like Derrick Gore if they so much as flash just a tiny bit.

Maybe Gore is our best back. Maybe fountain really was our 2nd best receiver. None of that shit ****ing matters if they don’t get their name called, and that’s where people need to chill the **** out.

How many carries did Gore get last week? Did he get any at all when Darrell Williams was buttsexing all of his carries for one yard in the second half?

Ya’ll got waaay too excited if you think this much that he’s shown is proof of anything yet. The Chiefs through the years have had some truly putrid RBs have big games. Let’s wait until Gore has even one of those games before we consider putting him in Frank Moreau territory.

Until then, he may as well be Jackie Battle

Teams don't fear/respect CEH more than Williams, probably Gore either.

In fact, i think Williams is showing a hard running style that can get an extra few yards. That's not something we really see from CEH.

Gore has looked pretty good in his limited time as well.

Against the Packers;

Williams played 35 snaps: 19 carries/70 yards, 3.6avg and 3 rec/7 yards
Gore played 10 snaps: 3 carries/13 yards, 4.3avg and 1 rec/6 yards

You could go and take out the longest run in each season of Jamaal Charles career and he goes from 5.4 ypc to 5.1 ypc. Do that to Damien Williams 2019 season and he goes from 4.5 ypc to 3.7 ypc.

Williams rushes that year broke down like this

(18%) 20 rushes went for -6 to 0 yards
(43%) 48 rushes went for 1 to 3 yards
(26%) 29 rushes went for 4 to 6 yards
(9%) 10 rushes went for 7 to 10 yards
(2%) 2 rushes went for 11 to 15 yards
(0%) 0 rushes went for 16 to 83 yards
(2%) 2 rushes went for 84 to 91 yards

So 61% of his rushes went for -6 to 3 yards. That's horrible.

Let's do another exercise to show just how shit he was. We will take away his 2 long runs, but also we will take away the bad ones. All 12 of his playa that went for -1 yard or less. That brings him to 358 yards on 97 carries which comes out to 3.7 ypc.

Sometimes cherry picking stats can actually show you a more clear picture. I took away his 2 best runs and 12 of his worst runs and it took him from 4.5 ypc to 3.7 ypc. That year the 4.5 ypc was good for 20th out of 45 qualified RBs and the 3.7 ypc drops him to 39th out of 45.

Now let's do it with his 2 best and 2 worst runs being removed. 107 carries for 334 yards and 3.1 ypc. Which is pretty well horrendous. So yeah I'm cherry picking, but anyway you slice it his 2019 regular season was an absolute mirage.

He does however get a pass due to his post season and Superbowl performance. I just like to discuss these things.

CEH is 10x the RB that Darrel Williams is. Darrel Williams is slow as dog shit. He's had 123 combined carries between last year and this year and his longest runs are 12 and 13 yards. So far this year

(68%) 57 out of 84 of his carries have went for 4 or less yards.(54%) 45 of his 84 carries were for 3 yards or less.

That means he's only picking up 5+ yards on 32% of his runs

This is with the best run blocking line we've had since Vermeil and teams are doing everything in their power to allow us to run.

CEH on the other hand has 65 carries

(40%) 26 have been for 3 yards or less
(58%) 38 have been for 4 yards or less

So 42% of his runs have went for 5+ yards.

CEH has been more productive and then when you look at the run D of the teams that each got the majority of carries it looks even better for CEH

CEH

Browns 3rd in rush yards allowed
Baltimore 5th in rush yards allowed
LA Chargers 32nd in rush yards allowed and CEH gashed em
PHI 20th in rush yards allowed
Buffalo 4th in rush yards allowed, got hurt

Williams

I'll give him PHI because he had 10 carries

PHI 20th
WAS 11th
NYG 22nd
GB 16th

I'm no fan of CEH. I didn't like a 1st round RB and he just doesn't look very good, but Williams is just bad. He's the worst RB that we have had in decades and done absolutely nothing to earn any playing time besides perform fellatio on Andy or something like that. I'm not sure why Andy gets infatuated with JAGs.

I'm unsure why you would think any team would fear/respect Darrel Williams non talented ass. However, you are really dumb, so that's probably it.

No, no,no. You really can't, and no it doesn't give you a clearer picture about anything at all because all of this ignores context that's entirely relevant such as surrounding cast, opponent, and situational football. This is why I get really irritated when people want to take a RB's ypc as some sort of be-all-end-all stat. That doesn't tell anywhere near the whole story on the individual's talent level.

You can have an entirely successful 2.0 yard run for a first down... You can have a failure with a 7 yard run on 3rd and 8. In 2020, the offensive line was so bad for most of the season that nobody was going to have much success running the ball, I don't care who was back there.

RB's are a little harder to evaluate because their down-to-down performance is so dependent on multiple other players, coaches, offensive tendencies, quality of opponent- as well as each situation. YPC is only a small part of the equation. Maybe some equation like QBR that would factor in down and distance, first downs gained, yards after contact and four minute offense when you're really just trying to burn the clock and everyone in the stadium knows you're running every play, not really trying to gain max yardage.

If anything, no running play is 'schemed' to go for a long TD. That takes a defensive breakdown and/or a remarkable individual effort. So if ANYTHING, you absolutely should NEVER throw that out, because if a player is solely responsible for ANY running play, their speed and/or elusiveness in the open field would be more responsible for that play than any 5.0 yard sweep.

They have not consistently attempted to lineup under center. Some of the problem is with the retirement of Sherman they no longer have a very good lead back to play.

The worst runs come from under center because everyone in the stadium knows we're about to run the ball.

It's not a good thing for us to do, as we might as well just tell the defense what's coming before the snap.

Hey stop. People here dont like the truth about Damien.

There were three critical plays not made by runningbacks on Sunday that probably get made by CEH.

The 3rd and 2 pass to McKinnon where he got isolated 1v1 against a CB. If he makes the CB miss, he goes for 25 yards (the playcall was good - there was NOBODY behind him). Even if he squares his shoulders and gets low, he plows forward for 5 yards and a first. Instead McKinnon got his feet knocked out from under him and went straight down. CEH is shifty - I'm not sure he gets the clean miss for 25 but he absolutely gets down and drives forward for a 1st down at about the 50 yard line.

The 3rd and 1 run from Gore was just AWFUL. They had an easy 1st down there if he just follows his pulling G (Thuney). Instead he bounced left, into the teeth of the defense and the extra man that opened up by Thuney's pull. Stuffed at about the 50, punt.

And the throw to Williams near the goal-line. I was floored he didn't get that angle but he's just soooooo slooooooow. That was a walk-in TD for a genuine starting caliber back. CEH gets that one easy because he's up to speed pretty quickly. Williams, OTOH, just spun his wheels, lost the angle and was brought down. After the subsequent false start we had to kick a field goal.

That's 4 points and 2 first downs at mid-field, all attributable to a different 'alternative' to CEH and all plays that I'm fairly certain CEH makes.

CEH isn't an elite runningback but he's not a lousy one. And our alternatives are, frankly, pretty lousy.

The Chiefs shouldn't have drafted CEH where they did but they still need him.

so is he the bellcow this week?