OSU's talent is an excuse to lose on the road to them. Not at home in an arena they've only lost once in 6 years in (especially when you have a lead with a few minutes left). They've got to be better/tougher than that.

How is Elijah still playing the whole game? I blame Self for not taking him out let alone him being a starter. Elijah cost KU the game single handedly, I laughed when he lost the ball on the last play, it was the exclamation point on his pathetic performance.

Cudo's to the cowboys they played at great game in enemy territory.

This is Self's worst team at KU I think. Its a wonder they were ranked at number two in the nation.

Nonsense. This is a better team than they had last year and that team went to the NC finals. It's probably somewhere near the middle of his 10 teams.

:spock:

HA!

Cute.

I disagree.

Sorry I'm not drinking the KU homer koolaid. If they are better then last year's team, they should have no problem making the final eight in the tournament.
I bet they stumble fall before that.

That is a terrible way to judge which team is better.

Do you think last year's team was better than the 2010 team (Sherron Collins, Morris Twins, Aldrich and Henry)?

Actually, "KU homer koolaid" would be falsely believing that a 19-2 NC contender is "Self's worst team at KU." You either can't remember much past this year or don't have a clue what you're talking about because not even Self is that good.

Self blasted his team in the post game presser. Awesome. We need this.

He probably does. So many people put so much stock into winning that string of games. I'd argue, though, that the 2010 team was Self's second best over his last 10 years. The 2007, 2011, 2012, and 2013 teams fall somewhere just after that.

Well...this is embarrassing ...

I think 2010 was better team overall with a deep bench.

LMAO

I never felt better about our chances of getting a national championship than I did with that 2010 team. I never take KU winning for granted and I never say stupid shit that CoMo, Vanilla Thunder and BWillie like to say, but man... in 2010 I was sure thinking like that to myself. That was such a good, good team.

Well, as you recall, they lost in the 2nd round. So using the same logic, this team could be better than last years team without your stupid condition of getting to the EE. Agreed?

They were incredible. Beat teams down at home all year and went on the road and got huge wins against great teams in KSU and Baylor. If that Iranian guy didn't hit that shot, I think they end up winning at all. And I'm rarely that confident about anybody's chances in that crapshoot tournament, but they had a good shot.

Well they lost because of poor guard play and horrible perimeter defense.

Some OkieSt turd went off today....and that was the difference in the game. Credit to them, for some ****ing stupid reason Self couldn't plan anything that would contain him.

They needed this though.....they needed to lose AT HOME where it hurts the most because they're not supposed to lose at home. They've been playing like absolute dogshit for the past month or so, but they've been able to get by, wake up the last few minutes of the game to pull out the win. Didn't happen today and IMO that's a good thing, even though they lost. Rather have it be now and at home than in March against someone that has no business being on the same court w/ them.

Kansas' poor PG play and perimeter defense is a MAJOR problem. Get that shit fixed Billy Boy

Of the current ranked 25 college teams KU has beaten Ohio State (11) Mich. State (13) and K-State (18).
Doesn't seem like they have played against real competition much IMO.

Or do you disagree with that?

I don't understand what any of this has to do with your original statement. Please quit saying stupid things. Or don't. Whatever.

EJ is 12 of 47 in his last 4 games

with 3.8 turnovers per game

The whole entire bracket just fell apart that year.

Who is this Fairplay turd?

The gameplan on Okie State is that they don't shoot 3's that much, they rely on their athleticism to try to get to the rim. So accordingly KU was going under screens where Brown surprisingly was stopping to shoot...and hit at an incredible rate. It was a gamble by Okie State that paid off for them. You'll notice that Brown had 20 in the first half and only 8 in the second half, so Self did adjust and we got back out front, but it's like they just quit after being in the lead. It was pretty sad to watch. Hopefully a fire gets lit.

Ku lost to Michigan state imo

Doesn't mean anything come tournament time. Florida in 07 only beat like one top 25 team that year and they won the title. All about matchups and who's hot.

They lost to MichSt btw.

To be fair, I can't stand both of you.

You've got to be ****ing kidding.

Maybe you should clean the dirt out of your eyes and see that I wrote "with a few exceptions". Which is pure truth.

Well that sucked. I didn't watch the game, have it on the DVR but I have no desire to watch it. Just looking at the box score you can tell that EJ sucked a big one. As he goes this team goes.

A lot of chicken little in this thread the past couple of hours...

OMG we have one conference loss.

The positive is they lost the only way they lose...lack of focus and a team just jacks up 3s, uncontested or not. That's the only way they lose. It doesn't happen often but it happened today. It was for the best. We'll be fine

Yes but if EJ has the flu/doesn't play we probably win by 20.

:thumb:

Lol Self was flat out cruel in his presser. Among other things he said they would've been better off if EJ was sitting next to him on the bench.

My bad, sorry to them credit. Emphasizes my point actually.

You have yet to make a cogent point here. By no reasonable definition of the term could this team ever be described as Self's worst.

This one of Self's best teams IMO. They got cocky. They're kids. It happens.

Better now than in the tournament.

Self's worst KU squad would still be in 1st place in this league...

ISU just beat Baylor.... If you're going to lose today I don't think we could have had much better outcomes in the other conference games that matter in the Big 12 title race. It keeps most of the conference sans KSU still two games or more back.

2004-2005 team was easily Self's worst.

I won't mention the numerous times other teams they played in their schedule thus far were outplayed and scored, only for the Jayhawks to come back in the final minutes to win. To me dominant great teams don't allow this to happen consistently throughout the year.

However I will let the season, including tournament play judge that.

res ipsa loquitur

I agree and it is. This league is awful no question.

No.

This is Laz.

He's ****ing awful. Our own version of petegz; always bitching about something.

KU will be fine. It's only 1 loss in conference, not the end of the world.

THEY'RE 19-2....IM SO SO SCURRED ABOUT THE REST OF DA YEAR. THEY CANT BE LOSIN LIKE 10 PERCENT OF THERRRE GAMES!!

And Okie State flat out brought it today. They played harder, they hit their shots, and hit their FT's down the stretch. It sucks they had to lose at home; but I'm not concerned about it. If they give the same sort of shit effort and EJ plays like dog dick on Wednesday, I might get concerned.

Now Kansas faces the conference juggernaut TCU.... 0-8 in conference. Kansas coming off a loss. I almost feel sorry for them.


Almost.

LMAO

Maybe it won't be torture to watch like the Texas Tech and West Virginia games were now, but I'm not getting my hopes up on that front. TCU is the 333rd slowest paced team in the nation (out of 347). Hopefully KU won't be bored to death by them (which seems to be their main and perhaps only strategy) and can bring some intensity to the court for a full 40 minutes.

Hey ... if you're too inbred stupid to know when something's not right, to each his own.

I don't. KU really hasn't blown anybody out on the road this season. This to me looks like another TTU game where we win but you come away underwhelmed. TCU is going to limit our possessions by milking the clock and forcing us to play in the halfcourt where we look IMO very average.

KU got out hustled; it happens

Not really a big deal though
Should still have no problem securing a one seed for the tournament

Was bound to happen.

Elijah in a tough spot. Playing completely out of position and it's tough to say he might need to be benched in favor of Tharpe.

He makes great plays but way too erratic this season. Self has some thinking to do.

Obviously Self needs to go. Clean house.

This isn't one of Self's best teams.

Self's always had a good PG. There is no PG on this team that's worth starting. EJ is trying to make due but he's more of a spot up shooter than he is a ball handler.

Aaron Miles
Russell Robinson
Sherron Collins
Tyshawn Taylor (more of a combo guard but he could handle the ball - even though he was too erratic at times, he could also penetrate to the basket, something that's just not a strength of EJ)

This is an average Self team. Withey is just a monster defender and McLemore is the nastiest mofo we've had at KU in quite some time. Still a team that has as good a chance as any to win a NC this year.

Good point about TT. Tyshawn is a slashing combo guard. Hes no more of a pg than EJ. Hes just a better player. EJ gets the assists...similar or less TOs than TT. Difference is hes just not very good. Thr hes not a pg thing is just making excuses.

So, Naadir as the PG next year?

Who plays the 2 guard next year? Selden?

B-MAC :D

I wish.

You and I both.

I hope Frankamp is smooth enough to take the PG role at some point next year. I like the way Naadir has been playing lately, but I think he would be much better off the bench.

Ive heard Frankamp is a sleeper to play the point, he's more of a scorer but can still get to the lane on his own.

But I think its Tharpe's to lose - Self will always go with a junior over a freshman, especially at a position as important as PG. He stuck with TT through all his mistakes, and Tharpe could be a beast if he can figure things out.

I feel the same way.

I'm not sure Tharpe will ever have beast mode, if you will.
His defense has improved, as has his shooting. I feel the same way about Tharpe that I did with TT - right now. A wow move one trip down the court, with a total head scratching move next trip.

Also I would imagine like most freshman -- Connor will struggle defensively.

Self's teams ordered by KenPom Pythagorean ratings:

2008: .9859
2007: .9755
2010: .9683
2011: .9539
2012: .9485
2005: .9468
2013: .9467 (FYI, it was at about .9540 before yesterday's bad home loss)
2006: .9448
2004: .9342
2009: .9333

Calling 2013 an average Self team is quite accurate. Amazing that the "worst" team he had by this metric ended up winning the B12 in a conference with Blake Griffin and was still one of the top 10 teams in the nation.

He's going to have to.

I'm not sure but that we wouldn't be better by having Nadir be the pg full time and bringing Elijah of the bench to play the 2 when we go small.

I just don't think Tharpe is anywhere close to ready for that kind of responsibility.

He probably isn't, but I think he has the better skillset to become that guy.

Something I was thinking about while getting stomed last night - take out 2009 when we lost 5 starters from the championship team (and still won the Big 12 and made the sweet 16) - out of the (other) last 4 years, we have twice (2010, 2011) been the overall #1 seed and favorite to win it all, and lost before the final four; the other two years (2008, 2012) we were overlooked as a championship threat, and ended up with two championship appearances with one national title.

I'd like them to go to Tharpe as the starter for two reasons. One, Elijah is really struggling and I would like to see if having him come off the bench might get him back on the right track and take some pressure off him, and two... we're losing a lot after this year and it would be nice to have a guy like Tharpe get more minutes and be ready to take over next year. It could benefit us for not only this year but for next as well.

I don't know what everyone is worried about. We're still one of the handful of teams (as usual) that have a legitimate serious shot at a national title this year...again. It'll be the same next year.

I'm not too anxious about Frankamp. I know it is one half of one game, but he didn't do all that well when they played Scott City in Dodge. Scott has some really smart guards, but no one very physical. He only put up 9 points on just under a half of play against a very good but still 3A team.

He's got a ways to go yet. I'd imagine he's going to be like Reeds freshman year. He's probably a little quicker than reed at this point in his career but I don't think he's going to have much of an impact the first year.

I hope I'm wrong.

For those saying EJ is not a PG. Was TT not a PG either?
Last year Taylor 4.8 apg, 3.6 tpg
2013 EJ. 4.9 apg, 3.5 tpg

Personally I don't think either is a prototypical PG but Self runs the offense with more ball handling combo guards. The point remains though that TT was no more of a PG than EJ, he was just a better scorer, player and probably defender.

lol... you do understand he was one of the top scorers on an international team? Not sure what if anything you can get out of a quarter and a half vs Scott City. Depends on what your expectations are and how reasonable they are. Frankamp is a scorer, there's no shot he doesnt like. But he has looked to get his teammates more involved this year.

Well the thing I took from it is that he needs to get stronger. Physically the guards from Scott are not all that strong or fast. They're sound fundementally, but Frankamp will see a lot better athletes by a huge measure next year.

He plays on a national team. He plays against plenty of physical players internationally. He's gone up against the best guards in the country(high school wise and in the world.) While farm school basketball is a different breed for city guards.. He's seen it and them some. Only thing will be learning Self's system.

It's still concerning though that Scott city's guards could shut him down. Playing against good competition is one thing but if you put a good D-1 PG against Scott City's guards, they get thrashed. He's not there and it appears he's a ways away.

Since I have a nephew that plays at North and watched the game, Scott City in no way shut him down, I will assume since Heights held him to 5 points in the 1st qrt, they held him down? Then scored 32 after that point. Its ok to question if he is a PG, not sure he is either, but the kid has played against the best this country and others have to offer for the last 4 yrs. Ability isnt something you should question, especially since you have a qrt and a half worth of evidence.