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-   -   Chiefs Chiefs start making cuts. (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=275760)

DenverChief 09-01-2013 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 9932009)
Keeping bubble roster depth who can play special teams exceptionally well is a hell of a lot better than keeping bubble roster depth who are not great at special teams. Hell, there are plenty of special teams aces who are there only for special teams.

And the idea that all good teams treat their special teams players like "cuts of meat" is ridiculous. Plenty of good players and starters play special teams. Not everyone is good at special teams, and few are exceptional at it. Like I said, the move is fine if Cooper and Parker end up being true quality depth guys or nickel/dime guys. But last time we had this conversation, we carelessly traded away Javier Arenas and the backup guys like Agnew and Cox ended up being not only complete disasters, but also did nothing to help out in special teams.
LMAO:$2500:

chiefzilla1501 09-01-2013 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 9931977)
I'm sure toub was left out of the discussion, rolleyes
Posted via Mobile Device
When Toub looks at the entire roster and picks 2 guys to train the entire preseason to be your gunners, my guess is, he was disappointed to lose these guys. He's a special teams coach. I'm sure he's used to it, and I'm sure he's not going to pout about it. He's a pro and will take what he's given.

But people trying to undermine these guys as not being good special teams guys or claiming that this was a Toub decision are being ridiculous. They were very good at special teams, and I'm sure Toub would have loved to keep them. He wouldn't bring these guys in to be gunners if not.

DenverChief 09-01-2013 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 9932017)

But people trying to undermine these guys as not being good special teams guys or claiming that this was a Toub decision are being ridiculous. They were very good at special teams, and I'm sure Toub would have loved to keep them. He wouldn't bring these guys in to be gunners if not.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could get special teams players who were good at doing something other than special teams? The players released could barely make it on the field exceptt to recklessly run down the field and throw their bodies at return men....a position that doesn't require a lot of skill...sorry they are gone

Red Gorilla 09-01-2013 05:33 PM
It concerns me that they cut or traded several good special teams guys (Brown, Diles, and Jones for example). I hope they don't screw up the good special teams thing we had going. We have cut a bunch of guys and added like seven (?) new players today.

chiefzilla1501 09-01-2013 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverChief (Post 9932031)
Wouldn't it be nice if we could get special teams players who were good at doing something other than special teams? The players released could barely make it on the field exceptt to recklessly run down the field and throw their bodies at return men....a position that doesn't require a lot of skill...sorry they are gone
Wouldn't it be nice if you actually had any concept of what special teams does, and actually gave them some credit for it? It requires skill to be a gunner, and plenty of teams have players who are purely gunners.

And like I said, I'm not pushing for Copper, who was exceptional in special teams. I think the idea that a guy like Ron Parker, who was cut 5 times, is going to be that much better than Brown at CB + special teams in total value is silly, just as it was absolutely insane to trade Javier Arenas and replace him with Agnew and Cox. I always give these things a chance. But if Cox is anything short of exceptional at nickel, or at least a quality depth corner, then this is a terrible move. IMO.

Brock 09-01-2013 05:37 PM
Toub is probably the best st coach in the league. Pretty sure he had his say.

DenverChief 09-01-2013 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 9932038)
It requires skill to be a gunner, and plenty of teams have players who are purely gunners.
Do tell what skill(s) a "gunner" must be taught to be good at their profession?

SAUTO 09-01-2013 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 9932017)
When Toub looks at the entire roster and picks 2 guys to train the entire preseason to be your gunners, my guess is, he was disappointed to lose these guys. He's a special teams coach. I'm sure he's used to it, and I'm sure he's not going to pout about it. He's a pro and will take what he's given.

But people trying to undermine these guys as not being good special teams guys or claiming that this was a Toub decision are being ridiculous. They were very good at special teams, and I'm sure Toub would have loved to keep them. He wouldn't bring these guys in to be gunners if not.
He didn't bring in anyone to be gunners. He took the shit that was there. You are assuming he doesn't think the new guys could be better
Posted via Mobile Device

SAUTO 09-01-2013 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock (Post 9932042)
Toub is probably the best st coach in the league. Pretty sure he had his say.
No ****ing way. He hand picked those guys out of everyone in the whole wide world to be his special project gunners
Posted via Mobile Device

Red Gorilla 09-01-2013 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverChief (Post 9932047)
Do tell what skill(s) a "gunner" must be taught to be good at their profession?
They are small fast guys who have to be able to beat double team blocks like a defensive lineman.

They have to be taught a lot. It's a hard job.

SAUTO 09-01-2013 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverChief (Post 9932047)
Do tell what skill(s) a "gunner" must be taught to be good at their profession?
Run. Fast if possible. Then throw your body at something that's moving
Posted via Mobile Device

DenverChief 09-01-2013 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Gorilla (Post 9932053)
They are small fast guys who have to be able to shed blocks like a defensive end.

They have to be taught a lot.
I didn't know speed was a teachable skill? Shed blocks - wow that is epic - anything else or is shedding blocks the main requirement?

DenverChief 09-01-2013 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 9932054)
Run. Fast if possible. Then throw your body at something that's moving
Posted via Mobile Device
LMAO

Red Gorilla 09-01-2013 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverChief (Post 9932057)
I didn't know speed was a teachable skill? Shed blocks - wow that is epic - anything else or is shedding blocks the main requirement?
Double team blocks

Most small guys can't do it well.

Laugh it up. I am telling it like it is.

chiefzilla1501 09-01-2013 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 9932048)
He didn't bring in anyone to be gunners. He took the shit that was there. You are assuming he doesn't think the new guys could be better
Posted via Mobile Device
Like I said, I'll see how it plays out. None of these guys were special teams aces anywhere else. I'm pretty sure these guys weren't brought in for special teams. And of course I know Wylie and brown weren't brought in by toub. Again, he looked at the roster and decided these two guys were his best special teams guys. I don't know how anyone can dispute that. It sure looks like these were cuts made that had little to do with special teams value. Again, argue their value elsewhere all you want or if ST aces deserve a spot , but admit these guys were good at special teams.


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