I think the Raiders had alot of their starters in still but does CEH make that run? Highly doubtful. He just hasn't shown he has that ability so far in the NFL.

I'd have done exactly what they did with Tyreek.

Kelce is a unicorn. I don't think he's ever actually been paid what he is worth.

Bringing in Brown Jr. and paying him elite LT money for average LT pay are two different things. Yes, I would have brought in Orlando Brown. I would NOT be working to pay him top 5 at his position, when he isn't a top 15 player.

Joe Thuney would have been - as I believe it was for Veach - a mandate from the owner. Up to me, absolutely not do I ever want to pay top dollar for a guard. Draft guys, extend them before they are in the last year of their deal, or trade them away.

I am all for giving RoJo a shot. He has game breaking ability just don't let him pass protect for Mahomes :D

Not a top 15 LT?

Yeah, I don't agree with that.

You're talking top five draft picks earning market setting contracts. I'm talking about retaining good players. The Bills have drafted an RB in the top 4 rounds in 3 of the last 4 drafts. No reason we can't do more at RB. A top 5-10 RB shouldn't break the bank if we landed one

This is absurd. Orlando Brown is easily a top 15 LT.

It seems players want the one year prove it deals more thee days, I'd rather do more just to possibly squeeze more value out but I like it just fine.

Especially for a RB.

I can see the "not top 5" argument. That's fine.

But not in the best 15 LT's? I dont' see 14 better.

The Chiefs could have had Barry Sanders the last 2 seasons and it wouldn't have mattered. Fact is, the Chiefs have been a pass-first team, and Mahomes is a down field passer.

Little checkdowns. Not many run plays. Previously had a shitty run blocking Line, built for pass protection.

CEH and any scrub on this offense COULD potentially have a great numbers year, but it's really up to Reid/Bienemy and Mahomes to make it happen. We've seen success from a scrub like Gore, and we saw some beastmode from McKinnon.... but then the Chiefs offense goes away from those plays.

Personally I think this offense is going to mature this year and start mixing in the RB more considering the way defenses have adapted to our downfield attack. I hope I am right.

Agreed.

Kareem Hunt says hello.

Having an upgrade at RB would definitely make a difference in this offense. Fact is, CEH isn't that good and neither are the other RBs we have so it's been holding this offense back.

But yes Reid teams are generally always pass first, second, with running plays never being a major focus but to act like RB is a position that doesn't matter in this offense is taking it too far...

With the salary cap jumping, overpaying today is only temporary

I'm fine with Thuney, because at the time we had absolutely nothing else on the Oline. And I mean nothing. Yeah its pretty easy to look back now with Creed and Smith being studs and say we didn't need to pay him the money, but that is not the reality that we were living in.

The good news is this. You have Thuney under contract for 4 more years. And we can move on from him pretty easily after 2023, which we may want to do because it will be time to pay Humphries and Smith.

Yep 100%. With that being said here is a thought exercise for anyone, if we still had KH or comparable RB do teams still change up their defense to play 2 high on us?

As for Thuney, him and Brown are the only guys we will be paying top dollar on the OL.

Absolutely no issue with giving Mahomes the best OL in the league for the next few years.

I don't see 17 that are worse. :shrug:

definitely. Have to protect our half -billion dollar investment

Awful take.

Both moves were absolutely solid. Love them. However, Brown simply does not have the physical skills to deal with a speed rush. He can't get there. Consistently was beat by it.

Once we started chipping, he was terrific. But, if you're going to get the kind of money he wants, I don't think you should have quite as glaring of a weakness.

maybe he gets better, but I don't see how that happens. For my eyes, it was simply a lack of lateral quickness I saw from the very beginning that never improved.

It makes me want to pull my hair out how little they've valued RB lately, especially with all the additions to the OL. I love Pat but name the greatest QB to do it without a decent running back. Brady may be 1

I'm gonna be honest, you'd be like... the worst GM ever lol

It's no different than saying "I don't see 14 better."

Like... do we want to act like we can go through 32 left tackles in the league and rank them in any objective way? That's silly.

The reality is that there are a certain number of guys who are elite at their position. the rest are in the wash. Do we think Brown is elite at his position? Because that is binary. You are or you're not. I don't care if you're the 9th best LT or the 32nd. If you aren't elite, it is detrimental to the team to pay you elite money.

So, yeah, me saying "top 15" is misleading, as it implies there is an actual numerical order to how good a player is. It's not really quantifiable.

I like him as a player, I don't love him.

Some of that was\is on Pat though for dropping 20 yds back. I believe they both started jelling later in the season and got a good rhythm going between them. OBJ only gave up 4 sacks all season with most of them in the first part of it.

lol maybe. But doubtful. Everyone shits on teams that trade away stars when it happens. Then they suck their dicks when they have amazing drafts.

The top 8 RBs AAV range from $12m-16m.

We were able to get great production out of Damien Williams for $2.5m/year and McKinnon for $1m/year.

If the option is Kamara at $15m/year or a stable of Damien Williams and Jerick Mckinnons for a total of $5m/year, I think I'd go with the scrubs.

I think, like anything in life, there's a good balance.

I don't prefer to trade away picks and then have to sign guys to mega-extensions ala Orlando Brown Jr and Frank Clark, but they have their place.

I don't prefer to have our two highest paid offensive guys besides the QB being a LG and TE but Thuney helped anchor the complete OL rebuild in one offseason and Kelce's contract vs production has paid dividends.

It sounds to me like our team would basically consist of Pat, Frank Clark, Chris Jones and a bunch of Daniel Sorenson level players if you were in charge lol if that's your philosophy then you need to ace literally every draft to keep replacing guys. Truth is, you'll need to open up your pocketbook a bit to keep some of them, even the ones with low positional value. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

There's what, 3 elite LT's in football? If that's what you're looking for, fine. Gonna have to either trade a bunch for one, trade way up in the draft to get one (they go in the top 5) or pay in FA (they were going to with Williams).

As you're stumbling around trying to say here, Brown is probably good/great but not elite. Could he get to the elite level? I doubt it, but he's still pretty young so there's some development still there.

But LT is similar to QB in that if you don't have one, you do all you can to get one and once you get one you pay him and forget about it.

If you don't want to pay Brown, again, I'm fine with it. But getting one of his level or better is going to be very difficult. If you wanna get worse at LT but keep that powder dry and try to get by with a guy that's not as good as Brown but use that money elsewhere, that's another way to go.

Then you get into OL stability and such as it's more about the whole than it's parts so it's not the worst idea. But again, you're talking about the guy protecting your most prized possession. So I doubt they plan on cobbling something together there.

We got great production out of Mckinnon?

I'm all for churning free agents through. But you selling yourself short relying on bottom barrel free agents. For a franchise with such rich RB history I would expect fans to expect better

In limited playing time? Yes. Absolutely.

He averaged over 5 YPC and 8 YPR in limited time in the regular season.

When he was thrust into a more prominent role in the postseason, he did well too. He averaged over 100 yards from scrimmage in 3 postseason games. In two of the three games, he averaged over 5 YPC and in all three games he averaged over 10 YPR. That's pretty baller, honestly.

If CEH played that well I wouldn't have an issue with him.

I'm not interested in paying out a top 5 AAV RB contract. I said top 5-10 would probably be doable. Mckinnon is the example of a great value last year. Me personally I would be hunting for values like that while also looking for the guy at RB in the draft. If he earns top 5 contract after 4 years fine...let him walk find another...my point is we should be taking more shots at RB rather than settling for the bargain bin....it's really a disservice to Pat

He has the added albatross of having been drafted ahead of Tee Higgins.

I'm just here to remind people that Mike Cloud was a second-round pick who averaged 3.26 YPC in his four seasons with the Chiefs. He was the true definition of "3 yards and a cloud of dust."

CEH averaged 4.4 and 4.3 YPC in his first two seasons. I'm hoping he'll outperform those numbers in the next two years at a relatively low cost. If he doesn't impress Veach, the Chiefs will refuse to exercise the fifth-year option and move on to another low-cost option. We're paying CEH less than $11 million for his first four years.

Higgins is a tough one. Shenault or Claypool would probably have been better picks as well.

I think CEH will always be married to the RBs from that class, though. Early returns make CEH over Jonathon Taylor a really tough pill to swallow, but even Swift, Akers, Dobbins, etc. would have been better picks.

Hey, I can understand your point of view. I just disagree is all. I really don't think RB is very important and I think the resources we've put toward the position is actually pretty good (aside from CEH).

The strength of this team lies in the pass with Mahomes and Reid. That likely will never change as long as Reid is the head coach. I'd much prefer to spend those 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders on WRs, OL, pass rusher, CB, etc.

Those positions, if you hit, can be expected to be productive players for the team 5-10 years from the time they're drafted. Even great RBs, that is a tall order. These days, even a good RB is underperforming based on his contract by the time he's on his first extension.

Mike Cloud was drafted in 1999 so technically you can count him toward my criteria, but he really doesn't match the spirit of the discussion!

Look on the bright side. He'll only be married to them for like two more years - most of them won't even be starters anymore, because the attrition is so awful.

One thing I totally agree with O.City and others is not to pay big money for RB's. Look at Ezekiel Elliott, the dude looks washed and Dallas is on the hook for $18 million this year and $17 million next year. Damn he has a dead money cap charge of $30 million this year.

https://overthecap.com/player/ezekiel-elliott/4717/

I don't even think it's Reid’s style as much as wanting to tailor the offense to what Pat did in college. You have to evolve at some point though.... what would that look like?

We shouldn't betting setting the market at any position besides QB. There's a sweet spot though

This is lowkey an unpopular opinion, but I actually think Zeke Elliott's contract has been one of the better market-setting contracts for RBs in recent times. He is definitely not as good as he was when he first came in the league, but he has developed into an incredible blocker on 3rd down. Obviously it's not ideal but his contract vs production is much better than Leveon Bell with the Jets, CMC with the Panthers, etc.

Even when we had Alex Smith, Reid was still leaning heavily on the pass.

It's like Reid evolved long before the league caught on. Reid consistently fields some of the better offenses in the NFL.

I remember when everyone was aghast at the Eagles throwing it fifty times in a game. Like... it was unthinkable.

I can't imagine anyone wanting to take the ball out of Mahomes hands though. I mean, sure at some point run it a few times.

But statistically, I'd think we want him making decisions more than not.

Yeah that is probably an unpopular opinion. I bet Dallas would love to get out of that contract if they could. Doesn't look like they will be able to until 2024 and by then he will definitely be done.

Yep, he was throwing the ball 70/30 back in the early-mid 2000s when RBs were king lol Reid is a guru

This is ultimately the argument against spending resources on RB. Giving our RBs more carries takes the ball out of Mahomes' hands and actually does our opponents a favor.

Outside of that second half of the AFCCG against the Bengals (****, he was so, so bad), I trust Patrick with the ball in his hands.

Oh, it was and is not a good contract. Just saying, it's the least bad of all those market-setters. The Jets had no business investing in a RB with so many holes and as amazing as CMC was, the Panthers have gotten basically nothing from him since he signed that extension.

Man, I have dominated this thread today.

Thanks for the good conversations and listening to me talk, betches!

It could only help Mahomes.

I was looking at Reid's offenses in his history. His offenses on average are near the middle of the league in rush attempts. But last year we were 20th in attempts, 16th in yards but 7th in yards per attmept........How? Better yet why wouldn't you run it more

I've seen Mahomes have bad games or halfs where a solid running game would have definitely benefitted him.

Obvious example is his last game against the Bengals
He was awful in the 2nd half.

He's human, Chiefs cannot expect him to ball out every single game.

Help him by taking the ball out of his hands?

The Chiefs are at their best when Mahomes is dealing and throwing the ball around.

Live with the bad if you want the good. He needs to be better, sure.

But any time he hands it off, the defense celebrates. I'd not do that.

We are at our best with Pat slinging it. Until we're not. We shouldnt be too proud to hand the ball off, epecially if its working. The run game and pass game goes hand in hand. Pat had his best season when he had the best running back he's ever had.

Hunt
Ware
West

was a stable, we have nothing close to that right now

He also had a healthy Watkins, Tyreek and Kelce in their prime and he threw it alot.

It's not 1994.

Yes, if he is having a bad or average day.

Yes he did have those guys. That's what a complete roster looks like. No s***t it isn't 1994. My point stands, he had his best statistical season with that group of RBs

I blame Patrick Mahomes for making this shitty pick instead of Bart Vagich.


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So his best season occurred when he had 2 UDFA RB's and 7 games from a 3rd rounder.

You're making a compelling argument for paying RBs and handing hte ball off

I was a Dobbins guy personally. Turns out neither can stay healthy.

Swift would've been perfect for Reids offense

As for CEH, it is my fervent wish that he spends the majority of games on the bench

Live by the sword die by the sword.

Then you have the losing 2021 AFCC game without adjustments.

WIth this O-Line it was stupid to stray from it when Patrick was struggling

Beyond silly. He’s still the best back on this roster.

The CEH hate is just ridiculous at this point.

CEH may be the "best" on the roster, but he's a JAG.

Here's to him NEVER becoming a GM! :harumph:

Chief Fans are so ****ing stupid. Once they've decided they don't like someone, it's over.

Unfortunately he probably is the best back still on the roster. Not that that's saying much. It's just him, Darrel Williams, and a couple rookies lol

Another issue Clyde is going to face early in the season is that we have cut a lot of the trashcans on the squad. Now that we don't have Sorenson, Neimann, Demarcus Robinson to shit on, CEH is going to be higher on everyone's shit list.

Who is left to hate? Frank Clark is easily the king of shit mountain, but other than that it's maybe whoever wins the RT spot..?

What the hell has Dobbins done that Clyde hasn’t?

Uhhh.. passed the eye test lol

Did we resign Darrel?

I’d rather have JK Simmons at RB than JK Dobbins

Shit, man. It looks like we didn't.

Sorry, I hardly pay attention to the bottom half of the roster in the offseason until training camp starts.

It's basically CEH, RoJo and a bunch of rookies. Chiefs.com has Derrick Gore still on the roster as well so this RB room is actual garbage.

He's actually jacked af these days lol

On the real, though, he averaged 6 YPC his rookie season and had 9 TDs. That is extremely impressive.

I won't hold the injury against him. If he had played for us, he may have never gotten hurt.

It was a legit question lol. It seems like a very chiefs thing to do. I fully expected him back and thought i just missed it.

Especially if Naing is said RT.

If you guys are ever interested in looking at the best tracked depth charts in the NFL, just use Ourlads.com The NFL.com and team specific websites totally suck. Ourlads keeps everything updated each day.

Yep, my prediction for Shit List rankings this upcoming season will be:

1. Frank Clark
2. Deandre Baker if he sees any meaningful snaps
3. CEH
4. Hardman
5. Niang or whoever wins the RT spot

I actually think the OL as a unit will do well this season so whoever is plugged in at RT actually won't catch as much shit as they did these last couple seasons. It'll still likely be the weakest spot on our line, though.

It's certainly average to below average.

We have a pretty damn good line so things should be fine.

Agreed. I'm on record that I don't mind bargain bin shopping for RBs anyway. We just need a guy who won't fumble and takes what's blocked up. If we can find a guy who is dangerous as a pass catcher, it'll definitely add another element to our offense, but I don't want to overspend for that guy.

RoJo is a bum but he's actually a good pickup. He's got potential as a reclamation project.

Take a look at his pre-draft NFL comp:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/ronald...9-5f67cfbf7e05

(It's Jamaal Charles in case you don't want to look)

I can't handle a second dose of morning wood.

:banghead:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BwSts2s4ba4" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hey, I didn’t say I’d rather have JK Rowling at RB!

Some of you need to kind of wake up on where CEH actually ranks.



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NFL 2022 RB rankings <a href="https://t.co/rNsxcKq80W">pic.twitter.com/rNsxcKq80W</a></p>&mdash; Joel Moran (@joelvmoran) <a href="https://twitter.com/joelvmoran/status/1528497529125470208?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 22, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

We'll have to see how the RB room shakes out of course, but I'm not convinced he's the best guy in that room right now

He's slow, lacks vision, and you have to wonder why he is almost never used in the pass game... which was seemingly one of his strengths coming out

Its now or never for that kid, he has 5 MANSTERS in front of him now

He can start tearing shit up or get bent

To wit...