****2016 Chiefs Training Camp Thread****
 

History

On special teams, yeah.

Offensively it wasn't a whole lot iirc.

https://youtu.be/-CCx94wh6SA

I know statistically it doesn't look like he contributed much, but for just being a gadget player/returner, DAT had a pretty nice contribution year 1 when you watch those highlights.

Hill will be getting all the gadget plays and PR's now (maybe KR's too), but unlike DAT he can actually contribute as a WR, so I'd expect Hill's #'s to be significantly better. I could easily see 400-500 total yards on offense with a couple returns for TD's.

We're going to use that guy a lot. There's a reason he's the first WR off the bench after our top 3. Guys like Paylor that have been at camp say they were using him everywhere, and he clearly has a role on offense already. To say he won't contribute this year is ****ing reeruned.

Do you remember how much Conley contributed his rookie season?

I said it about Conley last year, I'll say it about Hill this year. Rookies WRs have an extremely tall hill to climb in this offense.

Oh sure, if you're talking about whether or not he can get in a few gains on trick plays and packages designed especially for him, I'm sure that's possible. But if you're talking about him just going out there in the slot and being a part of the flow of this offense, that's not going to happen.

There's just too damn much to learn.

Antonio Brown rookie year: 167 yards, 0 TD
Brandin Cooks rookie year: 550 yards, 3 TD
DeSean Jackson rookie year: 912 yards, 2 TD


Probably somewhere in the middle.

That's fair, but I do expect some explosive plays at WR here and there, just because of his speed/quickness, and Reid's ability to create mismatches for him.

I'm not saying the guys going to be a huge contributor or anything, but I think it's silly to say he won't contribute much relative to his role.

We don't really know if he can be a wr yet. He's had a good camp apparently, so we can speculate.

If he has a year similar to Thomas rookie year, I'd consider it a success.

He's gonna be down the pecking order in terms of targets and touches as well. Maclin, kelce, Charles ware etc are gonna get theirs.

The problem with dat is you had to gadget him the ball. He didn't get much within the flow of the offense. Hopefully, as the year wears on, hill does.

And don't try to sell me Heineken

Unlike Hill, both Conley and DAT were injured in training camp and couldn't participate much, if it all. Conley definitely had an ankle sprain, which IIRC, was DAT's injury, too. Both came into the season around Week 6 and weren't able to contribute much.

As long as he's healthy, I'd expect Hill's role to grow over the course of the season and for him to contribute more than just 200 yards and 2 TD's.

From the camp clips and what I've seen in the preseason, I'm confident in saying that Hill is a much better WR than DAT. He's better rout runner, more aggressive and better hands catching the ball, and he's faster/quicker.

I'd say throw DAT and Conley's rookie seasons together, and that's about what I expect out of Hill.

I didn't say that.


Yes. He contributed very little on offense in general, even less so outside of the force-fed gadget plays and screens.


Thank you.

People should temper expectations for Hill.

But unlike when DAT was a rookie, this offense can be prolific without gadget plays. We have Maclin now. Kelce's only improving. Smith has more and more freedom (and confidence). The gadget plays that got DAT space/yards aren't necessarily a good thing for this offense anymore. We have enough weapons that Reid's primary motivation should be to put Smith is situations to choose how best to use them.

And unlike Conley as a rookie, Hill would have to deal with....Conley. Conley got on the field a fair amount as the season progressed because he needed to move past Avant and Wilson. Well Wilson's still here (and as much as it pains you, Hill hasn't passed him) and now Conley's here to fight for snaps/targets as well.

If Hill's getting a lot of targets, something's gone awry, IMO. Either Reid's decided to impose himself on the offense again or Conley and/or Maclin have been injured.

I think he's better than thomas, but again, I don't know how many touches he gets to get there.

There's quite a bit of talent on offense.

That's a good point. I remember Conley's late start, but I forgot that DAT also had one.

The Hill hype was obviously out of control, but I think people are letting his lack of production in the preseason fooling them into thinking he's a fluke. Even in the few oppurtunities he's had you can see the talent and natural receiver ability. That out of bounds catch from Foles in the back of the endzone is a perfect example.

I'm not expecting Hill to rack up 800 yards of offense in 2016 but I expect him to contribute more than DAT's 156 or Conley's 200.

I also expect his contributions to be greater over the second half of the season versus the first, as he'll need to gain Smith's trust while the co-offensive coordinators learn how to use him best against opposing defenses.

Maclin, Conley and Streater are better options at this point, as is Kelce (I'm leaving out Charles because I have no idea how far he's progressed and/or if/when he returns to previous form).

If he's getting touches in the offense, that's a different story though.

I don't have a problem manufacturing a touch or two for him, but he needs to be getting the ball in space that he's created thru separation and route running.

The way I see it, Thomas has been more impressive in the games than Hill. However it sounds like Hill has looked very good in practice. I think people are selling DAT a bit short as he definitely has some skills. Gonna be interesting to see how this plays out.

Cooks lost 6 and a half games due to a broken finger that year. Just sayin'.

DAT's issue is can he stay healthy throughout a season? He hasn't so far.

Yup, he's certainly not as stout as Hill.

Conley missed some camp time last year and still played 369 snaps. I can't see a way we keep a talent like Hill on the sideline when he's got elite speed and is actually knows how to play WR unlike DMC or DAT.

He won't play that much on offense, but I expect a lot of jet sweep, screen and decoy snaps for him. Just enough to add a new wrinkle to the offense.

I'd rather give those jet sweeps a d screens to charles.

You guys are getting sidetracked. Hill would be taking Wilsons reps and catches which won't be a large number anyway.

Taking Wilsons job still makes him 4th in catches behind Maclin, Kelcey, and hopefully Conley.

And it presumes that Streater doesn't take Wilson's snaps as well.

They're not going to pay Streater those per game bonuses just to make him the 5th WR. If he's on the team, he's going to get more snaps than Hill.

Right now, Hill's the 5th WR behind Maclin, Conley, Streater and Wilson, IMO. He's going to have a damn hard time making an impact as part of the normal flow of the offense.

I'd rather consign about 3/4 of those jet sweeps and screens to the scrap heap.

This team has too many weapons to be cute for the sake of being cute.

Or put Charles and Hill in the backfield and have both run to the flat on Alex's left and right with Maclin/Conley going vertical and Kelce running in the middle of the field.

Very tough matchup for LB's to defend.

Is Jah Reid a ****ing Asshole? Lambs seemed to think so.


What you didn’t see in Rams-Chiefs ... http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2016/8...source=twitter …

Photo published for The Rams called Jah Reid a "f—-in a—hole"
The Rams called Jah Reid a "f—-in a—hole"
They don’t like Jah Reid.
arrowheadpride.com

I missed this while Green and his sidekick were verbally sucking off Eric Stonestreet for a whole quarter. Such shitty coverage this preseason.

Well, with more weapons on the field it could go either way.

Using Charles in the jet motion is gonna move backers a step or two, which in turn gives your lineman better angles and more creases for ware/west.

Most of that stuff is all a packaged play though. I like those.

I hate the damn package plays. They fail far more often than they don't.

The offense really opened up last year after Charles went down and Reid got away from most of those package plays (it worked even better after DAT went down).

Reid does a huge disservice to the flow of the offense when he starts ramming those things down Smith's throat.

Agreed.

I hate the gadget and trick plays.

I was always a spread guy so I enjoy seeing them.

Let the defense dictate where the numbers are

Some of the package plays suck, but some of Andy's wrinkles have been used to perfection and have been pretty fun to watch.

This spread concept worked well both times with the fake in the 2nd one.

<a href="https://imgflip.com/gif/19hwkd"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/19hwkd.gif" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a>

<a href="https://imgflip.com/gif/19hwoi"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/19hwoi.gif" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a>

We missed huge chunks of the game where they were interviewing different people. I want to hear what's going on on the field, not listen to canned GM speak about how much better off the team is now than they were 3 years ago. If he wants to tell us about Houston or a new contract, a free agent signing etc. I'm all ears. Otherwise tell us about the game. No one even mentioned the Nick Foles trip/fumble except Dorsey saying "Oh, Chiefs ball"

It would be nice for the announcers to actual talk about what is happening on the field.

"Look at that nice block by Morse- he opened a big hole for Ware on that first down."

"Great penetration by Poe-shedding two blockers and shutting down that running play.

They showed Stonestreet for over ten minutes-so I have no idea what was even happening in the game. I guess we got a sack fumble?

Coverage has been horrible. I am really starting to dislike Green calling the games. Yes we know "Reps" are valuable Trent-you don't have to say "Reps" fifty ****ing times. How about telling us Who is getting the reps and making plays?? :rolleyes:

I know this offense has a lot of playmakers, but Andy Reid is going to get Tyreek Hill on the field as much as he can and Hill is going to eat corners alive in man coverage with all the help going towards Maclin and Kelce.

Kids gonna eat.

Now you know why network producers earn their money.

it's the preseason... nobody gives a shit, especially the announcers.

I got the Rams homer announcers. They actually aren't as bad as they used to be (Dickerson wasn't bad at all and would even talk about the Chiefs at times) but the others were terrible.

Speaking of announcers, I watch the Seahawks/Vikings game Thursday night and Brock Huard was still running down Arrowhead and the attendance during the first game. Let it go, Brock. No one cares.

Wing T offense is simple to learn and might be in the Chief's best interest.

I put them on mute after the first two minutes.

Andrew Siciliano is unlistenable.

Adding Jamaal's explosiveness will be big for this offense. I'm really looking forward to him running behind the best OL he's had since being drafted.

When he said Ware didn't get the first because his knee was down, so Faulk had to tell him he hadn't been touched. LMAO

Then why isn't Hill doing it in the preseason?

If Andy Reid is 'hiding' Hill just to try to surprise San Diego then he's an idiot. If Hill is really going to be a large part of the offense then he needs to get live game reps with the 1's.

This

I wouldn't get too excited yet. He's not playing this weekend, which certainly means he's not playing next weekend, so he may not get many plays in against the Chargers.

He looked pretty tentative to me in the limited video I've seen recently.

Somebody tweeted something similar to Jacobs about the video, and he said Charles was fine and looked good that day. Wasn't concerned at all. FWIW

I'm not worried about him because he's been through this song and dance. He'll be more confident quicker. He'll trust his knee.

Terez A. Paylor ✔ @TerezPaylor
Coach Andy Reid said Mauga, Millard, C. West, Jamaal, Tamba and Bray will not play Sat vs. Chicago

I don't see how Mauga and Bray make this team? They add nothing.

Reid said Gaines will probably play Saturday.

Great news.

Quicker Gaines plays the quicker he gains confidence in that knee.

Mauga is not getting cut.

The guy was already the slowest player in NFL history besides the Fridge-and that was before his strained vagina injury.

Right now he's still a better option than any of the youngsters playing behind him.

There's just as good of a chance that Mauga ends up on the PUP or IR as he does being cut.

The guy hasn't participated in TC or preseason and he was nothing special the past two seasons.

I think it's fair to say that his season is in doubt, especially if March makes any strides this week.

Yup.

I'd like for him to be displaced by younger, more athletic players.

Thus far they haven't done it.

BJ Kissel

Of #Chiefs QB Alex Smith's 12 completions this preseason, 7 have resulted in gains of 11 yards or more, including 5 plays of 15 yds or more.

Wow against two top 10 defenses to boot.

At least the younger guys have practiced and played. Mauga has been on the bench.

You can't make the club -sitting in the tub. Herm

The Chiefs made the mistake of not putting March next to DJ during the offseason because if they had, he might be ready to start at this point.

He'll be playing catch up the next few weeks. All we can hope is that he improves.

You know exactly what Mauga is.

Mauga opened the door with his injury but so far nobody appears to have pushed past him.

I'd give March more reps there before I slam that door shut

He's got at least a half on Saturday to take that job. He needs to make some plays and stay disciplined in the run game.

He'll get 'em.

But he needs to make the most of them because the job isn't going to be gifted to him. Mauga's expensive enough that you cut him if you have an obvious replacement but not so expensive that you cut him and hope someone fills the void.

If March doesn't force Dorsey's hand, Mauga's making this team and starting for the foreseeable future.

IMO, Mauga's so mediocre that if March fails to win the job, there's a possibility of grabbing someone off the waiver wire to fill the hole and still cut Mauga.

It seems like forever that the Chiefs have needed an average guy next to DJ.

<header class="article-header no-featured-display"> Film warning: Chiefs still lack Mike ILB
by Ryan Tracy <time datetime="2016-08-25 6:02 am">8 hours ago</time> Follow @RyanTracyNFL

</header> <section class="article-content multipage "> http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/b...nd-raiders.jpg

There’s a hole in the Chiefs defensive bucket, dear Liza. And this year, more than recent years, that could be a significant problem.

Teams in the AFC West will be more focused on their run games in 2016, especially if its a glaring weakness for the Kansas City defense. Both Oakland and Denver hope and plan on running the ball better and more Often. For Denver, it may the focus of the offense due to the quarterback situation they face.

Derrick Johnson is an elite Pro Bowl linebacker, but he can’t man the middle alone.

Two weeks into the experiment at inside linebacker, the spot next to Derrick Johnson is a clear target to be exploited. Several young players have had significant chances to bolster that ILB spot, in wake of Josh Mauga’s injury, but have been unsuccessful. The team has to hope one of them puts it all together in the remaining eight quarters of this preseason.

We’ll take a look at the film below. We went in depth on the topic today on the Locked on Chiefs podcast as well. Here’s the show:

Is there a Mike ILB on this Chiefs roster?

This is the big question. Derrick Johnson plays most like the classic WIL in the 3-4 base defense. He uses his athleticism to run the field and make plays. Johnson is particularly adept at slicing and slipping past blocks to make plays in the run game.


The linebacker opposite him, in a traditional Mike role, generally needs to be able to take on blocks and allow the Will to make the play as we see here: Thomas Davis Takes on block, Luke Kuechly makes play

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...homasDavis.gif


In modern hybrid-front defenses, the traditional roles can be blurred by lining up multiple linebackers who bring aspects of both traditional roles; attacking as well as taking on blocks. Seattle’s duo of Bobby Wagner and K.J. Wright are the prime example of all-around linebackers: Flow, engage, shed and tackle

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...right_edge.gif


None of the Chiefs young inside linebackers offers the team a complete solution. The two prime options to fill in for or replacing Mauga, Ramik Wilson and Justin March, play with good athleticism with speed.
Unfortunately, neither has been able to master confrontations with blockers at the line of scrimmage. Both have made plays, but have struggled against starting-caliber offensive linemen.


http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...ch-Blocked.gif
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...sonBlocked.gif


For those of you who may feel the team just needs Josh Mauga to return, that is not the answer either. Here is a familiar look at Mauga from 2015 against the Raiders.


http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o..._Mauga2015.gif

Next: There are some positives...


http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/b...ining-camp.jpg

Positives

Both March and Wilson look to be solid in filling in Derrick Johnson’s role. Both had some athletic plays when they attacked. Against L.A. Wilson was able to apply some pressure and get behind the line of scrimmage. D.J. Alexander has been a standout special teams player, but flashed some take on skills versus the Rams, showing the most run-stopping potential (below with black neck roll).


That’s good, but not enough. Despite being the fastest linebacker according to Derrick Johnson, Alexander’s game remains too one-dimensional to be an option to start at ILB. If he can continue to progress, that could change in the future.


http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...ilson_WILB.gif
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...takesblock.gif
Don’t Rule it out

Its possible that the Chiefs’ staff prefers athletic linebackers and is willing to play defense without a run stopping ILB. I consider that a huge mistake and one that could bite them in 2016. Defending the run will likely be more important this season than any year since the Reid/Dorsey regime took over. That could make picking up an experienced linebacker a priority as final roster cuts come down on September 3rd.

Back during his time in Kansas City, Gunther Cunningham said “take away the run and you will take away their will”. This team needs to find a way to get that done.

What do you think, Addicts?

http://arrowheadaddict.com/2016/08/2...-justin-march/



</section> <footer class="article-footer"> </footer>

I don't see alot of difference in what March did vs what he's praising davis for doing. He didn't get off the block, but that's not really the point.

Is there an IlB on some team we could trade for? March didn't bulk up and take the position like I had hoped. This a big year for this team. I wouldn't mind seeing a trade or two to shore up positions. (ILB, Pass Rusher)

http://www.chiefs.com/media-center/v...1-bfcdf6f5a0e5

Great to have him back!!

Dude, they just moved him to the Mike position in the last week.

You can't expect miracles.

Mauga is exactly that average guy you're asking for.

I'm still not sure how he became this syrup slow plodder in everyone's eyes. As far as ILB's go, he's not that slow. I think we're just spoiled by DJ. He is responsible in run support and he's adequate in space.

He's about as average as you'll find.

Maybe a younger average guy with some upside, I suppose.

I'm pretty disappointed with March, Wilson and Alexander's progress in Year 2, especially after the glowing camp reports, which I will never trust again.

Having Berry back will improve the run defense.

You and me both.

As soon as I heard about Mauga's injury I was certain someone was going to take that job by the throat. Mauga's not a guy that should ultimately be difficult to displace.

But I'll be damned if so far nobody's managed to do it. And after the reports on the secondary and Hill and Parker and Bray and the ILBs....I'm convinced that it was ALL bullshit at this point.

Let's get this show on the road. Even Andy doesn't give a shit about the pre-season right now and I'm not convinced we've received a shred of relevant information over the last month. Let's go play ball...

this this this

so bad!

60 yard interceptions are pretty nice.
Posted via Mobile Device

Is it your expectation that an inside LBer should be housing 70 yard TDs?

Because that's a pretty unreasonable expectation.

Again, the guy isn't playing DJ's role here; he's Joe Mays. He's Mike Vrable. He's Bart Scott.

http://www.newyorkjets.com/videos/vi...f-12aa0bcb57c2

I don't think holding him to the standard of guys that don't play the same role as him is remotely fair. As far as ILBs go, he's no worse than an average Ted-type backer.

This is the play that I remember people on here talking about how slow he is. It could have been even before this. He has a 10 yard start and still gets caught from behind.

Scott had slowed down a lot by then, yes. But he was never a burner and he got caught by a glorified T who ran him down in 20 yards after being flat-footed. I could've outrun Bart Scott there.

My point is that Scott is an example of a truly truly slow player at that point in his career and there's a big difference between what he did and what happened to Mauga.

Mauga got tracked down 60+ yards later by a guy that runs a 4.5 - shit happens. He's not a track star and he's damn sure not conditioned for 70 yard bursts. But he's a plenty capable athlete for an interior linebacker.

Again, you'd like to upgrade on him, but he's competent. He's probably the least athletic option we have, sure, but he's also the only one that's demonstrated the ability to start for good defense and not be a liability (at least not when he's in the proper role alongside DJ rather than in lieu of him).

I didn't know that because I haven't payed much attention to that. I've only watched games and just started to read articles. Didn't feel like following TC so much this season. So that makes sense then. Thanks

The douche on 810 says the Royals are more popular than the Chiefs.

True?


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No worries